universe shaped like a trumpet |
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icforumadmin
Admin Group Joined: 15 February 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Posted: 04 April 2005 at 11:41pm |
Now they say it is shaped like a trumpet At first they thought it was flat. Then that it was shaped like a football. But now, scientists believe the universe could be shaped like a flat-sided trumpet. That would lead to strange effects in some parts of the universe, where time and light would be so curved that you could see the back of your own head. Also, a long-held theory about the universe - that it looks much the same anywhere - would have to be abandoned. And finally, the universe would be finite, rather than extending in every direction forever.
Source: The Independent Additional References: Big Bang glow hints at funnel-shaped Universe Additional IslamiCity Notes: When we see scientific discoveries through the prism of the Quran it helps us in understanding the complexity and awe-inspiring nature of creation. Scientific discoveries are evolutionary, at the same time our belief is that God has sent down the Quran for all ages. As we acquire new knowledge our understanding of creation and how we see them in light of the Quran will transform. Visit IslamiCity Islam & Science Center |
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Fuhad
Newbie Joined: 18 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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The main concern here is that Muslims should resist the temptation of corroborating new scientific findings with their traditions ( Koran and the rest !). Due to the impermanance of the scientific knowledge, at any moment the long-held hypothesis (to which many belivers would like to cling as a proof of their beliefs!) can be contradicted with the availability of new evidence. I presume Muslims will have tough time in finding �details� in their tradition of the latest " will be discovered" data from one of the moons of Saturn. As far as I know Quran does not talk about evidence of life on Mars and Saturn specifically! ( note: the Quran is silent on certain issues, this does not mean anything new contradicts it!) Regards Fuhad
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nadir
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Assalaamu Alaikum Fuhad Just to pick up on your point � �The main concern here is that Muslims should resist the temptation of corroborating new scientific findings with their traditions (Koran and the rest !). Due to the impermanance of the scientific knowledge, at any moment the long-held hypothesis (to which many belivers would like to cling as a proof of their beliefs!) can be contradicted with the availability of new evidence.� A scientific finding should be, by its very essence � fact, if it is not then how can it be justified as science (or evidence). I say this in the light of the techniques, science, is a slave of. A scientific explanation/fact is (basically) not a fact, unless another person can copy the initial experiment/findings and arrive at the very same conclusion/findings. And even then, if scientists do not know how �physical laws� are governed, they only posses a shallow type of knowledge (ie worldly). This trumpet article is nonsense, and is not evidence, nor scientific! Rather another means to trap unsuspecting and innocent people within the web of illusion. I would like to comment more on this issue, but I think it may prove a convenient way to help people whose intentions I do not trust. Wasalaam nadir
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kim!
Senior Member Joined: 17 September 2001 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 2390 |
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Awww - can't the universe be evidence of God "Blowing His Own Trumpet"? Kim... |
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nadir
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Assalaamu Alaikum Kim Alhamdulilah Wow!!! It could be!!!!! Well as long as you don�t mind believing those who �clutch at straws�. Allah (SWT) is far more Majestic than they will ever perceive, far more Majestic than they will ever give Him credit for, Glorified is He above all that they associate in partner with Him. OK, lets see where this journey leads, how about picking me a Muslim name so that I might know you a little better, I promise to be gentle in my reply, if you choose to do so�.. Insha Allah Wasalaam Nadir Talib (rare seeker [of truth])
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kim!
Senior Member Joined: 17 September 2001 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 2390 |
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Hi, I don't understand why you seem to think I need to choose a Muslim name for you, since you seem to have a perfectly good one already. I think I am a bit of a strange creature sometimes - I have no problems believing that God, the Big Bang theory, the "weird shape of the universe theory" and the theory of evolution all exist at once. Faith in God appears to be worthless unless it is given freely. ie: people have freedom of choice in their lives. I hate to sound like a fence-sitter, but it occurs to me that God may actually have given humans to right and the ability to make choices, for right or wrong, and the Big Challenge might be that despite all the bad choices and the bad things that happen in the world, that people Find God anyway. Freely and through their own choices. If God is omnipotent and All-seeing, then God has the ability to let us make our own choices and He can see all the different consequences and knows what will happen to us anyway. Now, admittedly, I have grown up believing the theory of evolution all my life, so I am biased of course, but I really believe that if God exists, He gave the universe the basic building blocks, then let the whole thing develop and evolve over billions of (our) years. SO much more interesting than just clicking His fingers and making everything just "appear" out of nothing. Stuff _still_ appeared out of nothing, of course, but with the invention of a few parameters like the laws of physics, everything else developed. Is that just a terrible thing? As far as I can see, the more scientists discover, the more things we have to marvel at and go "wow - look how amazing God is!" Kim... |
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nadir
Senior Member Joined: 22 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Assalaamu alaikum Sorry Kim , you misunderstood me, I wanted you to pick a Muslim name for yourself, so that I might know your personality a little better�.. Just to pick up on a point you make, I think the thing is about humans making choices is that, if those choices are made without any moral obligation (to God), others may be hurt by the choices made. Hence do you not think that it would be better if people ended up finding God, but through others help, rather than their hindrance (or a bit of both)? Billions of years sounds a lot, but you might want to take into consideration, the fact that Allah (SWT) Created Time, and hence He is beyond - Time & No Time. Hence the concept of Creating and then letting everything just happen is a bit iffy, as if time exists only within Allah�s Creation, and not the place where He dwells, then in the place He dwells everything has already happened (sorry I am already feeling this is going to baffle your intellect, hence see if you are able to reflect upon these words in the place of non-intellect). I agree that it is good to marvel over Allah�s (SWT) creation, however I hope you realise that peoples intentions can be very obscure. Wasalaam nadir |
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kim!
Senior Member Joined: 17 September 2001 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 2390 |
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Hi All, Nadir posted the above reply to me personally, too, so I sent him a reply. Now I will share it with you, too. :)
-- Previous Private Message --
Assalaamu alaikum Sorry Kim , you misunderstood me, I wanted you to pick a Muslim name for yourself, so that I might know your personality a little better�.. Just to pick up on a point you make, I think the thing is about humans making choices is that, if those choices are made without any moral obligation (to God), others may be hurt by the choices made.
<kim> Yes, but that's just the point. We have to learn to make choices that _don't_ hurt others and the "others" have to learn to cope with life in a positive and fulfulling way even if they _are_ hurt. Do you see what I mean? We ALL have to make choices and I believe we make them freely. If we are all just robots with no choice then A) what is religion for anyway? God already knows what we are going to do because we never had any choice in the first place, and B) how can he punish us for ANYTHING AT ALL if we have no free will or choice?
Hence do you not think that it would be better if people ended up finding God, but through others help, rather than their hindrance (or a bit of both)?
<kim> Both.
Billions of years sounds a lot, but you might want to take into consideration, the fact that Allah (SWT) Created Time, and hence He is beyond - Time & No Time. Hence the concept of Creating and then letting everything just happen is a bit iffy, as if time exists only within Allah�s Creation, and not the place where He dwells, then in the place He dwells everything has already happened (sorry I am already feeling this is going to baffle your intellect, hence see if you are able to reflect upon these words in the place of non-intellect).
<kim> Oi! Are you calling me stupid? I can fully understand if God is beyond time and space and whatever - he'd have been pretty bored if he had experience time in Real Time, I'm sure! But God has to set up time for humans in order that everything doesn't happen all at once ;) And he knows we need time to learn and to, well, just exist!
I agree that it is good to marvel over Allah�s (SWT) creation, however I hope you realise that peoples intentions can be very obscure.
<kim> Yes, but again, I think that's the point. We all have to learn to live with each other, even if we don't understand everything and everyone.
Kim...
Wasalaam nadir |
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