Discussion on Qu�ran re: Pope, deleted

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The forum moderators have deleted this post once already and members continue to avoid dicussing these three passages. Why?
There are ample examples of violent acts found in the Qur�an.  I�ll name just three.
First off, us unbeliever�s are not popular, as found in sura 9:5 which says, "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay those who join other gods with Allah wherever you find them; besiege them, seize them, lay in wait for them with every kind of ambush...".  I really hate how the Qur�an separates its followers from the non believers, why is this needed? Please help me understand this!
Sura 47:4 says, "When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them...".  Sure, give me grief for taking this out of context, but the last god I meet said he co-workers would say none the such J 
In sura 5:33 the Qur'an orders those who fight Allah and his messenger to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off; or they can be expelled out of the land.  
If this thread continues, I can find 100 more. Surely if someone talked to god, god would not have so many violent things to say. Discuss?
Fogtrik

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fogtrik Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 11 August 2006 Status: Offline Points: 53	Post Options Post Reply Quote fogtrik Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Discussion on Qu�ran re: Pope, deleted Posted: 21 September 2006 at 8:41am
	The forum moderators have deleted this post once already and members continue to avoid dicussing these three passages. Why? There are ample examples of violent acts found in the Qur�an. I�ll name just three. First off, us unbeliever�s are not popular, as found in sura 9:5 which says, "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay those who join other gods with Allah wherever you find them; besiege them, seize them, lay in wait for them with every kind of ambush...". I really hate how the Qur�an separates its followers from the non believers, why is this needed? Please help me understand this! Sura 47:4 says, "When you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads, until ye have made a great slaughter among them...". Sure, give me grief for taking this out of context, but the last god I meet said he co-workers would say none the such J In sura 5:33 the Qur'an orders those who fight Allah and his messenger to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off; or they can be expelled out of the land. If this thread continues, I can find 100 more. Surely if someone talked to god, god would not have so many violent things to say. Discuss? Fogtrik
	Religion is a virus of the mind.

Fidel Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 21 September 2006 Status: Offline Points: 19	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fidel Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 September 2006 at 11:28am
	Fogtrik, firstly, striking off their heads isn't "violent", as, if Allah wants it done, then it is a holy act. (Who are we to know what qualifies as violent? Surely only Allah does!) Secondly, I feel you are insinuating that this is "coercive", however, this is not the case, as the unbelievers will never worship Allah and so more than deserve their punishment. Muhammad (PBUH) listened to Allah's words via the angel Gabriel, not directly. (We can be fully confident that the Angel spoke correctly Allah's words and Muhammad heard everything correctly). Allah is supreme and transcendent, we cannot hope to understand: if Allah says today "this is violent", then it is and if Allah says tomorrow "this is no longer violent!", then it isn't any longer violent. Do you understand, my friend, or is your mind so darkened that you fail to see? Here you say, Allah speaks of peace, there you say Allah speaks of war. I see no contradiction, as Allah is not held back by our human expectations. Edited by Fidel

umadam Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 19 September 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote umadam Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 September 2006 at 11:45am
	I think you need to understand what's in the quran and stop focusing on the paragraph that you just sited, because i'm sure there are reasons and answers to them. After all Islam is the best religion for it's organisation, rights... Stop the whispers of satan

Angela Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555	Post Options Post Reply Quote Angela Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 September 2006 at 11:51am
	Fidel, Umadam, Fogtrik is an atheist. He doesn't care about the truth, he just cares about causing discord. Personal suggestion, ignore him. He's not worth the contentions he brings.

fogtrik Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 11 August 2006 Status: Offline Points: 53	Post Options Post Reply Quote fogtrik Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 September 2006 at 12:31pm
	Angela, You can't discuss the passages because they are evil and inhuman!
	Religion is a virus of the mind.

Whisper Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752	Post Options Post Reply Quote Whisper Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 September 2006 at 11:47pm
	Fidel, Umadam, Fogtrik is an atheist. He doesn't care about the truth, he just cares about causing discord. Personal suggestion, ignore him. He's not worth the contentions he brings. Words of wisdom and truth from someone we all grow to trust, respect and love.

Whisper Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752	Post Options Post Reply Quote Whisper Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 September 2006 at 11:51pm
	Just look at even his screen name! At least he is honest to call himself a Trick. I am a secular, I know brothers and sisters, they say in English "never cast thy pearls to the swine"

MOCKBA Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 27 September 2000 Location: Malaysia Status: Offline Points: 1410	Post Options Post Reply Quote MOCKBA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 22 September 2006 at 12:21am
	Bismillah If you were to comment on a chicken soup based on a single vegetable ingredient like ginger taken out for tasting, you wouldn't be getting the true experience of having chicken stew, would you? Rather spit out the bitterness... No verses of the Qur'an are to be taken out of their context. There are verses that indicate on permission to consume carrion but if conveniently taken out of context, the way you did, would draw a completely distorted view of Muslims as carrion-eating lot. The same goes with "violence"...
	MOCKBA