Trinity

Jews adhere to Old Testment and the concept of God is ' Oneness', which is categorically stated in their 'Shama' ( or the first commandment of faith)

The idea of trinity started from New Testement and it is from St Paul (orginally a Jew, Saul) started Pauline version of Christianity.

Here in UK we still have 'Unitarian Church', who profess the 'unity' of God and not the trinity. Also the orthodox church explains it in different way when compared to Roman Catholics.

Now since Roman Catholic are greator in number and also this idea became the offical creed of 'Christianised Roman Empire', this idea has become the dominant creed. 

Lot of Aristotelan logic and Platos theory are used to support the creed and also the way New Testements is interpretated.

Regards

Fuhad

Cypriot Boy wrote: Now if we look at the old testament there are many clues about the trinity. It states in Genesis that God uses the plural form of 'WE' when he created the universe.

You just said many clues and yet we see only one such from the OT. Even this statement is based on assumptions and hypothesis. The very word "clue" is indication of how much my christian brothers are bent upon to stretch the fabric to suit their purpose. On the more, have you ever tried to find out the reason for this word 'WE' from people other than your clergies. We, the muslims, also find word "We" in many places where Allah is telling us something, but would that mean triune in divinity of god? No, not at all. One may understand that the use of plural pronouns for a singular person is quite frequently encountered in connection with grandness of an individual. e.g. the kings used word "WE" whenever they meant "I" in their conversations refering to themselves. Anyone considering the King as triune in nature would not be wise in his understanding. Then how can one assume triune nature of god just from clues like these? I hope you can provide some better example from OT and not just clues etc.

As for the NT, please look at the baptism of Jesus where the Holy spirit ascended upon him and God showed light. It is written in the N.T.

Its your interpretation with your specific mind set. From my perspective, as a muslim, I would say holy spirit could be an angel who brougth the message of God to Jesus. Isn't it a simple concept with simple meanings. How do you see this perspective to be wrong as compared with yours? Why to make three is to one and one is to three kind of confusion which you yourself don't understand it.

This for me, clearly shows how the Triune God works in harmony.

Also after Jesus resurrected and appeared to his disciples and especially to THOMAS where he didnt beleive the miracle , the word of god said go and baptise in the name of the father, Son and the Holy Spirit. Again Jesus knew he was not talking about THREE GODS because this is WRONG. INSHALLAH!

Probably you need to authenticate the source of your info before you start believing in them. How would anyone beleive in the anonymous sayings?

Maybe you havent read the Bible in its totality, otherwise you would never have stated that the oness of God only exists in the OLD TEST. but also in the latter,but you should because it provides the answers for me. Just as the Koran is the final revelation for Muslims, i beleive the Bible is the true word of God for all humanity. God bless

My dear brother, I don't have any doubts in the oneness of God. I think we can built on this commonality between us that can create much needed harmony amoung us. It is for this reason that I sometime suggest to my christian brothers to come to terms and lets pray togather to our one God, the God to whom Jesus also used to pray, that He may guide us to the right path. Amen.

You just said many clues and yet we see only one such from the OT. Even this statement is based on assumptions and hypothesis. The very word "clue" is indication of how much my christian brothers are bent upon to stretch the fabric to suit their purpose. On the more, have you ever tried to find out the reason for this word 'WE' from people other than your clergies. We, the muslims, also find word "We" in many places where Allah is telling us something, but would that mean triune in divinity of god? No, not at all. One may understand that the use of plural pronouns for a singular person is quite frequently encountered in connection with grandness of an individual. e.g. the kings used word "WE" whenever they meant "I" in their conversations refering to themselves. Anyone considering the King as triune in nature would not be wise in his understanding. Then how can one assume triune nature of god just from clues like these? I hope you can provide some better example from OT and not just clues etc.

I stated my response and from that you have written what you beleive about my religion. It doesnt work that way. I dont think you seem to understand, God adressed himself as WE. And also he said i am ONE. Finally for this section you said i assume. My points are direct from the bible itself and how god fulfilled its prophecies. And yes i agree because GOD IS ONE. God states about his spirit ( spirit of God) and his word ( the word of god) Now God, his word, and his spirit are all GOD because that is God. And we know that is god because anything that is NOT created has existed forever. And who is this?Only GOD (May we bless him) The bible teaches that God sent his word (jesus) whom was conceived by the HOLY SPIRIT. SO this miracle involved God in heaven, the Holy Spirit and the Word of god. The TRIUNE NATURE OF GOD all equal and perfect. This is what God teaches and this is what i beleive. This by your standards means 'assuming' no my freind.

Its your interpretation with your specific mind set. From my perspective, as a muslim, I would say holy spirit could be an angel who brougth the message of God to Jesus. Isn't it a simple concept with simple meanings. How do you see this perspective to be wrong as compared with yours? Why to make three is to one and one is to three kind of confusion which you yourself don't understand it.

To tell the truth you are no -one to say it is my interpretation and my specific mind set. God is my way and this is what he taught. And as a Christian i could say its your specific way of thinking that makes you say these things.. but i dont. I do not need to resort to those remarks. I know in Islam the Holy Spirit is an Angel. But Angels are created by god.. God's spirit is not. As i explained before i do not beleive in three Gods, just one God. The bible teaches this and so does God. I understand it perfectly my freind, i dont know where you got the sentence that i dont understand it. Refrain from using past conversations with other Christians with mine. I havent with you and dont need to.

With my explanation there is no requirement of harmony. Everyone is obedient to God therefore performs their duty. No one has to explain through big philosophical arguements to understand such a convoluted solution through Triune nature of God.

I have never said for me it is a big philosophical argument so dont use it for me. I t has no basis. And yes i agree everything is obedient to God. The bible teaches this. And i dont need a solution.

Probably you need to authenticate the source of your info before you start believing in them. How would anyone beleive in the anonymous sayings?

Ok sure.Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.(Mat. 19)

Just to note also i do not want anyone to beleive me.. no this is wrong. Only through faith in God can one beleive. I am just merely stating out what God teaches.

My dear brother, I don't have any doubts in the oneness of God. I think we can built on this commonality between us that can create much needed harmony amoung us. It is for this reason that I sometime suggest to my christian brothers to come to terms and lets pray togather to our one God, the God to whom Jesus also used to pray, that He may guide us to the right path. Amen.

I am really good freind with my Muslim freind born in England but from Pakistan. Just like me i am from another country but borm here. We discuss, i have been in his Mosque, he has been in my Church. But we do not beleive in the same God as both books contradict each other. You might say because the bible has been corrupted but the oldest manuscripts all state what a Christian beleives in. And finally yes Jesus did pray to God because he was human and had to show other sinners how to pray.Isnt the word of God about worshipping God only?

And to tell the truth i could debate all day and night. God gives me strength. Im sure you do too. But i do beleive one thing.. that deep down you think you are right and that deep down in my heart i think i am right. And we will all know that when we are before God we cant escape anything. So you will not beleive what i beleive and i will not beleive what you beleive but we can all respect each other. Ami

No my freind for Jesus taught the only way through God is through THE WORD OF GOD ( JESUS). Basically the Bible teaches that GOD IS NOT CREATED. The BIBLE teaches that God has a SPIRIT ( SPIRIT OF GOD) and also that God has his Word for us sinners. So...everything that is not created is God for he has no beginning and no end. So ...

GOD ( HIS WORD AND SPIRIT)= Not created,

Earth, UNIVERSE, TIME         = created so not GOD.

GOD in heaven sent the HOLY SPIRIT to give LIFE to the WORD OF GOD. Still ONE GOD which BIBLE HAS ALWAYS TAUGHT. Thus by worshipping Jesus is what God wanted because God's WORD is not CREATED but has always existed.