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Why would Allah do this?

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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: General Islamic Matter
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URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12286
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Topic: Why would Allah do this?
Posted By: believer
Subject: Why would Allah do this?
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 4:58am
 
Doesn't he dislike hypocrites?
 
002.010
YUSUFALI: In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
PICKTHAL: In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
SHAKIR: There is a disease in their hearts, so Allah added to their disease and they shall have a painful chastisement because they
 
YHWH is holy how does a HOLY GOD do bad?  Wouldn't this be a sin if a human caused another to be a hypcrite? 


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.



Replies:
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 10:23am
Why does YHVH allow priest to molest little boys when nobody is around? Sych rdiculous and redundant questions cannot be answered by people and clergy.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 3:31pm
Irsafil  - in your sentence is the differance  you said "why does YWHW allow", the Quran says that Allah increases the disease of their hearts.
 
See the difference?
 
Why would Allah do this?


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 18 April 2008 at 4:40pm
believer, your question and Israfil's is the same, there is no difference but the name of God.
 
Why would Allah do this? yes well that is religion at times ;) confusing eh??
 


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~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 12:11am

 I would like to use this oppurtunity to share with our members intrested in studying Islam. The verse quoted above in the post, is of Chapter Al-Baqarah, in which , Allah at first tells us that this Book i.e The Holy Quran is a source of  guidance for only the pious and righteous persons . Then the attributes of Believers are expalined that they believe in Oneness of Allah, believe in the unseen, Perform  salah, and spend out of which Allah bestowed them with. Four Ayat at the beginning of Surat Al-Baqarah describe the believers, two describe the disbelievers, and thirteen describe the hypocrites. The four Ayat mentioned in this statement are general and include every believer, whether an Arab, non-Arab, or a person of a previous Scripture, whether they are Jinns or humans. All of these attributes complement each other and require the existence of the other attributes. For instance, it is not possible that one believes in the Unseen, performs the prayer and gives Zakah without believing in what the Messenger of Allah and the previous Messengers were sent with. And then the disbelievers are described. Now, comes those 13 verses related to hypocrisy, one of which is that quoted above. Let us learn it in detail.

 Allah begins to describe the hypocrites who show belief and hide disbelief. Since the matter of the hypocrites is vague and many people do not realize their true reality, Allah mentioned their description in detail. Each of the characteristics that Allah used to described them with is a type of hypocrisy itself.

8. And of mankind, there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day'' while in fact they do not believe
9. They try to deceive Allah and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!

i.e the hypocrites show belief outwardly while concealing disbelief. They think that by doing this, they will mislead Allah, or that the statements they utter will help them with Allah, and this is an indication of their total ignorance. They think that such behavior will deceive Allah, just as it might deceive some of the believers. Allah says in an other chapter , " Verily, the hypocrites try to deceive Allah, but it is He Who deceives them".

Then comes the verse 10, ". In their hearts is a disease and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies" - Disease' here refers to the disease of hypocrisy, the doubt that they bought to  Islam. The statement that 'Allah has intensified this disease' means that He does not punish the hypocrites immediately but allows them to indulge in their hypocrisy and exult in the success of their ruses. This feeling of success intensifies their hypocrisy,  thus  increased them in shameful behavior.. Hope it is now understood. The next two verses describe them further. Let us read them as a reminder


11. And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'
12. Verily, they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not

Ibn Jarir said, "The hypocrites commit mischief on earth by disobeying their Lord on it and continuing in the prohibited acts. They also abandon what Allah made obligatory and doubt His religion, even though He does not accept a deed from anyone except with faith in His religion and certainty of its truth. The hypocrites also lie to the believers by saying contrary to the doubt and hesitation their hearts harbor. They give as much aid as they can, against Allah's loyal friends, and support those who deny Allah, His Books and His Messengers. This is how the hypocrites commit mischief on earth, while thinking that they are doing righteous work on earth.''

Since the outward appearance of the hypocrite displays belief, he confuses the true believers. Hence, the deceitful behavior of the hypocrites is an act of mischief, because they deceive the believers by claiming what they do not believe in, and because they give support and loyalty to the disbelievers against the believers.

Thank you "Believer" for your question. Alhamdullilah { All Praises be to Allah } we cud learn a lot today.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 12:13am

And yes, the above commentary was from Ibn Katheer and Maulana Madudi's Tafseer.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 6:37am
Excellent Seekshidayath Approve

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 9:28am
Although its an excellent point brought up by Seek, I believe believer, needed more of an explanation than a long drawn out post. Believer-
you have basically confirmed my point although you don't know it yet you are making an attempt show the direct violation of freewill in Islam by using the statement Allah increases....and so. In either case upon face value we see a direct violation of freewill. On the one hand God allows someone to sin (knowing they will be damned) or allows someone to do a horrible crime (knowing the horrible outcome) but chooses to not violate his own law by interjecting and stoping the person directly. On the other side you have Allah increasing someone sin so to speak. However For the latter I believe there is a misunderstanding on your part. From my understanding from that verse, Allah does not will someone to sin but allows them to sin freely. As they sin Allah allows the increase of their sin and because they are blinded by their own willful ignorance God does not show them a "light."
 
An atheistic moralist would say, "if God is all-good and all-loving why would he allow someone to sin only to be damned?" Would be problematic in essence. This whole thread is synonymous with the question  of determinism.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 3:02pm
Thank you, http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=54219&FID=29 - seekshidayath that makes much more sense-
"'Allah has intensified this disease' means that He does not punish the hypocrites immediately but allows them to indulge in their hypocrisy and exult in the success of their ruses."
 
Are the translations still lacking?  Why didn't the Quran just say that?  Why would one need a Tafseer? 
 
Actually Israfil I was not doing that at all- my point was how evil it seemed for Allah to increase someone's sin.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 5:19pm
But I can also say its evil for YHVH to allow a priest to molest a boy without personally intervening.


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 6:38pm
Actually Israfil I was not doing that at all- my point was how evil it seemed for Allah to increase someone's sin.- Believer said.
 
Beliver, if you were not doing so, you would have asked  your question in a different way. You may answer us any, but answer your own self as what was your intention.
 
Why didn't the Quran just say that?  Why would one need a Tafseer?
 
I believe you were explained this at other threads {If am not wrong }. Anyways, to understand better we need to go thru tafseer. If we go thru just translations, we may not grasp those beautiful verses. Tafseer means commentary, wherein we have hadiths {sayings of Prophet } and also the comments and views of great scholars. That makes us understand the verse better. For instance, take this same verse ----. Since we are n't learned as they are, so are to go thru commentaries.
 
 


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 1:38pm
Yes Irafil you can say-"But I can also say its evil for YHVH to allow a priest to molest a boy without personally intervening. "
 
Allowing is different then causing.  One involves freewill and the other is just evil.  Maybe it is a language thing.  
 
http://www.islamicity.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=54219&FID=29 - seekshidayath -You were offended by the way I asked my question?  No offense was intended.
 
Do Muslims need the Tafseer on just parts or the whole Quran?  Do all Muslims use these- Quran only Muslims?  I know they don't use hadith but do they use the commentary? 


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 5:47am
Do Muslims need the Tafseer on just parts or the whole Quran?  Do all Muslims use these- Quran only Muslims?  I know they don't use hadith but do they use the commentary? 
 
Am sorry for the misconception. Commentary also includes hadiths. To understand the Holy verses, we are to go thru commentaries. I did not understand your question -   Do all Muslims use these- Quran only Muslims?


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 3:29pm

Quran in itself is very concentrated stuff you have to dilute it in order to understand and get the full picture of it. You do that by going to the tafseer of the verses to understand and get the bigger picture. The verses were revealed with reasons. We should know when the verse was revealed and what was the occasion and why it was revealed, only then can one reach the depth and understand what ALLAH is telling us and you can see it in the tafseer.

The method of tafseer is to explain the Quran with the Quran itself. What is being mentioned in one verse is usually explained in another verse. Other source of explanation can be found in the hadith of the Prophet for the hadith elaborate more about the verses. Tafseer by mere opinion is prohibited as what the Prophet said:

�Whoever explains the Quran with his opinion or with what he has no knowledge of, then let him assume his seat in the Fire.� � Tirmidhi, An-Nasai and Abu Dawud

Quran is for everyone, Muslim or not because it is the Word of our Creator and we are all His creation and we are all entitled to know what He commanded us.



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 5:57pm

You explained it very well sister. And that hadith was a great reminder. JazakiAllahu khair.

Beliver here is a link of Quran with tafseer. Hope and wish Allah swt, to guide you with it.
 
Click here -   http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3000&Itemid=731 - tafsir  


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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 22 April 2008 at 9:05am

My question should have read- Do Quran only Muslims use the tafseer, commentaries?

Here is a big difference between Quran and Holy Bible.  To understand different passages we pray that the Holy Spirit enlighten us.  At different times of our life it is possible to gain different understanding of the very same verses and chapters, basically GOD gives us what we need at the time.  The Living Word of GOD
 
Have you ever heard that expression?  Does the Quran do this for Muslims?


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 12:50am

You  know  "Believer", the wonders of Quran and how we get touched by it.

Even when we don't understand arabic, tears flow while listening to its recitation. Just imagine what would be our situation when we reflect over a verse.

Its style softens even hard-hearts.

Whoever studies Quran cannot remain unreflected.

All these happens only when we seek for guidance from it.

It enlightens even those who wished to attack over it. They cud not stay unreflected by it

Every verse is so deep that more we read it, the more we get enlightened. Quran is unique in almost every respect , in its Divine  Origin, its style and methodology , its chronological descent , and its approach to the problems  of man and society. It does not relate to just one class of society or just subject but pleases all of us. Any person when recites and studies it, feels as if it is addressing only to him. It answers all of our questions, it soothes us when depressed, it cures us, it infact applies to all our phases of life. Any preconceived notions and prejuidices will cause the spirit of Quran  to elude the reader. A single reading may be enough for a superficial acquaintance but to grasp its real sense it will have to gone again and again. It is the uniqueness of Quran that even when we read a verse "n" number of times, still we feel refreshed and experience novelties in it. That is the speciality of the Quran  that today  even when it is unchanged since 1400 years, still , it remains new to us.

I remember reading its somewhere that  when the Bible discusses ancient history, it states that this king lived here, this one fought in a certain battle, another one had so may sons, etc. Yet it always stipulates that if you want more information, then you should read the book of so and so because that is where the information came from. In contrast to this concept, the Qur'an provides the reader with information and states that this information is something new. Of course, there always exists the advice to research the information provided and verify its authenticity. One may not specialise in all the subjects. I may go to a geologist  to understand a verse which concerns of geology. Allah swt says in the Quran to ask those who know , when we do not know. So do we head towards commentaries as that studies are accumulated. And the more we read it, the more we get enlightened.  We do pray Allah swt, to give us its understanding and help us in implementing in our lives.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 1:22am

Believer, you can not compare Quran and Bible because they are poles apart.  Quran is the authentic words of Allah which is perfect and flawless, while the Bible contains the words of a third party, mostly historians, and it is full of contradictions from the Old Testament down to New Testament.

The tafseer of the Quran are not being relied to personal opinion or what you call �divine inspiration� by praying that the Holy Spirit will enlighten you (only during the time you are reading the passages of the bible). Muslim doesn�t rely on the so called divine inspiration for who knows that inspiration might come from Satan and cloth with Satan�s inspiring words. If we do such, each and everyone would have their own inspirations and you know well the outcome�CHAOTIC!

As I said before, the Quran are being explained by the Quran itself and some explanations can be found in the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). Muslim is always praying for guidance every time we make an audience with Allah (in our prayers) and we do that 5 times a day and not just during the time that we read the Quran.

The Christianity believe that the living word of God is Jesus (pbuh) as what John the evangelist said which is difficult and mystical on the surface and is much more plain-spoken than we realize.

John is saying that Jesus is the words of the Bible come to life as an ordinary human being, so that people might see the Bible lived out in ordinary daily living, and so that everyone can experience the Bible in everyday terms. John 1:10-18

Jesus is the one that was sent by Allah to deliver Allah�s Messages (commands) to mankind through HIS revelations that can be found in the ORIGINAL Gospel of Jesus, to guide mankind on how to meet the pleasure of Allah in their daily affairs. This means that Jesus is just His Messenger and not the son of god. Allah spoke through Jesus His Messenger and not His son for Allah is not human and Jesus (pbuh) is the son of Mary, a human being like us.

Islam is not just a religion as most people believe it to be, but it is a complete way of life. Islam is very logic and do not entertain superstitious belief, do not accept reasoning that comes from a mere figment of imagination--> a DELUSION. Islam is the true way of life, a path that is acceptable to Allah, the Creator of all that exists�amen.



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 4:27am

Mashallah  Seekhidayath�Clap

When you read the Quran, you feel like Allah is talking to you and indeed He is directly talking to you..Sobhanallah!!



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 7:07pm
Allowing is different then causing.  One involves freewill and the other is just evil.  Maybe it is a language thing.  
 
This is nonsensical. First off you must define the Arabic word for "increase" before we get into this entire problem in the first place. unfortunately, Arabic is not english where certain words have one definition. I made the mistake of not clarifying this earlier. Perhaps someone with some knowledge of Arabic can examine this verse and translate it correctly.
 
 
 
 


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 7:39pm

Israfil - If it said Allah allows the increase then it would be free will.  Don't you believe it is the translation that is poor?

Yes, they are poles apart- why"  Both are the Word of GOD, Holy Scripture.   Following in the steps of Jesus is a true way of live - unconditional love, peace, serving fellow humans and God.
 
Truth Light -   There are many that say the Quran has just as many mistakes and contradictions.  Why would the Quran lie about the Torah and Gospel being intact and Allah keeping the Scriptures true?


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 24 April 2008 at 6:22am

Believer said:

Truth Light -   There are many that say the Quran has just as many mistakes and contradictions.  Why would the Quran lie about the Torah and Gospel being intact and Allah keeping the Scriptures true?

 

 

Believer, you really love to entertain hearsay and gossip. Try to do research and know it by yourself. You may find the truth with the Help from the True Rubb of all that exists. Read the Quran and look for the contradictions and show it here. The Quran didn�t lie about the Torah and the Gospel but in fact the Quran narrated the lie being done to those two books revealed to Prophets Moses and Prophet Jesus (pbut).

The original Torah and Gospel are the literal Word of Allah revealed to His Prophets Moses and Jesus (peut), whereas the book of Bible is merely narratives or stories in the third person. The sayings and deeds of the Prophets were written by historians and not the Prophets themselves. For an example is the book of Deuteronomy is one of the book attributed to Prophet Moses (pubh). If this book was written by the Prophet (Moses pbuh) or even written by him, how could it mention his death?

�And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had. He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Pear, but to this day no-one knows where his grave is. Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died..�(Deuteronomy 35:5-7)

The gospel revealed to Prophet Jesus(pbuh) was lost and many gospels were written. The church chooses four gospels (Mathew, Mark, Luke and John) and destroyed and banned the rest. Although these gospels include some fragments of the original Gospel, it is very clear that none of them is the gospel of Prophet Jasus (pbuh) because all the four gospels contains many contradictions and errors while the Gospel of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) which is the Word of Allah was free from contradictions and errors. These gospels are different accounts or reports of the life of the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) written by men. They mentioned his birth, his alleged crucifixion and death, etc., which cannot be mentioned in the gospel revealed to Prophet Jesus (pbuh) during his mission. Same thing happen with that of prophet Moses.

There are so many contradictions that can be found in the Bible itself and one among others is your own �tag� �

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

Jesus never claimed to be the son of god instead he repeatedly called himself the son of man (e.g. 9:22) innumerable times.

Is Jesus God or son of God or even did he crucified?

John 20:17, Jesus told Mary Magdalene to tell his followers: "I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God.

And Jesus denied that he is neither God nor even the son of god but he claimed to be the Messenger of Allah, the one that He sent to mankind:

Mathew 7:21 none of those call me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of God but the one who does the will of the father who send me."



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 27 April 2008 at 5:32am
Are you saying that the Quran confirmed the wrong Torah and Gospel?
 
The Bible is the collection of the Torah and Gospel into one Holy Book.
 
You said -"Quran narrated the lie being done to those two books revealed to Prophets Moses and Prophet Jesus (pbut)".- I know the verse about the crucifixion, not sure the verse about the Torah.  The truth of the crucifixion is in the very Gospel that the Quran confirms.
 
If you read and studied the Bible with an open heart you would learn the truth of the message.  Simply a footnote by another-  See the part I made bold, was it Joshua?
 

Deuteronomy 34

The Death of Moses
 1 Then Moses climbed Mount Nebo from the plains of Moab to the top of Pisgah, across from Jericho. There the LORD showed him the whole land�from Gilead to Dan, 2 all of Naphtali, the territory of Ephraim and Manasseh, all the land of Judah as far as the western sea,  3 the Negev and the whole region from the Valley of Jericho, the City of Palms, as far as Zoar. 4 Then the LORD said to him, "This is the land I promised on oath to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob when I said, 'I will give it to your descendants.' I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it."

 5 And Moses the servant of the LORD died there in Moab, as the LORD had said. 6 He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not weak nor his strength gone. 8 The Israelites grieved for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days, until the time of weeping and mourning was over.

 9 Now Joshua son of Nun was filled with the spirit of wisdom because Moses had laid his hands on him. So the Israelites listened to him and did what the LORD had commanded Moses.

 10 Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, 11 who did all those miraculous signs and wonders the LORD sent him to do in Egypt�to Pharaoh and to all his officials and to his whole land. 12 For no one has ever shown the mighty power or performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all Israel.

Not sure of some of your points - The Quran wasn't written by Mohammad!!
 


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 27 April 2008 at 5:37am
LOL!!  The "banned books" were not burned or destroyed [the way Uthmann burned variations of the Quran] by the church leaders.  All are available for people to read.  Go to any public library to get a copy.
 
 


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 27 April 2008 at 5:46am

Lol where on earth did you read that Khalifah Othman bin Affan has burnt variation Qurans? Through gossip and hearsay?

You know why bible of today is not the authentic Word of Allah?? Because it is not the compilation of Original Torah and Gospel..It is now contain the words of historians. You read the bible with open mind and heart..it is full of fallacy�



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 27 April 2008 at 6:35am

Muslim believe in Propeht Jesus (pbuh) and in the Original Gospel revealed to him. Muslims also believe that the true followers of Prophet Jesus were righteous people and are praised in the Quran in many verse. However those followers are not prophets and did not have the authority to change the religion of Prophet Jesus(pbuh) or replace his Gospel with what their own hands wrote.

The book of the New Testament have many contradictions. If the Holy Spirit was inspiring the writers of these books, then the books should be consistent! If what the people see in dreams represents the actual Will of Allah, then all people are Prophets because all people dream. If people coild prophesy, make laws and change the Law of Allah according to their dreams and according to the alleged inspiration of the Holy Spirit, then why did Allah send His Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and reveal His Gospel to him?

The New Testament Book contains many mistakes such as the confirmation that the generation of disciples would not pass away until the Kingdom of God comes (Mathew 16:27); Mathew 24:30-35; Mark 9:1). This incorrect prophecy proves that the Holy Spirit did not inspire the writers.

In Islam, dreams and personal insight are not considered sources of legislation. The concept of revelation in Islam is different; the revelation which represents the Will of Allah is what Allah revealed in the Quran and what He revealed to His Messenger Muhammad (pbuh). Islamic law is based on the Quran and on the Sunnah of the Propeht (pbuh) who was guided by the inspiration of Allah. No one has the right to changed it all even the scholars or to even make a law not ordained by Allah. The function of scholars is to inform what Allah and His prophet said, to explain the Law of Allah and guide people to the right path of Allaah following in the footsteps of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 6:04am
Truth-No, read history books about the Quran.  Start a thread about the contradictions and we can discuss them
 
In what way do you feel this is incorrect?  "The New Testament Book contains many mistakes such as the confirmation that the generation of disciples would not pass away until the Kingdom of God comes (Mathew 16:27); Mathew 24:30-35; Mark 9:1). "
 
There is no valid proof, just Mohammad's word.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 6:06am

Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 514, p. 482; book 61

Narrated Umar bin Al-Khattab:

I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and I listen to his recitation and noticed that he recited in several different ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer, but I controlled my temper and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Surat which I heard you reciting ?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me". I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Apostle taught it to me in a different way from yours". So I dragged him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!". On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him (Umar) recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way", and added, "Recite, O Umar", I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you."

Bukhuri: vol. 4, hadith 682, book 56

Narrated Ibn Mas'ud:

I heard a person reciting a (Quranic) Verse in a certain way, and I had heard the Prophet reciting the same Verse in a different way. So I took him to the Prophet and informed him of that but I noticed the sign of disapproval on his face, and then he said, "Both of you are correct, so don't differ, for the nations before you differed, so they were destroyed."

 



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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 6:10am
Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham (Syria) and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Armenia and Azherbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their differences in the recitation of the Quran, so he said to Uthman, 'O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and Christians did before'. So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Quran so that we may compile the Quranic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you'. Hafsa sent it to Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Said bin Al-As and Abdur Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Quran, then write it in their (Quraishi) tongue'. They did so, and when they had written many copies, Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied and ordered that all the other Quranic materials whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt..." (29)


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 7:28pm

This is precisely the answer to your question, believer:

Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham (Syria) and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Armenia and Azherbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their differences in the recitation of the Quran, so he said to Uthman, 'O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and Christians did before'. So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Quran so that we may compile the Quranic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you'. Hafsa sent it to Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Said bin Al-As and Abdur Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Quran, then write it in their (Quraishi) tongue'. They did so, and when they had written many copies, Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied and ordered that all the other Quranic materials whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt..." (29)

Your question about why Othman bin Affan burnt those various Quran is because those being burnt are not authentic and some discrepancies were located and it was just written by some people without authority thus making their own version and differ from those who knows it by heart. Othman bin Affan allow the compilation of the Quran in one language and that is the Qurays, the one which is known today, for uniformity and besides it is the language of the Prophet. The authentic book of Quran were compiled and checked by many of those knowledgeable men and memorizes it by heart during the time of the prophet. If the Quran is not the authentic word of Allah then it must have contradictions, just like what the bible has it now----CONTRADICTIONS!



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 7:30pm

Contradictions in the Bible:

The Christianity believes that they have God the Father (The Creator), God the Son (the Savior) and God the Holy Spirit (the Counselor). So based on common sense and simple logic, how can you say that God is one in three form? Is God One in three? Or three God in One? By the way, if Jesus is God the Son (Son of God) is really God or part of the God, doesn�t this contradict what the bible itself reports that no one can see God, nor hear His voice? The Bible states that:

John 5:37 �You have never heard His voice nor seen His face.�

Timothy 6:16 �No one has ever seen Him. And no one can see Him.�

Exodus 33:20 �No one can see Me that stay alive.�

How can we reconcile the dogma that Jesus is God and the Biblical testimony that no one has ever seen God nor hears His voice?? Didn�t the Jews at his time, his family and his followers SEE Jesus (God the Son, as some believe) and HEAR his voice? How can you reconcile what was testified by God in the Bible?

Isaiah 45:19 � I am the Lord, and there is no other God. I have not spoken in secret or kept my purpose hidden�.I am the Lord and I speak the truth; I make known what is right.�



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: Truth_light24
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 7:36pm

Read the following verses CAREFULLY, CRITICALLY AND WITHOUT ANY PRECONCEPTIONS.

The One True God

 The Old Testament:

a.    Deutronomy 6;4 �Hear, O Israel:The Lord our God is one Lord.�

 

b.    Isaiah 43:10-11 �You may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after Me. I, I am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.�

The New Testament:

a.    Matthew 19:16-17 �One came and said unto him, Good master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have entered life? And he (Jesus) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God.�

 

b.    Timothy 2:5 �For there is one God and there is one mediator between God and men, the man is Jesus Christ.�

Can you recall other verses confirming that God is only One and not three?

The Quran said:

a.    Quran 112:1-4 �say: He is Allah, the One; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him.�

b.    Quran 21:25 �There is no God but I; so worship Me.�

c.    Quran 5:73 �They disbelieve who say: Allah (God) is one of three, for there is no God except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily, a grevious chastisement will befall the disbeliever among them.�

So, according to this affirmation, all other supposed gods or deities like Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Brahman, Vishnu, Shiva, Khrishna or Buddha are neither gods nor manifestations of the ONE TRUE GOD.

It was because of this false notion that after the Jews worshipped other gods, �The Lord�s anger burned against them.� (25:3). Likewise, Moses destroyed the golden calf. All God�s Prophets including Adam, Noah down to Jesus and Muhammad were sent by Allah, the Creator of everything to convey the same one message:

�The true God is only One. Worship HIM ALONE and keep His commandments.�

Since those prophets preached the same message, their religion must be the same one! Submission to the will of God is the essence of the message of those Prophets. This word �SUBMISSION� means �ISLAM� in Arabic.



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And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin. Quran33:59


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 29 April 2008 at 4:25am
Truthlight - move these couple of posts to the interfaith discussion so we can discuss it there.
 
I have had a number of posted moved because I was in the wrong section-  This is not following the original thread.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 05 May 2008 at 3:34pm
How did Uthmann know which were ariginal?

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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 06 May 2008 at 4:52am

Your question is again similar , infact the most common question asked by christian missionaries. No probs. Here is

the answer.

You are asking of authenticity ? When was it considered Unauthentic ?

 We need to know how the Holy Quran was compiled. Kindly  read this thread.

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9242&PN=2 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9242&PN=2

To add it further, the differences were in accent. During Uthman RA, the incorrect accent were removed.



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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 07 May 2008 at 5:32am
If we had all the different writings then we would know why the ones that Uthmann burned were not included.  A comparative study could be done.  This could have proved to those what the correct reading should be.
 
It might answer the question of all the foreigh words in the purely arabic Quran.
 
To many it appears similar to a cover up by Uthmann. 
 
The bones, stone and wood that the original Quran were written on could have been saved,  these would have lasted unlke the early paper.  I would think that a message from Allah written on such would would have been treasured.


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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.



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