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Women in Islam versus Judeo-christiamity |
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minuteman 
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Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
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 Posted: 30 June 2008 at 2:40pm |
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This is where the Sunnah (practice) of the holy prophet comes into play. The prophet translated the book (Quran) for us by his practice from the very first day. In his time, we do not see any woman leading the prayers. Otherwise there is no end to the knowledge of the ladies. They have everything, all liberty in all matters.
They can own property. They can marry the man of their choice. They can trade freely and earn and hold property. They have share in inheritance. They can have servants. Let us as muslims remain within limits and not follow the ways of the devil. There is problem on both sides. On the one hand, the women may be demanding the right to lead prayers. On the other hand, the most Muslims have dropped the status of ladies to less than the animals. They take work out of them, make them bear hardships, take away their earnings and do not let them have any freedom. That is bad. Then there are men who would not like their daughters to come out of the house lest somebody see them. But they (men) themselves would go out watching the others ladies. The Muslims need to learn a lot of lesson and they need to return to the real Islam which used to be. |
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Angel
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Joined: 03 July 2001 Status: Offline Points: 6641 |
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Posted: 03 July 2008 at 7:48am |
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what do you mean by this? before I jump down your throat
  sorry can't wait  what is wrong with ladies having endless knowledge? anyway don't we anyway 
no ones talking about following the ways of the devil.
If the choice was there if they choose that path, there would not be any demanding. it simply would be there for those who wish on both sides of the gender.
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 ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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honeto
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Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Posted: 03 July 2008 at 6:53pm |
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Hi,
I guess it all goes back to the one simple fact, man and woman are created equal but with different roles and functions. And I will say it agian, just look at a woman, her body and physical limits, and look than and compare that to that of a man.
Be honest and it will come down to a simple but logical understanding. Once you accept the fact of that differance, it will make sense that some roles and responsibilites and functions suit women while others suit man. And there is nothing wrong to admit that fact. Those who deny that fact are no differant than those who abuse it to their interest.
Even in the least moral practicing societies like USA for example, a man can walk down the street without a shirt, something a woman is not allowed to do. Does that tell you something? It does to me that regardless of our beliefs, the fitra or our "nature" do tell us our limits, if we are guided we are able to make sense of things.
Hasan Edited by honeto - 03 July 2008 at 6:53pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Hayfa
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Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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Posted: 03 July 2008 at 8:50pm |
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Salaams, i am not sure the shirt taking off is quite the example.. for in certain cultures women are bare-breasted and marry as virgins.. this is true in certain African socieites. I could not say they are less or more moral then any other society.
Angel: not sure if you'll get any, but a few Muslims who think that women should lead prayers in mixed congregations. Women, on an intellectual and spiritual level are equal to men in general. Each in the end of is judged by their piety and efforts. I am a very strong believer in women being more ten capable to do most things. Women can be scholars educators, doctors, lawyers and scientist.
The person who leads prayers is not the same as say a priest for example. Priests supposedly can "forgive" sins and such. For the most part, men and women can do almost everything the other does except for a handful of things.
Actually, I was thinking of say if you lead prayers you might have ten rows of men followed by 10 rows of women. And so it would seem as if it all men. And you know.. rarely are women put in charge of an activity like it. The only example I can find is something like the military. Where someone on a day in and day out basis women leading large groups of men.. and what if it is 50 men and two women in the back.
But most Muslims do think women can be scholars, judges etc.. nothing wrong with these things.
I at times do find the gender divide different to deal with. At times I think there are no male Muslims.. lol If you are raised in it, it is not odd. But to me at he masjid it can be odd. Not in prayers but even afterwards or beforehand. Say you have a community dinner.. you might say salaams but not talk much to the men.. which is at times cause the conversations can be interesting.. I do like a good conversation.
It is completely cultural. Like when talking to the Imam he doesn't look at you in the face much.. looks away. And in this cultural it would sgnal dis-interest so I think he is bored..lol
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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minuteman
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Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
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Posted: 04 July 2008 at 10:34am |
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In all these matters, please do not put your own interest above the will of Allah which is manifested in the Quran. And the practical example of the prophet s.a.w.s. That settles the matter for us. Otherwise we could have many problems, such as will the lady lead a mixed prayer party ? Who will be in the first rank (row)? All men or all women? Could they be mixed men and women in the same row?? And so on.
Everything that is said above is good. Women are quite capable. They need knowledge and they are told to seek knowledge. But let us leave it at that. Our religion has practically told us all the right way of living. If we disregard the religion then there will be no end to the wishful thinking.
If we modify the rules and forget the Sunnah of the prophet then we may very soon be having dance parties in the mosques.
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Shasta'sAunt
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Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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Posted: 04 July 2008 at 4:46pm |
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[QUOTE=honeto]Hi,
I guess it all goes back to the one simple fact, man and woman are created equal but with different roles and functions. And I will say it agian, just look at a woman, her body and physical limits, and look than and compare that to that of a man.
Be honest and it will come down to a simple but logical understanding. Once you accept the fact of that differance, it will make sense that some roles and responsibilites and functions suit women while others suit man. And there is nothing wrong to admit that fact. Those who deny that fact are no differant than those who abuse it to their interest.
Even in the least moral practicing societies like USA for example, a man can walk down the street without a shirt, something a woman is not allowed to do. Does that tell you something? It does to me that regardless of our beliefs, the fitra or our "nature" do tell us our limits, if we are guided we are able to make sense of things.
Hasan [/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone has said that men and women are not different. I think what we are saying is that they are equal. Equal does not mean identical. Equal means like in quality, nature, or status. What I have been saying is that nowhere in the Quran does is state that men and women are not equal except where it comes to maintenance which is an obligation from Allah upon men. The Quran clearly states that men and women are like in quality, nature and status and I have posted these Ayats on another thread that is actually discussing this same issue.
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Shasta'sAunt
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Posted: 04 July 2008 at 4:56pm |
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I really don't think the issue here is who will lead the prayers, but rather a basic issue of Muslim men in some cultures believing that women are inferior. Unfortunately culturally some Muslim women belive this also. However, if you look at the Quran this is clearly not the case.
I have no problem with men leading prayers nor have I any desire to lead them myself. I do have a problem being told that because I am a woman I am somehow mentally deficient and inferior to men. There is nothing in Islam that supports this view and I have absolutely no clue how it even became an issue among Muslims.
I have read so many articles trying to explain that Islam does not oppress women, Islam was the first religion to give women their rights, etc... yet the very fact that these articles have to be written to try to convince people this is so means that something is very wrong. If the Ummah were truly treating women the way Allah intended and giving women all of their rights there would be no need for such articles and assurances because it would be a nonissue, it would just be a fact of life.
Instead of trying to convince everyone that Islam does not oppress women, perhaps the Ummah should stop oppressing women and that would solve the problem.
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Shasta'sAunt
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Posted: 04 July 2008 at 5:01pm |
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4:1 O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.
Allah created all of us from a single person, we are of like nature and have mutual rights. There is nothing stated here that men have superiority over women, rather we are the same, equal.
49:13 O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
The only superiority in the sight of Allah is the most righteous. I hope you REALLY grasp what this Ayat is stating.
78:8 And (have We not) created you in pairs,
Created in pairs, of like nature
3:195 And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of Allah, and from His presence is the best of rewards."
4:124 If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them.
Nowhere is it stated that men and women are not held equally responsible. And if women were not equal, then it would be an injustice to hold them equally accountable, but this Ayat makes it clear this is not the case.
33:35 For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise,- for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.
Equal reward...
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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minuteman wrote: