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Does the bible preach violence? |
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Ambrosia 
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Joined: 15 August 2005 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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 Topic: Does the bible preach violence?Posted: 25 August 2005 at 6:05pm |
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Many people have been quoting the Quran out of context in an effort to show that Islam promotes violence. A recent op-ed piece by Cal Thomas is a high profile example. This is pure nonsense. Thomas and others doing this are taking selected passages and reading them completely out of context to support whatever argument they wish to make. I can do the same thing with the Bible. Here are some choice passages from the KJV Bible which when read in isolation makes the Bible appear to be a primer for evil: 1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens. 2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants. 3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war. 4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins. 5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently. 6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law. 7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him. Context is important, of course, and many of these seeming cruelties disappear when read as such. However, this would not stop a Christian terrorist from interpreting the Bible in a manner necessary to concoct a religious justification for unspeakable horrors, as Pope Urban II did, for example, when he preached the First Crusade in 1095 or as many American preachers did when they used Leviticus to defend slavery. Political and religious extremists have abused Islamic, Jewish, or Christian scriptures continuously throughout history. Cal Thomas, a man who claims to be Christian, would do well to learn something of his own faith s scriptures and history before accusing Islam s Quran of promoting violence. |
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DavidC
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Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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Posted: 26 August 2005 at 7:17am |
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This is a dumb argument, matching ignorance with ignorance, but if you
insist here are my suggestions. Do not use any OT references. Christians believe the OT laws were abrogated by Jesus. I think Islam believes different prophets had different sharia? Luke 19:22-27 is a parable. It never actually happened. In Mark:7 Jesus is explaining to the Pharisees how hypocritical they are, and that they do not even follow their own laws when they find them uncomfortable. He is not ordering anyone to be killed. Try Matthew 10:34-35. This is a well-known bible text, and a direct quote from Jesus. 34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn " 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw� This refers to the need for people to turn away from the bankrupt Judiasm of the times. You can also find the story of Anaias and Saphira in Acts, where two people are struck dead by God because they witheld money from the church. You should really think long and hard though. There is simply so much more violence in the Qu'ran that this seems to be a losing strategy for discussion. |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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thomas
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Posted: 26 August 2005 at 7:46am |
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Ambrosia : you are lloking to some leaves only. Look at the whole tree of Christianity. Thomas [Tom] |
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Ambrosia
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Posted: 26 August 2005 at 12:30pm |
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If losing ground then why bother partake in the discussion? I didn't think the above was an offensive piece more over I didn't write it but was asked by a friend to post it. I am not really sure where you are going with your fecund manifesto? I don't think Moslems as a whole go on attacking Christianity and Judaism or go equating God's messengers with terrorists the way prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is being portrayed. You speak of violence in the Quran yet something tells me that you are not so very well versed in Arabic which can only tell me that you posted your piece out of subjective views having taken offense at the above posted. Tell me when pat Robertson the good Christian called for an assassination of chavez did you think that was another divine interlude as those frequently received by bush to go terrorizing others while reversing the labels? he calls himself a good Christian you know. Any one can go on quoting out of context the message of my original post as "dumb" as it was.. .
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Ambrosia
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Posted: 26 August 2005 at 1:05pm |
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on another note, I really don't understand what you mean by different messengers different sharia? Message has always been one, distorted for many reasons, people weren't ready, "fitna" may have occurred, people stray.. . God sends another messenger with the same message, there is a theme, even rituals though they may vary greatly have always fallen within the same light
prayers, fast ( lenting) whatever you wish to call it, and holy pilgrimages in pursuit of God, so unless you elaborate on what you have written I really couldn't answer your Q if indeed it fell along the light of a question rather than a long derogatory comment courtesy of the morality squad..
I assume that what you mean by "OT" is old Testament forgive that I am not down with the lingo, I have attended catholic school, and if there was one thing that was hammered in each day was how the new testament was to complete the old. you speak of what Jesus said and Jesus meant so much so as if you were barnbas walking along side him? I really couldn't get into the dynamics of that because for many Christians, bush included things they say would fall along the lines of hypocrisy but I am glad that you say Jesus in fact abrogated all that was in the OT, perhaps good Christians shouldn't go on calling Moslem religious programming to speak of Jewish rights quoting old testament???
you also speak of the "so much more violence in the quran" please do elaborate, as you were able to justify my "dumbness" stating this is OT and this is a parable, I am sure any person on this forum can say this sura was revealed for this and that sura was revealed for that. There is so much in the quran that even in modern day many scholars can't decipher. as was written in Al-Imran there are the verses that are fundamental and those that are allegorical for those who wish to reflect.
Lastly as I afore mentioned Christians and Jews have had their share of violence from crusade to modern day celebrated preachers and a president who was apparently ordained by Jesus himself. Please let's not have this tit for tat approach especially that I don't think I have posted anything that was particularly offensive to any Christian of Jew. Now for the other gentleman who told me that I should look at the whole tree instead of the leaf, I believe I have done so, perhaps you should read the post slower and know that what was meant by is, you can quote anything out of context and go instigating war and hatred.
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judeadrigan
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Joined: 13 August 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Posted: 03 September 2005 at 3:38am |
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Ambrosia, U seem rather angry and defence. The Koran, Torah and Bible all preach violence and cruel punishments for those that sin and fail to repent. The 3 books also preach good things, u cant say one is being interpreted out of context and not the other two. U dont sound dumb to me, indeed very knowledgable, however its good not to be deluded by personal bias. All of these books were written by humans, all humans have failings. |
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Angel
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Joined: 03 July 2001 Status: Offline Points: 6641 |
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Posted: 03 September 2005 at 4:56am |
ooohhh, better watch out for the backlash
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 ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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DavidC
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Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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Posted: 03 September 2005 at 5:59am |
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Hi Ambrosia. Your post was not offensive. I was trying to share my
knowledge of Christian scripture; what you make of it is your own business. As a fellow forum member, I simply did not want you to embarrass yourself by using someone else's weak arguments. The quotes I provided is a good place to begin your discussion. Also, the story of Ham, Shem and Japeth (Genesis 9:25) was the primary biblical justification for slavery in colonial America. Good luck, and may your discussion be enlightening. The concept of sharia being linked to the prophets is something I learned from Muslim members here. I hope others elaborate on this; my understanding is minimal. And thank you for your gentle correction of my error in saying the Qu'ran contains more violence than the NT. I meant to say Sunnah. I did NOT say that Sunnah is anything other than a mercy and blessing to mankind. There are simply more examples of violence, which is to be expected considering how much more there is, and the fact that the Prophet Muhummad was a military general. |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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judeadrigan wrote: