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robin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hammy07 Hammy07 wrote:

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Where does the Quran confirm that the Holy Scriptures were changed?

We have the original Torah and the original Gospel.  Actually there are more inconsistencies in the Quran that can not be explained.  GOD for sure is not inconsistant nor incapable.

Your heart is closed to the fulfilled prophecies- that is the only true way to prove if a book is from GOD.  Otherwise all you have are the words of a man, no witnesses, although Paul did have witnesses.

You are correct in believeing that GOD does not have a wife, sister, brother.

Jesus as a manifestation of GOD does in fact have the One True United GOD, as His GOD.

 

Remember though that Jesus was 100% man and 100% GOD 

 
No, Jesus was a philosopher and a political activist, and then he got killed. That's it.
 
 
No he was not, he was a pure theocrat
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honeto View Drop Down
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Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

Originally posted by Hammy07 Hammy07 wrote:

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Where does the Quran confirm that the Holy Scriptures were changed?

We have the original Torah and the original Gospel.  Actually there are more inconsistencies in the Quran that can not be explained.  GOD for sure is not inconsistant nor incapable.

Your heart is closed to the fulfilled prophecies- that is the only true way to prove if a book is from GOD.  Otherwise all you have are the words of a man, no witnesses, although Paul did have witnesses.

You are correct in believeing that GOD does not have a wife, sister, brother.

Jesus as a manifestation of GOD does in fact have the One True United GOD, as His GOD.

 

Remember though that Jesus was 100% man and 100% GOD 

 
No, Jesus was a philosopher and a political activist, and then he got killed. That's it.
 
 
No he was not, he was a pure theocrat
 
Robin,
what about Jesus' intention and claim according to the Bible, to be the king of the Jews:
 
Matthew 27:11 Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.
 
Matthew 27:37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
 
Intersting to note here that this was the charge against Jesus according to these verses.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 08 October 2008 at 6:11pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Mansoor_ali View Drop Down
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Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

The Qur'an says it accepts the �the Book,� the word  �Bible� means the book


 There is no reference to the Bible in the Quran whatsoever.  The Quran mentions the Taurat (Old Testament) and the Injil (New Testament).   The Taurat is the book given to prophet Moses. This the equivalent of the Torah/Pentateuch of the Jews and Christians, since much of it was not written by prophet Moses. And the Taurat is definitely not the Old Testament since the OT includes dozens of books attributed to other prophets before Jesus.  The Injil is translated as the Gospel revealed to prophet Jesus.   This is not the New Testament.

 The New Testament is a collection of  4 biographies of Christ, 27 epistles of St. Paul, and other books on the lives and adventures on the followers of Christ.  There is no record of a book revealed to Jesus. Perhaps the closest to it are the words of Jesus himself, which constitutes less than 10% of the NT.

 Visit Does Islam Endorse The Bible?

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Yes, the books of today-Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the very same Gospel used by early Christians up to present time.


 Today's Books and Gospels' authors of the Bible are UNKNOWN.  See the comments from the NIV Bible itself.Click here
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Mohammad realized that these books were the True GOSPEL of Jesus.
 
How did Muslims fall away from this Gospel and start calling it corrupt?  Mohammad never did!!  Is it in hadith?

Every Muslim should understand this- are they being lied to by imams?


 004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

 Here is explicit verse speaking of Bible corruption, the Quran states that if anyone believes that Jesus died and was crucified they then follow nothing but CONJECTURE which is corruption. Which book today tells us that Jesus died and was crucified? The Bible, so hence the Quran here does call the Bible corrupt. So it can't get anymore clear than that.

 Visit
Does Islam Endorse The Bible?

The problems with textual integrity in the Bible.

The many different and contradicting canons (bibles) that existed and still exist today!

Evidence proving that the previous Scriptures that existed among the Arabs in Medina weren't the same as Constantine's "Bible".

The real Bible: Who's got it?

How reliable is the New Testament?

The Original manuscript don't even exist according to the bible's own theologians!


 



 
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2008 at 2:56pm

Mathew, Mark, Luke and John were never questioned as GOD Holy Scripture. 

The original manuscripts were written on very fragile material so of course the first written one does not exist- but the very original GOD's WORD does exist in Jesus Christ for He was GOD's WORD made flesh.
 
002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
PICKTHAL: Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.
SHAKIR: Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
Is talking about this verse in the Bible:
 
Jeremiah 8
 8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
       for we have the law of the LORD,"
       when actually the lying pen of the scribes
       has handled it falsely?
 
How do they know it was handled falsely?  There were so many copies circulating people were quickly aware when a false copy shoed up.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 October 2008 at 2:59pm
004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
 
Jesus died a physical death but His soul lived!!    He then ressurected  and Mohammad is confirming that inded Jesus is sitting at the right hand of GOD.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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who differ therein are full of doubts -
Some Muslims think Jesus is dead, some think he never has died, they are confused as to when Jesus died, etc.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Mansoor_ali View Drop Down
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Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Mathew, Mark, Luke and John were never questioned as GOD Holy Scripture.

Just who were the real authors of the Bible? Today's Books and Gospels' authors of the Bible are UNKNOWN.  See the comments from the NIV Bible itself.

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

The original manuscripts were written on very fragile material so of course the first written one does not exist


 If the original manuscripts had been lost,then what makes you be so sure that everything into today's gospels is 100% accurate?

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

but the very original GOD's WORD does exist in Jesus Christ for He was GOD's WORD made flesh.


 And not a single gospel was written in his life time.Then what is authenticity of your gospels?

 �Not a single Gospel was written down at the time of Jesus, they were all written long after his earthly mission had come to an end� (Maurice Bucaille, The Bible, the Quran, and Science p. 127),
 
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:


 
002.079
YUSUFALI: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
PICKTHAL: Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.
SHAKIR: Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
Is talking about this verse in the Bible:


 This verse is referring to the children of Israel; the whole section starting from verse 25 onwards is about the children of Israel. So hence here we see a clear verse speaking of Bible corruption, some of the children of Israel wrote their own books and said it is from God. So basically this means they made copies and added their own ideas and desires and said this is from God, and when you do this over a long period of time the original book gets lost and is gone and that is what happened. So they wrote books with their own hands and claimed it is from God i.e. the Torah.
 
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:



 Jeremiah 8
 8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
       for we have the law of the LORD,"
       when actually the lying pen of the scribes
       has handled it falsely?
 
How do they know it was handled falsely?  There were so many copies circulating people were quickly aware when a false copy shoed up.


Jeremiah 8:8 proves Historical Corruption in the Bible - by John McCarthy.  Got detailed archeological evidence.

The Argument of Jeremiah 8:8 Still Standing!

Chapter 2: Christian Proof Texts (Jeremiah 8:8).

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Jesus died a physical death but His soul lived!!

 Where Quran says that?

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

He then ressurected  and Mohammad is confirming that inded Jesus is sitting at the right hand of GOD.

 Where Quran says that?Where Muhammad said that?

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Some Muslims think Jesus is dead, some think he never has died, they are confused as to when Jesus died, etc.

 Not a single muslim doubt that Jesus was died by crucifixion.

 Let me quote the verse with commentary by Maulana Maududi

 004.157
YUSUFALI: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow,*194 for of a surety they killed him not:-

*194. "Those who differed' refers to the Christians. The Christians have dozens of different versions, rather than one universally agreed view, regarding the crucifixion of the Messiah. This in itself is an eloquent testimony that the Christians were doubtful about the actual event. Some of them held the view that the one who was crucified was someone other than-Jesus and that Jesus himself in fact remained standing somewhere nearby, laughing at their folly. Others were of the opinion that the one who was crucified was certainly Jesus himself, but that he did not die on the cross and was still alive when brought down from it. Others asserted that though Jesus died on the cross, he later returned to life, met his disciples and conversed with them about ten times. Again, some believe that the human body of Jesus suffered death and was buried, while the spirit of godhead in him was taken up on high. Yet others believe that after his death the Messiah was resurrected physically and was subsequently taken up to heaven in physical form. Had the truth been fully known and well-established so many divergent views could not have gained currency.(Source)

 The Quran states that if anyone believes that Jesus died and was crucified they then follow nothing but CONJECTURE which is corruption. Which book today tells us that Jesus died and was crucified? The Bible, so hence the Quran here does call the Bible corrupt. So it can't get anymore clear than that.
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 October 2008 at 8:44am
LOL!!  You must read more then answering-chritianity sites!!
 
read this:
 
 
RIGOROUS TRANSCRIPTION OF OLD TESTAMENT
We can have confidence in the reliability of the Old Testament because
of the rigorous transcription methods employed. Before the discovery of
the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947, the oldest Old Testament manuscript found
dated around AD 900, approximately 1300 years after the completion of
the Old Testament in 400 BC. The Dead Sea Scrolls, however are dated
before the time of Christ (about 150 BC). The book of Isaiah found in
the Dead Sea Scrolls verifies the precision of the method used to
transcribe the Old Testament. The book of Isaiah from the Dead Sea
Scrolls is identical to today's standard Hebrew Bible in greater than
95% of the text. The 5% variation is due to slips of the pen and
variations in spelling.

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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