BMZ: Sacrifice of animals for sins

Annie,

Muslims do sacrifise animals for forgiveness of unintentionally committed mistakes or sin. We are not commanded to do that and it is not a pillar of Faith. You are right in thinking what you thought. For us God is very Forgiving. That is true. What made you think it wasn't true. It was not ordained upon us like it was oradined upon Jews.

We are commanded to sacrifise animals once a year to commemorate Abraham's sacrice and that is held in Hajj.

For the other cases, let me show you by an example:

I went a few times for Umrah and I thought I had made a mistake during Umrah but I wasn't sure. To me, a mistake of that sort is a sin. Having that doubt in my mind, I sacrifised an innocent lamb in the name of Allah and gave the meat to an orphange. I did that to seek pleasure of God Almighty. Would you call that a sin?

If I were to commit a grave sin, the forbidden sin, everyday and kept on scarifising an animal after each occasion, that would be ridiculous, don't you think so?

Some people who are ill, sacrifise an animal in the name of God Almighty. Some who have achieved success, do that too and the idea is to help the poor and the needy, which God Almighty wants us to do and we do by scarifising animals.

We don't sprinkle their blood on any door or table or an altar!

AnnieTwo wrote: Annie wrote: "If you believe the Law still stands, then why don't Muslims offer sacrifices for forgiveness of sins?" BMZ wrote: We do that, Annie and we feed all the meat to the poor and needy or the starving ones. It is not the blood or flesh of the animals that reaches God Almighty. It is the obedience to God and God's Law that matters most. For us the law stands. Muslims sacrifice animals for forgiveness of sins?

there is animal sacrifice in Islam. Yes. Your question is a complex question in that it has as its bases an assumption founded, in this case, in ignorance of how sin and expiation work in a larger "Abrahimic" world view, and not the narrow world view of Church theology that you are erroneously trying to superimpose onto Islam.

To say that some action is the cause to be forgiven or to enter heaven would be to say that there is another equal to Gd. Gd alone is the cause for our sins to be forgiven. He has provided macnanisms that have seen and unseen benefits which also allow us to atone for mistakes. In the end, Gd is the cause for those mistakes to be forgiven.

Annie2 wrote: I thought the only thing the Muslims needed to do besides believing in Allah and Muhammad plus the rituals, praying 5 times per day, etc., was to ask for forgiveness and God would give it.  You are saying that isn't true?

An animal sacrifice is simply an act, as is using the tongue for sincere repentance, or making wudu and salat, as is believing, all take action. They all have their appropriate places in the path that Gd has commanded, no different than in theory, theolgoy, and principle with other prophets of the past.

It is amazing given all of the knoweldge you have about Islam from the scholars you have studied with, and yet you bury such unfounded, and highly ignorant assumptions in your questions. (ignorant is not a deragatory term, as we are all ignorant of something)

Annie2 wrote: I am aware of the animal sacrifices during one of your festivals and that you give the meat to the poor, but I was not aware that Muslims sacrifice animals as atonement for sins.  Do you sprinkle the blood on an altar like the Jewish law says?

An animal sacrifice where the meat is given to the poor can be an act of charity all year round. And no, no alter is required, since we are not sacrificing the animals per Torah requirements.

Was the blood of Jesus sprinkled on a stone alter? Since he was a sacrifice that is supposed to be a part of the Hebrew Scriptures, a forshadow of the time Gd would kill Himself to be a perfect sacrifice for Himself so He could forgive man of sins that started with Adam.

Annie2 wrote: Can you explain further about Muslims sacrificing animals for the forgiveness of sins? Thank you. Annie

You imply disparity where none exists. Sacrificing does not work off of any different mechanics than other forms of seeking atoement. It is Gd who asks for the act, and Gd who forgives. Nothing magical or special. like magical "Jesus divinity blood" which has some unearthly properties to free man, or something like that. It is simply an act with other acts prescribed by Gd.

Annie,

From you: "I can find nothing on the Internet that supports your claim and no Muslim that agrees with your position that Muslims sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of sins and that the OT law still stands for Muslims in this regard.

Instead of browsing and wasting your precious time on Internet, please make a visit to the nearest Islamic centre or a mosque, there are plenty in the US. Meet real Muslims in person., you will learn more. Do like I do. I sit with real Christians in person and discuss. Don't visit Ali Sina or answering-Islamdot type services or other anti-Islam polemic sites as you will not learn.

Also, remember that you can never learn anything about Islam from the so-called "Ex-Muslims".  

From you, Annie: Was your sacrifice because you believed that in making that animal sacrifice you would be forgiven of your sins?  Or did you do that to "seek pleasure" from God because you gave the meat to an orphanage which would be "good works" and you hoped that would "cover" your sins?   In other words, were you hoping to please Allah with good works to offset your sin; thus, making him in your debt?

God Almighty forgives when you repent sincerely. I think, if I am not mistaken, Jesus also said something like that, ordering people TO REPENT. Well, if God can cover sins and forgive, do you see anything wrong in that? All good works and good deeds come under righteousness. God is not human that anyone can make God in debts. Pleasing God with service in God's cause certainly earns one God's pleasure. Seek God's pleasure in any way you can, even be it spending all your material wealth in Charitable deeds.

From you, Annie:There are many ways to help the poor and needy without killing animals.  Do Muslims kill the animals for forgiveness of sins?

A sacrifice is an honourable word and is different from killing. Sacrifising animals and feeding to poor and the starving ones is also one of the better ways. I have already explained. But it is better not to burn the offering till it is reduced to charcoal and a burnt offering is of no use either to God or poor people. So, don't kill and burn the animals.

From you, Annie: But you said the law still stands.  The law about sacrificing animals and other sacrifices is very exact.  You can find the procedure in the Old Testament and Muslims do not follow it so Muslims are disobeying the law so the law does not still stand for the Muslims.

The good thing is that Muslims made some fine improvements. Instead of burning the offering till it was totally burnt, the Muslims fed it to the poor. In Isalm, the procedure was refined.

Question Time: Why did Yahweh (YHVH) ask the people long before the Jews and also the Jews to burn the offering so badly that it would go to waste? What was the great significance of spilling the poor animal's blood on an Altar? Do you know why did Cain kill Abel?  

AnnieTwo wrote: BMZ, Muslims do not sacrifice animals for forgiveness of sins.  There is nothing on the Internet from any Islamic site that says so.

Sure they do. After an incident, I paid for someone to sacrifice a goat, and the meat was given to the poor.

I also had other choices. I liked the sacrifice idea because there was food afterward.

Once again, you are trying to superimpose your erroneous views on the temple sacrifical system onto Islam. The problem rests with your ignorance on the nature of the system and the nature of sin according to the Hebrew Scriptures.

Annie2 wrote: Charity is fine but that is not the subject.

Actually it is. Once more you imply disparity where it does not exist. Charity is also a form of sin atonement.

Annie2 wrote: We do not do "things" charity or otherwise to please God in order to made Him in our debt.  God owes us nothing; we owe Him everything.

Pleasing Gd is commanded in the Hebrew Bible. Pleasing Gd is not having Gd owe us. This erroneous view of your, in contrast to your theological view that Gd owes HImself a perfect sacrifice so He can forgive man of sin, provides a great deal of insight of just how far your desire to believe will go to save your faith. Your view also provides a partner to Gd. Gd alone forgives, not any mechanisms of an action He has commanded. The causer is not the same as the commanded action.

We owe Him everything, including following out His commands, which we are capable of doing, regardless of the excuse the church has given you to make up man made laws to suit your beliefs.

Annie2 wrote: Can you produce one Islamic site where it says that Muslims sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of sins?  The Law is very specific in how these sacrifices were to be carried out.  So far I do not see that Muslims are obeying the law.

I cannot provide an Islamic website that tells us that eating pizza will provide you with nutrients within the context of Islamic thought. Your request is a non sequitur.

So now you are able to give a a halacha on Lewish laws!? Incredible Annie2. So you are some what of a scholar. You have studied Islam and Judiasm and Christianity. Quite an expert.

Please, could you give me a halacha on this? I have always been curious. If a man steals, what is the establsihed method for him to recieve expiation if the tempe were present? (this is actually an easy one, and I am hoping you do some homework on this so I can bring up another point)

Lastly, animal sacrifice done by Noah was not as the Torah has presribed. Your claim to knoweldge of Torah law seems to be lacking. Animal sacrifice in Islam is not prescribed by the Torah, though animal sacrifice exists in Islam. You are treading on the fallacy of equivication.