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Are man really stronger then women?
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elijah-boy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 June 2010 at 11:21am
I started reading things about Islam lately as before forming an opinion I'd like to get more information. I hope you can help me with a very basic questions.

1. I heard a thousand times that woman in Islam has to cover herself in order no to tempt the man. I was taking it for granted, but then I have this contradiction that I cannot solve - if man is stronger than woman in all aspects, then why is he provoked so easily?

2. If woman treated as equal in Islam - then why man don't cover themselves?

Thanks.
Elijah.
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1> You're forgetting strength isn't just physical, but has a mental aspect to it as well, which if you ask me, is a factor more dependent on the individuality. Yes, generally men are physically stronger than women but that no way implies that it has to be the same when it comes to mentality and sexual provocation, and I'm sure you get what direction I'm heading at.

2> Does Hijaab applying only to women imply that women are submissive or inferior to men? Nope. The thinking here is actually the opposite. Hijaab is one of the many rights granted to Islamic women. The difference in the two types of thinking is, that you think of it as a burden to women, which isn't the case. Consider it as a gift -countless benefits, anyone?- specially to women. Modest clothing is worn in obedience to God and has nothing to do with submissiveness to men. Muslim men and women have similar rights and obligations and both submit to God.

Hope I was able to answer your question.


Edited by xx__Ace__xx - 08 June 2010 at 11:05am
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:and I'm sure you get what direction I'm heading at.
--- Nope, I don't get it. Please be more specific. I still don't get the following:
1. Why is it always women's fault that men want to have sex
2. What's wrong with having sexual fantasies when looking at somebody (be it man, woman, or transsexual)

: Modest clothing is worn in obedience to God and has nothing to do with submissiveness to men.
--- Please note there is a contradiction between your statements:
a. You state that that man are easily provoked sexually and that is the reason why woman cover themselves, not men.
b. You state that the only reason wearing hijaab is to show obedience to god.
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I agree wth xx.. men may be physically stronger- generally, this does not mean they are not weak.

I have no idea who you are chatting with but that opinion is very cultural. And often a one-dimensional argument.. that men are "stronger" then women. And women are "weaker" That often comes from people who use language out of context. I remember reading a book from a Masjjd about men and women translated. And it really was way off (IMHO). There are plenty of "weak" men and plenty of "weak" women. We all have some weakness or another.  Most people know plenty of weak men. I rarely heard this.

The better way to phrase it is that women ARE more vulnerable then men. We tend to be smaller and very vulnerable when pregnant. Are we women weaker? Heavens check out women who go through 30-40 hours of labor to give birth.  I think alot of women HAVE to be strong. I say we are more vulnerable yes, "weaker" no. 


When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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xx__Ace__xx View Drop Down
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^As she said.

And,
Originally posted by elijah-boy elijah-boy wrote:

1. Why is it always women's fault that men want to have sex

That's the point. Its not. What makes you think its the women that are being blamed for men's provocation? To be specific, as I already emphasized in my previous post was not the case, what makes you think wearing Hijaab is a punishment of some sort handed to women? Smile

Originally posted by elijah-boy elijah-boy wrote:

2. What's wrong with having sexual fantasies when looking at somebody (be it man, woman, or transsexual)

To be very honest, you don't even have a need to bring Islam into this. Simple, practical and logical thinking answers this. What happens when you get sexually provocated, lol? Maybe some people manage to control. Countless rape cases, STD, AIDS, etc, anyone?

Originally posted by elijah-boy elijah-boy wrote:

--- Please note there is a contradiction between your statements:
a. You state that that man are easily provoked sexually and that is the reason why woman cover themselves, not men.
b. You state that the only reason wearing hijaab is to show obedience to god.

That, sir, is purely intentional. Not a contradiction is what I'd call it, rather a look at it from two different angles. In Islam, I convincingly believe that what the Almighty guides me to do is perfectly beneficial to me, the society around me and even the environment. That said, I predict it should be a little clearer to you now, that by wearing Hijaab, not only women obey God who encouraged this act -which is the primary aspect to it- but prevent sexual provocation and its harmful results as well, which is just the cause God has intended this act for.

And just out of the blue, lemme remind you that if in case you happen to be mistaken that weaing a veil is a really compulsory act and should be forced upon women or something, no. Its as I said, just a right which women have, they're perfectly free whether to choose it or not. Its just highly encouraged and an act of obeying God is always preferrable.


Edited by xx__Ace__xx - 08 June 2010 at 11:53pm
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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Points: 2368 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2010 at 6:56am
There are many aspects regarding hijab. Having more than reason does not make the contradictory. Women and men wear it in obedience to Allah. AND there are societal benefits.

1. Modesty (haya) is very central to Islam.The following hadith suggests that modesty is so important that the absence of it could lead a person to sinful behavior and disbelief: �The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: �If you have no shame, do as you wish.�" (al-Bukhari)

Another hadith links modesty to faith: �The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: �Faith consists of more than seventy branches. And haya (modesty) is a part of faith.�� (al-Bukhari) A more comprehensive example of haya can be found in the following hadith:

"Abdullah ibn Mas'ud relates that one day the Prophet said, 'Be shy of Allah (God) Most High as much as is His due.' The companions present said, 'All praise to Allah, we are shy of Him.' The Prophet said, 'That is not the point. Whoever is shy of Allah as much as is His due, he should protect his head and that which it comprises (i.e. mind, mouth, ears), his stomach and that which is adjoining it (i.e. preserve it from unlawful wealth and protect the private parts from the unlawful), and he should remember death and that which is to come after it; and whoever desires the Hereafter should abandon the adornments of this world. Whoever fulfills these duties has been shy of Allah as much as is His due.'" (Musnad Ahmad)

While modest behavior varies from person to person, guidelines do exist in the Qur�an and the Sunnah. The code of modesty for both men and women includes:

  • Lowering the gaze and avoiding flirtatious speech and conduct;
  • Avoiding close physical contact with unrelated members of the opposite sex;
  • Observing modest or Islamic dress according to the Qur�an and Sunnah;
  • Not drawing unnecessary attention to oneself.

If you go to most Muslim dominated areas both men and women are dressed quite fully. The only place I saw shorts in Pakistan was a few men playing futbol. Al men wore longs pants and top.

2. There is nothing wrong with sexual fantasies as long are they are about one's spouse- for men and women.  We have many desires, and they must be put into check to bring us to a higher spiritual plane.






Edited by Hayfa - 09 June 2010 at 6:56am
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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:Having more than reason does not make the contradictory.
--- It does if it reasons contradict one another.
 
:AND there are societal benefits
--- Do you think modesty will stop provoking men sexually?
 
 
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Originally posted by elijah-boy elijah-boy wrote:

:Having more than reason does not make the contradictory.
--- It does if it reasons contradict one another.

Huh? Hayfa and I just eleborated that point. You can't possibly say its a contradiction after reading this, lol;

Originally posted by Hayfa Hayfa wrote:

There are many aspects regarding hijab. Having more than reason does not make the contradictory. Women and men wear it in obedience to Allah. AND there are societal benefits.

1. Modesty (haya) is very central to Islam.The following hadith suggests that modesty is so important that the absence of it could lead a person to sinful behavior and disbelief: �The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: �If you have no shame, do as you wish.�" (al-Bukhari)

Another hadith links modesty to faith: �The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: �Faith consists of more than seventy branches. And haya (modesty) is a part of faith.�� (al-Bukhari) A more comprehensive example of haya can be found in the following hadith:

"Abdullah ibn Mas'ud relates that one day the Prophet said, 'Be shy of Allah (God) Most High as much as is His due.' The companions present said, 'All praise to Allah, we are shy of Him.' The Prophet said, 'That is not the point. Whoever is shy of Allah as much as is His due, he should protect his head and that which it comprises (i.e. mind, mouth, ears), his stomach and that which is adjoining it (i.e. preserve it from unlawful wealth and protect the private parts from the unlawful), and he should remember death and that which is to come after it; and whoever desires the Hereafter should abandon the adornments of this world. Whoever fulfills these duties has been shy of Allah as much as is His due.'" (Musnad Ahmad)



Originally posted by xx__Ace__xx xx__Ace__xx wrote:

That, sir, is purely intentional. Not a contradiction is what I'd call it, rather a look at it from two different angles. In Islam, I convincingly believe that what the Almighty guides me to do is perfectly beneficial to me, the society around me and even the environment. That said, I predict it should be a little clearer to you now, that by wearing Hijaab, not only women obey God who encouraged this act -which is the primary aspect to it- but prevent sexual provocation and its harmful results as well, which is just the cause God has intended this act for.


And I wonder how can you claim two reasons actually supporting and interlinking each other to be a contradiction :/


Originally posted by elijah-boy elijah-boy wrote:

:AND there are societal benefits
--- Do you think modesty will stop provoking men sexually?

Orrrrr, are you telling me a women dressing and conducting herself in perfect modesty and Hijaab would somehow still provoke a man?! Wow. . . In that case such a man needs a serious medical check up, his sexual traits surpass those of a human.



Edited by xx__Ace__xx - 09 June 2010 at 8:41am
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