IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Religion - Islam > Interfaith Dialogue
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - the origin of solace  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

the origin of solace

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
islaah-salaam View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 15 November 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islaah-salaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: the origin of solace
    Posted: 16 November 2006 at 6:31am

 

Holy Qur�an

15. Al-Hijr

 

1. Alif-L�m-R�.

These are the Verses of the Book, and a plain Qur'�n.

2. Perhaps will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims

[This will be on the Day of Resurrection when they will see

 the disbelievers going to Hell and the Muslims going to Paradise].

3. Leave them to eat and enjoy, and let them be preoccupied with (false) hope.

They will come to know!

4. And never did We destroy a township but there was a known decree for it.

5. No nation can anticipate its term, nor delay it.

 

 

Gospel

John: 14

 

16: And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;

 

 

 

I would like to know your views with regards to - false hope.

 

Muslim�s view the Comforter mentioned above as Muhammad {SAW}, whereas those Christian�s whom believe in the Trinity, perceive the Comforter to be the �Holy Ghost�.

 

I am interested in your comments because I perceive that people gain solace when they turn to God/Allah. My problem with this issue is that on the one-hand there are those whom do not believe in God/Allah, and perceive Him to be naught but a fanciful creation of mankind. On the other hand there are those whom believe in and gain solace from Religion, even when that Religion has acquired many �discrepancies� via cultural influences etc (one of the reasons why some believe God/Allah to be naught but a creation of mankind).

 

 

It is in this context that I ask are people gaining solace within a delusional state of mind? 

    



Edited by islaah-salaam
Back to Top
Angel View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 6641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2006 at 8:38am
Originally posted by islaah-salaam islaah-salaam wrote:

 

Holy Qur�an

15. Al-Hijr

 

1. Alif-L�m-R�.

These are the Verses of the Book, and a plain Qur'�n.

2. Perhaps will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims

[This will be on the Day of Resurrection when they will see

 the disbelievers going to Hell and the Muslims going to Paradise].

3. Leave them to eat and enjoy, and let them be preoccupied with (false) hope.

They will come to know!

4. And never did We destroy a township but there was a known decree for it.

5. No nation can anticipate its term, nor delay it.

 

 

Gospel

John: 14

 

16: And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever;

 

 

 

I would like to know your views with regards to - false hope.

 

Muslim�s view the Comforter mentioned above as Muhammad {SAW}, whereas those Christian�s whom believe in the Trinity, perceive the Comforter to be the �Holy Ghost�.

 

I haven't been in much discussions regarding this comforter or counselor but seeing the verse you brought, and looking at it a bit more, I would say that the comforter is the Holy Spirit, not Muhammed. The Holy Spirit is with you forever.

And second, some verses down it actually mentions who the comforter/counselor is, which is the Holy Spirit:

 

14:26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.

http://ebible.org/bible/web/John.htm#C14V16

 

 

14:26 But the aComforter, which is the bHoly Ghost, whom the Father will send in my cname, he shall dteach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/14/16#16

 

15: 26 But when the aComforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall btestify of me:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/15/26#26

 

 

According to this verse above, which is in John 15 not 14, the words, "sent to you from the father, in my knowledge is the Holy Spirit (as it pretty much proclaims)

 

 

Quote I am interested in your comments because I perceive that people gain solace when they turn to God/Allah. My problem with this issue is that on the one-hand there are those whom do not believe in God/Allah, and perceive Him to be naught but a fanciful creation of mankind. On the other hand there are those whom believe in and gain solace from Religion, even when that Religion has acquired many �discrepancies� via cultural influences etc (one of the reasons why some believe God/Allah to be naught but a creation of mankind).

 

 

It is in this context that I ask are people gaining solace within a delusional state of mind? 

    

You speak about people gaining solace through didn't ways (which I don't see as entirely wrong) and it wouldn't be wrong to say that some people maybe gaining solace with a delusional state of mind. The problem I see is defining this delusional state of mind, I mean what is it for you?



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
Back to Top
islaah-salaam View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 15 November 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islaah-salaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2006 at 11:13am

 

Thank you for your reply Angel,

 

 

You have raised the exact issue I wished to discuss, which is namely that we continue to learn (if we are sincere) about God/Allah till the day we die, and it is in this context that I am able to proclaim � In the past I gained solace from an ignorant state of mind (ignorance is bliss, as they say), and considering that I intend to continue learning (Insha Allah), I am able to proclaim � I am currently gaining solace from an ignorant state of mind.

 

 

Indeed the problem is in defining the delusional state of mind, as a person whom has learnt about many states of thought, I would currently say, the most delusional are those whose pride has prevented them from learning about anyone else�s state of mind.

 

What do you think? 

 

 

Back to Top
Angel View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 6641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 November 2006 at 7:15pm
Quote the most delusional are those whose pride has prevented them from learning about anyone else�s state of mind.

 

What do you think? 

 

I would somewhat agree but I don't know about "most".  

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
Back to Top
islaah-salaam View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 15 November 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islaah-salaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2006 at 11:07am

Thanks Angel

 

 

Maybe you would like to offer a more detailed explanation.

 

Please allow me to expand upon my previous comments; I stated that �the most delusional are those whose pride has prevented them from learning about anyone else�s state of mind�, because if you have never known anything other than your own �processes of thought�, how are you able to know how delusional those processes are? After all you will have never wondered outside those processes and hence will know of no other �state of mind� to compare them with?

 

 

I have some interesting comments (well, they are interesting to me anyway) to make about the passages (from the bible) you have mentioned, but do not have the opportunity to currently discuss�..

 



Edited by islaah-salaam
Back to Top
Angel View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 6641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 November 2006 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by islaah-salaam islaah-salaam wrote:

 

because if you have never known anything other than your own �processes of thought�, how are you able to know how delusional those processes are? 

 

or if your are delusional at all

You do have an excellent point.

 

Quote After all you will have never wondered outside those processes and hence will know of no other �state of mind� to compare them with?

 

yep

 

 

Quote I have some interesting comments (well, they are interesting to me anyway) to make about the passages (from the bible) you have mentioned, but do not have the opportunity to currently discuss�..

when you are able to.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
Back to Top
islaah-salaam View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 15 November 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islaah-salaam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2006 at 4:06am

Peace be upon you Angel,

 

 

To be honest with you I no longer wish to reveal what I initially intended to do so, for I am fed up with been a guinea pig for those whom only know how to manipulate. The truth is the religion we see in these days is nought but the oppression of the poor by a so-called elite.

 

Islam in Jordan is the word of king abdullah, Islam in Afghanistan is the word of hamid khazi, Islam in Saudi Arabia is the word of ��. I think you get the picture.

 

 

 

Back to Top
Angel View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 6641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2006 at 4:25am

ok 

I probably wouldn't have been much in discussion anyway, but I would have listened (well, read) what your thoughts were.



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.