IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Emperor Constantine was a Heretic  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedEmperor Constantine was a Heretic

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>
Author
Message
Bismarck View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 01 March 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 286
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Emperor Constantine was a Heretic
    Posted: 01 March 2006 at 10:27pm

Emperor Constantine

Emperor Constantine ruled from 306 - 337 CE.  He is the reason -- outside of the holy Messiah himself -- that "the West" is Christian.  On his deathbed (following the predominant custom of his day), he was baptized by Eusebius of Nicomedia, a prominent Arian Christian.  (The Arians were the followers of Arius, a Berber or Libyan who taught in Alexandria that Jesus was not eternal and was subordinate to God the Father, a non-Trinitarian doctrine much more in harmony with Islam.)

Put plainly, Emperor Constantine was an Arian Christian.

Indeed, Arianism was dominant for much of the 4th century (300s) because it was backed by the Imperial family (Constantine's descendents).  It was not until the reign of the staunchly Trinitarian Emperor Theodosius (392 - 395 CE) that Arianism was officially outlawed within the Roman state.  Arianism has been branded heresy by all Christendom since that day.

Put plainly, the man who made "the West" Christian was a heretic!

 

Lucian of Antioch

Lucian (240 - 312 CE) was a Syrian from Samasota (modern Samsat), Syria.  He is known as the father of the "Majority Text", the body of writings the Eastern Orthodox Church (Greek & Russian) regards as the purest surviving biblical manuscripts.  Taken together, these manuscripts form a complete Orthodox Bible (Old & New Testaments).  The long-since-lost Master Copy was, according to tradition, compiled by Lucian.

This "Majority Text" ultimately undergirds the famous "Authorized Version", often called the "King James Version", so-called.  (FYI, King James was a rampant Sodomite, and his authorizing the Puritans to produce an official Protestant Bible in England was literally the least he could afford to do at the time.)

This "Authorized Version" is widely hailed as the best modern translation of the Old & New Testaments.  (Catholics would argue this point, of course.)

So, we have established that Lucian gave us the best surviving biblical manuscripts in all of ("Western") Christendom.

In particular, he is hailed by the Eastern Orthodox.

And yet Lucian had a very famous pupil -- Arius of Alexandria.  In fact, Lucian is widely regarded as the true author of Arius' school of thought!  That is, "Arian" Christianity is more properly Lucian Christianity!

Put plainly, Lucian was an Arian Christian.

Put plainly, the man to whom all of Christendom (outside Rome) gratefully looks for its scriptures was also a heretic!

And, what is more, exactly the same flavor of heretic as Emperor Constantine, the man who made "the West" officially Christian.

 

If you didn't know better, you'd say those Arians couldn't be all that bad!  They made us Christian, and they gave us our best bibles!  (And, as it happens, their views were much closer to Islam.)

And yet all of Christendom today brands the Arians hereticsFalse worshippers!  Wolves in Sheeps' clothings!

And yet they gave us our faith and our bibles.

Heretics made "the West" Christian and gave "the West" their scriptures.

 

This is a logical inconsistency, and falls in the "condemned by thine own tongue" category.

Back to Top
Khadija1021 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Joined: 30 June 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 530
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2006 at 2:48am
Bismarck, I am the moderator for IC forum.  What is your purpose for starting this thread under the section "Islam for Non-Muslims" or anywhere else on IC forum for that matter?  Unless you can show how this topic is relavent to Islam, I will have to delet it.  Sister Khadija
Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
Back to Top
rami View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Male
Joined: 01 March 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2006 at 3:23am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Sister there is no need to delete it posting in the wrong section is not a violation of the forum guidlines, it would be more fitting to move it to interfaith discussion which would acomodate the above topic.

He is pointing out that the original christians were unitarian not trinitarian, there beliefs were more in line with islamic beliefs rather than modern Christian beliefs.

thanks for the information Bismark, ive been looking for something like this for some time.


Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
Back to Top
Khadija1021 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Joined: 30 June 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 530
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2006 at 4:15am

Assalamu Alaikum

Brother Rami, I have moved the thread to the section you suggested but I am unsure if Bismarck is allowed to post here yet given that Bismarck is a new member.  Shukrun for your suggestion.

Allah Hafiz

Sister Khadija

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
Back to Top
rami View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Male
Joined: 01 March 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2006 at 4:52am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

There is no rule as such stoping people from posting anywhere, it is something that they can not do untill after 40 posts at which time we decide if they are to be given access to other sections.

The Islam for non muslims section has no restrictions upon it even after 40 posts.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
Back to Top
Khadija1021 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Joined: 30 June 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 530
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2006 at 5:21am

Assalamu Alaikum

Brother Rami, I understand this rule and that is why I made the comment regarding moving this thread to a section of the forum which is off limits at this time for the person who originally started the thread.  Bismarck has only posted 2 since started IC.  Bismarck started this thread in Islam for non-Muslims section; however, since I moved it to Interfaith section as you suggested, Bismarck can not longer post on this thread.  Inshallah you understanding what I am saying.  I simply didn't know if we should move a thread started by someone to a section which is off limits to them.

Allah Hafiz

Sister Khadija

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
Back to Top
rami View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Male
Joined: 01 March 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 March 2006 at 5:32am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

sister there should be no restrictions on interfaith section as far as i know.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
Back to Top
Bismarck View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member

Joined: 01 March 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 286
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 March 2006 at 8:32pm

I forgot to say one other thing about Emperor Constantine and early Christianity.

In round numbers, Emperor Constantine, along with early Christianity in the Roman Empire, was legally Arian until the time of Theodosius (r. 392 - 395 CE).  Theodosius was a staunch Trinitarian.

Therefore, we have the following situation:

Christianity was Arian / Unitarian for 80 years, after which time it became Trinitarian

Put another way,

After 80 years of being in power and wedded to the absolute authority of the Roman Imperial Government, Christianity suddenly changed from Unitarian to Trinitarian

Or, finally,

We take Early (Unitarian) Christianity, and we subject it to 80 years of Absolute Power.  And we know the saying, "Absolute Power corrupts absolutely."  After 80 years in a "bath" of "absolute corruption" -- figuratively speaking -- Christianity suddenly evolves into a Trinitarian variant.

Therefore, if you say that Trinitarian Christianity is true, then what you are saying, right or wrong, is that after gorging on absolute power for 80 years, Christianity actually came out more pure.  That is the logical argument you are making, right or wrong.  You are saying that after feeding Christianity a diet of Absolute Power, for 80 years, a time period sufficient to Absolutely Corrupt all mere mortals (such as the church officials themselves?), Christianity actually got better, purer, more true, closer to the Messiah's original ministry.  That is what you are claiming, right or wrong.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.