Guarding

I wrote this in January 2004 I don't know what for than forgotten.---

36  Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.
37  And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.
38  Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
39  And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
40  And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
41  Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
42  He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying,
O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
43  And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.
44  And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.
45  Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
46  Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.
47  And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.
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And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers. (4:102.)

Then when you have finished the prayer, remember Allah standing and sitting and reclining; but when you are secure (from danger) keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers (4:103.)

you know this sly,slippy little thread has escaped my attention for too long.  i shall come back to it tomorrow after my work

Alibaba wrote: bmzp, don't you know that Jesus said that the Son of Man came to give His life a ransom for many?� Of course He was arrested - this was according to God's will, and nothing happens apart from God's will, does it?

This is NOT my understanding.

It is my understanding that the RESURRECTION was Almighty God's Will,
and Almighty God showing clearly His Might & Main. It was Almighty God
rescuing the Messiah's Lifeswork from Satan's attack.

But the BETRAYAL was a victory for Satan.

And a FAILURE of mankind -- mankind did not guard their Messiah, sent
unto them by Almighty God. They were soft. They were weak. They
didn't guard their Messiah. And that allowed the Bad Guy to exploit their
laxity.

Almighty God would not send a Messiah only to be murdered. Nor would
Almighty God prepare His people (Israel) for a thousand years to RECEIVE
their Messiah if there was no need for them to do so. The Judeans were
not FORCED to betray their Messiah -- they had FREE WILL, and are
therefore RESPONSIBLE for their CHOICE. This is made clear by Matthew
27:15-25, wheren Pilate offers to release Barabbas in his prisoner's stead
(l.17), and Pilate drags his feet on account of his wife's dream (l.19), until
at last the Temple Priests & Elders "persuaded" the poor Jews to murder
their Messiah (l.20). The elements of FREE WILL and CHOICE --
although under influences from the infernal Sadducees (who probably
bribed the poor Jews, a terrible shame & tragedy because the Sadducees
had been brutally taxing the poor Jews in the first place (Mark 7:13),
so that the poor Jews were paid off with their own money! -- are
clearly present.

The Judeans COULD have ACCEPTED their Messiah. Recall:

Isaiah 9:6 (Darby)
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government
shall be upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful,
Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.


Also recall that Judas Iscariot has been forever cursed for his choice.
Judas Iscariot wound up hung on a tree (Matthew 27:5, Acts 1:18), which
makes him "cursed of God" (Deuteronomy 21:23).

Please understand the importance of this distinction:

IF the Messiah was COMPELLED to be murdered...
THEN Judas Iscariot did RIGHT in betraying him
AND the Messiah's Apostles did RIGHT in sleeping on duty in the Garden
of Gethsemane

BUT the Messiah clearly twice told his followers to stand guard (Matthew
26:38, 41).

The Betrayal of the Messiah was a result of TREACHERY and LAXITY. Is
Almighty God honoured by TREACHERY AND LAXITY?

To say yes is to join the Gnostic "Cainites" sect, whose "Gospel" was the
infamous "Gospel of Judas" that has been prominently promoted in the
news of late. The "Cainites" worshipped Cain, the Sodomites and
Gemorrahites, and all the other despicable traitors in the OT. And they
revered the Betrayer Judas. Why? Because they said, exactly as above,
that Judas Iscariot did RIGHT by the Messiah by betraying him! They said
that Judas was an "enabler" who "stepped up" and did what nobody else
was "willing and able to do", and that only by helping murder the
Messiah his Lord did Judas Iscariot "enable" the Resurrection to take
place.

Therefore, IF you say that the murdering of the Messiah was NECESSARY...

THEN you are a Cainite.

PERIOD.


Otherwise, you MUST hold that the Betrayal of the Messiah was WRONG,
EVIL, BAD, TERRIBLE, WOEFUL...

that Judas Iscariot was WRONG, EVIL, BAD, TERRIBLE, WOEFUL...

that the Apostles sleeping on duty was WRONG, EVIL, BAD, TERRIBLE,
WOEFUL -- which is why they so rued their failures! (Matt 26:75,
John 21:7 x Luke 5:8)


Just quick COMMON SENSE question:

IF the Judaeans had accepted their Messiah, and put the "government on
his shoulders"...

THEN wouldn't the world be a BETTER place?

Would you tell me that REJECTION OF THE MESSIAH is in ANYWAY SHAPE
OR FORM GOOD??


That's what the CAINITES said man, that's what the CAINITES said...

Alibaba wrote: bmzp, don't you know that Jesus said that the Son of Man came to give His life a ransom for many?  Of course He was arrested - this was according to God's will, and nothing happens apart from God's will, does it?

Well according to Fred on another thread it does. In fact, he said that none of this was meant to be.

Interesting Christian take on things, don't you think?

Edited by Mishmish