Al-Muraja’at � A Shia Suni Dialog

Al-Muraja�at � A Shia Suni Dialog

I have included below the dates of the letters contained in the translation of the Murajaat as provided by al-islam.org

As it may be noted, if Allamah Al-Musawi was indeed in Beirut while Sheikh Selim Al-Bishri was in Cairo, the dates on almost all these correspondencies are impossible, given that these discussions took place around 1910-1911 C.E. I would like to hear comments from our Shia friends on the dates of these letters, because to me it seems an imagination that the mailing service would be so fast in those days (It is not even so fast today)

Letter 1: 6-11-1329
Letter 2: 6-11-1329
Letter 3: 7-11-1329
Letter 4: 4-11-1329
Letter 5: 9-11-1329
Letter 6: 12-11-1329
Letter 7: 13-11-1329
Letter 8 to 16: 11-1329 (No specific date is given. If someone has the original Arabic text, perhaps the dates are given there).
Letter 17: 3-12-1329
Letter 18: 4-12-1329
Letter 19: 5-12-1329
Letter 20: 9-12-1329
Letter 21: 10-12-1329
Letter 22: 12-1329 (No specific date is given. If someone has the original Arabic text, perhaps the dates are given there).
Letter 23: 14-12-1329
Letter 24: 15-12-1329
Letter 25: 16-12-1329
Letter 26: 17-12-1329
Letter 27: 18-12-1329
Letter 28: 19-12-1329
Letter 29: 20-12-1329
Letter 30: 22-12-1329
Letter 31: 22-12-1329
Letter 32: 24-12-1329
Letter 33: 25-12-1329
Letter 34: 27-12-1329
Letter 35: 27-12-1329
Letter 36: 29-12-1329
Letter 37: 29-12-1329
Letter 38: 29-12-1329
Letter 39: 30-12-1329
Letter 40: 2-1-1330
Letter 41: 3-1-1330
Letter 42: 4-1-1330
Letter 43: 4-1-1330
Letter 44: 5-1-1330
Letter 45: 6-1-1330
Letter 46: 6-1-1330
Letter 47: 7-1-1330
Letter 48: 8-1-1330
Letter 49: 11-1-1330
Letter 50: 13-1-1330
Letter 51: 14-1-1330
Letter 52: 15-1-1330
Letter 53: 16-1-1330
Letter 54: 18-1-1330
Letter 55: 19-1-1330
Letter 56: 22-1-1330
Letter 57: 25-1-1330
Letter 58: 27-1-1330
Letter 59: 28-1-1330
Letter 60: 30-1-1330
Letter 61: 1-2-1330
Letter 62: 2-2-1330
Letter 63: 3-2-1330
Letter 64: 4-2-1330
Letter 65: 5-2-1330
Letter 66: 5-2-1330
Letter 67: 6-2-1330
Letter 68: 9-2-1330
Letter 69: 10-2-1330
Letter 70: 11-2-1330
Letter 71: 10-2-1330
Letter 72: 12-2-1330
Letter 73: 13-2-1330
Letter 74: 14-2-1330
Letter 75: 17-2-1330
Letter 76: 19-2-1330
Letter 77: 20-2-1330
Letter 78: 22-2-1330
Letter 79: 23-2-1330
Letter 80: 24-2-1330
Letter 81: 28-2-1330
Letter 82: 30-2-1330
Letter 83: 2-3-1330
Letter 84: 5-3-1330
Letter 85: 7-3-1330
Letter 86: 8-3-1330
Letter 87: 9-3-1330
Letter 88: 11-3-1330
Letter 89: 14-3-1330
Letter 90: 17-3-1330
Letter 91: 19-3-1330
Letter 92: 22-3-1330
Letter 93: 23-3-1330
Letter 94: 25-3-1330
Letter 95: 26-3-1330
Letter 96: 29-3-1330
Letter 97: 30-3-1330
Letter 98: 11-4-1330
Letter 99: 5-4-1330
Letter 100: 8-4-1330
Letter 101: 10-4-1330
Letter 102: 11-4-1330
Letter 103: 12-4-1330
Letter 104: 15-4-1330
Letter 105: 16-4-1330
Letter 106: 18-4-1330
Letter 107: 19-4-1330
Letter 108: 22-4-1330
Letter 109: 23-4-1330
Letter 110: 29-4-1330
Letter 111: 1-5-1330
Letter 112: 2-5-1330

According to Abdul-Hussain, the debate took place between him and Sheikh Salim al-Bishri, in writing, while he was in Egypt visiting.

But there's a problem with this claim:

1- At the given time, a council for reconciliation (taqreeb) was formed consisting of AhluSunnah scholars and Shi'i scholars, of which Abdul-Hussain was a member of. They held numerous meetings together. yet, in the minutes of those meetings, no mention was ever made in refrence to a written debate taking place between the two.

2- Abdul-Hussain admits in his introduction to the book, that he lost the original documents, which explains why he cannot document a single letter.

3- Abdul-Hussain admits in his introduction to the book, that though the contents of the letter were basically identical to the original, yet the wording of these letters are solely his.

4- Abdul-Hussain admits in his introduction to the book, that a time of over twenty years has lapsed since the actual debate took place. Therefore the dates provided therein are naturally imaginative.

5- Dr. Ali as-Saloos mentioned that he met with the son of Sheikh al-Bishri who denied any knowledge of such a debate taking place with his father, though he was serving as a secretary of his father.

6- It is evidant from these letters that Sheikh al-Bishri's responses were void of any substance of knowledge. They were basically lines of commendments, astonishments, submissive in nature, and simply requesting verifications and further evidences.

7- Abdul-Hussain claims that he will only abide by what is Sahih according to AhluSunnah, yet he fills his arguments with weak Ahadith. Not only that, but Sheikh Salim - a grand scholar of Hadith - fails to recognise this fact or object on any.

The book is a pure fabrication of Abdul-Hussain, who took advantage of Sheikh Salim's death, to write a book 20 years later and claim that such a debate took place.

8- According to Abdul-Hussain, Sheikh Salim, at the end of the debate, converted to Shi'ism. Yet no man in the Islamic world or Shi'i world ever heard of his conversion at the time. Not even his own family. Only Abdul-Hussain knew of this fact. Masha Allah.

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
DavidC Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474	Post Options Post Reply Quote DavidC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Al-Muraja’at � A Shia Suni Dialog Posted: 24 June 2006 at 5:53am
	I have not read much of this but it appears to be a well written and respectful debate between Shia and Sunni. http://www.al-islam.org/murajaat/
	Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.

Israfil Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984	Post Options Post Reply Quote Israfil Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 June 2006 at 11:31am
	I read most of the comment shere, thus my sayings in the rejection of Sects. To me this is unnecessary garbage. The spiritual essentials are clear. We need to find untiy under the simplicity of the Law: Oneness of God, Respect for fellow mankind, help the poor, attend congregational services, sustain the bodily and spiritual necessities of mankind.

Fatah-Momin Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 May 2005 Status: Offline Points: 156	Post Options Post Reply Quote Fatah-Momin Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 July 2006 at 4:58pm
	Al-Muraja�at � A Shia Suni Dialog I have included below the dates of the letters contained in the translation of the Murajaat as provided by al-islam.org As it may be noted, if Allamah Al-Musawi was indeed in Beirut while Sheikh Selim Al-Bishri was in Cairo, the dates on almost all these correspondencies are impossible, given that these discussions took place around 1910-1911 C.E. I would like to hear comments from our Shia friends on the dates of these letters, because to me it seems an imagination that the mailing service would be so fast in those days (It is not even so fast today) Letter 1: 6-11-1329 Letter 2: 6-11-1329 Letter 3: 7-11-1329 Letter 4: 4-11-1329 Letter 5: 9-11-1329 Letter 6: 12-11-1329 Letter 7: 13-11-1329 Letter 8 to 16: 11-1329 (No specific date is given. If someone has the original Arabic text, perhaps the dates are given there). Letter 17: 3-12-1329 Letter 18: 4-12-1329 Letter 19: 5-12-1329 Letter 20: 9-12-1329 Letter 21: 10-12-1329 Letter 22: 12-1329 (No specific date is given. If someone has the original Arabic text, perhaps the dates are given there). Letter 23: 14-12-1329 Letter 24: 15-12-1329 Letter 25: 16-12-1329 Letter 26: 17-12-1329 Letter 27: 18-12-1329 Letter 28: 19-12-1329 Letter 29: 20-12-1329 Letter 30: 22-12-1329 Letter 31: 22-12-1329 Letter 32: 24-12-1329 Letter 33: 25-12-1329 Letter 34: 27-12-1329 Letter 35: 27-12-1329 Letter 36: 29-12-1329 Letter 37: 29-12-1329 Letter 38: 29-12-1329 Letter 39: 30-12-1329 Letter 40: 2-1-1330 Letter 41: 3-1-1330 Letter 42: 4-1-1330 Letter 43: 4-1-1330 Letter 44: 5-1-1330 Letter 45: 6-1-1330 Letter 46: 6-1-1330 Letter 47: 7-1-1330 Letter 48: 8-1-1330 Letter 49: 11-1-1330 Letter 50: 13-1-1330 Letter 51: 14-1-1330 Letter 52: 15-1-1330 Letter 53: 16-1-1330 Letter 54: 18-1-1330 Letter 55: 19-1-1330 Letter 56: 22-1-1330 Letter 57: 25-1-1330 Letter 58: 27-1-1330 Letter 59: 28-1-1330 Letter 60: 30-1-1330 Letter 61: 1-2-1330 Letter 62: 2-2-1330 Letter 63: 3-2-1330 Letter 64: 4-2-1330 Letter 65: 5-2-1330 Letter 66: 5-2-1330 Letter 67: 6-2-1330 Letter 68: 9-2-1330 Letter 69: 10-2-1330 Letter 70: 11-2-1330 Letter 71: 10-2-1330 Letter 72: 12-2-1330 Letter 73: 13-2-1330 Letter 74: 14-2-1330 Letter 75: 17-2-1330 Letter 76: 19-2-1330 Letter 77: 20-2-1330 Letter 78: 22-2-1330 Letter 79: 23-2-1330 Letter 80: 24-2-1330 Letter 81: 28-2-1330 Letter 82: 30-2-1330 Letter 83: 2-3-1330 Letter 84: 5-3-1330 Letter 85: 7-3-1330 Letter 86: 8-3-1330 Letter 87: 9-3-1330 Letter 88: 11-3-1330 Letter 89: 14-3-1330 Letter 90: 17-3-1330 Letter 91: 19-3-1330 Letter 92: 22-3-1330 Letter 93: 23-3-1330 Letter 94: 25-3-1330 Letter 95: 26-3-1330 Letter 96: 29-3-1330 Letter 97: 30-3-1330 Letter 98: 11-4-1330 Letter 99: 5-4-1330 Letter 100: 8-4-1330 Letter 101: 10-4-1330 Letter 102: 11-4-1330 Letter 103: 12-4-1330 Letter 104: 15-4-1330 Letter 105: 16-4-1330 Letter 106: 18-4-1330 Letter 107: 19-4-1330 Letter 108: 22-4-1330 Letter 109: 23-4-1330 Letter 110: 29-4-1330 Letter 111: 1-5-1330 Letter 112: 2-5-1330 According to Abdul-Hussain, the debate took place between him and Sheikh Salim al-Bishri, in writing, while he was in Egypt visiting. But there's a problem with this claim: 1- At the given time, a council for reconciliation (taqreeb) was formed consisting of AhluSunnah scholars and Shi'i scholars, of which Abdul-Hussain was a member of. They held numerous meetings together. yet, in the minutes of those meetings, no mention was ever made in refrence to a written debate taking place between the two. 2- Abdul-Hussain admits in his introduction to the book, that he lost the original documents, which explains why he cannot document a single letter. 3- Abdul-Hussain admits in his introduction to the book, that though the contents of the letter were basically identical to the original, yet the wording of these letters are solely his. 4- Abdul-Hussain admits in his introduction to the book, that a time of over twenty years has lapsed since the actual debate took place. Therefore the dates provided therein are naturally imaginative. 5- Dr. Ali as-Saloos mentioned that he met with the son of Sheikh al-Bishri who denied any knowledge of such a debate taking place with his father, though he was serving as a secretary of his father. 6- It is evidant from these letters that Sheikh al-Bishri's responses were void of any substance of knowledge. They were basically lines of commendments, astonishments, submissive in nature, and simply requesting verifications and further evidences. 7- Abdul-Hussain claims that he will only abide by what is Sahih according to AhluSunnah, yet he fills his arguments with weak Ahadith. Not only that, but Sheikh Salim - a grand scholar of Hadith - fails to recognise this fact or object on any. The book is a pure fabrication of Abdul-Hussain, who took advantage of Sheikh Salim's death, to write a book 20 years later and claim that such a debate took place. 8- According to Abdul-Hussain, Sheikh Salim, at the end of the debate, converted to Shi'ism. Yet no man in the Islamic world or Shi'i world ever heard of his conversion at the time. Not even his own family. Only Abdul-Hussain knew of this fact. Masha Allah.