Muslim-style Prayer in the OT & NT

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   bismarck - let us briefly consider the "great high priestly" prayer of Christ in john 17.  look at v.1 - "these words spake jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said......."  --- now it is clear that he could not lift up his eyes to heaven in the posture of prostration that you have specified, with his nose and forehead touching the ground.  incidentally, (and i do not have the reference for this) but i am 99.9% sure that muhammad said (reportedly in the hadith)that if you lift up your eyes to heaven at prayer, they will pop out of your head!!  now this from john 17 really does close the case as far as im concerned, your case has not been proven, and this disproves it
now noone is saying there are no mistakes in the av.  there is no translation without mistakes and wrong options.  what i will say is this, the av was by far and away the best effort up to that point in time, in any language (?)  other translations may have surpassed it for accuracy since (and many have fallen short of its excellence)  how do you define a good translation, btw?

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fredifreeloader Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 456	Post Options Post Reply Quote fredifreeloader Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 March 2006 at 7:26am
	*bismarck* - let us briefly consider the "great high priestly" prayer of Christ in john 17. look at v.1 - *"these words spake jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said......." --- now it is clear* that he could not lift up his eyes to heaven in the posture of prostration that you have specified, with his nose and forehead touching the ground. incidentally, (and i do not have the reference for this) but i am 99.9% sure that muhammad said (reportedly in the hadith)that if you lift up your eyes to heaven at prayer, they will pop out of your head!! now this from john 17 really does close the case as far as im concerned, your case has not been proven, and this disproves it now noone is saying there are no mistakes in the av. there is no translation without mistakes and wrong options. what i will say is this, the av was by far and away the best effort up to that point in time, in any language (?) other translations may have surpassed it for accuracy since (and many have fallen short of its excellence) how do you define a good translation, btw?
	for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16

runner Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Groupie Joined: 22 March 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 44	Post Options Post Reply Quote runner Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 March 2006 at 4:35pm
	For our Muslim friends who may not be fully acquainted with King James & the Authorized Version of the Bible and for those discussants who choose to ignore the complexity of James rule, I recommend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_I It appears his mother was Catholic, but he was raised Protestant. During his rule he was characterized by Protestants as too Catholic, and by Catholics as Protestant, and at times was targeted by one, then the other. It appears that he didn't harbor strong feelings either way, and seemed to want to be on whichever side seemed useful (or less threatening) at the time.