immaculate conception/original sin

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   "IMMACULATE CONCEPTION 
of the Virgin Mary. This doctrine was asserted by Muhammad (Mishkat, book i. ch. iii. pt. 1). The Prophet said, "There is not of the sons of Adam, except Mary and her Son, one born but is touched by the Devil at the time of his birth, and the child makes a loud noise from the touch." 
When or where the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was first taught is quite unknown. Perrene says that some writers have ascribed its origin to France, and he himself is of opinion that it came from the East, and was recognized in Naples in the ninth century. (Blunt's Dictionary of Doctrinal and Historical Theology, in loco.) 
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was finally imposed as an Article of Faith in the Romish Church by Pius IX., Dec. 8th, 1854"
'ello 'ello 'ello -wots goin' on 'ere then? muslims believe in the immaculate conception of the blessed virgin mary??  only mary and her Son were not touched by the devil at the time of birth? sounds like an affirmation of original sin as well
well well well - life is full of surprises.....

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fredifreeloader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 456	Topic: immaculate conception/original sin Posted: 12 April 2006 at 10:29am
	"IMMACULATE CONCEPTION of the Virgin Mary. This doctrine was asserted by Muhammad (Mishkat, book i. ch. iii. pt. 1). The Prophet said, "There is not of the sons of Adam, except Mary and her Son, one born but is touched by the Devil at the time of his birth, and the child makes a loud noise from the touch." When or where the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was first taught is quite unknown. Perrene says that some writers have ascribed its origin to France, and he himself is of opinion that it came from the East, and was recognized in Naples in the ninth century. (Blunt's Dictionary of Doctrinal and Historical Theology, in loco.) The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was finally imposed as an Article of Faith in the Romish Church by Pius IX., Dec. 8th, 1854" 'ello 'ello 'ello -wots goin' on 'ere then? muslims believe in the immaculate conception of the blessed virgin mary?? only mary and her Son were not touched by the devil at the time of birth? sounds like an affirmation of original sin as well well well well - life is full of surprises.....
	for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16

Meng Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 11 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 37	Posted: 12 April 2006 at 11:31am
	The doctine of the Immaculate Conception is NOT dealing with the Virgin Birth. The doctrine teaches that when Mary was conceived in the womb of HER mother, no original sin was transmitted to her, nor did she ever commit an actual sin in her life. This doctrine was promulgated by the Roman Catholic Church, and is not believed by Eastern Orthodox or Protestant Churches. The doctrine of the Virgin Birth is this: Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Godhead, was conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary, begotten by the power of the Holy Spirit. Mary was a Virgin at the time of this conception - no sexual act was involved. All Christian churches believe in the doctrine of the Virgin Birth/Conception of Christ. It is one of the core doctrines of Christianity, and to deny it is to deny the faith.
	I believe in Jesus

fredifreeloader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 456	Posted: 12 April 2006 at 12:09pm
	yes *meng, i know* its not. i have not suggested that the immaculate conception is the virgin birth - it is rather connected with original sin
	for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16

Meng Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 11 April 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 37	Posted: 12 April 2006 at 12:50pm
	So, your point is that Muslims agree with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, right?
	I believe in Jesus

fredifreeloader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 456	Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:45pm
	well i posted the thing to find out, *meng, i mean from the reference given it looks* like it, but who knows?
	for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16

fredifreeloader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 456	Posted: 13 April 2006 at 12:35pm
	i was actually more interested in this "touching by the devil" referred to. in saying that only mary and her son were not touched by the devil at birth, is he saying that everyone else is tainted or spoiled by satan at birth, and therefore made prone to sin? if so, it sounds very much like original sin to me. if this is not what it means, then what is the point of the exemption of mary and jesus?
	for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16