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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Faith, Reason and Islam
    Posted: 17 June 2005 at 7:34pm

In the name of God, the merciful, compassionate, praise be to God the Lord of all that exist in all spheres of existence Ameen.

The famous philosopher Averroes once put it:

"Yet the Qur'an in its entirety is but a call to theoretical investigation and consideration and an admonition to these theoretical methods."

It is quite true that the Qur'an in its entirety offers continuous proofs of his existence through demonstration and cognition by symbolizing the macro and mirco levels of life. It is impossible as a Muslim to be called to Islam under the influence of faith, in addition to its extremes which would be beyond that. While reading the Qur'an one can see the various proofs of God's existence as well as divine providence in this physical realm through various demonstrations using physical symbols. For instance God mentions:

"Let man consider his nourishment. we poured the water abundantly; then, we split the earth wide open; then caused the grain to grow therein; together with vines of green vegetation; and olives and palm trees and gradens with dense trees and fruits and grass for your enjoyment and that of cattle. Qur'an 80: 24-33

Majority of these verse symbolize the artistry of God and how his continuous activity within the world is constant. However, we must understand that such verse do not imply any physical motion or physical activity. To say that God physical acts within this world would subject God to time and if we think of such then we must also consider the temporality of God which would thus lead us into a slippery slope.

Along with the argument of invention God also mentions the non-existence of deities besides himself, consider this:

"Were there in them both (heaven and earth) nother gods besides Allah, they would have surely been ruined."

We can also continue with:

Allah did not take to himself a child and there was never any god with him; or else each god would have carried off what he has created, and some of them would have risen against others."

"Say: 'If there were other gods with Him, as they say, then surely they would have sought access to the Lord of the Throne."

These verse imply that one substratum no direct action could result from one single deity if there existed other deities besides God. Even in regards with creation, no two entities can maintain a world (or city) if both having the same action. The result would be that such a world or city, would be chaos unless one remain inactive while the other remained active.

As we engaged in our goal in reaching God, God has informed Muslims of their duty and the law in which they must abide by. It is important to note the various signs in the Qur'an as what they are signs and symbols that must be understood through contemplation and meditation. To understand God cognitively, must be sough through serious understanding of the world around us. There is too many in the world quick to rush in and claim to understand God just because one can recite the Qur'an by heart. This is called memory not true understanding.

The true nature of God is unknown in this world, therefore man is only left with the essence of God's presence. What must we do now? The most important thing is to develope ones faith through reasoning. Islam is not an unjustified faith. It is very much logical and very much reasonable because prior to taking Shahada (decleration of faith) one must understand the premise of Islam before proclaiming by mouth and soul the belief of Islam and what it entails.

I firmly believe to reach the plane of intimacy with God one must be alone with God, and as my old friend Hamid puts it, "Isolation along with contemplation." What this means is that mankind cannot reach a spiritual plane through habitual motion such as prayer, Jummah, Ramadan. Because prior to engaging in these acts one must believe that these acts are justified and reasonable even if they are deemed good Islamically. It is not possible to perform such duties with sincerity if they are done habitually without understanding what they mean. What does it mean to give a piece of bread to one who is hungry? What does it symbolize? Do we give because we want to maintain the status of life on earth or do we do it for the pleasure of God?

We ask ourselves these questions because we truly want to know. God in his precious book states that we are created for the purpose to serve him. What does that mean? Does it relate to giving a man a piece of bread? Does it mean slavery? Is it vanity on God's part? To serve God is not bondage nor does it require any chains or formal contracts. What it means is to sustain what is good in this life and to find what is bad abhorent. God has given mankind the highest intellect which is his reason and through his reason has given him the faculties of understanding his particulars.

So as we go about life being committed to our duties we are ever cognizant of what our duties consist of and who we owe. God has mentioned that life is precious and that mankind is ungrateful because with such priviledges such as knowledge we forget who we owe our blessings to. therefore God has constantly asked us in the Qur'an to ever be mindful of him through our reason and through our faith.

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Dr Syed Alwi View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2005 at 7:46pm

Dear Israfil,

[Moderator Edited].rami.



Edited by rami
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2005 at 8:49pm

Allah have mercy on you Mr. Alwi as brother Rami puts it- you are definitely breaching fitnah by inventing certain concepts in which I nor any other Muslim have subscribed. First and foremost just because one seens God through nature does not mean that person subscribes to the theory of Creationism. In Islam we see that creation is a symbol of God's existence (or at least his essence). We also believe that God allows life forms to evolve hence, the development of skin tone from climate migration and so forth.

You also mentioned many other things which do not relate to the topic, but one thing you did say that I wil comment on is whether God needs our attention all the time. This is why you need to read Qur'an. God in the Qur'an says that he is absent of all wants. What does that mean to you? Does he not want us? Is he absent of wanting to love us?

What this means is that unlike humans who have desires and needs God is absent of those desires. However, he encourages us in light of knowing this to try to know him through continuous efforts to pray to him to tell him what we need and to uphold truth. God does not need creation in fact he has mentioned in the Qur'an that it is easy for him to take life away from earth. But God chooses to allow life to persist because of hope. God explains in the Qur'an that humans are not perfect but at least making an effort to be intimate with him is better than the one who tries to be perfect. Because perfection is soley an attribute God has and is not an attribute that we can maintain.

When you ask about others dying and going to hell while being non-Muslim I cannot justify anything because this is a question you have to ask God yourself. For all I know I maybe the one to go to hell even though I'm Muslim. We truly don't know that is why Muslims say Allahu Alim--or God knows.

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Dr Syed Alwi View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2005 at 8:56pm

Dear Israfil,

If only your views are part of accepted Islamic teachings - then its fine. But its NOT as the majority concensus of ulamas reject Evolution and most practicing Muslims subscribe to the notion that only Islam is the accepted religion. Apparently such a view comes from the Quran itself. So at this point - I am going to tell you that in trying to answer my questions -you have strayed from the majority views of Muslims. Contemporary Orthodox Islam have no answers for my questions.

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2005 at 8:58pm
Funny I never thought I did I thought I was aligned with Islamic teachings. I'm surprised that you say the Ulamas reject evolution when evolution is explained clearly in the Qur'an. What you argue here is a misunderstanding of Qur'an based upon the disagreements of scholars.
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Dr Syed Alwi View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2005 at 9:08pm
No - its NOT a disagreement of scholars. Its part of the Aqeedah. Adam was created in Heaven according to the ijma or concensus of Muslim scholars. And so on. Even Harun Yahya rejects evolutionary theory. He has 16 books whacking Evolution ! But like I said - maybe its time to change the concensus. A new ijtihad has to be made. Maybe you can persuade the ulamas to see the error of their ways.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2005 at 9:09pm
Hmmmmm I don't know what to make of this response
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MOCKBA View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 June 2005 at 9:42pm
The blind trying to lead the sighted.
MOCKBA
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