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The Mediator and the Prophet
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Israfil View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 June 2006 at 9:01am

In the name of God, the merciful and the compassionate

It is proven through doctrine that man cannot withstand the image of God and thus through the ages because God is beyond the limitations of man God uses the closes  entity to man. The philosophers and theologians were right to dissect the hierarchy of "intellects." Which come in this form:

1) God

2) Soul

3) Angel

4) Man

5) Animal

6) Vegatation

Here are several verses which shows that Angels were used in communication with God. Angels being the 3rd of the hierarchy and just about man are perhaps in intellect are the closes thing to man. Although they do not share a physical form in the physical plane then can manipulate themselves in a variety of forms. In the case with the prophet Muhammad Gabriel was in the form of a man. With the case with Moses the Angel was in the form of a an aurora, or like a flame surrounding a bush.

 

God told Moses:

Exodus 3:5-6 (King James Version)

 5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

 6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

The difference between this and the Qur'an is that Moses could not behold the image of God (his true person) whereas in the Bible Moses could behold the image of God through the mediator of an Angel. Thus the following verse here:

And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to Thee, I turn to Thee, and I am the first of the believers.[7.143]

Mary did nbot speak to God but was also in the presence of an Angel who was a mediator between her and her Lord:

  1. [3.45] When the angels said: O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).

 
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Angela View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Israfil Israfil wrote:

It is proven through doctrine that man cannot withstand the image of God and thus through the ages because God is beyond the limitations of man God uses the closes  entity to man.

To say this point is proven is incorrect.  Would provide some links to the philosopher's and theologians?  Perhaps this is one I may engage as the LDS believe God to have a form and not some undefineable essense.
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Angel View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Israfil Israfil wrote:

Although they do not share a physical form in the physical plane then can manipulate themselves in a variety of forms. In the case with the prophet Muhammad Gabriel was in the form of a man. With the case with Moses the Angel was in the form of a an aurora, or like a flame surrounding a bush.

I have read many times, (sorry don't have sources) however you envision angels, that is how they will appear to you, any other way would just alarm or scare you.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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amlhabibi2000 View Drop Down
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Salam Alaikoam

Actually we look at God every day in everything we see and hear.

God is life and life is God.  At least a good part of God and His being.

As we have cells in the body we are cells in the body and being of God.

God moves through us, speaks through us and hears through us.

The work of Allah is in part done through us.

God can exist without us but takes pleasure in His creation and nurturing of Us.

We all contain His Holy breath (Spirit) and this force moves and motivates us given we have the tools and encouragement we need to be the best we can be.

Allah loved the world hence He created us and all beings seen and unseen.

Allah wants us to be His Messengers and Gaurdians of ourselves, others and the world.

To be Excellent Messengers and Gaurdians we need Excellence in Education, Counseling and Consultation.

To be ready for our challenges we need of course Education in the basics, reading, math, science, geography and history.

We also need training and guidance in good communication skills, healthy boundaries, effective conflict resolution skills, parenting skills, relationship skills and how to cope with stress and frustrations.

We need counseling when we have challenges or difficulties with relationships, communication or Mental Health issues.

We need consultation avenues so when the community wants to create or renew a service our voice can be heard and considered in the planning stages and implimentation stages.  Also when we have certain kinds of challenges we need community services/agencies/infra structures to consult with in ways to resolve our challenges that give grace and dignity to everyone.

That is why I believe we need an Inter Faith Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad (The word Jihad means struggle and the first and most important level of Jihad is the inner Jihad or the struggle we have with ourselves to be the best person we can be as well as Education, Training so we can provide for ourselves and our families)

Allah does not exist in isloation we are part of Him and that is why we need to respect one another more carefully.

Of course these are my beliefs and opinions.

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi
Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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DavidC View Drop Down
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In the Bible God spoke to directly to Moses.

Exodus 33:11
Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend.
Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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BMZ View Drop Down
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Yes, David

"In the Bible God spoke to directly to Moses."

That is correct. Qur'aan too verifies that by saying God revealed to Prophets, spoke with them through Gabriel but with Moses, God spoke direct.

BMZ
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Mishmish View Drop Down
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Assalamu Alaikum:

Also, this hierarchy can not be correct as Allah told the angels to bow to Adam. Adam had knowledge which they did not have. At this time, Adam was in the presence of Allah in Paradise.

Where are the Jinn in this hierarchy?

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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BMZ View Drop Down
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Points: 1852 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2006 at 4:21am

Wa Alaikum Assalaam, Mishmish

Your question: "Where are the Jinns in this hierarchy?"

I think they held positon no.4 prior to the creation of man in the list provided by Israfil and man pushed them down to no.5., sending animals and vegetation to 6th and 7th place.

However, it was only Satan, the Chief or "Adam" of the Jinns (spirits, possibly) who disobeyed God Almighty. Satan must have taken along with him lots of other rebellious Jinns. Just my thoughts.

BMZ

 

 
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