Cosmology in the Quran

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   Salam Alaikum dear brothers and sisters,

I am new here, and would like to talk about Quran with people who love it as much as I do, and share with you why I came to wonder if the Quran gave hints towards the actual shape of the earth, and some other points as well. At first a video on youtube inspired me from a scientific point of view, but the Quran is what I feel has hardly ever been discussed. If anybody knows of any references or earlier studies by scholars on the topic, please let me know. Here are a few questions that are based on my person studies of the Quran:

The Quranic hints that are leaning towards a flat earth theory:

1 - In the Quran the sun, moon and stars are somehow grouped together as being "between" heavens and earth. Heaven and earth are complimentary and in one category (38:66), while they are not treated as heavenly objects, such as sun, moon and stars. (ex. 7:3, 22:18)

2. If Sun and Stars are the same thing, then why would Allah make a Chapter called Chapter / Sura of the Sun and a separate one called Sura of the Star?

3. According to the Quran heavenly bodies such as Sun, Moon and Stars are mobile and moving, while the heavens and earth are never explained this way. The Sun, Moon and Stars are described as running, floating, rising and declining for instance. Earth and heaven not. (ex. 14:33, 18:86, 18:90, 31:29)

4. Earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29), and what is interesting is that the "lamps" that are commonly understood as heavenly bodies such as stars are supposedly only present in the most earthly level of heaven, also known as the first layer out of 7. (67:5, 41:12). The sun, moon and stars are clearly described as being in the heavens and earth (ex. 22:18)

5. Then there is that description, actually descriptions that show us that Allah uses terms that can only be understood with flat, non-spherical shapes:

earth spread (ex 13:3)

earth spread Arabic term #2 (ex 51:48)

earth spread Arabic term #3 (ex 71:19)

regardless of the countless translators of these words, they are always either related to spreading, or more resonating with horizontal 'like carpet' expansion.

6. The mountains are described as stabilizers, or pegs that stop the earth from shaking. (ex 31:10) To me personally i see this not applicable on a spherical earth, as those pegs would not really stop it from moving, other than let's say a carpet.

7. Interesting analysis of Quran verses concerning earth. The Jannah or promised paradise is said to be the same size as heavens and earth (3:133). And the heavens and earth are said to become replaced with a new heavens and earth (14:49). To me it means that Paradise will be simply a replaced heavens and earth, or an improved one. And at that time, we will have the whole of creations as our playground in peace and harmony. in sha Allah. And that means that the resurrection is in the same location as here, with a renewed earth (30:25). There is no indication that there are two parallel earths somewhere from the quran anyway. Correct me if i'm wrong.

8. Also notice that every time Allah mentions Heavens and earth, we have earth singular and heavens plural. There is no talk about earths. And again, as mentioned before, according to Quran the earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29).

From the above we can conclude that the way all translators of the world understand and interpret the Quran, we have earth as not spherical, rather immobile, while heavenly bodies such as Moon, Sun and stars are moving and "between" the heavens and earth. 

We can be sure (unless you prove me wrong, which i would appreciate), that in the Quran there is no evidence of a round world, but quite the opposite. Nor that the sun and stars are the same thing. Or that we are a tiny little ball that is going around a medium sized sun/star, which is one of 70 trillion stars in a galaxy of 70 trillion galaxies of a universe. Rather, there is only talk of one earth, that is spread out and vast, that will one day be crushed and replaced. And that we will be resurrected here on that new earth, under a new heavens. 

Please, if you have any hadiths about this let me know

I know that people who talk about the idea of a flat earth are often perceived as crazy, but my intention here is not to preach about how flat the earth is, rather i am here to discuss ideas and point of views to further understand the meaning of ayat in the way of Allah. Please feel free to respond to only one or several questions. No need to address all of them at once.

Many thanks,

peace upon you

Fi Aman ilah

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peace seeker Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Starter. Male Joined: 09 December 2016 Location: Egypt Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote peace seeker Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Cosmology in the Quran Posted: 09 December 2016 at 8:17am
	Salam Alaikum dear brothers and sisters, I am new here, and would like to talk about Quran with people who love it as much as I do, and share with you why I came to wonder if the Quran gave hints towards the actual shape of the earth, and some other points as well. At first a video on youtube inspired me from a scientific point of view, but the Quran is what I feel has hardly ever been discussed. If anybody knows of any references or earlier studies by scholars on the topic, please let me know. Here are a few questions that are based on my person studies of the Quran: The Quranic hints that are leaning towards a flat earth theory: 1 - In the Quran the sun, moon and stars are somehow grouped together as being "between" heavens and earth. Heaven and earth are complimentary and in one category (38:66), while they are not treated as heavenly objects, such as sun, moon and stars. (ex. 7:3, 22:18) 2. If Sun and Stars are the same thing, then why would Allah make a Chapter called Chapter / Sura of the Sun and a separate one called Sura of the Star? 3. According to the Quran heavenly bodies such as Sun, Moon and Stars are mobile and moving, while the heavens and earth are never explained this way. The Sun, Moon and Stars are described as running, floating, rising and declining for instance. Earth and heaven not. (ex. 14:33, 18:86, 18:90, 31:29) 4. Earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29), and what is interesting is that the "lamps" that are commonly understood as heavenly bodies such as stars are supposedly only present in the most earthly level of heaven, also known as the first layer out of 7. (67:5, 41:12). The sun, moon and stars are clearly described as being in the heavens and earth (ex. 22:18) 5. Then there is that description, actually descriptions that show us that Allah uses terms that can only be understood with flat, non-spherical shapes: earth spread (ex 13:3) earth spread Arabic term #2 (ex 51:48) earth spread Arabic term #3 (ex 71:19) regardless of the countless translators of these words, they are always either related to spreading, or more resonating with horizontal 'like carpet' expansion. 6. The mountains are described as stabilizers, or pegs that stop the earth from shaking. (ex 31:10) To me personally i see this not applicable on a spherical earth, as those pegs would not really stop it from moving, other than let's say a carpet. 7. Interesting analysis of Quran verses concerning earth. The Jannah or promised paradise is said to be the same size as heavens and earth (3:133). And the heavens and earth are said to become replaced with a new heavens and earth (14:49). To me it means that Paradise will be simply a replaced heavens and earth, or an improved one. And at that time, we will have the whole of creations as our playground in peace and harmony. in sha Allah. And that means that the resurrection is in the same location as here, with a renewed earth (30:25). There is no indication that there are two parallel earths somewhere from the quran anyway. Correct me if i'm wrong. 8. Also notice that every time Allah mentions Heavens and earth, we have earth singular and heavens plural. There is no talk about earths. And again, as mentioned before, according to Quran the earth was created before the 7 heavens (2:29). From the above we can conclude that the way all translators of the world understand and interpret the Quran, we have earth as not spherical, rather immobile, while heavenly bodies such as Moon, Sun and stars are moving and "between" the heavens and earth. We can be sure (unless you prove me wrong, which i would appreciate), that in the Quran there is no evidence of a round world, but quite the opposite. Nor that the sun and stars are the same thing. Or that we are a tiny little ball that is going around a medium sized sun/star, which is one of 70 trillion stars in a galaxy of 70 trillion galaxies of a universe. Rather, there is only talk of one earth, that is spread out and vast, that will one day be crushed and replaced. And that we will be resurrected here on that new earth, under a new heavens. Please, if you have any hadiths about this let me know I know that people who talk about the idea of a flat earth are often perceived as crazy, but my intention here is not to preach about how flat the earth is, rather i am here to discuss ideas and point of views to further understand the meaning of ayat in the way of Allah. Please feel free to respond to only one or several questions. No need to address all of them at once. Many thanks, peace upon you Fi Aman ilah

asep48garut60 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Joined: 27 July 2016 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 248	Post Options Post Reply Quote asep48garut60 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 December 2016 at 9:01pm
	Wa�alaikum salaam, In the Quran, Allah does not directly say that the earth is round. This shows that Allah is Wise, and if about 14 centuries ago Allah directly says it like that, then the people at that time would not believe it because it has not been able to see the earth from space, in contrast with today where the science is evolving. That's why Allah gives the Quran to mankind who endowed with reason/wits in order to uncover the phenomena of the universe which is full of mystery, as mentioned in the Quran 55:33, 3:190, 39:9. Such verses show that Allah invites mankind to use their minds. Answers to questions 1 and 2: These verses have the same meaning. the sun, moon and stars are also celestial bodies. Then to distinguish the star that is in our solar system called the sun. The answer to number 3: Indeed, the Quran does not explain that the earth runs such as the sun, moon and stars, but for those who understand the contents of the Quran 36:40, such verse can explained that the earth rotates on its axis and also circulated like the sun, moon and stars. The answer to number 4: The verse indicates that the earth was originally located at the core of a massive explosion, then spread and inflate (Quran 21:30). One of those scientific explanation is contained in a book the work of a scientist named George Gemov entitled "The Creation of the Universe". The sun, earth, moon and stars were between the heavens and the earth, and they are all on the first of heavens that contains everything. The galaxy in which we live is just one among billions of galaxies in the universe, while the science explains that one galaxy has a diameter of about one hundred thousand years to travel light, it can imagine how the vastness of the universe, it's not about the heavens of the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh that are still a mystery. The answer to number 5: As we know that the size comparison between a human with the earth is very different, Allah gives the term of "overlay", and if about 14 centuries ago Allah directly says that the earth is round, then the people at that time wouldn't believe it, because they have not could see the earth from space, in contrast with today where the science has evolving. The answer to number 6: Let's look at the claims of some scientists below. Geologists discovered the fact that the earth's crust is made of adjacent patches called continental plates and mighty mountains float on a sea of molten material and higher-density rocks below the surface. They also discovered that mountains have roots that help them float and keep fastened to the plates of the earth so it will not vibrate. In 1948, the Geologist Van Anglin stated in his book Geo-morphology (at page 27) that was quite understood at this time that there is a root for each mountain below the crust. Geophysicist named Professor Emeritus Frank P. from the United States in his book entitled "Earth," he reveals that mountains have roots deep into the earth so as to resemble pegs, that is an object that penetrate deep into earth so that's looked on outside is always shorter than the length of pegs stabbing into earth. Germany scientist named Alfred Wegener stated that the continents on the Earth's surface are fused at the early days of the earth, but later shifted to a different direction so separate as they move away from each other. The plates are constantly moving, and produce changes in the geography of the earth slowly. And this is one expression of the Quran 27:88 The answer to number 7: These 3 verses are true, and perhaps that humans are different in interpreting it, because it will be proved only by death. About the Jannah that has the same size as the heavens and the earth, but it's not necessarily the same as what we see and imagine now. The answer to number 8: Indeed, in the Quran there is no talk about the earth is plural, but the heavens is plural. Conclusion: Allah created the universe is destined to mankind who endowed with sense/wits, as in His words: Quran 3:190 �Verily in the creation of the heavens and the earth, the alternation of night and day, there are signs (Greatness of Allah) for the people who use sense.� Quran 39:9 �Say: 'Are the same the people who know and the people who do not know? Verily, it's only intelligent people who can receive the lessons.� Wassalaam.