Salam alikum brothers and sisters.

Can someone please help me with the subject heading?

I will number the questions and then Inshallah someone can get back to me and advise me on this.

1. Why is it haram to talk to psychics and get advice from them? I don't mean people who practice blackmagic ect. I mean ones who are good in thought and intention; and are simply helping you with a problem one may have.

2. Ok, often I have heard many muslims tell me psychics work with Jinns and this is how they get all the advice about people and their future. I have done some research up myself and spoke to some of them and asked them if this is true.

and they said no..that they actually work with God's angels for love, guidance and help. When I spoke to some muslims about this, they said no, this is not true..they are tricked into believing they are angels.

3. The other question is there are people out there who have been borne with this gift aome with Telepathy(Mind reading) Some with the ability to see in the future, sense ect. So if it is haram to see them; then why did Allah swt give them this gift?

4. The second part of the question is to do with past lives(Reincarnation)

I know In Islam that we have only one life here and then we die and are returned to Allah swt.

But often I have been hearing that we have many past lives, that we have lived before and this can be understood by the memory cell in the back of our heads. Which stores all our memories. 

There is a sufi group that often quotes a verse from the Quran "How can you deny Godwhen you were dead and God gave you life? Then God will cause you to die, and then revive you and then you will be returned to God." (2:28)

Some sufis claim this to mean Reincarnation....there was some sufi teacher called: Hazrat Talal-ad-Deen Rummi, who talked about how we go from Human form, to the soul, then to Angelhood and then beyond.

Personally I don't believe that.

5. In Christanity and the Jewish faith apparently Reincarnation was a solid belief.  In almost all references were deliberately deleted in 3rd Centur AD. (inregards to reincarnation.)  I am not sure if this is true.

I read up on one Muslim writer..saying that under hypnosis clients have talked about "Past live experiences." He said this is how Jinns whisper into the minds of man and make lies.

It is said we each have a spirt guide that guides us all our lives, which is a angel.

So how do we know that contact with the angels is not part of the AL-Ghayb? (the unseen.)

I would appricate any advice on this  please.

Many thanks.

Imran.

I'll go down the list

1) Because there is no proof of telepathy in the first place as far as science as concerned. Most psychics operate from information volunteered beforehand and then, with that information unbeknowesth to the individual, will use that information to give off readings. My neuroscience professor demonstrated to us how this is done. Regardless whether the intention is good or bad one is still being deceived without the influence of angels or jinn.

2) This is false. Even is telepathy even existed it would be an innate faculty given by God and not necessarily something that is received. Angels, according to Islamic theology converse with prophets not average humans. Psychics are not prophets therefore, it is not assumed that they are guided (in the psychic sense) by angels.

3) From the way you worded your question it seems as if you believe psychics are real. Much like the proof of the existence of God, there is no proof that telepathy exist at least clinically. There have been studies where supposed psychics were tested but most have proven to be either very vague in their readings or fake. Ever heard of the $1,00,0000 challenge? James Randi challenge the famous Sylvia Browne and other psychics under scientific study to prove their abilities. So far no psychics have stepped up.

4) This is mainly a dialetical thing where Sufis and other schools of thought  may differ. If one believes in reincarnation then all that is in the Qur'an is wrong. First off, if reincarnation exist then hell and heaven are not infinite destinations since, the former self can change bodies. Since the soul is an unchangable form, reincarnation can also be misinterpreted as the soul as being infinite (See Al-Ghazali). The soul in this instance would not undergo any type of chage only matter which the soul is encapsulated in. With that being said reincarnation is not believed in.

5) This seems like a repeated question. The main thing you should be aware of is that Islam does not condone psychic readings or psychic beliefs. To do such is to lose faith in the path Allah has set for you. To consult a psychic is like an impatient act as if you cannot live life and let the path unfold for you. I know people who consult psychics and card readers who claim they work however one thing people don't realize (which is something all psychology/philosophy majors know-or at least grqaduate students) is that psychics operate on the pre-existing beliefs of society.

Psychics obviously cannot fortell a future they cannot prove so they make vague statements so as to make the individual believe that the psychic is predicting elements that may change their life or lead them to certain things in life. A psychic will not predict someones death and even if they do it is coincidental. My advice to you is to stay away from them because they are deceivers. Christians call them devil worshippers but I call them clever scam artists. when I saw my professor mimic a psychic and people in my GRADUATE class believing my professor I was amazed how even so-called intellectual and smart people can be duped.

Thank you for your reply.

I agree with most of what you say.

But I didn't understand what you meant by Angels decieving men...why would angels decieve men?

I thought it was Jinns that done that?

Science genrally in this day and age doesent like to believe anything that dosent match up to its own ideology; especially when it comes to Psychics; and so on.

But its true that most psychics do operate on the Pre- existing beliefs of society; in the sense that before their was religion and religious texts- I think. So the claim is Psychics have been around well before Religion came along.

Telepathy does exist, I am not sure how the science of it works. if i get some more Info on it, Inshallah I will put it up.

You say most Psychics are fake..its true there are many many scammers about. But there are genuine ones about..the scammers give them a bad name.

For example, I persoanlly know of people who have had readings with one psychic..and they have not said anything or given one thing away about themselves; yet the psychic gave them pinpoint accuracy about their lives; and what their problems were.

I spoke to these people afterwards; and they were well impressed. Even down to their careers paths and what their hobbies were; what problems they had; did have and are still having ect. 

My point is that there are some good ones out there, who are genuine.

Ps...Brother I noticed you put "Graduate" in caps, was this to lay emphasis on university students somehow being super integellent?

I also know of psychics personally; who have helped people with real crippling problems..people I have spoken to and have seen the diffrence and they didnt use NLP.

I know of people who have had horrible things happen to them; they have tried modern psychology, and not only has it been  ineffective (maybe not for all people) but they have wasted Thousands of pounds on so called experts who have done nothing but make their bank accounts bigger.)

Peace.

sorwy I just reread the bit on and jinns. My mistake. Thats my dyslexia.

Fair enuff. we al have our views and experiences.

By the way..just for any other brothers and sisters..if you have had any psychic experiences or spoken to any genuine ones. It would be lovely to hear from you.

Feel free to Private message me.

Peace.

Israfil wrote: Like I said ALL psychics to me are fake. If you can prove psychic abilities are real then you can prove that God exist as a corporeal being.

I know you haven't had good experience but what do you call your intuition or gut feeling? that is a psychic abitilty and everyone has that. Even picking up others energy vibrations.

I have futuristic dreams that come true, mind you i don't remember it until that moment has arrived, that too is a psychic ability. And in all honesty i probably could get trained to developed that much furthur.

I also have this certain way of sensing things, its hard to explain.

So for me your proposal is unrealistic (i am not sure if that is the right word) but for those who believe God is everywhere and in us, then i guess it is a little bit unrealistic. 

I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future. 

Yes, there are some fake and irresponsible psychics (so called ones) and i wouldn't class them as psychics anyway. I really get put off by those who dress up and i just want to run in the opposite direction.

I think why it is not a good idea or that religion forbids it is because there are bad ones and damage can be done, and also because of bad spirits. I am my self struggling is that all cannot be good, that all spirits are not good so you do need to be careful. I think this is why it is discouraged in religion.

Angel my response to you are in red

I know you haven't had good experience but what do you call your intuition or gut feeling? that is a psychic abitilty and everyone has that. Even picking up others energy vibrations.

Intuition has nothing to do with psychic abilities but rather, instictual thought on a particular situation. I would say having a "gut feeling" goes along the lines of activating the frontal lobe of the brain (and perhaps other areas) where this lobe is the center of the organization of thought processes. Perhaps gut feelings come from the instinctual feeling through chemical reaction from this area. Again, this could scientifically explained if I used an fMRI to study "gut feelings." Dogs for instance have reactions based on vibrations (not feeling them persay but sound vibrations) and react accordingly but humans do not have this keen sense.

Sometimes "gut feelings" are more of like guessing because we may innately feel strongly about something and could be wrong. My experiences has nothing to do with why I disagree with psychics. I disagree with them because from a religious perspective by me participating I'm saying in this act that I don't trust God so I will consult a human being who will predict (or at least give me hints on) my future for me. To me going to psychics is the lazy way to find answers. People consult horoscopes and astrologists but all of these individuals practice psuedopsychology (fake psychology).

I have futuristic dreams that come true, mind you i don't remember it until that moment has arrived, that too is a psychic ability. And in all honesty i probably could get trained to developed that much furthur.

Futuristic dreams has nothing to do with psychic ability and the fact that you have "futuristic dreams" can be explained. I would say your subconscious (not your conscious mind) would act upon  those so-called futuristic dreams and actualize the reality for you thus making it coincidental. I can tell you that humans don't remember every particular aspect of their dream just the things that stand out so whether or not you experienced something that you dreamt may not be entirely accurate but resemble something you dreamt about, that too can happen as well.

I also have this certain way of sensing things, its hard to explain.

Another intuituion?

So for me your proposal is unrealistic (i am not sure if that is the right word) but for those who believe God is everywhere and in us, then i guess it is a little bit unrealistic. 

What is my proposal? Have proposed anything? If anything I said going to a psychic is an illogical choice. I'm willing to say if you go to a psychich maybe once or twice out of curiousity I would accept that but going to a psychic out of pure belief then that is just "crazy." I told Muslim_mind that psychics are not special and because they possess this ability then all humans should possess this ability. The fact that there are fake psychics is scary because gullible humans like Muslim_mind can be taken advantage of. I also made a reference to my neuriscience professor who imitated a psychic and actually predicted accurate things about his graduate students! he basically told us how he does it.

He also explained that when consulting a psychich before the reading the psychic goes into casual conversation with the individual (of course this is not the only avenue to obtain information but the most likely) then, from whatever information is gathered can tactically, make predictions off the information that is provided. Even through the reading the psychic will ask questions to pick the gullible persons brain note the following dialogue:

 Psychic: "Who is mary and who is this cat with her?" 

 Gullible:  Mary is my next door neighbor and she has a cat!

Psychic: No I'm seeing someone named Mary and she is telling me about some money but a cat is with her. Do you have anyone in your family that is named Mary like a loved one that passed away? Did someone recently pass away or passed away within the last two years?

Gullible: Oh yea I had an aunt that passed away and her middle name is Marilou (MAREE-LOU) and she did have pets.

Psychic: Yes, she is telling me about some money you have coming through the family or some other source.

Gullible: Oh really???

Psychic: Yes.

My point here is to show how psychics even ask leading questions to make us answer inaccurate information...LOL even us police officers and District Attorneys do such things. Its a tactic that makes people admit to faults. I particularly don't do it but my T.O. (training officer) I've seen done its funny how even innocent people will admit to doing something wrong.

I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future. 

That is my point no human knows the future and consulting a human who is as fallible as the next one is crazy. That is like a surgeon asking a psychic's advice on which part of the body he or she should operate on?

Yes, there are some fake and irresponsible psychics (so called ones) and i wouldn't class them as psychics anyway. I really get put off by those who dress up and i just want to run in the opposite direction.

I'm talking about famous psychics not crazy ones. Look at Sylvia Browne who have been on numerous shows and have made numerous books about predicting futures and stuff and have worked with the police. She has been shown to be a fraud and even James Randi challenged her and has her on video on Larry King Live admitting to accepting this challenge. If she is so confident in her ability why not perform under scientific study? According to James Randi's website it has been 5 years since Sylvia Browne accepted his challenge. By the way this is an individual who says she has seen heaven, seen God and angels and has a spiritual guide. She also says Satan is not evil but misunderstood. Basically she is a gnostic...

I think why it is not a good idea or that religion forbids it is because there are bad ones and damage can be done, and also because of bad spirits. I am my self struggling is that all cannot be good, that all spirits are not good so you do need to be careful. I think this is why it is discouraged in religion.

You're assuming angel without knoing the facts. Abrahamic faiths in particular agree in a consensus that going to psychics are not good because they are performing the functions that God does. If an individual participates in such actions then he or she with their action is saying they are either impatient or does not believe in God unfolding their paths for you. Imagine someone saying they can show you the future in a box and let's say for argument's sake that this is true. Would you take a peek at the box or would you not? A lot of people would and some wouldn't and what if you decided to look and you die 10 years from that moment. Your lifestyle could or could not drastically change from that moment.

Either way, the inevitable would not change but I think people would change themselves if they knew aforehand. I basically believe that consulting fallible human beings is not a good way to help yourself. If people are suffering from depression or have personal issues they should consult a therapist. Yes all therapy does not help but these professionals can at least refer you to either a psychiatrist (if its a biological issue) or another therapist. But someone with clinical depression (or otherwise) should not consult a psychic.

I personally think Muslim_mind consults psychics and want to discuss if anyone has consulted a psychic. I as a Muslim in return am saying that Psychics are considered haram what he/she does with this information is their choice.

Israfil wrote: I'll go down the list 1) Because there is no proof of telepathy in the first place as far as science as concerned. Most psychics operate from information volunteered beforehand and then, with that information unbeknowesth to the individual, will use that information to give off readings. My neuroscience professor demonstrated to us how this is done. Regardless whether the intention is good or bad one is still being deceived without the influence of angels or jinn. 2) This is false. Even is telepathy even existed it would be an innate faculty given by God and not necessarily something that is received. Angels, according to Islamic theology converse with prophets not average humans. Psychics are not prophets therefore, it is not assumed that they are guided (in the psychic sense) by angels. 3) From the way you worded your question it seems as if you believe psychics are real. Much like the proof of the existence of God, there is no proof that telepathy exist at least clinically. There have been studies where supposed psychics were tested but most have proven to be either very vague in their readings or fake. Ever heard of the $1,00,0000 challenge? James Randi challenge the famous Sylvia Browne and other psychics under scientific study to prove their abilities. So far no psychics have stepped up. 4) This is mainly a dialetical thing where Sufis and other schools of thought  may differ. If one believes in reincarnation then all that is in the Qur'an is wrong. First off, if reincarnation exist then hell and heaven are not infinite destinations since, the former self can change bodies. Since the soul is an unchangable form, reincarnation can also be misinterpreted as the soul as being infinite (See Al-Ghazali). The soul in this instance would not undergo any type of chage only matter which the soul is encapsulated in. With that being said reincarnation is not believed in. 5) This seems like a repeated question. The main thing you should be aware of is that Islam does not condone psychic readings or psychic beliefs. To do such is to lose faith in the path Allah has set for you. To consult a psychic is like an impatient act as if you cannot live life and let the path unfold for you. I know people who consult psychics and card readers who claim they work however one thing people don't realize (which is something all psychology/philosophy majors know-or at least grqaduate students) is that psychics operate on the pre-existing beliefs of society. Psychics obviously cannot fortell a future they cannot prove so they make vague statements so as to make the individual believe that the psychic is predicting elements that may change their life or lead them to certain things in life. A psychic will not predict someones death and even if they do it is coincidental. My advice to you is to stay away from them because they are deceivers. Christians call them devil worshippers but I call them clever scam artists. when I saw my professor mimic a psychic and people in my GRADUATE class believing my professor I was amazed how even so-called intellectual and smart people can be duped.

Salaamu Alaykum Muslimind,

The only thing I would emphasize from Brother Israfil's excellent Islaamic answer to you is to say that it is Jinn that are communicating with these psychics, if there is any supernatural communication at all, and it is not just skilled scamming.

Jinns have knowledge of our pasts and therefore can predict things based on that.

Salaams

Angel thank you for sharing your experience there.

That was kind of you. I am intrested in psychic studies and always like to learn more about people's experiences and ideas on this.

Israfil....firstly I am not a gullible human being; and no I do not get taken advantage of..I am simply researching on this area thats all... anyway..

HerJihad...nice one for sharing your thoughts on this..if you have any more info on that please will u private message me? Thanks.

No problem its ok.

What I don't understand isarfil is with psychics; they claim to talk with God's angels; this is where I got a little doubtfull, as I know Jinns can be very dubious and crafty.

But the Psychics seem 100% convinced that it is Angels they are working with.

But anyway thank you for sharing with me on this.

I think I have enuff info on this now.

Take care.

Peace.

Israfil wrote: Angel my response to you are in red I know you haven't had good experience but what do you call your intuition or gut feeling? that is a psychic abitilty and everyone has that. Even picking up others energy vibrations. Intuition has nothing to do with psychic abilities but rather, instictual thought on a particular situation. I would say having a "gut feeling" goes along the lines of activating the frontal lobe of the brain (and perhaps other areas) where this lobe is the center of the organization of thought processes. Perhaps gut feelings come from the instinctual feeling through chemical reaction from this area. Again, this could scientifically explained if I used an fMRI to study "gut feelings." Dogs for instance have reactions based on vibrations (not feeling them persay but sound vibrations) and react accordingly but humans do not have this keen sense.

gee israfil, then I guess i am not normal, since my intuition saves me from danger i pick up on certain things, energy from people.

Israfil I do know somethings about this, otherwise i would not speak or feel confident in what i talk about.  

Vibrations are all aorund us, energy vibrations we all pick up on, even science agrees with this. negative energy vibrations does us no good while the positive energy vibrations does. it is even noted that cancer will spread alot more in negative vibration than positive. The positive is the higher vibrational aim in goodness, the love and kindness while the negative is the lower vibration. Even water picks up on either energy/vibrations and it has been scientifically proven, the water cystrals when in a healthy from are beautiful and perfect when given positive vibrations, and the negative the water crystals are distorted and sickly looking when given negative energy. The building of storms/thunder storm that creates huge amounts of energy, some people are sensitive to it and get headache, some commit suicide, Darwin has a higher suicude rate in the wet season some can't handle it at all.

I class Intuition part of ESP.

Also, picking up on things silently without knowing what or why is part of psychic ability, It is NOT always about telling the future! As far as my study goes.

Sometimes "gut feelings" are more of like guessing because we may innately feel strongly about something and could be wrong. My experiences has nothing to do with why I disagree with psychics.

I agree with this also, the reason i put gut feeling because some people interchange it with intuition. 

I know some people don't trust their intuitions.

I do have a short article on ESP. it is interesting.

I disagree with them because from a religious perspective by me participating I'm saying in this act that I don't trust God so I will consult a human being who will predict (or at least give me hints on) my future for me. To me going to psychics is the lazy way to find answers. People consult horoscopes and astrologists but all of these individuals practice psuedopsychology (fake psychology).

To me, even if I was religious, i do believe in God, doesn't mean you don't trust God, its not about the future always and not trusting God, its also about getting help at a particular time from a higher plane.

I have futuristic dreams that come true, mind you i don't remember it until that moment has arrived, that too is a psychic ability. And in all honesty i probably could get trained to developed that much furthur.

Futuristic dreams has nothing to do with psychic ability and the fact that you have "futuristic dreams" can be explained.I would say your subconscious (not your conscious mind) would act upon  those so-called futuristic dreams and actualize the reality for you thus making it coincidental. I can tell you that humans don't remember every particular aspect of their dream just the things that stand out so whether or not you experienced something that you dreamt may not be entirely accurate but resemble something you dreamt about, that too can happen as well.

oh gee Israfil   

Honestly!

It is very accurate!! In fact it is the very same!! and I don't think it is coincidential. resemble??? no.  

As for the conversation, the ones I know or been to, don't do that.

I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future.  That is my point no human knows the future and consulting a human who is as fallible as the next one is crazy. That is like a surgeon asking a psychic's advice on which part of the body he or she should operate on?

That wasn't my point, have to get back to this later, got to get my train home

Angela wrote: I read Tarot.  Here is a little secret.  The interpretations are vague.  Even the way the cards are designed are vague.  The reader can only tell you those vague things and its for the viewer to fill in the blanks.

I'll answer this later. yes i know tarot too.

Psychics are not gaining their knowledge from Angels.  God doesn't work like that.

And you know God's work and how he works. 

People who charge money for this sort of thing should be prosecuted.  And if, and I do mean IF that thing were real, it would be a gift given for the sake of God and should not be used for gain.

just like the church asking for money in the basket that goes around at mass  

I just enjoy the wonders that God has made the natural order.

That I agree on

Angel,

If people need help they can go to a therapist or a psychologist. You are saying two different things when you mention that. First off, psychics are not therapist rather, from general consensus, people go to them because they want to know where there life is or where it is going. But I've never heard of someone going to a psychic because they have problems. Even if they consult a psychic for their problems this psychic is not attuned to the billions of so humans in the world even much less the millions (or hundreds of thousands) of people in that area.

Psychics tarot cards are all too vague and if my psych professor can act like a psychic without even practicing psychics how can you expect me to agree with you when some guy (my professor) made it seem so convincing? Until psychics step up and let us scientist test them in the labs I will continue to believe they are phony. Just like religion and cults its easy to make people believe in the unseen the problem is whether people can discern what is real and what is not.

IAngel understand I really feel strong about this particular aspect of mine. I believe psychics are scamming people. I echo the same thing what sister Angela says if psychic ability is so precious and so rare why is there one or two in almost every city in los Angeles. At least with churches you know what you're getting and its easily accessible with psychics you don't know what you're getting. Plus, if you are a true psychic why have a disclaimer? To me that is setting people up for a B.S. reading.

Muslim mind wrote: 1. Why is it haram to talk to psychics and get advice from them? I don't mean people who practice blackmagic ect. I mean ones who are good in thought and intention; and are simply helping you with a problem one may have.

You mean the ones who practise white magic. But white magic too is haram. All magic is haram. Because Allah ta'ala is the Exalted One, Who created us and this universe. And we turn only to Him when we need help. Not to jinns or angels or white witches...

[Angela=quote]Well, the Church funds shouldn't be used for gain...example mine uses the money for humanitarian aid and basic upkeep of the buildings and such.  We have no paid clergy... so no one is making money.[/quote]

Those who do proper and rightful work, it is no different than paying a doctor or a psychologist or a psychiatrist, and either of them can play around with your mind too.

As for how God works....I don't believe an all powerful being is going to talk to Madame Lulu about someone's cheating lover.

I agree, and in the true sense in what I have learnt it shouldn�t be about that.                               

Besides, no psychic has ever been able to adequately predict anything before the fact.

To be honest, and this is where people don�t know or misunderstand it. It�s not there to predict the future per se, the reason why it is vague is because every single one of us makes decisions that changes things and outcomes, if something is predicted and it doesn�t come through it is because we (seeker) have done something to change the outcome. As I keep saying no one knows the future and that is because we are always making decisions, changing things nothing is at a stand still, If something comes thru, then its probably meant to happen.

I don�t understand why people have to kick up a fuss when something negative is predicted and it doesn�t happen, obviously something has happened to change it, and quite frankly you should be happy that it didn�t happen instead of going �such and such said this was going to happen and it didn�t so now such and such is a fraud???� I sometimes feel like saying this and this is why! It doesn�t make the psychic reader of some ability a fraud or a scam artist. YES there are frauds and scam artist at there and they will eventually be found out.

Look, I don�t necessarily disagree with you and Israfil, and I am quite up there with you on this but you guys talk about a certain group of psychics that scam and use common knowledge as israfil puts pre-existing beliefs of society. And they do fall prey on those who are valuable and/or going through a tough time. I don�t like them and I am quite skeptical of them to, I watched an episode of sean and penn when they went out to test a few tarot readers and I was with the hosts those people that come on the show I was appalled at them! The way they used just the appearance of someone that is not on! And besides I would not trust them if my life depended on it, the guy that did the tantra yoga sex I felt sick and to be honest he is a clear example of a scam artist! He wasn�t even knowledgeble in what he was doing anyway!

Those who have the ability and abuse it, shouldn�t be in that kind of work. Those guys give genuine psychics a bad name.  

And another thing I won�t trust is those who dress up and have a table with a crystal ball on the table! Or the guys at a cirus or fun fair! I just want to run in the opposite direction, lol!

And even a broken clock is right twice a day

Sure, unless it�s a 24 hour clock, hehe

Another thing people misunderstand is, It�s not there to tell you what to do in life. Its there as a guide.  

I also know for a fact that some police stations around the world consult with psychics and Allison Debouis the real one, works with the Distract Attorney�s office in her home city.  Now if Allison is a fake and a fraud I highly doubt that she would be working and consulting on cases because she would be found out to a fraud along time ago before Hollywood made her popular! I was listening to an interview with Allison once and she even commented on that even among psychics themselves, get skeptical with each other because every one has a different ability &/or similar ability but different.

As for Sylvia Browne, I don�t know her so I cannot comment.

I think why it is not a good idea or that religion forbids it is because there are bad ones and damage can be done, and also because of bad spirits. I am my self struggling is that all cannot be good, that all spirits are not good so you do need to be careful. I think this is why it is discouraged in religion. {{israfil}}You're assuming angel without knoing the facts. Abrahamic faiths in particular agree in a consensus that going to psychics are not good because they are performing the functions that God does.If an individual participates in such actions then he or she with their action is saying they are either impatient or does not believe in God unfolding their paths for you.

Very well maybe, Look if God or the angels can communicate with Prophets (because they were specially chosen), Prophets were merely human too, if the angels can communicate with them then they can choose to communicate with other humans, It is that simple.

Saying that psychics are not good (and I am not talking about the fraud/scam artists/or those who abuse)  because they are performing the functions that God does, is an error, first they are not performing the functions that God has, that would make them God I guess and they are not. Second, why do they have that ability whichever psychic ability they have? Third, It is not always about seeing the future. Fourth it is not about not trusting God or the path God has given you. Or that you are impatient or not. In fact you have to be patient. Some things don�t happen as quick as you may want them to, some things may happen in months ahead or a year or 2.   

Imagine someone saying they can show you the future in a box and let's say for argument's sake that this is true. Would you take a peek at the box or would you not? A lot of people would and some wouldn't and what if you decided to look and you die 10 years from that moment. Your lifestyle could or could not drastically change from that moment.Either way, the inevitable would not change but I think people would change themselves if they knew aforehand. I basically believe that consulting fallible human beings is not a good way to help yourself. If people are suffering from depression or have personal issues they should consult a therapist. Yes all therapy does not help but these professionals can at least refer you to either a psychiatrist (if its a biological issue) or another therapist. But someone with clinical depression (or otherwise) should not consult a psychic.

I do agree with you here. I am not totally against you even thou I may seem to be and you to be against all I share.

It�s not a substitute. And yes you should consult a medical practitioner.

I personally think Muslim_mind consults psychics and want to discuss if anyone has consulted a psychic. I as a Muslim in return am saying that Psychics are considered haram what he/she does with this information is their choice.

True. And there is nothing wrong with discussing, it does call for an interesting discussion.

Just like religion and cults its easy to make people believe in the unseen the problem is whether people can discern what is real and what is not.

I agree, that�s why education is good. And partly why I show you (anybody) otherwise with what you bring across, which I as mentioned am not entirely against. I have read and learn and keep on doing so, that is why I can say what I say and be confident with it. (and it does not mean that I believe or do, I have some knowledge (I don�t claim to know everything) and will share and show others if I choose, to that�s all).   

I know you and others aren�t going to believe and that�s fine or at least scientific tests proves otherwise, and you know what I don�t think controlled testing will show accuracies as you want it to be, its still going to be vague for the simple fact that situations changes, life changes all around us all the time. And that there are different abilities. What is for one person will not be the same for another. I will say again: I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future.  

For me personally, the jury is still out. And quite frankly I�ve had enough.

And anyway, I think this was suppose to be on islam point of view

People who charge money for this sort of thing should be prosecuted. And if, and I do mean IF that thing were real, it would be a gift given for the sake of God and should not be used for gain.

If you weren't one of my most loved sisters, I will fly, in the face of all odds, to the United States and sue you for wasting your time in whatever job you have.

You are gifted, with the ability to put your thought into such precise simple words and with all that depth. Plus, you are just and fair. If you were on the international circuit, teaching n training people, you will brew a lot of healthy minds.

And, that is my Angela's Plan II.

(Women have to rise and act in these interesting times to heal Society)

Israfil
Senior Member


Professor Israfilus, I have no idea what you are doing out there hiding behind that tinplate badge? If someone ever asks me if Israfil could write, I will go speechless and not utter a word.

Come over here and do what you have been made for.

Angel your post are in bold:

It�s not there to predict the future per se, the reason why it is vague is because every single one of us makes decisions that changes things and outcomes, if something is predicted and it doesn�t come through it is because we (seeker) have done something to change the outcome.

This whole paragraph is the reason why psychics are skeptical. Angel I don't think you are providing the best explanation for psychics (no offense). Can you explain to me how an individual who gets a psychic reading has the mental capacity to discern what path is being explained to them? What if this individual suffers from a mild case of dementia or suffers from clinical depression? What if this individual is confused? If psychic readings are supposed to be a guide and not, predictors of the future how can a "vague" reading enable someone understand what is being explained to them?

As I keep saying no one knows the future and that is because we are always making decisions, changing things nothing is at a stand still, If something comes thru, then its probably meant to happen.

Then there is no need to see a psychic since, in essence to what you've just stated that real psychics do not predict the future. How then are psychics are guides? I believe you tried to explain this in the following:

the reason why it is vague is because every single one of us makes decisions that changes things and outcomes, if something is predicted and it doesn�t come through it is because we (seeker) have done something to change the outcome.

Any helpful information that another one is trying to give is NOT vague it is direct and straight forward. the reason psychic readings are vague is to keep the psychich for being held accountable if the reading doesn't go as it was explained therefore, there may be another excuse dropped on the gullible individual. True advice is not vague. A therapist does not say this or that MAY happen rather a therapist will outline the rirectives that the individual must do  in order to reach a certain point and must continue in repetition so that the individual may acheive some sort of gratification of course this is a rough example. A psychic, not being a therapist should not offer advice in a vague way because this can be misleading especially if the individual suffers from depression this in itself can alter an individual's mindset.

Let me ask you something Angel why don't psychics offer disclaimers to individuals who possibly might have mental disorders? Why don't they take that into consideration? I'm not talking about someone who is obviously mental deficient but someone who could possibly suffer from a mood disorder.

I also know for a fact that some police stations around the world consult with psychics

LOL. Most police investigations that involve psychics usually involve difficult leads (or none) and sometimes turn to self-proclaimed psychics but usually the leads are vague and some cases end up still on file as a mystery. There are a few cases where cops have solved caes with psychics but a lot of the times it is usually police work, not psychics that solve the case.

I still stand by that science doesn't have all the answers and or that science has not catched up with some things because today humans can only go so far into scientific experiments, so who knows in the future.  

Funny, you dont believe in the social sciences of religion yet you believe in the abilities of fallible humans who call themselves psychics. This isn't about science proving everything its about people taking advantage of gullible humans. When my neuroscience professor performed like a psychic in class and convinced people that he actually could read others that let's me know that there is a tactic behind this whole business. If psychic ability was so phenomenal why is it so common? I mean, I see Sikhs on the street performing "street readings" in L.A. for God's sake.

Israfil wrote: Funny, you dont believe in the social sciences of religion yet you believe in the abilities of fallible humans who call themselves psychics.

Israfil, I NEVER said that!!! read my post again.

and who said I don't believe in the social science of religion?, I may not believe in all of religion or religions.

This isn't about science proving everything its about people taking advantage of gullible humans.

{{shaking my head}}, read again.

Actually you make it out as if it has to be proven, you say this and that has be proven you talk about your Professor... and yet when i say some things have been, i'm shut off ??.

I'm not st**id israfil on the subject! And I am not claiming to know everything but you need to let up on me about the subject. I know what i mentioned is on the right path. And quite frankly I haven't entirely been against you! but i guess you never read that several times in my post otherwise i don't think you would have continued in a response and mention your Professor again (who by the way I might be with him on his test). And again, whatever I said doesn't reflect what i believe personally, for me personally the jury is out.

I thought with the knowledge i brought across that you know I know something about it, despite you not believing in it all!

lastly I know my writing is not perfect i'm not a writer like you.

This concludes my participation in this thread, well my last post was but i guess this one will be.

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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~