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What is a Prophet?

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Jazz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 August 2005 at 5:27pm
What is a prophet?

What qualities, traits and virtues would be required to be considered a prophet?

What qualities, traits or virtues would render a person not qualified to be considered a prophet?

I have difficulty understanding why is it that in the faith through Islam, one must believe that Mohammed was a prophet, for one to be considered a true believer in God, and those who don't believe Mohammed's claims of being a chosen prophet are considered to be of lesser faith or on the wrong "path".

I just don't get it...........why is that?

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Deus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2005 at 6:19pm

I think it's a matter of definitions and creed. Let me explain my point of view on this (good question by the way).

The first step to becoming a Muslim is to establish a faith in the existence of a god. So from non-belief (atheism) one becomes a believer. Next, he/she must believe in the oneness of God, that there is no god but the supreme God who sends prophets to this word in order to guide them. So far, this person can be either a Christian, Jew or a Muslim, so we have to add more criteria. After having established belief in the one GOD, a Muslim must believe that Muhammad is also a prophet and a messenger of the one God. Thus, a Muslim is one who believes in the one God and that Muhammad is the messenger of God (this is what defines a Muslim). So from the Muslim�s perspective, if someone rejects the prophethood of Muhammad then he is also rejecting God�s doctrine and is therefore �on the wrong path.� On the other hand a Christian, for example, would consider a Muslim �on the wrong path� because Christianity denies that Muhammad is a prophet of God.

I hope that answered part of your question.

What qualities, traits and virtues would be required to be considered a prophet?

Well, this is a matter of definitions as well. A prophet would be one who has received inspiration/revelation from God. However, God would choose a righteous person with good virtues (e.g. truthfulness, morality, etc.) to be a prophet.

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Jazz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2005 at 1:36am
Originally posted by Deus Deus wrote:

I think it's a matter of definitions and creed. Let me explain my point of view on this (good question by the way).

The first step to becoming a Muslim is to establish a faith in the existence of a god. So from non-belief (atheism) one becomes a believer. Next, he/she must believe in the oneness of God, that there is no god but the supreme God who sends prophets to this word in order to guide them.


Thanks Deus,

This part (in bold) is the part that I have difficulty with.

How do you know what God does?.......how do you know God sends "prophets"?

Anyone can claim to be a "prophet" or anyone can claim that someone is a "prophet" sent by God.........how does one ascertain whether such people are telling the truth?

Out of interest, is there any report from ancient history that you know of that shows Jesus claimed to be a prophet?........I am already aware that there are reports that he said he was "sent" by his "Father"......but nothing that suggests that he claimed being a prophet.

When one compares the guidances and reported behaviour of Mohammed to that of Jesus, which man, based on your own sense of morality and human decency would you deem to be worthy of being prophet-material?



 

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Tasneem View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tasneem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2005 at 5:58am

Jazz wrote: "When one compares the guidances and reported behaviour of Mohammed to that of Jesus, which man, based on your own sense of morality and human decency would you deem to be worthy of being prophet-material?"

Mohammed (PBUH) was a human being and so was Jesus (PBUH). Muhammed (PBUH) displayed all the qualities of a human being in every sense whereas Jesus (PBUH) while being a human being abstained from certain human characterstics such as remaining celibate, putting up with oppression & torture etc. Both were given the power by God to perform miracles though the miracles of Jesus were more overt or pronounced such as he was of virgin birth, he spoke in his cradle, healed the leper and gave sight to the blind. These characteristics that were a gift from God were construed to be God Himself and Jesus began to be worshipped as God and the concept of the trinity came in. So the true message of Jesus was corrupted by giving him a divine status whereas God is free of any need and is in no way like the human being who has biological needs.

Mohammed (PBUH) was sent to humankind by God as an ordinary human being. Unlike Jesus who spoke in his cradle and was of virgin birth, Mohammed received his first revelation at the age of 40. Before that he displayed exemplary charateristics and was called "al-amin" by his people including Jews (meaning trustworthy). He did not ask anything for himself eventhough people from Mecca offered him everything materially possible to be one of them (idolator), but he refused. On more than one occassion his companions were able to see Angel Gabriel among them which itself was a proof that he was receiving revelations. Also when you read the Quran and his message it contains everything eg oceanography, gynaecology, geology,etc everything of which has been scientifically proved to be true and further there is greater elucidation of the knowledge that came before via the Gospel or the Torah. But according to the Quran he was illiterate and the above knowledge was not known at all during that time. God in His own wisdom bestowed upon human beings a prophet who showed all the characterstics of a fine human being and but for him most of todays Muslims would probably have associated others with God and fallen into blasphemy. This is the reason why Muslims follow Prophet Mohammed and acknowedge the great favour that was bestowed upon mankind via Mohammed (PBUH) the last prophet.

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Jazz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2005 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

Jazz wrote: "When one compares the guidances and reported behaviour of Mohammed to that of Jesus, which man, based on your own sense of morality and human decency would you deem to be worthy of being prophet-material?"

Mohammed (PBUH) was a human being and so was Jesus (PBUH). Muhammed (PBUH) displayed all the qualities of a human being in every sense whereas Jesus (PBUH) while being a human being abstained from certain human characterstics such as remaining celibate, putting up with oppression & torture etc.


Thanks Tasneem,
What evidence do you rely upon to conclude that Jesus was
celibate.
Even if this were to be true, what does celibacy or tolerating torture have to do with prophetic qualities?

Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

Both were given the power by God to perform miracles though the miracles of Jesus were more overt or pronounced such as he was of virgin birth, he spoke in his cradle, healed the leper and gave sight to the blind.

How do you know that God gave power to perform miracles to Jesus and Mohammed?

How do you know God even sent any prophets?

Anyone can claim to be or claim that someone is a prophet, why should this be believed?

What were the miracles that Mohammed allegedly performed?

Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

These characteristics that were a gift from God were construed to be God Himself and Jesus began to be worshipped as God and the concept of the trinity came in. So the true message of Jesus was corrupted by giving him a divine status whereas God is free of any need and is in no way like the human being who has biological needs.

How does whether Jesus was considered to be divine or not corrupt his true message?

Why should a person's status in terms of divinity necessarily corrupt the guidances or message they delivered?

It seems it was Mohammed who ignored the true message of Jesus, some of the most important of which were to love one and other, do to others as one would have them do to you, love your neighbour, forgive and love your enemy, etc.

Are you saying these good guidances were not from Jesus or are corrupted?

Mohammed claimed that God wanted mankind to do much the opposite to what Jesus guided people to do, cruel inhumane things like to kill, raid and ambush, punish, dismember, flog, enslave, plunder, loot, crucify, beat one's wife.

How can two alleged prophets sent by God be so opposite in their guidances?

Aside from stories of trinity, divinity and resurrection, what exactly are the corruptions of the true message of Jesus?

Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

Mohammed (PBUH) was sent to humankind by God as an ordinary human being. Unlike Jesus who spoke in his cradle and was of virgin birth, Mohammed received his first revelation at the age of 40. Before that he displayed exemplary charateristics and was called "al-amin" by his people including Jews (meaning trustworthy).

How do you know that God sent Mohammed as a prophet?

Like I said, anyone can claim to be a prophet or claim that someone else is a prophet, it does not make it true.

Whether someone is considered to be trustworthy by a few people does not necessarily qualify the person as a prophet........I know lots of trustworthy people who display exemplary characteristics.
It does not mean they will always be trustworthy and not deceive.

Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

He did not ask anything for himself eventhough people from Mecca offered him everything materially possible to be one of them (idolator), but he refused. On more than one occassion his companions were able to see Angel Gabriel among them which itself was a proof that he was receiving revelations.

Would you cite the evidence of Mohammed's companions seeing an angel?...............if they did actually see someone, how do you know what they saw was an angel?

How did Mohammed know that he was visited by an angel?........it could have been a demon............how do you know he was not lying and actually saw nothing at all?

It seems it was Waraqa who suggested to Mohammed that he was visited by an angel, before that Mohammed thought he was possessed by a demon.......why should Waraqa be correct in his guess?

Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

Also when you read the Quran and his message it contains everything eg oceanography, gynaecology, geology,etc everything of which has been scientifically proved to be true and further there is greater elucidation of the knowledge that came before via the Gospel or the Torah.

I have read much about the retro-fitting of modern day scientific discoveries to Quran and find most attempts are flawed and a stretch of the imagination

Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

But according to the Quran he was illiterate and the above knowledge was not known at all during that time.

According to sahih ahadith, some narrated by Aisha, Mohammed was not illiterate........even if he was it does not qualify him as a prophet and most of what was allegedly "revealed" about the "scientific knowledge" in Quran was already known by people hundreds of years before Mohammed's time or was quite simply observable by anyone at the time.

Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

God in His own wisdom bestowed upon human beings a prophet who showed all the characterstics of a fine human being and but for him most of todays Muslims would probably have associated others with God and fallen into blasphemy. This is the reason why Muslims follow Prophet Mohammed and acknowedge the great favour that was bestowed upon mankind via Mohammed (PBUH) the last prophet.

There is no proof or even any evidence that God sent any prophets or angels.

Sahih hadith attest that Mohammed was far from being the "fine human being" by normal standards.

I suggest it was Jesus who was an example of a "fine human being" and his message and guidance of love, mercy, tolerance, kindness and forgiveness is evidence of this by comparison to Mohammed's claims of God seeking to have inhumane atrocious acts carried out upon fellow humans, such as killing, enslaving, cruel punishments, crucifying, oppression, raiding, ambushing, looting, dismembering, flogging, beat one's wife out of paranoia, etc.

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Tasneem View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tasneem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 August 2005 at 4:43pm

011.025:We sent Noah to his people (with a mission): "I have come to you with a Clear Warning:

011.026:"That ye serve none but Allah: Verily I do fear for you the penalty of a grievous day."

011.027: But the chiefs of the Unbelievers among his people said: "We see (in) thee nothing but a man like ourselves: Nor do we see that any follow thee but the meanest among us, in judgment immature: Nor do we see in you (all) any merit above us: in fact we think ye are liars!"

011.028: He said: "O my people! See ye if (it be that) I have a Clear Sign from my Lord, and that He hath sent Mercy unto me from His own presence, but that the Mercy hath been obscured from your sight? shall we compel you to accept it when ye are averse to it?

011.029:"And O my people! I ask you for no wealth in return: my reward is from none but Allah: But I will not drive away (in contempt) those who believe: for verily they are to meet their Lord, and ye I see are the ignorant ones! 

011.030:"And O my people! who would help me against Allah if I drove them away? Will ye not then take heed?

011.031:"I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor claim I to be an angel. Nor yet do I say, of those whom your eyes do despise that Allah will not grant them (all) that is good: Allah knoweth best what is in their souls: I should, if I did, indeed be a wrong-doer."

To me Jesus (PBUH) is as important as Mohammed (PBUH). You have the choice to believe in whatever you wish, I will not be held accountable for what you do and you will not be held accountable for what I do. The above verses stand true for all the messengers. But history repeats itself when man is blinded by his arrogance and thinks he is all sufficient. Whatever you have claimed in the last two sentences of your post are a deliberate slight on the character of the prophet either from ignorance or from reading material designed to taint Islam as a false religion as believed by those to whom books were sent earlier. Thankfully we don't impose our religion on anyone such as what has been going on for centuries by others through either force or bribe. Yet, those who are guided are moving to Islam everyday of their own free will and no one can harm Islam in the least by their attempts to demonise it as false. But for sure they harm themselves.



Edited by Tasneem
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mouhssine4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mouhssine4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2005 at 2:49pm

if you beleive the message than you will beleive in the messenger

try to study the message that Mohammed(pbuh) brought to us

unlike other religions islam asks us to focus on the message not the messanger as he the messanger is only a human

and what is the message then

there is no Creator, no God, no mercifull but God the only One He is the first and the last, and He is the One that can do anything

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Jazz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2005 at 4:02am
Originally posted by mouhssine4 mouhssine4 wrote:

if you beleive the message than you will beleive in the messenger


This is not logical and in my opinion is not a good advice.

What if I had a message in the mail, it appealled to me as good and I believed it?..........it makes no sense that I should also believe everything the mail-man says or delivers or even believe the message was from who the mail-man said it was from.....he could have written it himself.

Now if the mail-man were to say "I have brought you one good message, therefore you must believe everything I deliver, and I am the only mail-man who delivers good messages nowadays, there will never, ever be another mail-man who delivers good messages"........would you really commit to believing that every message the mail-man delivered was good?............if so.........why?

Would you believe that the mail-man was good in everything he did beside deliver messages.........he might be a liar, a cruel, murdering thief who delivers messages in his spare-time.

A good advice........

"Watch out for false prophets (or mail-men/messengers). They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."
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