To Israfil

Salam ala kum,

I respect your viewpoint, and would like to clarify one point and present my humble words.

Some sincere Muslims may ask" Why to the Shia seperate themselves, why don't they just say " We are Muslims, and that's all!" The main reason relates to the following issue.

(I apologize for the lengthy list of narrators, but I'm sure some will object to the following , and I want to establish that I am not making it up from myself)

Allah, the most Glorified and High says: "Allah wishes to remove all impurity from you, O members of the household, and to purify you completely" (33:33).

" The ahl al-sunna wa'l-Jama'a maintain that this verse was revealed for the wives of the Prophet (S.A.W.). They derive their proof from the context of the preceding and following verses. According to their claims, Allah therefore removed impurity from the wives of the Prophet and purified them completely.

Among them are those who add to the [list of the] wives of the Prophet, 'Ali, Fatima, al-Hasan and al-Husayn. But the truth, according to what has been transmitted, as well as according to reasoning, logic and history, refutes this explanation. [This is] because the ahl al-sunna narrate in their Sahihs that the verse was revealed regarding five people namely: Muhammad, 'Ali, Fatima, al-Hasan and al-Husayn, and that the Prophet of Allah (S.A.W.) identified them and his noble self as being referred to by the noble verse when he gathered 'Ali, Fatima, al-Hasan and al-Husayn with him under the cloak. He said: "O Allah! These are my household, so cleanse them of all impurity and purify them completely".

This narration has been reported by a large majority of Sunni scholars. I mention [some of] them:

1. Muslim in his Sahih, in "The Chapter on the Merits of the Prophet's household": Vol. 2, p. 368.

2. Al- Tirmidhi in his Sahih; Vol. 5, p. 30.

3. Al-Musnad, Imam Ahmad b. Hanbal; Vol. 1, p. 330.

4. Al-Mustadrak, al- Hakim; Vol. 3, p. 123.

5. Al-Khas'ais, Imam al-Nasa'i; p. 49

6. Talkhis, al-Dhahabi; Vol. 2, p. 150.

7. Mu'jam, al-Tabrani; Vol. 1, p. 65.

8. Shawahid al-Tanzil, Hakim al-Haskani; Vol. 2, p. 11.

9. Al-Bukhari in his Greater History; Vol. 1, p. 69.

10. Al-Isaba, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani; Vol. 2, p. 502.

11. Tadhkira al-Khawas, Ibn al-Jawzi; p. 233.

12. Tafsir of al-Fakhr al-Razi; Vol. 2, p. 700.

13. The Fountains of Love, al-Qanduzi al-Hanafi; p. 107.

14. Manaqib of al-Khawarizmi, p. 23.

15. Al-Sira of al-Halabi, Vol. l3, p. 212.

16. Al-Sira of al-Dihlaniya; Vol. 3, p. 329.

17. Asad al-Ghaba, Ibn al-Athir; Vol. 2, p. 12.

18. Tafsir of al-Tabari; Vol. 22, p. 6.

19. Al-Dur al-Manthur, al-Suyuti; Vol. 5, p. 198.

20. Ta'rikh of Ibn Asakir; Vol. 1, p. 185.

21. Tafsir al-Kashshaf , al-Zamakhshari; Vol. 1, p. 193

22. Ahkam al-Qur'an , Ibn al-Arabi; Vol. 2, p. 166.

23. Tafsir al-Qurtubi, Vol. 14, p. 182.

24. Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqa of Ibn Hajar, p. 85.

25. Al-Isti'ab, Ibn Abd al-Barr; Vol. 3, p. 37.

26. Al-'Aqd al-Farid, Ibn 'Abd Rabbih; Vol. 4, p. 311

27. Muntakhab Kanz al-'Ummal; Vol. 5, p. 96.

28. Masabih al-Sunna, al-Baghawi, Vol. 2, p. 278.

29. Asbab al-Nuzul, al-Wahidi; p. 203.

30. Tafsir of Ibn Kathir; Vol. 3, p. 483.

SOURCE: http://www.al-islam.org/ask/3.html#1 - http://www.al-islam.org/ask/3.html#1

YES, This is a lifted from Al-Islam.org, however, it is very important to understand the difference here (and the real souce of conflict).

The Quran and the prophet do not say of any other group that they have been cleansed from all sin, except the Ahl al Bayt.

This is why the Shia give their allegiance to them without question, while our Sunni brothers and sisters do not. This is the crux of the issue. If our non-Shia brothers and sisters in Islam would follow the orders of the prophet and Quran on this point, there would be not reason for any Fitna.

Our Sunni brothers and sisters say that the Shia are the ones who supported the (acording to the Sunni) the Fourth Rightly Guided Khalipate when he was accused by some of the companions of complicity or participation in the killing of Uthman. In reality, the shia (in the sense of the meaning of this verse) existed even during the lifetime of the prophet, and recognized Imam Ali (a.s.) as the rightful successor to the prophet (a.s.) during the prophet (a.s.)'s lifetime.

This is why we call ourselves Shia, which is shorthand for Shia of Ahl al-Bait or Shia of Ali (which are equivelent for obvious reasons).

Salam

Salam unity 1,

Please reflect on the following verse from the Holy Quran

"He it is who has sent down upon thee the Book; in it are clear verses (muhkamat) , which are the mother of the Book, and others are ambiguous (mutashabihat). those in whose heart is sickness follow the ambiguous of them, seeking dissent and seeking their ta'wil, and none knows their ta'wil except Allah and those firmly grounded in knowledge. they say. 'We believe in it; all is from our Lord' ; yet none remembers but men possessed of minds."

(Surat Al'Imran, v.7)

According to the Shia, the phrase "those firmly grounded in knowledge" refers to the the Prophet (a.s.) and the Holy Imams from his household. However, even if you do not except this (and the famous Hadith which says "I leave among you two weighty things, The Holy Quran and my Ahl'al Bait, these two shall never part from eachother...), we must be very careful in doing our own tafseer of Quran. As far as I know, neither of us are religious scholars, nor we would consider ourselves to be among those "firmly grounded in knowledge" even in the common understanding of the term.

I have to admit, that I am becoming frustrated with the responses to my postings. I have invested considerable time and effort in documenting my sources of opinion as a courtesy to others and to allow a serious academic discussion. On the other hand if you review the responses to my posting, they can be catogrized as two types.

1.) Questions which are asked for the purpose of trying to cast doubt on the validity of my assertions.

2.) Non-scholarly opinion and speculation regarding the true meaning and interpretation of verses from the Holy Quran, Hadith and historical events.

As a courtesy, I would appreciate the following information in your responses.

1.) Instead of trying to "chip away" at my arguments based on you own opinions, please propose an ALTERNATIVE interpretation. This alternative should consider the points that I have made and offer another explanation that is not already addressed, or expand on something that has already been addressed. To just simply do your own tafseer of a verse and say that "it is obvious to anyone" is not what I am humbly asking for.

2.) PLEASE PROVIDE REFERENCES. All Muslims respect a scholarly opinion, and I am interested in hearing from those who are familiar with the works of scholars who have a different point of view.

If a person feels that his/her own knowledge is sufficient and that he does not need to resort to the guidance of knowledgeable persons, then the result is that his opinions will surely be a source only of misguidance to himself and others.

Assalaamu alaikum

If I may offer my (Islamically) inexperienced voice to the discussion�..

I have had Christian friends of mine question the crescent some Muslim�s use on the top of Masjids, & Minarets etc.

Their questions (in part) emanated from our discussions with regards to the symbolism used in Christianity (ie the cross), & what it signifies (ie Isa (AS) been crucified for all �your� sins�.. well I might as well relax, & sin as much as I can then!!!).

If I may politely bring to (lifelong) Muslim�s attention, the fact that many people (of ignorance) actually think Islam is the worship of some pagan moon god, as a direct result of the symbolisation they see!!!!! I have only read a little into where & when the crescent first started to be used, but the main point here is that, it (the crescent) plays no role of importance in Islam (the worship of Allah [SWT]), but does play a role in turning people away from Islam.

Small & unnecessary additions to Islamic �culture� such as the above, are widespread within modern Islamic culture. Self beating and mourning is just one of these.

The additions (that occur in many forms, & in many �sects�) may not necessarily (on an individual level) impede the participating people�s worship of Allah (SWT), but those actions certainly do effect how others (whether Muslim or not) perceive �their� religion, & hence have an indirect effect on how those very people are treated (although fearing Allah [SWT] should be sufficient reason to cease).

Suleyman, you are able to act as a witness for me on this topic, as you asked me to put something down that was unnecessary, as far as my worship of Allah (SWT) is concerned (ie changing the colour of my words, so as not to irritate your eyes).

I could have said no go away, I like doing it this way, but instead I gave up something that was fond to me, for the sake of the whole. I realised that the action emanated from my habitual tendencies (pride/ego), & was not compulsory (within my religion), hence I was able to lay it down, even if initially there was some � resistance.

Maybe I am asking too much for lifelong Muslim�s to learn from me?!

But that won�t stop me from pointing these things out!

Wasalaam

nadir     

dear brothers and sisters Salamun alaykum.I am a ne-revert to Islam after a long period of soul searching and reading. Islam is the most beautiful message of GOD.

After reading in-depth , after what happened after the demise of Holy Prophet (PBUH) , i concluded, that IMAM ALI is the rightly appointed successor to Holy Prophet and the followers of Imam Ali , have thus direct link to Holy Prophet.

Look at what Muawiyah did to Imam Ali....hundreds of people killed in Siffeen in the war against the RIGHTLY Appointed successor of Prophet. But I am amazed how my Sunni brothers and sisters just ignore this huge fact and still respect this person (muawiya)

Even if you look at the world today, True Islam is being represented by the teachings of Islamic Revolution in iran.

We have same book, same Allah, same Kaaba, same Prophet, but unfortunately, i have seen Salafis, curse and swear and label as Kafir 'other muslims". I have not met a single Shia brother or sister who will call others Kafir.

All this has led me to study Shia school deeply and I conlcuded that SHIAISM is the mainstream and the direct connection to Holy Prophet.

Another mind-boggling fact :

SON of Imam Ali, hussain gave up everything in karabala , when he was killed by Yazeed son of Muawiya.

But HOW MANY SUNNIS do we know who even respect and consider Imam hussain as a HERO of islam and condemn the killer army of yazid?

Despite the difference my shia -contacts urge me to join hands with other muslims based on our common points.

I just want to urge every one to be open and fair minded.

Long live Muslim Unity.

Salam Sister,

I'm sorry I don't have time (right now) to provide an adequate reply to your comments, however, I do want to say one thing in defense of our Sunni brothers.

In Egypt (a predominately Sunni country), you maybe surprised to know that there is a famous Masjid dedicated to Imam Hussien(a.s.). I believe it is in Cairo (but I may be mistaken). In fact, our Sunni brothers believe that the blessed head of our Imam is buried there. Tens of thousands our our Egyptian (mostly) Sunni brothers visit this mosque and weap over the tragedy of Karbala and curse the killers of the grandson of the Holy Prophet (a.s.)

In fact, most Sunni brothers do recognize that Yazid was an oppressor, and that what happened at Karbala was a tragedy. What the Sunnis say, however, is that the Shia go "too far" and are "too extreme" in morning for Imam Hussien (a.s.). While this is true in some cases (such as those who injure themselves), in general, this is a result of the suppression of the importance of the Imams by the Caliphates who came after the prophet because of their fear of being exposed as usurpers.

Maybe this issue is more important for one of our Sunni brothers to elaborate on (or maybe disagree with).

salams

Well, thanks for the information. I maybe have been biased by what i saw . I have some pakistani sunni friends , who consider Shia -kafirs.

similar is the deal with the brothers from saudi.

Again I stress today, the enemies of islam would love for us to attack each other.

Salam ala kum Firewall,

If you investigate the matter for yourself, you will see that the shirk (division) happened immediately after the death of Rasulallah (a.s.), and this division was caused by those who disobeyed the direct orders of the prophet given at Ghadir Khum (look it up, don't take my word for it), or, see the "Hmmmmm" topic in this forum (where much of the evidence and references are presented).

I have heard that it is illegal in Malaysia to claim that you are a Shia. If this is true, then I understand why you have this opinion. The most important (and primary) duty of every Muslim is to obey Allah and his messenger. If a person disobeys, then seperating from them is obiedience to Allah, not fitna.

Bismillah Ar Rahman Ar Rahim

Salams to br. Jello, Ali Zaki and others

WHO WINS WHEN THE MUSLIMS ARE DIVIDED?

In other words, who derives the benefit from this situation that we are currently in.

ANSWER:
The Kafirs, The Mushriks, and the Zionist enemies

So all of you, delight and others who have posted hate and baseless accusations against other muslims please explain yourselves and let me know what you are trying to accomplish....?

I haven't felt the need to respond until now, but this is getting ridiculous...!

If you believe that the Shias are Kafir or Mushrik, please make your argument, instead of just name calling. This forum has great potential to be a center of exchange of ideas and information amoung the followers of Prophet Muhammed(p.b.u.h), unless it is sidetracked by name calling, bad behaviour and propaganda. These should have no place in a forum, such as this, and the administrators of this site should enforce those policies. I do not believe in censorship, but I agree in enforcing policies regarding manners that are part of our religion. The Prophet Muhammed(p.b.u.h) taught us not to demeen, humiliate, or name call anyone, including the Kafir. So even if you believe that the Shias are Kafir, you still should not belittle, name call, or spread false accusations. This is according to the Prophet we both follow. As for me, I am a Muslim. I accepts the Jaafari school as my madthab. I also live in America, in Dearborn, Michigan and I go to Salat Jummah every Friday at the Islamic Center of America, the largest masjid in the United States. I do my Salat next to anyone who is next to me, and I don't ask if they are Shia or Sunni. By the way, there are many followers of Ahl Al Sunnah who attend this mosque and pray behind the Imam, who is a follower of the Jaafari school. So to all the name callers know this, even though you may hate me, I don't hate you. I consider you to be my brother and sister in Islam and would like to have these discussions continue, but without the hate, negativity, and backbiting,

wa salama

What ISLAM stays silent at this brutal Attack?

What will salafis say about this ?

Nineteen dead in suicide blast at Pakistan Muslim shrine

ISLAMABAD (AFP) - A suicide bomber blew himself up in the middle of a crowd of Shiite Muslims at a shrine close to the Pakistani capital, killing at least 19 people and injuring dozens, doctors and witnesses said.

http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=127u4il1t/M=327693.6212950.7267387.1442997/D=news/S=95959790:LREC/EXP=1117207940/A=2693407/R=3/id=noscript/SIG=10pi1r28g/*http://music.yahoo.com/">

Hundreds of pilgrims were celebrating an annual festival on Friday when the bomb exploded at the Bari Imam shrine, which is just north of Islamabad and near diplomatic and government buildings including the prime minister's residence.

"There were pools of blood everywhere and the bomb scattered body parts inside and outside the shrine. It was a very gory, sickening scene," Mohammed Amjad, a witness, told AFP.

The majority of the worshippers marking the anniversary of a 17th-century Muslim saint's death were members of Pakistan's minority Shiite community, witnesses said. In previous days the worshippers have been mainly Sunnis.

Thousands of Pakistani Shiite and majority Sunni Muslims have died in sectarian carnage in recent years through bomb blasts, suicide bombing and targeted killings. Last year 160 people died.

Police said they found a decapitated head lying on the floor of the shrine several yards away from a dead body after the latest bombing, which happened at about 11:20 am (0620 GMT).

"It seems to be a suicide attack. The investigators are going towards this," Pakistan's Information Minister Sheikh Rashid told AFP.

"It was an act of terrorism," Tariq Pirzada, a senior Islamabad administration official, told AFP, confirming that 19 people had died.

He said "there is strong suspicion" that a mutilated body at the scene belonged to a suicide bomber.

Pakistan's military ruler President Pervez Musharraf expressed "shock and profound grief" at the blast and ordered an inquiry to track down the culprits.

"The president strongly condemned the heinous act of terrorism and directed the concerned authorities to provide immediate relief and medical treatment to the injured," an official statement said.

The attack came as US Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia, Christina Rocca, visited Pakistan and hours before Islamic hardliners staged mass protests against alleged abuse of the Koran at the US detention centre in Guantanamo Bay.

Doctors said 18 bodies and 50 wounded people were taken to Islamabad's Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences hospital, while another body and six other wounded people arrived at City Hospital.

Polyclinic, a third hospital, said 23 injured were brought in, of whom eight were fighting for their lives.

"The congregation was in progress. Around 400 people were there, when a man walked in and started towards the stage where a Shiite leader was delivering a sermon," Amjad, the witness, said.

"When the man got close to the stage there was a big explosion and there was panic all around."

Worshippers in traditional Pakistani clothing wailed and beat themselves amid scenes of chaos after the blast.

The shrine, in the village of Nurpur, is dedicated to Sufi Muslim saint Shah Abdul Latif Kazimi, known as Bari Imam, who helped bring Islam to the region.

The Sunni custodian of the shrine and two other people were shot dead near the compound in February. Both sects claim the shrine is theirs but it has been controlled by Sunnis for the past two decades.

In March, 39 Sunni and Shiite devotees died in a blast at another Sufi shrine in the remote southwestern town of Fatahpur.

Traditional practices by Sufi Muslims, who follow a mystical branch of the religion, are frowned on by some conservatives and this week a number of religious scholars criticised the Bari Imam celebrations.

A group of senior Pakistani Muslim clerics this month declared as un-Islamic suicide bombings and attacks on ordinary citizens and places of worship

Salam Shakur,

As a regular Shia (12er, non-Scholar) I will give you my understanding of the Shia position on Uthman, which would generally apply to Abu Bakr, Omar and Uthman.

First, the disagreement between Shia and Sunni on the place of these individuals in Islamic history is not because of any hatred for these individuals or any personal animosity towards them. The problem is simply this;

Our Sunni brothers claim that the Prophet did NOT nominate his successor during his lifetime. As a result, it was neccessary for the Umma to select a successor to the prophet based on an electoral process. The Shia disagree with this, and present evidence for their claim (from sources accepted by both Shia and Sunni) of Imam Ali (a.s.) as the successor to the Prophet that was explicitly chosen by the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) during his lifetime. (see "Hmmmmm" topic on this forum).

Why does it matter?

The reason that this is important is because the Shia believe that the Prophet would not nominate someone who is not qualified to succeed him. Since the first three Caliphs were NOT choosen by the prophet (this we agree on), there is no evidence that they were actually qualified to fulfill the role of the Prophets (p.b.u.h.) successor. In fact, there are many unfortunate and tragic events that occurred during the time of the first three Caliphs, and particularly during the Caliphate of Uthman, that were a result of poor judgement and leadership. The Shia would say that the civil war that occurred within the Muslim community was a direct result of a lack of proper judgement and guidance by the first three Caliphs. This does not mean that that they had any bad intention, and Allah alone is the judge.

Assalaamu alaikum

Dear brother Ali Zaki,

Would you mind clarifying a muse of mine?

I see you take pride in the fact that you follow a path, which agrees with the Ahadith of the Prophet (SAW) with regards to the 12 Caliphs of Islam.

May I ask who is your current leader?

Many kind regards

midway

Peace to you, Midway

Our current leader is Imam Mahdi (May Allah hasten his return). Since you asked a direct question, this is the direct answer and more information can be provided upon request.

Ali Zaki wrote: Peace to you, Midway Our current leader is Imam Mahdi (May Allah hasten his return). Since you asked a direct question, this is the direct answer and more information can be provided upon request.

Whats the purpose of his leadership if he is hiding in cave for 1000year? A leader is one who is with the people. When the 1000year old shia mehdi comes out of his invisible hiding place thats when you can clime he is your curren leader. Ofcourse it would be something ells if your beliefs is that he is guiding you like the holy ghost is guiding the christians every day

Salams to all, Ayubi1187 wrote,

Whats the purpose of his leadership if he is hiding in cave for 1000year? A leader is one who is with the people. When the 1000year old shia mehdi comes out of his invisible hiding place thats when you can clime he is your curren leader. Ofcourse it would be something ells if your beliefs is that he is guiding you like the holy ghost is guiding the christians every day

This is really off the original topic that we are discussing. Although I thought about not responding, I will anyway. First point, If you are going to post on an English forum, please make some attempt to use proper grammar, spelling, and spaces. Second point, Imam Mehdi is not invisible. If you are claiming he is invisible (like in the movie, 'The Invisible Man'), please give your source for this as I have never heard of it.  He is living on earth, somewhere that is unknown to his followers at the current time. This is my understanding. If a knowledgeable person on this forum, such as Ali Zaki or jello , would like to expand further on this, I would like to listen. And third, your comparison of Imam Mehdi to the Holy Ghost shows that you know nothing about either Imam Mehdi or the Holy Ghost. I happen to be a muslim re-vert ( I was born as a Christian and reverted to Islam when I was 20 years old) and (In Shah Allah) a follower of Ahl Al Bayt, so I know a little about both. I will not go into the details about the fallacy of this comparison, as it will probably bore most readers of this forum. In breif, Christians believe that the Holy Ghost is the third entity in the triune god head commonly known as the Holy Trinity. The Holy Ghost (as the christians believe) guides by manifesting itself as a physical entity (i.e. flames on the Day of Pentacost) or as a spiritual force that is felt in the hearts of the faithful christian. Obviously, we (as muslims) reject the possibility of Allah(s.w.a) being subdivided into parts, and call this shirik. We also reject the idea that Allah(s.w.a) would manifest Himself in a physical form. To conclude this point, there can never be any comparison between the Christian doctrine of the Holy Spirit and any Islamic doctrine, including the doctrine of Imam Mehdi (May Allah hasten his return) because there is no equivalent doctrine in Islam that is similar to the Christian doctrine of the Holy Spirit. Since there is no equivalent main doctrine, as was just stated, there can be no equivalency in derived doctrine (i.e. guidance).

The fourth point is that is this: If you are so skeptical about the doctrine of Imam Mehdi, know that this is a widely held doctrine amoung muslims, both Shia and Sunni. Here is one of many sources for you to consider. If this is not sufficient, I will provide more...

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Even if the entire duration of the world's existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left (before the day of judgment), Allah will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person from my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then)."

Sunni References:

• Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v2, p86, v9, pp 74-75
• Sunan Abu Dawud, v2, p7
• Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,376; V3, p63
• al-Mustadrak ala al-Sahihayn, by al-Hakim, v4, p557
• Jami' al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti, pp 2,160
• al-Urful Wardi, by al-Suyuti, p2
• al-Majma', by al-Tabarani, p217
• Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v9, p144
• Fat'h al-Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar Asqalani, v7, p305
• al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p249
• al-Tathkirah, by al-Qurtubi, p617
• al-Hawi, by al-Suyuti, v2, pp 165-166
• Sharh al-Mawahib al-Ladunniyyah, by al-Zurqani, v5, p348
• Fat'h al-Mugheeth, by al-Sakhawi, v3, p41
• Kanz al-Ummal, v7 P186
• Iqd al-Durar Fi Akhbar al-Mahdi al-Muntadhar, v12, Ch. 1,
• al-Bayan fi Akhbar Sahib al-Zaman, By Ganji al-Shafi'i, Ch. 12
• al-Fusool al-Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh al-Maliki, Ch. 12
• Arjahul Matalib, by Ubaidallah Hindi al-Hanafi, p380
• Muqaddimah, by Ibn Khaldoon, p266
• and also in the works of Ibn Habban, Abu Nua'ym, Ibn Asakir, etc.

Abu Hadi wrote: Salams to all, Ayubi1187 wrote, Whats the purpose of his leadership if he is hiding in cave for 1000year? A leader is one who is with the people. When the 1000year old shia mehdi comes out of his invisible hiding place thats when you can clime he is your curren leader. Ofcourse it would be something ells if your beliefs is that he is guiding you like the holy ghost is guiding the christians every day This is really off the original topic that we are discussing. Although I thought about not responding, I will anyway. First point, If you are going to post on an English forum, please make some attempt to use proper grammar, spelling, and spaces. Second point, Imam Mehdi is not invisible. If you are claiming he is invisible (like in the movie, 'The Invisible Man'), please give your source for this as I have never heard of it.  He is living on earth, somewhere that is unknown to his followers at the current time. This is my understanding. If a knowledgeable person on this forum, such as Ali Zaki or jello , would like to expand further on this, I would like to listen. And third, your comparison of Imam Mehdi to the Holy Ghost shows that you know nothing about either Imam Mehdi or the Holy Ghost. I happen to be a muslim re-vert ( I was born as a Christian and reverted to Islam when I was 20 years old) and (In Shah Allah) a follower of Ahl Al Bayt, so I know a little about both. I will not go into the details about the fallacy of this comparison, as it will probably bore most readers of this forum. In breif, Christians believe that the Holy Ghost is the third entity in the triune god head commonly known as the Holy Trinity. The Holy Ghost (as the christians believe) guides by manifesting itself as a physical entity (i.e. flames on the Day of Pentacost) or as a spiritual force that is felt in the hearts of the faithful christian. Obviously, we (as muslims) reject the possibility of Allah(s.w.a) being subdivided into parts, and call this shirik. We also reject the idea that Allah(s.w.a) would manifest Himself in a physical form. To conclude this point, there can never be any comparison between the Christian doctrine of the Holy Spirit and any Islamic doctrine, including the doctrine of Imam Mehdi (May Allah hasten his return) because there is no equivalent doctrine in Islam that is similar to the Christian doctrine of the Holy Spirit. Since there is no equivalent main doctrine, as was just stated, there can be no equivalency in derived doctrine (i.e. guidance). The fourth point is that is this: If you are so skeptical about the doctrine of Imam Mehdi, know that this is a widely held doctrine amoung muslims, both Shia and Sunni. Here is one of many sources for you to consider. If this is not sufficient, I will provide more... The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: "Even if the entire duration of the world's existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left (before the day of judgment), Allah will expand that day to such a length of time, as to accommodate the kingdom of a person from my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then)." Sunni References: Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v2, p86, v9, pp 74-75 Sunan Abu Dawud, v2, p7 Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 84,376; V3, p63 al-Mustadrak ala al-Sahihayn, by al-Hakim, v4, p557 Jami' al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti, pp 2,160 al-Urful Wardi, by al-Suyuti, p2 al-Majma', by al-Tabarani, p217 Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v9, p144 Fat'h al-Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar Asqalani, v7, p305 al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p249 al-Tathkirah, by al-Qurtubi, p617 al-Hawi, by al-Suyuti, v2, pp 165-166 Sharh al-Mawahib al-Ladunniyyah, by al-Zurqani, v5, p348 Fat'h al-Mugheeth, by al-Sakhawi, v3, p41 Kanz al-Ummal, v7 P186 Iqd al-Durar Fi Akhbar al-Mahdi al-Muntadhar, v12, Ch. 1, al-Bayan fi Akhbar Sahib al-Zaman, By Ganji al-Shafi'i, Ch. 12 al-Fusool al-Muhimmah, by Ibn Sabbagh al-Maliki, Ch. 12 Arjahul Matalib, by Ubaidallah Hindi al-Hanafi, p380 Muqaddimah, by Ibn Khaldoon, p266 and also in the works of Ibn Habban, Abu Nua'ym, Ibn Asakir, etc.

Their is no need to write such lengthy explanation for something so simple. The similarity is ther your leader is not with you thats men he is leading you threw other means like the holy ghost do.

I think you are little confused when it comes to imam mehdi. We from ahlul-sunnah believe in the coming of Imam mehdi so no need to quote to me about that. I'm only objecting to the shia doctrine of imam mehdi who according to shia was alredy born and is hiding in invisible cave for 1000 year.

Salams to all,

According to the Shia doctrine, he is alive on earth. Whether he is in an invisible cave or not, noone knowns. If you believe in Imam Mehdi(May Allah(s.w.a.) hasten his return) then what is your objection to the Shia doctrine. Is is that he guides the ummah while not being manifest or that he has remained alive for over 1000 years ?

Abu Hadi wrote: Salams to all, According to the Shia doctrine, he is alive on earth. Whether he is in an invisible cave or not, noone knowns. If you believe in Imam Mehdi(May Allah(s.w.a.) hasten his return) then what is your objection to the Shia doctrine. Is is that he guides the ummah while not being manifest or that he has remained alive for over 1000 years ?

You can read from my post the objections we muslims have with the mythical shia mehdi who is still hiding after 1000 year to come out later to his shia, every thing about him is fishy . We muslims believe that its big scam on part of some shia to deceive and misguide people. We have sen allot of mehdis in the history of islam and the last one who claimed to be mehdi was Ghulam Ahmad.

We muslims believe that its big scam on part of some shia to deceive and misguide people.

A couple of interesting things in this statement that I would like to bring to the attention of other forum members.

1.) "We muslims believe...big scam on the part of some Shia..."

Of course, this implies that this individual considers Shia's to be non-Muslims. If this is the case, maybe you should continue this discussion on an Al-Quida, or other Wahabbi website.

2.) "We muslims..." Amazing that someone could claim to be speaking for all Muslims. I can only imagine that this could be the case if Ayubi1187 considers the "Muslims" to be a very small group. If so, then see above comment for suggested alternate discussion location.

3.) Since noone is claiming that the 12th Imam has come our of occultation, then how could this proposition provide an mechanism "to deceive and misguide people". After all, how could an "invisible man" living, " in a cave somewhere" be an effective propoganda tool. Ayubi1187 must think that us "non-Muslims" are pretty uncreative.

For those who wish to know, I included some hadith on this topic,"

"Fatima Zahra(a.s.) told her son Husayn(a.s.):

When I gave birth to you, the Prophet came to see me. He took you in his hands and said to me: "O Fatima, take your Husayn, and know that he is the father of nine Imams. From his descendants will appear righteous leaders among whom the ninth will be the Qa'im." http://al-islam.org/mahdi/nontl/Chap-2.htm#n20 - [20]
Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 2, p. 552."

"Whoever acknowledges all the Imams, but denies the existence of the Mahdi, is like the one who acknowledges all the prophets but denies the prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Someone asked him (Imam Jafar aSadiq (a.s.) : "Among whose descendants is the Mahdi?" The Imam responded:

The fifth progeny of the seventh Imam [Musa Kazim] will be the Mahdi. However, he will disappear. It is not proper for you to name him. http://al-islam.org/mahdi/nontl/Chap-2.htm#n25 - [25] "

Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, p. 143; Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 2, p. 404

There are many, many more. I have only included these two to conserve space, and because I know that many of our Sunni brothers claim to accept Hadith from these persons (although they do not specifiy which sources they accept for there hadiths. Again, both these hadith are considered reliable by Shia Ulama (I do not know what the Sunni scholars say about them, however).

Br. Ayubi1187

REGARDING THE HADITH QUOTED FROM Bihar Al-Anwar and Ithbat Al-Hudat

I quoted these Hadith because they are very clear. If I show you hadith from mainstream Sunni transmitters that clarify this topic for you will you accept the authority of Imam Mahdi?

Assalam-alaikum!

For the first time I have read this thread. I was curious about why the Shias beat themselves and seem to be in mourning most of the time wearing black etc, but reading this whole discussion I am really startled by the complications that have been brought into our simple and easy to understand and follow religion - Islam!

It is all the more startling that when Abu Hadi writes: According to the Shia doctrine, he is alive on earth. Whether he is in an invisible cave or not, noone knowns. If you believe in Imam Mehdi(May Allah(s.w.a.) hasten his return) then what is your objection to the Shia doctrine. Is is that he guides the ummah while not being manifest or that he has remained alive for over 1000 years ?

We seek Allah's guidance which has been made clear to us in the Qur'an and not some Mehdi who is supposed to be hiding and guiding (Astaghfirullah) from a cave. What dimensions people give to Islam!  Allah, Most Compassionate and Merciful guide everyone of us to the Right Path and unite us Muslims to follow the straight way Ameen!

Salam brother Tasneem,

Islam is simple, but not "simple-minded". Islam is easy to follow, but encourages it's followers to continue to increase their knowledge of all useful things, including religion. Allah judges us only based on our level of knowledge, but does not excuse those who "stick their heads in the sand".

REGARDING IMAM MAHDI (May Allah hastend his return)

I do now wish to comment extensively on this subject, as it requires a certain amount of pre-requisite knowledge to understand. Allah is the source of all authority, and Allah gave some of authority to the Holy Messenger(a.s.) by his will. The Prophet (a.s.) in turn designated a Wali during his lifetime and gave some of his "God-given" authority to his Wali (as was the practice of previous prophets). The Wali, during his lifetime, also designated his successor and passed the authority (Wasi) to him, etc, etc....and then to Imam Mahdi (who is hidden at this time, although we don't know the details of this and we cannot communicate with him directly). None of this is "Bidah" (and innovation) and is all supported extensively by Quran and Hadith.

If you would like to know more, see the "Hmmmm." topic in this forum, starting on page 5, or, many other sources of information are avilable upon request.

Salam

Wa-alaikum-Salaam

Mr Ali Zaki you have responded to one of my posts before when you stunned me (and perhaps many believers) when you ridiculed my post that conveyed the message of �Tauhid� under the thread �Islam for a Buddhist�. Despite being shocked that a believing Muslim could write this I ignored you assuming that you are a new revert who is still in the process of learning. Now that you have made it clear that you follow the Shia faith which baffles me on many fronts and because you have once more come forward to respond to my post I have a number of questions for you. I would also welcome input from any other Shia members.

Allah has said in Sura Al-Kahf:

018.001: Praise be to Allah, Who hath sent to His Servant the Book, and hath allowed therein no Crookedness:

018.002: (He hath made it) Straight (and Clear) in order that He may warn (the godless) of a terrible Punishment from Him, and that He may give Glad Tidings to the Believers who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a goodly Reward,

018.054: We have explained in detail in this Qur'an, for the benefit of mankind, every kind of similitude: but man is, in most things, contentious.

003.007: He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

Salam Tasneem,

I think maybe you misunderstood my post under "Islam and Buddism". The verses you quoted from Quran establish GENERAL PRINCIPLES which are clear and unambigous. The APPLICATION of those GENERAL PRINCIPLES to a SPECIFIC individual (i.e., to say " he/she is going to hell, or, this group or that group is going to hell (other then those specifically mentioned in Quran such as the people of Pharoah) is what I was refering to. I won't spend alot of time on this, as this is not the appropriate thread for that discussion and Sunni and Shia do not disagree on this principle.

LET ME GO THROUGH YOUR QUESTIONS ONE BY ONE

1.)  The Shias practise �matam� or beating the chest to mourn the death of Hazrat Ali, Hassan and Hussain. ...

First of all, the practice of "beating the chest", "hitting the forehead", "self-mutilation", etc. are all cultural practices that the Shia Ulama unanimously agree are HARAM if they cause harm to the individual. However, the concept of the annual mouring the dealth (murder) of Imam Ali and Imam Hussain (I am not aware of any specific practices related to the martyrdom of Imam Hassan, however) is, of course, central to Shiism.

Of course, you will not find any Hadith (that would be acceptable to a Sunni) from the Prophet (a.s.) or anything in the Holy Quran that explicitly call for this type of ritual. As a result, many of our Sunni brothers accuse of us of "exageration" or even "creating innovations" in the religion by practicing these rituals.

One of the most concise and comprehensive statements regarding the importance of remembering Imam Husayn (a.s.) and the events of Karbala was made by the Imam (a.s.) himself, when he said,

" Imam Husayn ('a) says, "I have risen up to carry out amr bil ma'ruf, to revive the faith, and to struggle against corruption. My movement is one which is Islamic and aimed at reform." 

So the rememberance of Imam Husayn (and the same applies to Imam Ali (a.s.)) cannot be compared with a typical funeral and mourning period. Let me explain using the words of the Imam (a.s.).

" I have risen up to carry our amr bil ma'ruf"

"Do not follow those who have forgotten mention of Me and pursue their own fancies." (18:27) 

Today, the anti-Islamic behavior, both in his personal life and his actions as "Caliphate" of Yazid ibn Muawiyah are well know (ie., drinking alchohol in public, incest, playing with monkeys, etc.). However, at the time of Imam Husayn (a.s.), these things were known by only a small group of people due to lack of any effective opposition movement. In Imam Husayn (a.s.) refusing to pay allegience to such a person, he was educating the Umma about the neccessity of not following such a person, as supported by numerous verses of Quran, Hadith, etc.

"to revive the faith, and the struggle against corruption"

It is well known that due to the lack of proper leadership of the Muslim Umma during the Caliphate of Muawiya, the Muslim Umma was largely unaware of many of the truth of Islam. Such practices as cursing Imam Ali (a.s.) from pulpit, fabrication of Hadith and exiling or executing prominant companions of the Prophet such as (Abu Tharr) had weakened the faith of the majority of the Muslims and "paved the road" for the spread of corruption and innovation. Imam Husayn stood firmly for the religion of Islam as preached by his grandfather, and reawakened the Muslim Umma of the time to the true, original Islam.

In regards to the struggle against corruption, this applies today as well. When Shia today celebrate Ashura, we are reminded of the neccessity of stading aginst corrpution and stading for justice for all mankind.

I can answer this question in more detail, if you like.

I have asked many times for authentic sources that the Sunni will accept of eyewitness acconts of the events at Karbala and Sham. Since we both agree that the event occured, why no credible sources for information. I have previously quoted the speech of Imam Hussien, and was accused of spreading fabricated traditions. However, no alternate sources have been provided. I have yet to receive any reply from our Sunni brothers regarding my request.

2.) Regarding the proof in Quran and Hadith for the identity and person of Imam Mahdi.

There are no Ayat of Quran (that I am aware of) that address this issue.

Hadith

FROM IMAM ALI (a.s.)

" The promised Mahdi will emerge at the End of Time from among us. There is no Mahdi in any nation other than him being awaited." Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 7, p. 147. There are 50 similar reports from Imam Ali (a.s.)

Ibid., Vol. 2, pp. 333, 399; Majlisi, Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, p. 133. There are thirteen more traditions reported from Imam Husayn.

The fifth progeny of the seventh Imam [Musa Kazim] will be the Mahdi. However, he will disappear. It is not proper for you to name him."

Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, p. 143; Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 2, p. 404. There are one hundred and twenty-three additional traditions reported on the authority of al-Sadiq.

Of course, all of these traditions are from the Imams themselves (and from authentic Shia sources). There are two problems with discussing these issues with our Sunni brothers.

1.) SOURCES. Again, our Sunni brothers claims to respect and love the Ahly Al'Bayt (Imam Ali (a.s.), Imam Hussien (a.s.)), however, they will not accept our hadith from them and they will not present any alternative collection of authentic Hadith from them. As a result, they treat them like those people who have a very lovely, expensive Quran in their home that is never actually opened or read.

2.) Their are many Hadith from Imam Jarar As'Sadiq regarding the identity of Imam Mahdi, however, again our Sunni brothers do not accept our hadith from him (although they claim to accept his scholarly status, in general) and do not present any alternative collection of hadith . As a result, the Imam is respected but wholly ignored on these issues.

This is what I meant by pre-requisite knowedge. A person must accept (first) the Immate of Imam Ali (a.s), then that of his progeny, otherwise, this point cannot be logically discussed. (for the above reasons)

3.) REGARDING "Mutah" (temporary marriage).

This is simple to explain. It is well known that this was practiced during the lifetime of the Prophet, and it was never abrogated (nullified) by him. Omar said that this practice was allowed during the time of the prophet but I am aborgating it. Not even Imam Ali (a.s.), is able to (nor did he ever attempt to) alter the Sunnah of the Prophet. Who, then, gave Omar the authority to do it?

Salam,

 

Assalam-alaikum Mr Ali Zaki

Thankyou for the explanation. The first and foremost source of guidance for a Muslim is the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet Mohammed (SAW). In your response you say that all the practises discussed above are supported by the Qur'an and (Hadith), but I am disappointed that you have not quoted any verse from the Qur'an to support your argument.

"Do not follow those who have forgotten mention of Me and pursue their own fancies." (18:27)�

I am not sure where you got this from. Verse 18:27 in the Qur�an is

�And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him.� 018.027

018.103: Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-

018.104: Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"

Salam to Tasneem,

REGARDING QURAN VERSE QUOTED

"Do not follow those who have forgotten mention of Me and pursue their own fancies." (18:27)�

The site that I got this from is not down right now. I will have to research this further and get back to you. They may have misquoted the reference.

You said,

" The first and foremost source of guidance for a Muslim is the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet Mohammed (SAW)."

I'm not sure why this sentence (this idea) is being continually repeated, as is there is some disagreement. If we cannot depend on those such as Iman Ali (a.s.), who is known as the gate to the city of the knowledge of the Prophet and Imam Hussien (a.s.), his grandson who is a member of his purified progeny and Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (a.s.) to convey the principles of Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (a.s.), then who can we turn to? Abu Harirah?

I have asked numerous times for Sunni sources on the events of Karbala. Do you know of any accurate sources of information that are depended on by the Sunni's?

REGARDING MUTAH

According to Ayatullah Khamenei

" Temporary marriage like permanent marriage, requires a marriage contract. Moreover there is no difference between permanent marriage and temporary marriage except in some aspects of the law, such as there is no divorce in temporary marriage - it terminates with the expiration of the time period. Likewise, neither spouse in a temporary marriage inherits from the other. The temporary marriage contract is as follows: The woman says: " I marry myself to you for the specified dowry (mention the amount) and for the specified time period (mention the time period)". Then the man says: "I accept". 
3) According to obligatory precaution, for the marriage of a virgin girl it is a condition to obtain her guardian�s (father or paternal grandfather) permission. "

SOURCE: http://www.khamenei.de/fatwas/further.htm#temporarymarriage - http://www.khamenei.de/fatwas/further.htm#temporarymarriage

TO SUMMARIZE;

Custody in Temporary Marriage: same as Permanent Marriage

Idat (mandatory waiting period); same as Permanent Marriage

Prohibition against marriage based on Lust; same as Permanent Marriage

TWO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PERMANENT AND TEMPORARY MARRIAGE

1.) No Divorce- Marriage terminates automatically after a specified time period.

2.) No Inheritance: Spouses do not inherit from eachother.

Most of the arguments that I have heard against temporary marriage could also be applied to permanent marriage. There is, in reality, very little difference between the two types of marriage.

- Regarding Single Parent families- This term is a western one, and has a western connotation. Since there is no divorce in temporary marriage, there is no questions of the child being in a "divorced" family. The father is still financially responsible for his children (as in permanent marriage w/divorce). In regards to the father and mother not living together, there are many practical solutions to this problem, as would apply to a divorce situation. Obviously, most people that enter into a permanent marriage do not intend to get divorced, as most temporary marriage is not with the intention of having children.

The most commont argument against temporary marriage is that is "legalized prostitution". I don't know about that, I think any prostitute would have a hard time making a living if she had to wait three months between each temporary marriage.

Sadly you are unable to quote any verse from the Qur'an that sanctions this hideous practise. I have not heard of this practise in Islam or amongst the Christians, the Jews, the Hindus, the Buddhists or any other faith. You seem educated yet, I do not understand how you can justify such pagan practises. All along I have been asking you to quote the verses of the Qur'an and with difficulty you come up with one verse without the proper reference and the source from where you picked this verse mysteriously disappears.

Your wrote : "Obviously, most people that enter into a permanent marriage do not intend to get divorced, as most temporary marriage is not with the intention of having children."

Isn't this shameful and sinful?  The Qur'an has never sanctioned such a practise and because you are unable to give me a verse from the Qur'an which is clear and easy to understand, you conveniently lay the blame on Imam Ali, Hassan Hussain etc.

In all my posts I only refer to the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet Mohammed (SAW). Whereas you are confrontational in this discussion by bringing in Umar and Abu Huraira etc which are not part of the Qur'an or Sunnah. There are a number of issues I would have liked to discuss but I am shocked that you defend what is haram by legalising prostitution under the name of "mutah".

A Muslim is one who obeys the Commands of Allah as specified in the Qur'an. I am of the opinion that others who are on this site are here either to learn about Islam or to have a sincere dialogue. But you have been advising people or accusing posts of those who follow mainstream Islam.  I think this is a site about mainstream Islam ie those who follow the Qur'an and Sunnah (also known as sunnis). Moderators correct me if I am wrong. I wouldn't be posting messages to those who come here to learn about Islam if this is/was a shia site.

Salam Tasneem,

REGARDING TEMPORARY MARRIAGE BEING THE SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET (A.S.)

Before quoting Sunni sources which definately establish that temporary marriage was part of the Sunna of the prophet, I would like to clarify one thing. I AM NOT HERE TO ENCOURAGE THIS PRACTICE. It is clear from the Quran and Sunnah that permanent marriage is the best solution for all men and women, and that temporary marriage is for those situations where permanent marriage or (second best) abstienance is not possible. I reapeat, PERMANENT MARRIAGE IS BETTER THAN TEMPORARY MARRIAGE, ABSTEINANCE IS BETTER THAN TEMPORARY MARRIAGE. This is also in the Quran and Sunna.

Also, there are (unfortunately) Muslims that ABUSE temporary marriage, and use it incorrectly and for lustful purposes. The same applies to Muslim men who marry more than one wife permanently (which Sunni and Shia agree is permissable).

However, it is not right to say that it is haram. Here are the references from Sunni scholars which establish this.

After a brief overview of books of Tafsir in Part I, let us now look at some of the Sunni collections of traditions. It is narrated in Sahih Muslim that:

Jabir Ibn Abdullah and Salama Ibn al-Akwa' narrated: There came to us the proclaimer of Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) and said: "Allah's Messenger has granted you to benefit yourself (Istamta'u), i.e., to contract temporary marriage with women."

In the above tradition the verb Istamta'a (to enjoy; to have pleasure) has been used which is the exact form of the verb used in Quran in the verse of Mut'a 4:24, and moreover, Jabir said in the above tradition that Istamta'a means performing Mut'a of women (temporary marriage).

Sunni references:

• Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, chapter DXLI (titled: Temporary Marriage), Tradition #3246
• Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v2, p1022, Tradition #13, "Kitab al-Nikah, Bab Nikah al-Mut'a"

HERE'S MORE;

" Salama Ibn al-Akwa' and Jabir Ibn Abdullah reported: Allah's Messenger (May peace be upon him) came to us and permitted us to contract temporary marriage. "

Sunni references:

• Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, chapter DXLI (titled: Temporary Marriage), Tradition #3247
• Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v2, p1022, Tradition #14, "Kitab al-Nikah, Bab Nikah al-Mut'a"

"The Verse of Mut'a was revealed in Allah's Book, so we did it at the time of Allah's Apostle, and nothing was revealed in Quran to make it illegal, nor did the Prophet prohibit it till he died. But a man (who regarded it illegal) expressed what his own mind suggested."

[ Note: For the above Hadith, the Saudi translator of Sahih al-Bukhari (Muhammad Muhsin Khan) has changed the word "Mut'a" to "Hajj-at-Tamatu". This is while in the Arabic text of the Hadith of al-Bukhari which is beside the English text, the word "Mut'a" has been used alone: ]

Sunni references:

• Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v6, Hadith #43
• Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic, v2, p375, v6, p34
• Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v4, p436 on the authority of 'Imran Ibn al-Qasir

HOW'S ABOUT ANOTHER ONE

Abu Nadhra said: Ibn Abbas commanded to do Mut'a while Ibn Zubair forbade to do it. I mentioned this to Jabir Ibn Abdillah and he said: It is through me that this Hadith has been circulated. We did Mut'a (of Hajj and women) at the time of the Messenger of Allah. When Umar was installed as Caliph, he said: Verily Allah made permissible for his Messenger whatever He like and as He liked. And its command was revealed in Quran. Thus accomplish Hajj and Umra for Allah as Allah has commanded you, and confirm (by reverting to permanent marriage) the marriages of those women (with whom you have performed Mut'a). And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (i.e. Mut'a) I would stone him.

Sunni references:

• Sahih Muslim, English version, v2, chapter CDXLII, Tradition #2801
• Sahih Muslim, Arabic version, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, v2, p885, Tradition #145.

Let me know if you need more. By the way, this is NOT a Shia site (as far as I know). Also, if you want to have a discussions only with people that agree with you, this is called preaching (or lecturing), not a discussion.

Salam

Mr Ali Zaki

Anything and everything can be concocted except the one and only SOURCE which Allah has promised to preserve - the QUR'AN. If I dispute with you about your sources of information and then I go and obtain similar sources of information that have been collected by Sunni scholars you are bound to oppose me. The safest and the most & only reliable grounds where each of us should agree is the Qur'an. Not a single letter from this Holy Treasure of ours has been changed. So let us rely on this and let us only rely on what has been made plain and easy for us to understand.

013.036 :Those to whom We have given the Book rejoice at what hath been revealed unto thee: but there are among the clans those who reject a part thereof. Say: "I am commanded to worship Allah, and not to join partners with Him. Unto Him do I call, and unto Him is my return."

013.037:Thus have We revealed it to be a judgment of authority in Arabic. Wert thou to follow their (vain) desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither protector nor defender against Allah.

Assalam-alaikum Mr Ayyubi

Thankyou for your input and I appreciate it. Re: "as usual shia respond with that Ali(ra) and other imams where doing taqiya(lying), as reported in shia hadith imam jafar sadiq(ra) said "Nine tenths of religion(shiism) is taqiyyah(lying)" 
 I do not understand why lying is valued by Shias. Does the word "Taqiyyah" have any other meaning as they understand it?

JazakAllahkhair Brother

I am very ignorant when it comes to these various sects and it is so unfortunate that despite having the single Book, the Source of all guidance that we have so many sects. It must be sounding odd that I play the same tune ie about reading the Qur'an and obeying Allah & His Apostle, but it is the only way to unity for the Muslims. I wish people would give up their ignorance and make time to read and understand Allah's words, rather than follow their heros.

Reading the last quote in your post reminds of a similar verse in the Qur'an, exactly what we are forbidden to do. I can't understand how anyone can be attracted to a sect/religion and support it so strongly despite not being able to make any sense of it.

Salam brother Tasneem,

You asked

" I do not understand why lying is valued by Shias. Does the word "Taqiyyah" have any other meaning as they understand it? "

Here is some information on Taquiyah, which is an Islamic concept and has nothing (specifically) to do with the Shia.

Taqiyyah (definition)=  to safeguard; to defend; to fear; piety (because it saves one from the displeasure of Allah).

" He who disbelieves in Allah after his belief in Him, (is the liar) except he who is compelled while his heart remains steadfast with the faith (has nothing worry). But who opens his breast for infidelity; on these is wrath of Allah, and for them is a great torment. [1]

Wa-alaikum-Salaam

Mr Ali Zaki you wrote: REGARDING RELIANCE ON QURAN ALONE

I find your argument strange (if you are a Sunni) as the word Sunni derives from the people of the "Sunna" of the prophet. As you know, the Holy Quran is (primarily) a book of religious principles and general guidance. If we ignore the "Sunnah"  (customs, traditions, etc.) of our Holy Messenger, then we would not even be sure about the exact method of prayer, which is wajib for all Muslims.

You find my argument strange because you have not understood what I mean by following the Qur�an alone. When you follow the Qur�an alone you should follow every message that Allah has conveyed to you without choosing what you wish to follow and what you wish to leave out. Allah has made it very clear to us in the Qur�an that we must follow His Apostle Muhammad (SAW):

058.020: Those who resist Allah and His Messenger will be among those most humiliated

065.011: A  Messenger, who rehearses to you the Signs of Allah containing clear explanations, that he may lead forth those who believe and do righteous deeds from the depths of Darkness into Light. And those who believe in Allah and work righteousness, He will admit to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: Allah has indeed granted for them a most excellent Provision.

002.121: Those to whom We have sent the Book study it as it should be studied: They are the ones that believe therein: Those who reject faith therein,- the loss is their own.

047.024: Do they not then earnestly seek to understand the Qur'an, or are their hearts locked up by them?

047.025: Those who turn back as apostates after Guidance was clearly shown to them,- the Evil One has instigated them and busied them up with false hopes.

036.069: We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:

003.007: He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.

Assalaamu alaikum

Dear brother Ali Zaki,

You stated: �Our current leader is Imam Mahdi (May Allah hasten his return). Since you asked a direct question, this is the direct answer and more information can be provided upon request.�

Excuse my ignorance, but does your statement �(May Allah hasten his return)� mean that (the Shia version of) Imam Mahdi has already lived here on earth? (I assume you are not talking about Isa {AS})

You seem to be a good man, hence please do not take any personal offence in the following questions, I simply ask them as I have a few doubts about Shia Muslim�s�..

What do you think of the fact that Shia�s �worship� the shrine of Imam Ali {AS}.

May I also ask you what you think about the �self beating  & mourning� that Shia�s partake in?

Kind regards

nadir

Alakum Salam Midway,

All respectfully phrased questions are welcomed! Only those who have something to hide are afraid of being questioned!

As for your first question, the reference of Imam Mahdi (may Allah hasten his return) does NOT refer to Nabi Isa (a.s.), although we (like the Sunni) believe he will return to the earthly plane of existence at the same time as the Imam.

Here are some traditions (from Shia collections of Hadith) regarding the Qaim (the Awaited One).

"Fatima Zahra told her son Husayn:

When I gave birth to you, the Prophet came to see me. He took you in his hands and said to me: "O Fatima, take your Husayn, and know that he is the father of nine Imams. From his descendants will appear righteous leaders among whom the ninth will be the Qa'im."

Ithbat al-hudat, Vol. 2, p. 552.

Husayn b. 'Ali said:

Twelve Imams will be from among us. The first among them will be 'Ali b. Abi Talib and the last will be my ninth descendant, the rightful Qa'im. Because of his blessed existence God will bring back the dead earth to life and prosperity. God will give victory to His religion over all other religions, even if this be against the liking of the disbelievers. The Mahdi will disappear from public for a while. During his occultation a number of people will abandon religion, whereas others will remain steadfast and will suffer because of their faith. This latter group will be asked tauntingly: "If your belief is true, when would your promised Imam rise?" But, remember that whoever perseveres under those unfavorable circumstances when enemies would falsify and harm them, their status will be like those who fought by the side of the Prophet in defending the religion of God."

Bihar al-anwar, Vol. 51, p. 133.

For a complete listing of similar hadith, see the following site: http://al-islam.org/mahdi/nontl/Chap-2.htm - http://al-islam.org/mahdi/nontl/Chap-2.htm

The Shia belief is that the 12th Imam has already been born (i.e., was the son of the 11th Imam, Imam Hasan 'Askari (a.s.)) and is currently absent from the earthly plane of existence (i.e., in occultation).

Regarding you second question ("What do you think of the fact that Shia�s �worship� the shrine of Imam Ali {AS}.") this is a common misconception among non-Shia. The Shia do not worship anything other than Allah (s.w.a.), and do not associate any partners for him. The Shia do, however, has a strong spritual feeling for/connection with Imam Ali (a.s.) and do believe that the Imams are "alive" ("Do not imagine those who have been killed in God's path to be dead; rather they are alive and receive sustenance in the presence of their Lord" (3:169).) and can be "visited" (i.e., Ziara), however, this does not mean they have some type of physical presence at their shrines. In fact, one can perform Ziara from anywhere, however, it is preferable for the worshiper to "visit" them at their shrine for obvious reasons. The Prophet (a.s.) and the Imams were only loyal and obiedient servents of Allah (s.w.a.), as they said themselves, and were given their lofty stature only by the will of Allah (s.w.a.)

Regarding your third question, this is also very common. If you would like to know more about why the Shia commemorate the death of Imam Husayn (a.s.), and it's importance there are many comprehensive references. In short, the purpose of the mourning of the death of Imam Husayn is an everlasting lesson of what it means to "enjoin the good and forbid the evil".

" Mahmoud Ayoub in his study of the devotional aspects of 'Ashura', Redemptive Suffering in Islam, justifiably interprets the Imam's message to Muslims as a call for enjoining good and prohibiting evil. In a will he made to Muhammad ibn Hanafiyyah while departing from Makkah, the Imam declares: 

Indeed, I have not risen up to do mischief, neither as an adventurer, nor to cause corruption and tyranny. I have risen up solely to seek the reform of the Ummah of my grandfather (S). I want to command what is good and stop what is wrong, and (in this) I follow the conduct of my grandfather and my father, 'Ali ibn Abi Talib.

In a letter that he wrote to the people of Kufah, in a short sentence he outlines the Islamic concept of a worthy ruler: 

By my life, the leader is one who acts in accordance with the Scripture, upholds justice in society, conducts its affairs according to what is righteous, and dedicates his self to God. Was-salam."

SOURCE: http://al-islam.org/al-tawhid/default.asp?url=paradigm-akhtar.htm - http://al-islam.org/al-tawhid/default.asp?url=paradigm-akhta r.htm

If you would like to know more about this subject, I recommend http://al-islam.org/short/Karbala.htm - http://al-islam.org/short/Karbala.htm

As for the "beating" or "self-multilation", these are mainly cultural, not religious practices that have particular significance to the way in which mourning is carried out in various cultures. Islam does not prohibit cultural practices, unless they disagree with Islam. The Shia Ulama unanimously agree that is haram to injure yourself, and this also applies to mourning for Imam Hussein (a.s.).

Salam