Jesus & his seperation from Divinty

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Translation differentiation, and the (complete) separateness of Allah from His creation 

Surah 3, Al-Imran � Verse 47

Pickthall Translation: She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. if He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.

Yusuf Ali Translation: She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan He but saith to it `Be' and it is!

Daryabadi Translation: She said: my Lord! in what wise shall there be unto me a son whereas no human being hath touched me. Allah said: even so. Allah createth whatsoever He will, When He hath decreed a thing, He only saith to it: Be, and it becometh;

Muhsin Khan Translation: She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for Allah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is.

The above translations all agree on the fact that when Allah {SWT} wishes to create a thing, He only has to say �Be!� � And it is. 

Another point I came across here was that in the earlier verses (45-46) it is agreed on by all commentators that it is the angels whom are talking to Maryam {AS}, hence where the Daryabadi translation indicates (or could be interpreted as such that) Allah {SWT} spoke directly to Maryam {AS} (ie Allah said: even so) I consider a little misleading, even if the commentator desired the meaning to be via the angels.

It may be observed that Maryam {AS} addresses Allah directly, indicating she was weary of what she was been told (by the angels), however this also shows the strength of her tauheed (ie she addressed Allah {SWT} and not the  angels).        &nbs p;     

Other examples illustrating the process Allah uses to create {ie �Be!� � And it is} can be found in the following verses�.. 

Surah 3, Al-Imran � Verse 59

Surah 5, Al-Maa�idah � Verse 17.

Surah 19, Maryam � Verses 34. 35.

__________

Surah 5, Al-Maa�idah � Verse 116

Pickthall Translation: And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified, It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden.

Yusuf Ali Translation: And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! didst thou say unto men `worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

Daryabadi Translation: And call to mind what time Allah will say: O 'Isa, son of Maryam! was it thou who said to the people: take me and my mother as two god beside Allah! 'Isa will say: hallowed be Thou! it was not for me to say that to which had no right; had I said it, Thou would have surely known it; Thou knowest that which is in my mind and know not that which is in Thy mind. Verily Thou! Thou art the Great Knower of the things hidden.

Muhsin Khan Translation: And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my innerself though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the AllKnower of all that is hidden and unseen.

In the above verse we are able to see that Isa {SAW} clearly separates himself from having any association with Allah {SWT}! 

When Isa {SAW} refers to � �You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.� - He is also separating himself from any association, although some have interpreted this differently (ie if Allah {SWT} knows what exists within us, He must be inside us, we must be part of Him). 

However �we� (soul & body) were created by Allah {SWT} in order that His predetermined decree be fulfilled, and it is in this context that we are able to confirm the phenomena of predestination explained in Ayat-ul-Kursi - �He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter� [Holy Qur�an, Surah 2, Al-Baqarah, Verse-255]. 

Allah {SWT} created all things, He exists in a place beyond time (another creation of His), and knows of the effect every (worldly) circumstance will have on His creatures (spiritual well being), it is in this sense that He knows � ��..what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours��, without actually needing to be inside, nor part of a persons soul (other than the fact He created it for His purpose). 

For sure when we strive to grow closer to Allah {SWT}, learning from His pure sources, we each create a concept of Him (in our hearts), however we can never know Him in His entirety, so not everybody�s concept of Him is accurate, hence in ignorance people will misinterpret (�Verily! You (O Muhammad SAW) guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided.� [Holy Qur�an, Surah 28, Quas, Verse-56]). 

So does Allah {SWT} exist in each of us?       

Also of relevance here is that in the Pickthall & Daryabadi translations we can see that the term � mind - is used instead of - heart (in the Yusuf Ali verson) & - inner-self (in the Mushin Khan version). This is of great significance as it illustrates the western (psychologically based) thought pattern that both Pickthall & Daryabadi have used, and brings to light the �war of the worlds� conflict between � ruthless intellect (mind) & compassionate soul (heart, inner-self). 

__________

Surah 5, Al-Maa�idah - Verse 117

Pickthall Translation: I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying) : Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things.

Yusuf Ali Translation: "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say to wit `Worship Allah my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them and Thou art a Witness to all things.

Daryabadi Translation: I spake not unto them aught save that for which Thou badest me: worship Allah, mine Lord and your Lord. I was a witness over them so long as abode amongst them: then when Thou tookest up Thou hast been the Watcher. And over everything Thou art a Witness.

Muhsin Khan Translation: "Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world).

In this verse it is shown that Isa {SAW} was granted intercession with Allah, for those whom he dwelt amongst while in his earthly existence (ie Isa was witness to the corruption of the time, and also the conveyance of the message [for that time]).  

However more important perhaps is that again in this verse we see that Isa {SAW} denies that the collective consciousness of humans (ie our souls) - is Allah {SWT}, or indeed part of Him. This can be perceived by the fact that Isa {SAW} has no share in divinity - no power save that which Allah created for him, and hence that which He bestowed upon him (by His leave).  

__________

Surah 15, Al-Hijr � Verse 28

Pickthall Translation: And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered.

Yusuf Ali Translation: Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from sounding clay from mud molded into shape;

Daryabadi Translation: And recall what time thy Lord said unto the angels: verily I am about to createa man from ringing clay of loam moulded.

Muhsin Khan Translation: And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

Surah 15, Al-Hijr � Verse 29

Pickthall Translation: So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him.

Yusuf Ali Translation: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

Daryabadi Translation: Then when I have formed him and breathed into him of My Spirit fall down unto him prostrate.

Muhsin Khan Translation: "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."

The above verse is vital if we are to perceive our separateness from Allah {SWT}, and hence refrain from placing partners in worship with Him (Glorified is He, above all that they associate in partner with Him). All the interpretations save the Muhsin Khan translation, suggest Allah {SWT} breathed into man �of His spirit�! 

Initially we can perceive that Allah {SWT} does not breath as we humans do, as He is not made of matter like us (matter was created), He is Self-Subsisting - �O mankind! it is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is Rich (Free of all wants and needs), Worthy of all praise.� [Holy Qur�an, Surah 35, Faatir � Verse 15].

Our breath enables us to speak, where as Allah {SWT} speaks without breath - an example been the prayers that are recited alone, a person speaks within the soul. Hence breathing in this case solely relates to the process of a soul been placed into a creatures body, which is not necessarily a breath as we know it.

Secondly as previously explained, and agreed on in all translations, Allah {SWT} ��..created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.� This verse clearly refers to the process of the creation of the soul, and that man himself is created, this seems to negate the false ideology that some of Allah�s spirit exists within us! 

Other examples of the difference in this area (ie of my spirit Vs created for him) can be found within�..

Surah 4 � An-Nisa, Verse 171 

Surah 21 � Al-Anbiya, Verse 91 

Surah 66 � At-Tahreem, Verse 12

__________

Allah is �

Al-Quddus

The One who is pure from any imperfection 

and clear from children and adversaries.

Al-Mutakabbir 

The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures 

and from resembling them.

Al-Mubdi'

The One who started the human being. That is, He created him.

Al-Wahid

The Unique, The One without a partner.

Az-Zahir

The Manifest, 

The One that nothing is above and nothing is underneath,

hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence 

is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies.

Al-Badi^

The Incomparable, 

The One who created the creation and formed it without any preceding example.

Al-Baqi

 The One that the state of non-existence is impossible for Him.

When something is created by something else, it is by no means part of it; to create is to � bring into existence (dictionary interpretation). Allah is Al-Baqi � The One whom brought all things into existence, where as He Himself has always existed. He is free from been created and hence free from imperfection (ie inaccurate perceptions of Him that exist in peoples inner-selves).

It is impossible for Allah to exist (in any other state) other than in His entirety! 

Narrated by Abu Hurayrah {RA}: I heard Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) saying, �Verily Allah created mercy. The day He created it, He made it into 100 parts. He withheld with Him 99 parts, and sent its 1 part to all His creatures. Had the non-believer known of all the mercy which is in the hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire.� (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 8.476).

The above Hadith narrates the process by which Allah created mercy, my perception of this is that in the epoch before Allah {SWT} created any of His creations, He existed in �Independence - therefore he had no need for mercy, because He is without imperfection. Only when he created beings that were other than Him (and hence imperfect), did He create mercy, which indicates that even the very best qualities within the human being (ie mercy etc) are not actually ��.of His Spirit�, rather they were also created (by Him).    

__________

Surah 67, Al-Mulk - Verse 16

Pickthall Translation: Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed?

Yusuf Ali Translation: Do ye feel secure that He Who is in heaven will not cause you to be swallowed up by the earth when it shakes (as in an earthquake)?

Daryabadi Translation: Are ye secure that He who is in the heaven will not sink the earth with you and then it should quake?

Muhsin Khan Translation: Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not cause the earth to sink with you, then behold it shakes (as in an earthquake)?

Surah 67, Al-Mulk - Verse 17

Pickthall Translation: Or have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not let loose on you a hurricane? But ye shall know the manner of My warning.

Yusuf Ali Translation: Or do ye feel secure that He Who is in Heaven will not send against you a violent tornado (with showers of stones) so that ye shall know how (terrible) was My warning?

Daryabadi Translation: Or are ye secure that He Who is in the heaven will not send against you a whirlwind? Anon ye shall know what wise hath been My warning.

Muhsin Khan Translation: Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not send against you a violent whirlwind? Then you shall know how (terrible) has been My Warning?

These verses confirm that Allah {SWT} is separate from the earthly plain and does not dwell in this world, which the below Hadith supports�..

Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, quoted the Prophet as saying: �When the last one-third of the night remains, our Lord, the Glorious One descends towards the lower heaven and proclaims: Is there anyone supplicating to Me, so that I grant his supplication? Is there anyone begging of Me for anything so that and I grant him his wish? Is there anyone who seeks My forgiveness, so that I forgive him?� (Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim).

�..However again we are able to see the Muhsin Khan interpretation differing from the others, namely in the area describing  that Allah {SWT} is dwelling �over� the (seventh) heaven (I would use the word � beyond), as a pose to the other interpretations version of �in heaven�. The description of Allah�s name - Az-Zahir supports the over/beyond notion (ie The One that nothing is above and nothing is underneath, hence He exists without a place).

__________

When summarising this essay I conclude that the �Muhsin Khan� interpretation is the most authentic of the four, on these very important issues of Tauheed. Having previously discussed the issue of oppression and greed I found within that translation (See the Humility! Thread in the World politics section), I feel it only right of me to give credit where it is due, hence overall I deem this interpretation to be most authentic English interpretation of the Qur�an (that I have read).

So my question is to those whom disagree, on what grounds do you base your opinion?

For innocent Muslim�s are suffering due to those with worldly power been indifferent!     

________________________________________________________

Translations of the Qur�an taken from: http://www.parexcellence.co.za/islam/quraan.asp

Translation of the 99 names of Allah taken from - http://www.jannah.org/articles/names.html, (cross referenced with Islamicity & other sites).

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duce Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 02 October 2005 Status: Offline Points: 18	Post Options Post Reply Quote duce Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Jesus & his seperation from Divinty Posted: 05 October 2005 at 7:52am
	Translation differentiation, and the (complete) separateness of Allah from His creation Surah 3, Al-Imran � Verse 47 Pickthall Translation: She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. if He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. Yusuf Ali Translation: She said: "O my Lord! how shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth; when He hath decreed a plan He but saith to it `Be' and it is! Daryabadi Translation: She said: my Lord! in what wise shall there be unto me a son whereas no human being hath touched me. Allah said: even so. Allah createth whatsoever He will, When He hath decreed a thing, He only saith to it: Be, and it becometh; Muhsin Khan Translation: She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for Allah creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is. The above translations all agree on the fact that when Allah {SWT} wishes to create a thing, He only has to say �Be!� � And it is. Another point I came across here was that in the earlier verses (45-46) it is agreed on by all commentators that it is the angels whom are talking to Maryam {AS}, hence where the Daryabadi translation indicates (or could be interpreted as such that) Allah {SWT} spoke directly to Maryam {AS} (ie Allah said: even so) I consider a little misleading, even if the commentator desired the meaning to be via the angels. It may be observed that Maryam {AS} addresses Allah directly, indicating she was weary of what she was been told (by the angels), however this also shows the strength of her tauheed (ie she addressed Allah {SWT} and not the angels). &nbs p; Other examples illustrating the process Allah uses to create {ie �Be!� � And it is} can be found in the following verses�.. Surah 3, Al-Imran � Verse 59 Surah 5, Al-Maa�idah � Verse 17. Surah 19, Maryam � Verses 34. 35. __________ Surah 5, Al-Maa�idah � Verse 116 Pickthall Translation: And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified, It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden. Yusuf Ali Translation: And behold! Allah will say "O Jesus the son of Mary! didst thou say unto men `worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah"? He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. Daryabadi Translation: And call to mind what time Allah will say: O 'Isa, son of Maryam! was it thou who said to the people: take me and my mother as two god beside Allah! 'Isa will say: hallowed be Thou! it was not for me to say that to which had no right; had I said it, Thou would have surely known it; Thou knowest that which is in my mind and know not that which is in Thy mind. Verily Thou! Thou art the Great Knower of the things hidden. Muhsin Khan Translation: And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my innerself though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the AllKnower of all that is hidden and unseen. In the above verse we are able to see that Isa {SAW} clearly separates himself from having any association with Allah {SWT}! When Isa {SAW} refers to � �You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden and unseen.� - He is also separating himself from any association, although some have interpreted this differently (ie if Allah {SWT} knows what exists within us, He must be inside us, we must be part of Him). However �we� (soul & body) were created by Allah {SWT} in order that His predetermined decree be fulfilled, and it is in this context that we are able to confirm the phenomena of predestination explained in Ayat-ul-Kursi - �He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter� [Holy Qur�an, Surah 2, Al-Baqarah, Verse-255]. Allah {SWT} created all things, He exists in a place beyond time (another creation of His), and knows of the effect every (worldly) circumstance will have on His creatures (spiritual well being), it is in this sense that He knows � ��..what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours��, without actually needing to be inside, nor part of a persons soul (other than the fact He created it for His purpose). For sure when we strive to grow closer to Allah {SWT}, learning from His pure sources, we each create a concept of Him (in our hearts), however we can never know Him in His entirety, so not everybody�s concept of Him is accurate, hence in ignorance people will misinterpret (�Verily! You (O Muhammad SAW) guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He knows best those who are the guided.� [Holy Qur�an, Surah 28, Quas, Verse-56]). So does Allah {SWT} exist in each of us? Also of relevance here is that in the Pickthall & Daryabadi translations we can see that the term � mind - is used instead of - heart (in the Yusuf Ali verson) & - inner-self (in the Mushin Khan version). This is of great significance as it illustrates the western (psychologically based) thought pattern that both Pickthall & Daryabadi have used, and brings to light the �war of the worlds� conflict between � ruthless intellect (mind) & compassionate soul (heart, inner-self). __________ Surah 5, Al-Maa�idah - Verse 117 Pickthall Translation: I spake unto them only that which Thou commandedst me, (saying) : Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when Thou tookest me Thou wast the Watcher over them. Thou art Witness over all things. Yusuf Ali Translation: "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say to wit `Worship Allah my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them and Thou art a Witness to all things. Daryabadi Translation: I spake not unto them aught save that for which Thou badest me: worship Allah, mine Lord and your Lord. I was a witness over them so long as abode amongst them: then when Thou tookest up Thou hast been the Watcher. And over everything Thou art a Witness. Muhsin Khan Translation: "Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world). In this verse it is shown that Isa {SAW} was granted intercession with Allah, for those whom he dwelt amongst while in his earthly existence (ie Isa was witness to the corruption of the time, and also the conveyance of the message [for that time]). However more important perhaps is that again in this verse we see that Isa {SAW} denies that the collective consciousness of humans (ie our souls) - is Allah {SWT}, or indeed part of Him. This can be perceived by the fact that Isa {SAW} has no share in divinity - no power save that which Allah created for him, and hence that which He bestowed upon him (by His leave). __________ Surah 15, Al-Hijr � Verse 28 Pickthall Translation: And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered. Yusuf Ali Translation: Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from sounding clay from mud molded into shape; Daryabadi Translation: And recall what time thy Lord said unto the angels: verily I am about to createa man from ringing clay of loam moulded. Muhsin Khan Translation: And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. Surah 15, Al-Hijr � Verse 29 Pickthall Translation: So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him. Yusuf Ali Translation: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit fall ye down in obeisance unto him." Daryabadi Translation: Then when I have formed him and breathed into him of My Spirit fall down unto him prostrate. Muhsin Khan Translation: "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him." The above verse is vital if we are to perceive our separateness from Allah {SWT}, and hence refrain from placing partners in worship with Him (Glorified is He, above all that they associate in partner with Him). All the interpretations save the Muhsin Khan translation, suggest Allah {SWT} breathed into man �of His spirit�! Initially we can perceive that Allah {SWT} does not breath as we humans do, as He is not made of matter like us (matter was created), He is Self-Subsisting - �O mankind! it is you who stand in need of Allah, but Allah is Rich (Free of all wants and needs), Worthy of all praise.� [Holy Qur�an, Surah 35, Faatir � Verse 15]. Our breath enables us to speak, where as Allah {SWT} speaks without breath - an example been the prayers that are recited alone, a person speaks within the soul. Hence breathing in this case solely relates to the process of a soul been placed into a creatures body, which is not necessarily a breath as we know it. Secondly as previously explained, and agreed on in all translations, Allah {SWT} ��..created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.� This verse clearly refers to the process of the creation of the soul, and that man himself is created, this seems to negate the false ideology that some of Allah�s spirit exists within us! Other examples of the difference in this area (ie of my spirit Vs created for him) can be found within�.. Surah 4 � An-Nisa, Verse 171 Surah 21 � Al-Anbiya, Verse 91 Surah 66 � At-Tahreem, Verse 12 __________ Allah is � Al-Quddus The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear from children and adversaries. Al-Mutakabbir The One who is clear from the attributes of the creatures and from resembling them. Al-Mubdi' The One who started the human being. That is, He created him. Al-Wahid The Unique, The One without a partner. Az-Zahir The Manifest, The One that nothing is above and nothing is underneath, hence He exists without a place. He, The Exalted, His Existence is obvious by proofs and He is clear from the delusions of attributes of bodies. Al-Badi^ The Incomparable, The One who created the creation and formed it without any preceding example. Al-Baqi The One that the state of non-existence is impossible for Him. When something is created by something else, it is by no means part of it; to create is to � bring into existence (dictionary interpretation). Allah is Al-Baqi � The One whom brought all things into existence, where as He Himself has always existed. He is free from been created and hence free from imperfection (ie inaccurate perceptions of Him that exist in peoples inner-selves). It is impossible for Allah to exist (in any other state) other than in His entirety! Narrated by Abu Hurayrah {RA}: I heard Allah's Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) saying, �Verily Allah created mercy. The day He created it, He made it into 100 parts. He withheld with Him 99 parts, and sent its 1 part to all His creatures. Had the non-believer known of all the mercy which is in the hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire.� (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 8.476). The above Hadith narrates the process by which Allah created mercy, my perception of this is that in the epoch before Allah {SWT} created any of His creations, He existed in �Independence - therefore he had no need for mercy, because He is without imperfection. Only when he created beings that were other than Him (and hence imperfect), did He create mercy, which indicates that even the very best qualities within the human being (ie mercy etc) are not actually ��.of His Spirit�, rather they were also created (by Him). __________ Surah 67, Al-Mulk - Verse 16 Pickthall Translation: Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed? Yusuf Ali Translation: Do ye feel secure that He Who is in heaven will not cause you to be swallowed up by the earth when it shakes (as in an earthquake)? Daryabadi Translation: Are ye secure that He who is in the heaven will not sink the earth with you and then it should quake? Muhsin Khan Translation: Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not cause the earth to sink with you, then behold it shakes (as in an earthquake)? Surah 67, Al-Mulk - Verse 17 Pickthall Translation: Or have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not let loose on you a hurricane? But ye shall know the manner of My warning. Yusuf Ali Translation: Or do ye feel secure that He Who is in Heaven will not send against you a violent tornado (with showers of stones) so that ye shall know how (terrible) was My warning? Daryabadi Translation: Or are ye secure that He Who is in the heaven will not send against you a whirlwind? Anon ye shall know what wise hath been My warning. Muhsin Khan Translation: Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not send against you a violent whirlwind? Then you shall know how (terrible) has been My Warning? These verses confirm that Allah {SWT} is separate from the earthly plain and does not dwell in this world, which the below Hadith supports�.. Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, quoted the Prophet as saying: �When the last one-third of the night remains, our Lord, the Glorious One descends towards the lower heaven and proclaims: Is there anyone supplicating to Me, so that I grant his supplication? Is there anyone begging of Me for anything so that and I grant him his wish? Is there anyone who seeks My forgiveness, so that I forgive him?� (Narrated by Bukhari, Muslim). �..However again we are able to see the Muhsin Khan interpretation differing from the others, namely in the area describing that Allah {SWT} is dwelling �over� the (seventh) heaven (I would use the word � beyond), as a pose to the other interpretations version of �in heaven�. The description of Allah�s name - Az-Zahir supports the over/beyond notion (ie The One that nothing is above and nothing is underneath, hence He exists without a place). __________ When summarising this essay I conclude that the �Muhsin Khan� interpretation is the most authentic of the four, on these very important issues of Tauheed. Having previously discussed the issue of oppression and greed I found within that translation (See the Humility! Thread in the World politics section), I feel it only right of me to give credit where it is due, hence overall I deem this interpretation to be most authentic English interpretation of the Qur�an (that I have read). So my question is to those whom disagree, on what grounds do you base your opinion? For innocent Muslim�s are suffering due to those with worldly power been indifferent! ________________________________________________________ Translations of the Qur�an taken from: http://www.parexcellence.co.za/islam/quraan.asp Translation of the 99 names of Allah taken from - http://www.jannah.org/articles/names.html, (cross referenced with Islamicity & other sites).

djuce Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 15	Post Options Post Reply Quote djuce Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 October 2005 at 6:42am
	With regards to Love�.. Narrated 'Abd Allah bin Hisham: 'We were with the Prophet (SAW) and he was holding the hand of 'Umar ibnu Al-Khattab (RA). 'Umar said to him, "O Allah's Messenger (SAW)! You are dearer to me than everything except my own-self." Allah's Messenger (SAW) said: "No, by Him in Whose Hand my soul is, (you will not have complete Faith) until I am dearer to you than your own-self." Then 'Umar (RAA) said: "However, now, by Allah, you are dearer to me than my own-self." He (SAW) then said: "Now, O 'Umar, (now you are a believer)." The Gospel - Matthew 10:34 Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 10:35 For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law: 10:36 And a man's foes' shall be they of his own household. 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Now there is something � Two Prophet�s agreeing with each other! However I am more interested if you get it?

Angela Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555	Post Options Post Reply Quote Angela Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 October 2005 at 11:27am
	I'm sorry, but the quotes you've posted are out of context. Jesus if foretelling the persecutions of the faithful. Matthew 10 (New King James Version) Matthew 10 The Twelve Apostles ¹ And when He had called His twelve disciples to Him, He gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease. ² Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; ³ Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was^[a] Thaddaeus; ⁴ Simon the Cananite,^[b] and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him. Sending Out the Twelve ⁵ These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: �Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. ⁶ But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ⁷ And as you go, preach, saying, �The kingdom of heaven is at hand.� ⁸ Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead,^[c] cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. ⁹ Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, ¹⁰ nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food. ¹¹ �Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. ¹² And when you go into a household, greet it. ¹³ If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. ¹⁴ And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. ¹⁵ Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city! Persecutions Are Coming ¹⁶ �Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. ¹⁷ But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. ¹⁸ You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. ¹⁹ But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; ²⁰ for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. ²¹ �Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. ²² And you will be hated by all for My name�s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. ²³ When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. ²⁴ �A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master. ²⁵ It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub,^[d] how much more will they call those of his household! ²⁶ Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known. Jesus Teaches the Fear of God ²⁷ �Whatever I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; and what you hear in the ear, preach on the housetops. ²⁸ And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. ²⁹ Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father�s will. ³⁰ But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. ³¹ Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. Confess Christ Before Men ³² �Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. ³³ But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Christ Brings Division ³⁴ �Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. ³⁵ For I have come to �set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law�; ³⁶ and �a man�s enemies will be those of his own household.�^[e] ³⁷ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. ³⁸ And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. ³⁹ He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it. A Cup of Cold Water ⁴⁰ �He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. ⁴¹ He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet�s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man�s reward. ⁴² And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.�

Fahad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter Joined: 31 October 2005 Location: Kuwait Status: Offline Points: 1	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fahad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 October 2005 at 6:11pm
	The translation difference is coz Arabic is a very difficult language to translate. ask any arab linguist,he will tell the same Regards

Israfil Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984	Post Options Post Reply Quote Israfil Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 October 2005 at 7:07pm
	LOL same with Mandarin Chinese

fresh Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote fresh Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 November 2005 at 2:42pm
	*�I'm sorry, but the quotes you've posted are out of context. Jesus if foretelling the persecutions of the faithful. �* In what way are my quotes out of context? Are both Prophets {SAW} not saying that you should love us (ie the message God has bestowed upon us) more than your own-selves (or your own households)? Are they not saying so because God has bestowed Prophethood upon them, hence for anyone to love himself, or herself more than the Prophet�s (and their messages) - is to claim Prophethood for themselves! Hence is Jesus {SAW} not translating the fact that because the disciples love him more than their own households, they would receive condemnation not only from their own households (& hence inside oneself where your parents intuition has been ingrained upon you), but also all those whom have not yet heard or perceived (the message)?

fresh Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 01 November 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote fresh Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 November 2005 at 2:50pm
	�The translation difference is coz Arabic is a very difficult language to translate. ask any arab linguist,he will tell the same� So what are you saying, these linguists don�t know the difference between the English word heart/inner-self, and mind? And that this difference has nothing to do with the western conceptualisation that there is no soul, rather only your brain that dies when you do!!!

Angela Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555	Post Options Post Reply Quote Angela Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 November 2005 at 3:22pm
	Are they not saying so because God has bestowed Prophethood upon them, hence for anyone to love himself, or herself more than the Prophet�s (and their messages) - is to claim Prophethood for themselves! Hence is Jesus {SAW} not translating the fact that because the disciples love him more than their own households, they would receive condemnation not only from their own households (& hence inside oneself where your parents intuition has been ingrained upon you), but also all those whom have not yet heard or perceived (the message)? Fresh, sometimes I think the worst part of your questions is I don't understand what the Hades you're asking. Instead of arguing you're point inside the question. Ask it plainly, then argue you're point. ⁴⁰ �He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. ⁴¹ He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet�s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man�s reward. ⁴² And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.� What he is saying here is that you need to focus on the right things. Actions are important, mercy, and faith. If you get up in who are Prophets, Apostles and righteous men, then you lose sight of what's important. Charity and Love.

Jesus & his seperation from Divinty

I'm sorry, but the quotes you've posted are out of context. Jesus if foretelling the persecutions of the faithful.

Matthew 10 (New King James Version)

Matthew 10

The Twelve Apostles

Sending Out the Twelve

Persecutions Are Coming

Jesus Teaches the Fear of God

Confess Christ Before Men

Christ Brings Division

A Cup of Cold Water