Free Will

AhmadJoyia wrote: Good thoughts!! However, just imagine if there is no god, then obviously speaking, there is no evil as well. Isn't it? Therefore, there is no concept of morality left out for being either good or bad without the concept of God. I can't be more expletive than this, at the moment, to make you better understand my point. Secondly, logic in religion must be made independant of the historical persuits among nations, though its a fallacy to assume that most of them were religous motivated. "Fear and guilt" are not the common denominators of all religions, not of Islam at least.

Sarcasm sucks... this is the action of a westerner

Bro, your example of Europe supports my view that Morality grew under the influence of religion; concept of One God or many gods is irrespective and so is its root wether unified kingdom or otherwise etc. The history of religion is replete with examples which can clearly defy your theory of evolution of religions.

Nevertheless, 'Ten commandments' are known as gift of guidance from the divine being, we call Him the God, for a pariticular society to live like humans and not as wild animals. One can imagine what the society would have been without them. The same goes to many other nations/societies who got similar divine gifts, later named as "religion".

Oh, I got two separate comments on my single post. Is there any mistake? First at "How about giving a realistic answer?  Instead of quoting me?" and then "Sarcasm sucks... this is the action of a westerner"

ketchup wrote: More to the point, can you answer my qestion?

So, what's your question? Let me guess. If it is this "Why should I believe in god?" Then, I think, I have already given the answer to brother Tim in one of my previous posts, though not directly. Here it is what I said on page 6. "...To say the least, this is not very correct statement, as far as Islam is concerned. According to Islamic beliefs, God created humans in a perfect shape without any concept of "original sin" attached to it. This world has been created as a test for him, an argument which goes against the concept of unchangeable "human nature". Otherwise, there is no requirement for the test. Isn't it? It this place where the concept of "free will" to pick and choose only through human intellect comes in. How can one justifyably assume to be answerable for his deeds, if God has not given him the intellect to distinguish between the right and wrong? No faith based argument would work here. Only the human intellect is being invoked. So, for those who can't, intellectually speaking, with their altruistic search with honesty to their inner self, find the faith of truth in God, I think, they don't have to worry about their fate in here after."

Kindly read closely to the last sentence of the underlined passage. If you are sincere in finding the answer to your question, then I would suggest that you read Quran. A book that we believe, is a verbatim word of God. I can't state as from where you start, because its not a book of history, nor it is in any choronlogical order. Its a book of faith for those who have sincere desire to find the answer for them to beleive in the existence of God. However, a tip from my personal experience, that whenever I needed a guidance, my earnest desire made me open that part of the book that provided me the guidance that I needed the most, through my own intellectual reasoning. One can call it luck, incedental or whatever, this is how I have experienced it. Systematic study of Quran is also done, but that is only once you believe in the God and on this book.

I hope I have provided you with sufficient reason for faith in God through the example of origins of morality. However, I you are interested in any kind of physical evidence or proof for the existance of God, then suffice is to ask a similar proof from you, for "non existance" of God. Absence of proof doesn't show anything. Isn't it? For us to understand, as people of faith in Islam, we see this riddle as to logically understand that since we are in a 'test', we must not expect  'cheating'? If obvious physical proofs are provided, then it hardly be called as a 'test'. Think about it.

AhmadJoyia wrote: Moreso, we know that obeidence to our Creator has given us to stand on the higher grounds of Morality than those who don't.

mmmm......

SO you think you have more of a right to say what morals are ? because you believe in (a) God and have (a) religion ?