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Pair production in the quran
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airmano View Drop Down
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Points: 884 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 October 2016 at 12:31pm
Quote Originally posted by airmano

If everything(!) comes in pairs what is the (opposite) "partner" of gravitation ?
What is the "complement" of the number Pi ?

Quite obviously here the Quran is wrong.

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Tim:
I think you are out of order here.

If I say everything in the universe was created in the big bang I am being guilty of the same sort of understandable slightly less than exact wording that is being used in the Koran. I mean everything. That is all matter.

I also do not know that this is true. The ideas of dark matter and dark energy seem to have clashes with this idea that every single thing started 13.8 billion years ago.

Again the Koran should not be put under the same scrutiny as a scientific paper. But it would be nice if it was put under the scrutiny that you would put a news paper under.

I think we already had this discussion in the past. My answer to your comment is "yes and no".

If the verse:
�I have created everything in pairs, that you may remember.� (Soorah ath-Thaariyaat, 51: 49)
is taken metaphorically I will not even raise an eyebrow.

But if you look carefully at the contribution starting the topic you see that this verse is (ab-)used to pretend that the quran expressed unknown scientific knowledge - what is obviously nonsense.

So again: If somebody gets deeply impressed by the Quran's poetry and "wisdom" (whatever that means) - no problem. But as soon as the Quran is used to poach in scientific territory it must abide to scientific scrutiny.

May be I can suggest a compromise by suggesting a different wording like:

"If taken literally this verse of the Quran is wrong".

Could you agree on this wording ?


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 05 October 2016 at 12:36pm
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Tim the plumber View Drop Down
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Points: 944 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2016 at 11:36am
Originally posted by asep48garut60 asep48garut60 wrote:

Dear Tim the plumber,

Thank you for your explanation.
If indeed science says so, I accept your explanation in point 2, but what's mentioned in the Word of God that beneath the earth's surface there is the fire, is it also right? although it�s not coming from the central of the earth, because that verse only say in general (not in detail).
Once again, thanks for your explanation. That's why for me that the science will be needed to explain the word of God which is a common form, and vice versa.

Regards.
Asep


The idea that there is fire beneath the surface is from seeing volcanoes, where the liquid rock from say 30km deep has flowed up to the surface and this is extremely hot. Anything burnable droping in will burn imediately. The whole thing will look very similar to fire. There would have been no better words for it at the time.

Also there are places where fire seems to come out of the ground. This is where natural gas naturally comes out of the ground and at some point it has been lit and thus continues to burn just like a gas hob on the cooker burns with the gas mixing with air and heat.

Thirdly where coal is exposed or almost exposed this can ignite spontaneously and flame will pop up out of cracks as the coal rock shrinks under the earth as it burns away.

If you go down reasonable deep, say 100m, there is no fire as such though. For fire you need oxygen to mix with a fuel and heat which makes a chemical reaction, changing the fuel and the oxygen, which makes more heat. So no fires away from the air.

That said I am applying a definition to fire that is informed by science. Rock so hot it glows and has warmed the air it is in contact with so much that you cannot hold your hand over it makes the word fire the best one they would have for it.

My take on it is that if you wish to read the Koran or any ancient script you have to understand that it is not at all like reading a scientific paper. There are things that are factually wrong in it. But it is not the same as a science paper. So the language is not exact.

The tales in these ancient books are also often wrong. There has never been a world flood. If you want to find meaning in the Koran you must use it as a spiritual text and not cling to the facts it uses as these are very often wrong.
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asep48garut60 View Drop Down
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Points: 248 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asep48garut60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2016 at 12:11am
Dear Tim the plumber,

Thanks for your explanation, I may be wrong in interpret the word "fire" in the Quran, because I just remembered that God Himself told me through His word that I have to pay attention to the verses that looks like a parable or have other meanings, and this verse may be one of them.
Thank you.

Regards,
Asep

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