Lebanese National on death row in Saudi

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   Assalamalaikum

How is everyone here? I haven't been on this forum for a long while, but the news I heard today has stirred me to discuss this very important issue with some of the intellectuals here InshaAllah.

A Lebanese national Ali Hussain Sibat has according to the news in the media been sentenced to death because of his psychic predictions on Lebanese TV.  Sibat had been to Saudi for Umrah two years ago and was recognised by the religious police and was arrested after being made to confess.

My question firstly is how can the Saudi government arrest and hand out a death penalty to a citizen of another country?

Does this not pose a risk to all Muslims who visit the holy sites?

Secondly, what Sibat did or said may be wrong, but does it warrant the death penalty? Please let us have your views.

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Tasneem Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 28 April 2005 Status: Offline Points: 124	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tasneem Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Lebanese National on death row in Saudi Posted: 28 March 2010 at 4:38am
	Assalamalaikum How is everyone here? I haven't been on this forum for a long while, but the news I heard today has stirred me to discuss this very important issue with some of the intellectuals here InshaAllah. A Lebanese national Ali Hussain Sibat has according to the news in the media been sentenced to death because of his psychic predictions on Lebanese TV. Sibat had been to Saudi for Umrah two years ago and was recognised by the religious police and was arrested after being made to confess. My question firstly is how can the Saudi government arrest and hand out a death penalty to a citizen of another country? Does this not pose a risk to all Muslims who visit the holy sites? Secondly, what Sibat did or said may be wrong, but does it warrant the death penalty? Please let us have your views.

Emin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 24 October 2007 Status: Offline Points: 46	Post Options Post Reply Quote Emin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 March 2010 at 6:04pm
	Selam to you also! I am fine! I also did not be here some time! As regards issues; I can not tell to much about case, because a very little information come from Saudi Arabia. Only what we know is that: Ali Sibat's interrogators told him to write down what he did for a living, reassuring him that, if he did so, he would be allowed to go home after a few weeks. And than they presented this document as 'confession' . But in another hand we can talk generally; this is not fair trial. This can be seen from the fist view. Fact is that court proceedings in Saudi Arabia is fall far short of international standards for fair trial. Defendants are rarely allowed formal representation by a lawyer, and in many cases are not informed of the progress of legal proceedings against them. They may be convicted solely on the basis of confessions obtained under duress or deception. Also: Saudi authorities can not judge someone who is not their citizen. Lebanese government must seek that he must be returned to Lebanon. And it seams like that we are all in risk from Saudi police. Saudi government is set as that only in Saudi Arabia is Islam and that they know better than others what is wrong what is not. Also who can recognize just like that, that he deals with 'sorcery'?
	112:1 SAY: "He is the One God: 112:2 "God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being. 112:3 "He begets not, and neither is He begotten; 112:4 "and there is nothing that could be compared with Him

Tasneem Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 28 April 2005 Status: Offline Points: 124	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tasneem Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 March 2010 at 9:26pm
	Thankyou for your post Emin. I absolutely agree. I think Muslims should speak out against this atrocity. Yes, the Lebanese government should stand up against this heavy handedness.

Emin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 24 October 2007 Status: Offline Points: 46	Post Options Post Reply Quote Emin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 March 2010 at 4:26am
	I've heard that he is Shi'a! Do you think that this can also be one of reasons to set false procedure? Someone who has a different viewing angle should not be a reason for imputation! This is a fascist! Allah give us free will to choose, THIS IS GREATEST GIFT! Merciful Allah do not imposes us, and who they are that they put themselves in front of Allah and decide who is believer and who is not!? They justify them self we have Sharia.No matter what they have Sharia as law, but imputation is imputation, what so ever where they live. And real Sharia does not condemn private relationship between God and man. Edited by Emin - 29 March 2010 at 4:30am
	112:1 SAY: "He is the One God: 112:2 "God the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being. 112:3 "He begets not, and neither is He begotten; 112:4 "and there is nothing that could be compared with Him

Tasneem Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 28 April 2005 Status: Offline Points: 124	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tasneem Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 March 2010 at 7:06pm
	Whether he is Shia or Sunni or anyone else, I think it is wrong to impose their belief or their way of thinking on a person who merely went there to perform Umrah and who is not a citizen of their country. If they have anything against people who in their opinion do not conform to what they believe is unacceptable why permit them to enter the country at all? But having permitted him to enter and perform Umrah and then to impose such a penalty is gross injustice. It will be a great shame if Lebanon sits and does nothing about its own citizen.

abuayisha Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105	Post Options Post Reply Quote abuayisha Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 March 2010 at 12:09pm
	I am an American, and therefore with my American passport I can travel to most countries in the world, but does that mean I should? I really don�t understand how or why Mr. Sibat, who is known in the Middle East from his television program, would fill out a visa application to visit Saudi, knowing full well, or should have known, the risks involved. In Islam one can not claim faith and practice sorcery. Mr. Sibat�s case could be contrasted to an open homosexual, who professes faith in Islam, and has a satellite program where millions have seen his face. It would be insane for this individual to enter Saudi, and likewise for Mr. Sibat. I don�t think he put his profession on the visa application, which he later confessed to, and seeing that Saudi doesn�t have an open judiciary, we really have no idea what evidence the government has against Mr. Sibat concerning his activities at his hotel. It is possible he sought financial gain using his profession during pilgrimage season when very large numbers gather. Mr. Sibat may have fraudulently obtained a visa, and given his profession, should not have even been inside the precincts of Mecca, which is forbidden to non-Muslims. Saudi now feels it must make an example of such soothsayers entering its boarders and flaunting Saudi laws. Let us now hope the King of Saudi Arabia accepts Mr. Sibat�s repentance and pray his penitence is sincere.

Tasneem Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 28 April 2005 Status: Offline Points: 124	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tasneem Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2010 at 4:16am
	This response really surprises me for the following reasons: "I am an American, and therefore with my American passport I can travel to most countries in the world, but does that mean I should? " Why not? Don't you wish to see and appreciate Allah's creation? And don't you wish to fulfill the obligations which Allah has clearly commanded in the Qur'an? " I really don�t understand how or why Mr. Sibat, who is known in the Middle East from his television program, would fill out a visa application to visit Saudi, knowing full well, or should have known, the risks involved. In Islam one can not claim faith and practice sorcery. Mr. Sibat�s case could be contrasted to an open homosexual, who professes faith in Islam, and has a satellite program where millions have seen his face. It would be insane for this individual to enter Saudi, and likewise for Mr. Sibat." Did he practice "sorcery" in Saudi Arabia? Can a foreign government hold one responsible for his actions in his own country? Many of the practices of the Shia's for instance such as beating the chest with knives etc do not conform with the Islamic practices with the Sunnis or more so with the wahabbis, and some even go as far enough to exclude them from Islam (which no one has the right to), yet they are welcome to perform Haj and Umrahs, why so? "I don�t think he put his profession on the visa application, which he later confessed to, and seeing that Saudi doesn�t have an open judiciary, we really have no idea what evidence the government has against Mr. Sibat concerning his activities at his hotel. It is possible he sought financial gain using his profession during pilgrimage season when very large numbers gather. Mr. Sibat may have fraudulently obtained a visa, and given his profession, should not have even been inside the precincts of Mecca, which is forbidden to non-Muslims. " Is suspicion permitted in Islam? especially when someone is on death row? How easy it is for people to label others "non-Muslims"! When a person is performing his Fard (one of the pillars of Islam) in front of people is a clear indication he is a Muslim. Each one of us is going to be judged by Allah (SWT alone, and people calling others non-Muslims are answerbale to Allah (SWT) for their judgemental attitude. Making false/wrong assumptions that have not been in the news is unfair on your part. It is extremely unfair to put a person who is a foreigner to death based on his activities in his own country, especially when he went there for pilgrimage to which all Muslims are entitled. Saudi Arabia is not the gaurdian of each and every Muslims Islam or Imaan. Only Allah Is. Edited by Tasneem - 31 March 2010 at 4:25am

abuayisha Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105	Post Options Post Reply Quote abuayisha Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 March 2010 at 8:14am
	Tasneem, personally I have spent a great deal of time in Saudi, but my point was; why travel, just because you can, to a land where, knowingly, your safety may be jeopardized? Did he practice �sorcery� in Saudi Arabia? One can only speculate, and as I mentioned Saudi does not have an open court system where anyone can view evidence, however should we make excuses for an avowed soothsayer or those religious individuals who enjoin the good and forbid evil (Saudi Wutaween)? With respect to his visa application � I only assume the Saudi police checked this, and this is why they compelled him to later state his profession. I make no judgment about his faith, but it is clear in our religion sorcery is heresy.