YHWH v. Allah
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
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Topic: YHWH v. Allah
Posted By: Doo-bop
Subject: YHWH v. Allah
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 3:08pm
I came across the above table while browsing in other sites. I thought to myself, there's plenty to discuss here! So I thought I'd let you see it.
My first thought is that it is not a complete list of differences between YHWH and Allah, there being some I would have thought to be more obvious.
It also raises questions of accuracy. For instance, the first thing it says about Allah is that this is God's name. Is this in fact true? Or does the word Allah simply mean God? The reason I ask is that an exact reference is not given, it merely cites the Quran without giving a chapter or verse...
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Replies:
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 3:49pm
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To address the first point.
A question thus arises. If and only if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob did not know the tetragramaton [YHWH], then why should Ishmael and Muhammad? Serv |
YHWH is God's name �forever'. (Exodus 3:13�15)Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 3:54pm
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I keep hearing that arabic Christians use the word Allah for GOD. I wonder when GOD is called by HIS personal name YWHW what do the arabic Christians say? Do they pronounce it like we do, Yahweh?
Actually though Islam has GOD having 99 names. ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 3:57pm
| There is therefore no reason why either Ishmael or Muhammad should have known the name, I would have thought |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 4:23pm
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Part 2
Al-Imran (The Family of Imran)
3:54 And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. An-Nahl (The Bee)
16:100 His authority is over those only, who take him as patron and who join partners with Allah. 16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not. 16:102 Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims. 16:103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear. 16:104 Those who believe not in the Signs of Allah,- Allah will not guide them, and theirs will be a grievous Penalty.
Al-Isra (The Journey by Night) 17:85 They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)" 17:86 If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent thee by inspiration:then wouldst thou find none to plead thy affair in that matter as against Us,- 17:87 Except for Mercy from thy Lord: for his bounty is to thee (indeed) great. 17:88 Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support. 17:89 And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: yet the greater part of men refuse (to receive it) except with ingratitude!
------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 4:25pm
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Allah is the Arabic word for God. I think it would behoove the poster to read the actual Quranic verses referenced here.
Part 1:
Ash-Shams (The Sun) 91:5 By the Firmament and its (wonderful) structure; 91:6 By the Earth and its (wide) expanse: 91:7 By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it; 91:8 And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right;- 91:9 Truly he succeeds that purifies it,
Al-Baqara (The Cow) 2:109 Quite a number of the People of the Book wish they could Turn you (people) back to infidelity after ye have believed, from selfish envy, after the Truth hath become Manifest unto them: But forgive and overlook, Till Allah accomplish His purpose; for Allah Hath power over all things.
An-Nisa (The Women) 4:125 Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend. Al-Hashr (The Gathering) 59:20 Not equal are the Companions of the Fire and the Companions of the Garden: it is the Companions of the Garden, that will achieve Felicity. 59:21 Had We sent down this Qur'an on a mountain, verily, thou wouldst have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah. Such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect. 59:22 Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god;- Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. 59:23 Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god;- the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah. (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him. 59:24 He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory: and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. An-Nisa (The Women) 4:50 Behold! how they invent a lie against Allah. but that by itself is a manifest sin! 4:51 Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who were given a portion of the Book? they believe in sorcery and Evil, and say to the Unbelievers that they are better guided in the (right) way Than the believers! 4:52 They are (men) whom Allah hath cursed: And those whom Allah Hath cursed, thou wilt find, have no one to help. 4:53 Have they a share in dominion or power? Behold, they give not a farthing to their fellow-men? 4:54 Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of his bounty? but We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.
Al-Imran (The Family of Imran) 3:25 But how (will they fare) when we gather them together against a day about which there is no doubt, and each soul will be paid out just what it has earned, without (favour or) injustice? 3:26 Say: "O Allah. Lord of Power (And Rule), Thou givest power to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off power from whom Thou pleasest: Thou enduest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: In Thy hand is all good. Verily, over all things Thou hast power. 3:27 "Thou causest the night to gain on the day, and thou causest the day to gain on the night; Thou bringest the Living out of the dead, and Thou bringest the dead out of the Living; and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest, without measure." 3:28 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. 3:29 Say: "Whether ye hide what is in your hearts or reveal it, Allah knows it all: He knows what is in the heavens, and what is on earth. And Allah has power over all things. ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 4:28pm
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I'm not sure why they posted out of order, but it should be easy enough to correspond to the chart..... ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 4:39pm
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Yes it is posting weird- maybe because we are all on at the same time.
Shasts's aunt - Do you know the Arabic word for His personal name YWHW?
I know Jesus which is actually, Yeshua became Isa in arabic. ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 4:47pm
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Allah has 99 names. Here is a link that lists them: http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm - http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 4:56pm
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To address the second point.
Vs.
Vs.
Seconding Shasta�sAunt's above point, these verses say nothing about authorship of good and evil. The creator of the above table should either check his references or read more carefully. Serv |
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 5:08pm
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Side note to Doo-bop, Did I understand you to agree? If so, I am knocked from my favorite WI-FI pub seat and have spilled my foam and brewski. Serv |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 5:16pm
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"Seconding Shasta�sAunt's above point, these verses say nothing about authorship of good and evil. The creator of the above table should either check his references or read more carefully." Most of the people who create these tables do so under the assumption that those reading them will not bother to actually look up what is written in the Quran, but will rather gleefully repeat them verbatim to whoever will listen. Therefore they could have referenced verses that do not even exist, it wouldn't matter. ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 20 April 2008 at 6:34pm
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Shasta�s Aunt wrote: �Most of the people who create these tables do so under the assumption that those reading them will not bother to actually look up what is written in the Quran, but will rather gleefully repeat them verbatim to whoever will listen. Therefore they could have referenced verses that do not even exist, it wouldn't matter.� True, that. But they can�t try to pawn it off on us. It�s good to be diligent students. To fast forward and address point #6. �YHWH loves sinners and reaches out to his enemies in love. (Exodus 34:5�7; 1 John 4:19)� Vs. �[The Israelite Judge] Ehud then approached [the king of Serv |
Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 4:49am
I agree with you that the verses given in the table seem to bear no relation to what the author is saying, which is very strange.
So are you saying that Allah is not the name of your God? Could you perhaps comment on this, from a Lahori website:-
http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm -
Again, you have to wonder why the producer of the table does not give an exact quranic reference if he is claiming that it is found in the Quran ------------- "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29) |
Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 4:57am
Servetus - are you on the fizzy drinks again? tut tut
 ---Actually, I did not understand why that particular question arose in your mind. I don't know why it should be said that Ishmael and Muhammad should have known the name Yahweh.Re Isaiah 45:7 (Amos 3:6 is another one), the Hebrew word (I am told) is rah, meaning evil, but not necessarily moral evil, or sin. It refers to disaster/adversity, such as befell Sodom, certainly brought about by God, to be the sure result of sin, not the sin itself. It is translated as calamity in NASB and NKJV, as disaster in NIV, and as woe in RSV
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Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 5:24am
I don't know what you mean here. It looks like a non-point. The fact that God comes in in final judgement on an individual or individuals does not mean he has not gone out in mercy and love to them up to that point. God has his cut-off point, and has made that abundantly clear in the Bible
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Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 12:25pm
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"So are you saying that Allah is not the name of your God?"
If by your God, you mean the One True God, of Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, and Mohammed, you are correct.
If you read the rest of the website you listed you will see that this is a movement started by a self-proclaimed fulfillment of Islamic prophesy. That he was sent to earth instead of the return of Jesus, which Muslims believe will occur before the Day of Jugement.
First, this is false teaching and not Islamic.
Second, all Arabs, even non-Muslims, know that the Arabic word Allah means God. Christian Arabs use the word Allah when they pray to God.
Third, I believe Servetus posted his Biblical reference above in direct response to God loves sinners, Allah hates sinners. I am assuming by your response that being run through with a sword is a declaration of love. Or, that when God(Jesus?) brings down retribution upon sinners it is somehow different than when Allah brings down retribution upon sinners.
------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 3:07pm
I am fully aware of the nature of the website I linked you to. I pointed this out to you myself. I was really asking you to comment on the reasons given on the page for asserting that Allah was the name of the God of the Quran. If by simply designating it as false is your response, then so be it.
I am also aware that Arab Christians use the word Allah to designate the God of the Bible, just as Arab pagans used it to designate a pre-Islamic deity.
"I am assuming by your response that being run through with a sword is a declaration of love." ------This is a very strange assumption to make, and I cannot think why either yourself or Servetus should make it. After all, God will bring every unforgiven sinner into judgment in hell. That cannot be said either to be an act of love. But it does not mean that God did not love the sinners in question before. They are judged because they reject his love
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Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 3:35pm
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Allow me to comment on a few of these things in a more philosophical fashion.....
1st point:
YHWH is God's name �forever'. (Exodus 3:13�15) Allah is God's name. (The Quran)
This is another misrepresentation of Quranic text. If evil exist independent of God then that would somehow prove God's impotency in actions that are independent of God. If God in fact encompasses the maximum capcity of "power" in essence then actions that exist in the physical plane do not escape God's ability nor do evil actions act independent of God. In order words, if eveil did not come from God but is independent of God then God is impotent in quality.
But what both verses mean is on the one had God in th bible does not willfully cause someone to do evil (which would violate individual freewill). God is the author of that which is spiritually good or essentially good such as life wealth, good food are subjective claims made by humans but God is essentially good thus which emanates from him is also essentially good. Whereas the Islamic perspective of God is more of the direct form of defining action. Both good and evil come from God in the sense of theircreation in the world. Good and evil are subjective claims that are known through individual experience which God allows us to experience to know their difference. What good are spiritual laws if God didn't create good and evil for us to distinguish from?
Perhaps Servetus can comment more on this Biblical perspective but to comment on the Islamic perspective to metamorph God into a particular thing would make God temporal or to inaccurately state that this or that particular object is God. God cannot be objectified or compounded into one substance. Although God is considered to be "everywhere" this is to substantiate the claim that God is omnipresent. We must be careful to not make God to be a particular less we face defining God in a pantheistic fashion.
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Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 4:32pm
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"------This is a very strange assumption to make, and I cannot think why either yourself or Servetus should make it. After all, God will bring every unforgiven sinner into judgment in hell. That cannot be said either to be an act of love. But it does not mean that God did not love the sinners in question before. They are judged because they reject his love."
"YHWH loves sinners and reaches out to his enemies in love. (Exodus 34:5�7; 1 John 4:19)"
I found it ironic. God has Biblically destroyed whole nations and generations. So He is reaching out with an iron fist? Where is the love?
------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 4:39pm
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Brother Israfil:
The meaning of the verses listed on the chart as quoted from the Quran do not actually correspond with the actual verses in the Holy Quran. It is all a fabrication of the author. ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 21 April 2008 at 4:49pm
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"I am fully aware of the nature of the website I linked you to. I pointed this out to you myself. I was really asking you to comment on the reasons given on the page for asserting that Allah was the name of the God of the Quran. If by simply designating it as false is your response, then so be it."
There is nothing in the Quran that states the name of God is Allah. The Quran does state that God has 99 Names and I posted a link to these names. I have no response as to why this group is asserting otherwise, I don't have a clue... I would suggest at this point that you actually read the Quran to see which of us is giving you the correct information. ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 22 April 2008 at 2:28am
There is nothing ironic about it. Unless you are saying that God should not judge those who reject him when they are loved by him. And we have enough stories of killing, and descriptions of hell, from Islamic texts to know that the God of the Quran will judge those who will not submit to him.
I think the point the author of this faulty table is trying to make is that while God loves the world, including sinners, the God of the Quran does not love sinners. Or does he?
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Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 22 April 2008 at 2:57am
Actually, in my very first post, I expressed doubt that the Quran said that Allah was God's name
Well, anyway, perhaps somone else could comment on this:-
http://www.muslim.org/islam/allah.htm -
Interestingly, the link gives a grammatical reason as to why Allah is a proper noun -
"Contrary to popular belief, the word Allah is NOT a contraction of al-ilah (al meaning 'the', and ilah meaning 'god').
Had it been so, then the expression ya Allah ('O Allah!') would have been ungrammatical, because according to the Arabic language when you address someone by the vocative form ya followed by a title, the al ('the') must be dropped from the title. For example, you cannot say ya ar-rabb but must say ya rabb (for 'O Lord'). So if the word Allah was al-ilah ('the God'), we would not be able to say: ya Allah, which we do. Lane's Arabic-English Lexicon (which is based on classical Arabic dictionaries), says under the word Allah, while citing many linguistical authorities: "Allah ... is a proper name applied to the Being Who exists necessarily, by Himself, comprising all the attributes of perfection, a proper name denoting the true god ... the al being inseparable from it, not derived..." Allah is thus a proper name, not derived from anything, and the Al is inseparable from it. The word al-ilah (the god) is a different word." ------------- "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29) |
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 22 April 2008 at 10:10pm
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Doo-bop: �Servetus - are you on the fizzy drinks again? tut tut Yes. And, of course I say this as your at times long-suffering friend and designated driver, your posts might be better able to pass the breathalyzer if, instead of tut tutting, you would join me by switching to the best, frothiest American brew on tap: http://p1.hotornot.com/bl/brands/GSA/TBNDWKAFJEUFFRHLTWYH.jpg - http://p1.hotornot.com/bl/brands/GSA/TBNDWKAFJEUFFRHLTWYH.jpg Doo-bop: �---Actually, I did not understand why that particular question arose in your mind. I don't know why it should be said that Ishmael and Muhammad should have known the name Yahweh.� Do you think it should be said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew that name? Doo-bop: "Re Isaiah 45:7 (Amos 3:6 is another one), the Hebrew word (I am told) is rah, meaning evil, but not necessarily moral evil, or sin �" It sounds as though, with a few caveats thrown in, you agree with King James and his translators that the God of the Bible does create evil after all. Let us now revisit the author's (of the opening table) claim: �Evil is not from YHWH, but wilful rebellion against YHWH. YHWH is the author of good, not evil. (Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 92:15; 1 John 1:5)� �Allah [in contrast] is the author of both good and evil. (Q91:5�9) [sic]� Moving right along � The author of the table wrote: �YHWH loves sinners and reaches out to his enemies in love. (Exodus 34:5�7; 1 John 4:19)� Vs. �[The Israelite Judge] Ehud then approached [the king of Doo-bop: �� God has his cut-off point, and has made that abundantly clear in the Bible.� Sorry. Was that pun intended? Maybe the 70�s band with the suggestively Biblical name, Shasta�sAunt: �Third, I believe Servetus posted his Biblical reference above in direct response to God loves sinners, Allah hates sinners.� Spot on. That is correct. Thank you for being a careful reader. Shasta�sAunt: �I am assuming by your [Doo-bop�s] response that being run through with a sword is a declaration of love.� Let's face it. At least in my case, Cupid, with his slings and arrows, has at times gotten overly zealous. {Think winkey face.} Israfil wrote � � to comment on the Islamic perspective to metamorph God into a particular thing would make God temporal or to inaccurately state that this or that particular object is God. God cannot be objectified or compounded into one substance. Although God is considered to be "everywhere" this is to substantiate the claim that God is omnipresent. We must be careful to not make God to be a particular less we face defining God in a pantheistic fashion.� Thanks for the invitation and good point from your side. Maimonides, the great Jewish Talmudist, saw fit to explain as allegorical some of the grosser anthropomorphisms of the Torah, and this, as I recall and according to Jacob Minken, after he had encountered the systematized ahadith and Quran, wherein he found comparatively few. Anyway, doesn�t it say somewhere in the Quran that God is closer to us than our jugular vein? Isn�t that close enough for the author of the table? Serv |
Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 4:19am
| So......does Allah love sinners, or not? |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 6:24pm
Hi Doo-bop,
If it was not for the'love' of sinners, God would not have sent his guidence since Adam to Mohammed (pbut). It is through His Love and Mercy that sinners like me and you can benefit from that Love of Him. Now it is upto us if we love Him back and answer His call, or reject that LOVE to our eternal loss. He is also offering the BONUS of forgiveness!
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 7:29pm
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Doo-Bop said:
So......does Allah love sinners, or not?
This "reeks" of comparitive Christian theology.
"Love" is a subjective terminology to denote emotion, something Allah has none, less we objectify God, the Artisan of this vast universe to be a being that is comprised of biological emotion. consequently, because we all believe in the Abrahamic faith, we believe in a personal deity that actually "cares" for minute, star-dust particles called humans. Doo-bop in order to even get a sense of what love is you need to stop using your compare and contrast anecdotal knowledge of "love."
If I were to tell you no, God does not loe sinners you are ready for a rebuttal which consist of arguments stemming from "see, you don't believe in the same god as I do because my god loves sinners." Again, love is quite subjective and relative. Even if your gud loves sinners then his love is conditional thus rendering his quality temporal, thus meaning that your gud has a limit to how much he loves me. Meaning, God loves me so long as I do X,Y, and Z.
Doo-bop since you have made this thread not in the best interest of dialogue but in the interest of comparing gods I'd like to talk about how limited your god is and illogical. First, if youur gud is all-loving why destroy a city simply because people expressed homosexuality? Even if they were the worse of the worse what about today? where child pornography runs rampant and child grow up in sexually abused homes (See current LDS controversy).
Actually we can see a positivist approach here and see that your gud loves sinners by the fact that he allows janjaweed to pillage and rape women and take children and sell them to slavery in Africa. Moving back in time in the 1600's off the shores of West Virginia your gud loved the world so much that he gave his only son named Yeshua, who died on the cross only to fail when later in the Americas your pastors, priests and worshippers under the banner of Christianity enslaved, mutilated, raped and tortured innocent human beings all for the sake of Capitalism and Religion.
Your gud loves the world so much that he is willing to allow the suffering of over 100 million people living with STD (HIV/AIDS) hunger problems and other biological issues. Oh but I'm sure that once the disease eats away the body their soul will endure in paradise right? They just have to live through the pain and agony of their situation. What about crime? Your gud loves sinners so much that he allows the wealthy 10% to rape the other 90% So that the established class system (or caste) remains? Oh but I'm sure there is gold awaiting in paradise.......
You see my friend love is relative.
God does not love like we love nor should we make any comparisons. If you must make some similarity then we must at least attribute God's love for us with him equipping us with life and the ability to thrive. Not to be graphic in our sexual relations God has given us endorphins to reward us in sexual pleasure after climax. God has given us a brain that grows to a limited capacity which stores endless knowledge that we may thrive socially. If this is love or at least partial then all of us, not just sinners have it.
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Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 23 April 2008 at 8:10pm
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We are made in the image of GOD so our love must be similar.
I think GOD would have told Mohammad - I am YHWH, especially since they were worshipping all the idols and the main one was Allah.
What is the arabic equivalent of YHWH. " I am that I am" or I am?
Israfil - your argument can be turned right around and said- Allah is so merciful why does He allow these things to happen?
Do Muslims believe that satan/devil is active in causing problems?
EVIL/satan/ devil and the choices of man is at the root of all, governments stealing food sent to the poor and hungry and selling it, deploriable sexual practices, etc. ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 24 April 2008 at 8:20am
"I am that I am" is actually no name at all. Even "I am who I am" is also no name at all.
To put it simply, Moses wanted a name and God gave him none.
On a lighter note, if you insist, I can cook up the Arabic equivalent right now. WHWH, tetragrammated for WAHUWAH, which simply means He is the One.
Removing both the vowels A and the vowel U, bingo! I get WHWH.
Yes, Satan is bad.
BMZ ------------- Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God." |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 24 April 2008 at 11:12am
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I think GOD would have told Mohammad - I am YHWH, especially since they were worshipping all the idols and the main one was Allah.
This is a ridiculous argument on God's names. So God creates over billions of people in the world and he only goes by one name? Does your gud not know there are many languages in the universe? Also, where do you get the idea that Allah is an idol when you have many proofs not only in our theological doctrines but in secular doctrines as well.
Allah is the fusion between Al-Illah which means "THE GOD"
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Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 24 April 2008 at 1:43pm
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Hi beleiver,
you ask, "Do Muslims believe that satan/devil is active in causing problems?"
Yes, we do believe that.
We believe that satan is busy in decieving and causing negative ideas and activity since Adam (pbuh). We, Muslims believe that satan was responsible for Adams disobidience and sin, and not Eve. Adam asked for God's forgiveness and through the act of God's Mercy, Love and Forgiveness, Adam was forgiven.
I once read Rev. Billy Graham say in his weekly newspaper column, I cannot remember word to word but here is what I understood of it.
He said, and correct me if that's not the Christian believe,: that somehow things got out of control of God and Satan became more powerfull. But one day God will defeat satan!!
In Islam we believe that nothing is out of reach of God, and nothing can over power God, including Satan, who is created by God.
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 24 April 2008 at 6:51pm
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LOL!! honeto -Do you believe satan/evil is more powerfuol then GOD?
Pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times worship 360 gods, including sun, moon and the stars, Arabs built temples to the Moon-god. Different Arab tribes give the Moon-god different names Sin, Hubul, Ilumquh, Al-ilah. �al-ilah� (the god) used as the Moon-god, �Allah� = �al-ilah. He was worshipped at the Kabah, which was the house of the Moon-god�. I just think YHWH would want to make sure that the Arabs knew the difference between the One True GOD and the padan god. Especially too since the ritual was so similar to the ones of the pagans walking around the kabah. ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 24 April 2008 at 8:39pm
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According to Sir James George Frazer (The Golden Bough): From the Jewish Encyclopedia: Finally, Josephus writes this of the Essenes of his day: �The Essenes observed strict religious orders. They functioned as scribes and prophets, studying and preserving the Scriptures, the books of their sect, and the names of angels. Their work of healing involved ascribing properties to stones and roots for protection. And they were expert at foreseeing future events.� (bold emphasis added) Ref: http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=3975 Serv |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 6:20am
Glad to be back, Serv and I rejoiced reading the answer.
BMZ ------------- Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God." |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 6:29am
I have honestly not heard any of my Christian friends calling Jesus, YHWH. Is it because they are scared to call Gawd's name?
For Christian Arabs, Allah is the peronal name of Gawd. The Bible in Arabic also does not mention YHWH but replaces it with Allah.
Cheers
BMZ ------------- Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God." |
Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 6:49am
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BMZ wrote:-
"The Bible in Arabic also does not mention YHWH but replaces it with Allah.
"So, according to the Arabic bible, "Allah" is a name. Do you go along with that?
|
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 6:14pm
If "God" is a name then yes!
Otherwise no, as my wife (a Muslim) calls God Dios, or Senior del Mundos (her mother tongue is Spanish).
Hasan
------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 7:06pm
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YHWH in english is Jehovah
InterestingThe Bible in Arabic also does not mention YHWH but replaces it with Allah
Exodus 3
13 Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"
14 God said to Moses, "I am who I am . This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' " 15 God also said to Moses, "Say to the Israelites, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers�the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob�has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation. ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 25 April 2008 at 7:31pm
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I just found a website very interesting.
Claims GOD's name is just EHYEH, translating it to I am is wrong, as is using YHWH and Jehovah.
On one of these threads someone mentioned the equivalent of EHYEH in arabic, I AM. Is ther something like that in the Quran EHYEH- would it be just HYH? ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 10:15am
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Who cares what God's true name is?
There are millions of people on this planet with hundreds of thousands of languages and dialects. Do you honestly think a personal God would care what his organic inhabitants of this planet call him?
Allah, YHVH, EHYEH, Ahzura Mazda, God, Got, Brahman etc.......
There is a verse in the Qur'an that says (if I recall and may God forgive me for my mental imperfect):
"To Allah belongs the most beautiful names."
I want the Christians who constantly come here to compare their faith know that Muslims believe that there is only one God. There is no multiple deities aside with God or under God or on top of God. God is the sole and only authority in the universe. God is the "alpha and omega" but in actuality God is neither because there is no beginning nor end with God.
God is the only reality. But of course Christians will ridiculously argue, "well, you may believe in one God but you don't believe Jesus is god etc." This is ridiculous. Let God sort out those differences. Let us leave this discussion at the belief that there is only one God (as Averroes would call him) the artisan, the sustainer and Creator of the universe.
Allah is a human constructed name. Remember God is beyond the limitations of human language therefore it is safe to say that God does not need vocal cords and a windpipe to vocalize sound into words. He gives us a name to make some sense of what it is. I like the verse "I am that I am." God is what God is.
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Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 2:59pm
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That is like saying you don't care what your best friend's name is.
Do you really mean that? ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 6:53pm
believer,
most of us who grew up in the East know that we call our mothers, (the closest of any wordly relationships) not by their given names but mother or mom for love and respect (its trasnlations in local languages).
What better example, can never be equal but closest to this??
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 7:52pm
Let�s see what Jesus (S) have to say about his �name�! http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=joh+17%3A6§ion=0&it=kjv&oq=joh%252017%3A6&ot=bhs&nt=na&new=1&nb=joh&ng=17&ncc=17 - John 17:6 6 I have "manifested thy name unto the men" which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. According to those verse Jesus (S) �declared� God�s name, can you show me where in the bible Jesus (S) declared or manifested God�s name? I know for sure Jesus (S) calls His God �Allah� read below: Firstly, the language of Jesus (S) was �Aramaic�: Among the Dead Sea Scrolls, the remains of the library of a Jewish sect from around the turn of the Era, are many compositions in Aramaic. These new texts also provide the best evidence for Palestinian Aramaic of the sort used by Jesus and his disciples. Link: http://cal1.cn.huc.edu/aramaic_language.html - And the word for �God� in Aramaic is �Allah� Just click on this link and type the word �God� and see what turns up http://www.peshitta.org/lexicon/ - Aramaic Lexicon and Concordance . If not, then type this � http://www.peshitta.org/lexicon/ - Aramaic Lexicon and Concordance � in your browser and then type the word �God�.
truthnowcome ------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 26 April 2008 at 8:27pm
Knowing that Jesus (S) call his God �Allah� in Aramaic, let�s just replace the correct word (Allah) and see how it will read! He said: �I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.� (John.5:30) �For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.� ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john%2012:49&version=9 - John 12:49 ) Who is Jesus (pbuh) Father? Jesus (pbuh) said: ��Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and my Allah and your Allah.� ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2020:16-17%20&version=9 - John 20:16-17 AKJV) According to him, his Father is �OUR GOD and HIS GOD; He has a GOD, He said: �MY ALLAH AND YOUR ALLAH.� And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good truthnowcome
------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 27 April 2008 at 6:07am
honeto- very good point!! Actually the best and simplest arguement I have heard about this whole name of GOD difference between Muslims, Christians and Jews.
LOL!! tnc- we have talked about that on another thread.- Oh but you have been away for a bit, start another thread. ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 27 April 2008 at 6:45am
Indwelling of the Holy Spirit-produces the fruits of the spirit only- no superpowers
WAHUWAH, which simply means He is the One- Are there verses in the Quran with this phrase? ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 27 April 2008 at 12:46pm
Are you really that ignorant? There is a difference between me caring about who my best friend name is and actually putting great significance in God's name. I mean FFS, God is the creator of all humans and many languages so, why should I care what someone in Africa calls God and why should God himself care (if he does at all)?
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Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 1:24pm
Oh yes!!!
It is good that you come to your sense and recognized the true meaning of the word WHWH = WAHUWAH = He is the One � only that you left out the most important word �Elohim� Let me translate for you: �WA� means �and� �HUWA� means �He is� Or �He is Whom He is� and not �He is the one� Now let�s go back to the original word back to Genesis. It read: http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=ge+2:4&translation=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=na&sr=1 - Genesis 2:4 http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0428 - This is the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=08435 - account of the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=08064 - heavens and the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0776 - earth when they were http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01254 - created , in the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03117 - day that the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - LORD http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - God http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=06213 - made http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0776 - earth and http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=08064 - heaven . YHWH = YAHUWAH YA = OH HUWA = �He is� or �He is whom He is� YHWH = http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - LORD = �OH He is� or �OH He is whom He is� and http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - God = ELOHIM So � http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - LORD http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - God � = �Oh He is Elohim� or �Oh He is Whom He is Elohim� This is what the Quran says: Qul huwa Allahu ahadun قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ (112:1) 112:1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Deuteronomy 6:4 http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=08085 - "Hear , O http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03478 - Israel ! The http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - LORD is our http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - God , the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - LORD is http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0259 - one ! = Here O
112:2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
Allahu alssamadu 112:3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
Lam yalid walam yooladu 112:4 And there is none like unto Him.
Walam yakun lahu kufuwan ahadun truthnowcome ------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 4:12pm
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"WAHUWAH, which simply means He is the One- Are there verses in the Quran with this phrase?"
And yet He is three.... ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 28 April 2008 at 4:22pm
Although the verses in the Quran do not state what the chart states, and I posted the verses for you to read, I will say that given the fact that supposedly ALL of God's Laws were negated by Jesus and Saul I find this comparison a bit odd.
Believer, please show me from the Quran where Allah allows Himself to break an oath?
------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Rukkaiyah
Date Posted: 30 April 2008 at 7:54am
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Can I ask which web sites you gathered this information? The chapter's and verses, don't match the one's on the holy Quran(!)
Chapter 91, Verse 5-9
5. Andby the heaven and its Maker. 6. Andby the earth and its Expansionist . 7. Andby the soul and Him who perfected it 8. Theninspired its and it piety; 9. Undoubtedlyhe attained to his goal who cleansed it. Which clearly don't match the context of the initial post. Please could you expand or clarify? |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 30 April 2008 at 5:56pm
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3 what Shasta?- manifestatons- yes.
NO Jesus did not negate the Law, He fufilled them
------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 30 April 2008 at 8:06pm
Ephesians 2
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Hebrews 7
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: 21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) 22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. Deuteronomy 14
3 Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing.
7 Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you. 8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase. 10 And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you. 12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, 13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind, 14 And every raven after his kind, etc.....
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. 11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 30 April 2008 at 8:13pm
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It seems that many of God's perpetual covenants were in fact negated by Jesus or Saul.
This brings up a few questions. Isn't a perpetual covenent perpetual?
1 a: continuing forever : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/everlasting - everlasting <perpetual motion> b (1): valid for all time <a perpetual right> (2): holding (as an office) for life or for an unlimited time2: occurring continually : indefinitely long-continued <perpetual problems>3: blooming continuously throughout the season
If so, what happened here? ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Doo-bop
Date Posted: 07 May 2008 at 1:21pm
You are right, aspects of the table given are very faulty and incomplete. I have pointed this out at the website concerned. I cannot give the website, as it would go against forum rules ------------- "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world" - John the Baptizer (John 1:29) |
Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:17am
My friend, you were misinformed! �YHWH� is not �I am that I am� Read for your self: http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=01961 - Old Testament Hebrew - StudyLight.org And http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0559 - said ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8799 - 8799 ) unto http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=04872 - Moses, I http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01961 - - AM ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8799 - 8799 ) : and he http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0559 - said ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8799 - 8799 ) , Thus shalt thou http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0559 - say ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8799 - 8799 ) unto the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01121 - children of http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03478 - Israel, I AM hath http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07971 - sent ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8804 - 8804 ) me unto you. w http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0559 - Y(mr http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - (lhye (l- http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=04872 - m$h http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01961 - (hyh ($r http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01961 - - hyh $lxny (lyke Click on the words in colours! Which one define the nature of God, this: http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - = http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - or this: I http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01961 - = http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01961 - ? Also, I http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01961 - is not YHWH, it is http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01961 - YHWH translated as Lord, click on the word � http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - LORD �. Deuteronomy 6:4 http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=08085 - "Hear , O http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03478 - Israel ! The http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - LORD is our http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0430 - God , the http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - LORD is http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0259 - one ! And it read in http://www.islamonline.net/discussione/thread.jspa?messageID=98565𘄅 - Paslm 83:18 That men may http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03045 - know ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/extras.cgi?number=8799 - 8799 ) that thou, whose http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=08034 - name alone is http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - art the most http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05945 - (83:19)w http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03045 - yd)W Ky-(Th $mj yhwh lbDj http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=05945 - )l-Kl-h http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=0776 - (ru So YHWH translated as http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - and http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=03068 - which should be YAHUWA (Oh He Whom He is)! Now, if YHWH is the name of God then Jesus (S) said in http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=joh+17:6&translation=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=na&sr=1 - John 17:6 (NAS) "I have http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=5319 - - name to the http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=444 - - whom You http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1325 - http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=joh+17%3A6§ion=0&it=kjv&oq=joh%252017%3A6&ot=bhs&nt=na&new=1&nb=joh&ng=17&ncc=17 - John 17:6 - manifested ( http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/extras.cgi?number=5656 - - thy http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3686 - unto the http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=444 - - which thou http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1325 - - 5758 ) http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3427 - Can any Christian show me in the bible whew Jesus (S) declared the name �YHWH = YAHUWAH or the suppose JEHOVAH� Jesus clearly stated in http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2017:26&version=9 - John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. Make no mistake! They remove the words: �thy name or your name� in the NIV translation and add it to footnotes, read for your self: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2017:6&version=31 - John17:6 (NIV) "I have revealed you[ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2017:6&version=31#fen-NIV-26755a#fen-NIV-26755a - Footnotes:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2017:26&version=9 - John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. Jesus (S) said in http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=joh+5:43&translation=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=na&sr=1 - John 5:43 "I have http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2064 - http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3962 - - name , and you do not http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2983 - receive Me; http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=1437 - if http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=243 - another http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2064 - comes in his http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2398 - own http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3686 - name , you will http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2983 - receive him. Did Jesus (S) really comes in the name of YHWH = YAHUWAH = JEHOVAH? In http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?query=joh+10:25&translation=kjv&ot=bhs&nt=na&sr=1 - John 10:25 http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2424 - Jesus http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=611 - answered them, "I http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3004 - told you, and you do not http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4100 - believe ; the http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=2041 - works that I http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=4160 - - Father's http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=3686 - Did Jesus (S) did any work in the name of YHWH = YAHUWAH OR JEHOVAH? The answer is no! So which name he declared to his disciples? Look what it says here in http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=joh+12:13&translation=str&st=1&new=1&sr=1 - Joh 12:13 - Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Did Jesus (S) comes in the name of YHWH = YAHUWAH OR JEHOVAH? This is the name that Jesus (S) comes in: http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=lu+1:31&translation=str&st=1&new=1&sr=1 - Lu 1:31 - And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+1:25&translation=str&st=1&new=1&sr=1 - Mt 1:25 - And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. Not YHWH = YAHUWAH OR JEHOVAH! And Jesus said in http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=mt+10:41&translation=str&st=1&new=1&sr=1 - Mt 10:41 - He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward. Peter testimony when address the Jews: Ye men of Jesus (pbuh) said in Qur'an 3: 49-51 - Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers. Nothing new, it�s all in the bible, Jesus (pbuh) said: ��Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and my God, and your God.� ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2020:16-17%20&version=9 - John 20:16-17 AKJV) According to him, his Father is �OUR GOD and HIS GOD; He has a GOD, He said: �MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.� In Quran he says: Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good TNC ------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 5:58am
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LOL!! tnc, my very next post was-
I just found a website very interesting.
Claims GOD's name is just EHYEH, translating it to I am is wrong, as is using YHWH and Jehovah.
On one of these threads someone mentioned the equivalent of EHYEH in arabic, I AM. Is there something like that in the Quran EHYEH- would it be just HYH? ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:00am
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The differance is that in one case the covenant is fulfilled and the other it is changed for some reason. Do we know why Allah changes a covenant? ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:09pm
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beleiver,
my understanding is that in simple: to each people whom God sent a prophet and guidance, the covenant was between that prophet and God, to live by that command in order to achieve salvation.
Those who will break that covenant will fail to achieve the salvation.
Thus all of God's prophets, (we commonly know, i.e., Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus) and Mohammmed (pbut) all had a covenant with God to do their Job of delivering that message to their people, and what each person does with it is that's person's fulfillment or breach of that covenant, and that person is the only one who is rewarded or punished for his choice.
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 7:01pm
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Am I the only one that can speak Hebrew?
אהיה אשר אהיה
The above means: Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I shall be that I shall be)
The form "I am that I am" comes from the King James version not the actual Jewish Bible. Shall I have to explain in detail what the above means?
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Posted By: Rukkaiyah
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 12:54am
| Why is everyone arguing about the name of Allah, Yehwe or God. Allah is one and that's what we should work from. We are all the same to Allah, doesn't matter what we call him, asma al husna. We need to work on how to please him more than the name we call upon him with. Allah is the best name as it denotes "The only god" which cannot be played around with, so muslims prefer to call upon Allah, more than any other name. Alhamdolilah. |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 2:21am
We still follow the old covenants: circumcision, not eating pork, etc....
Christians are the only one who have forsaken the covenants. I can't see how they have been fulfilled when God stated they were perpetual covenants. At what point does something perpetual become fulfilled?
Was Saul a Prophet or Messenger of God? ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Rukkaiyah
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 3:13am
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Salam, Christians follow the New Testament which was changed by St Peter. St Peter had added his own thoughts and made it ok to eat anything. This is not what Jesus (PBUH) had propogated, but what was amended in the new testament by St Peter. So in fact, the covenant is still one.
Saul is both a Prophet and Messenger of God as these definitions have the same meaning. A Prophet propogates the message from God.
All Praises due to Allah.
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Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:09am
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vs. Allah is everywhere at once, but nowhere in particular: he indwells nothing. (Q2:109; Q4:125) One wonders (if only for polemical purposes, naturally). Does the author of this table mean to either suggest or imply that the Muslims are somehow losing out because the Quran excludes the story about Moses who, when he asked to see God's face, was shown God's "back side" instead (Ex. 33:23)?
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Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 11:51pm
Salaam,
St. Peter, or Simon, is credited with having written only two epistles, though theologians doubt whether either were actually written by him. Much of the NT was written by Saul, who is mostly responsible for doing away with the covenants of the OT.
"Unlike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism - Judaism and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity - Christianity , Islam distinguishes between a direct messenger of God ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasul - rasul ) and a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet - prophet (nabi). Both are divinely inspired recipients of God's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahi - revelation . However, in addition, nabis are given a divine message or revelation for a community in book form. While every nabi is a rasul, not every rasul is a nabi." Islamically Saul is not among the Prophets of the Quran, nor have I found any mention of him in Hadith, though there are so many it would be easy to miss. I am wondering if you could post the information you have giving him this status in Islam.
------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 15 May 2008 at 6:50am
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People get very confued about Jesus fulfilling and/or abolishing the Law. Jesus fufills the Law for some and abolishes the Law for others. The main important point being what is in your heart, not your outward appearance and rituals.
Ephesians 2
11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)� 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit. I think most Muslims really detest Paul. ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 15 May 2008 at 12:03pm
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Servetus what does: when he asked to see God's face, was shown God's "back side" instead (Ex. 33:23)? mean? See bold
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Posted By: Rukkaiyah
Date Posted: 16 May 2008 at 12:01am
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Most muslims I know don't even know who Paul is, so we cannot generalise and say muslims hate Paul.
Muslims are not supposed to hate anyone except the evil that people do, and guide people away from doing so.
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Posted By: Servetus
Date Posted: 16 May 2008 at 10:55am
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�And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. (Exodus 33:23)�
It�s good that I placed it in quotation marks because the King James translates it as �back parts,� not �back side,� though, to me, the difference between these two is insignificant. What does the statement mean? That�s a good question and I don�t know whom to ask. I think that this is clearly one of those scriptures which, because it contains anthropomorphisms, e.g., references to God�s hand, face, back parts, etc., is potentially problematic at best. Please recall, again, that Maimonides, after familiarizing himself with the ahadith and Quran, wherein he found comparatively few anthropomorphic conceptions of God (as has the author of the above table, it seems), evidently found it necessary to both address the issue and to explain to his Jewish co-religionists that such (�Old Testament�) scriptures are to be understood allegorically. Now back to the question. What does the statement mean? A Google search shows that there are people at present discussing whether this verse means what it might, to the vulgar, or at least the literalist and materialist, exactly suggest. I won�t spell it out because, beyond a certain point, I am not interested in approaching blasphemy. On the other hand, and in marked contrast, there are the rather profound explanations that �the Rabbis� give this verse and these can be read, for example, in the Stone Edition of the (artscroll) Tanakh. I, personally, go with these explanations, or insights, for the most part. And the commentators, largely following Maimonides� lead, I would think, tend toward allegory. That said, I do wish, at times, that non-Muslims, such as (I presume) the author of the opening table, would read the Quran as, for lack of a better word, forgivingly, or at least openly, as they do their own books. But it wouldn�t give us as much to talk and argue about in Interfaith. Serv |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 16 May 2008 at 1:01pm
| Thank you Servetus for the response.... |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 17 May 2008 at 6:06pm
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Why not discuss GOD's name, I find the name interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_that_I_am - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_am_that_I_am
"Many http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theologian - theologians explain that I am that I am is better translated I be that I be. The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew_language - ancient Hebrew language does not have a past, present, or future tense. Instead, it has an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperfective_aspect - imperfective aspect and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfective_aspect - perfective aspect as indicators of time, with no actual determined time."
------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 18 May 2008 at 1:21pm
| Can you please stop quoting Wikipedia? It's not even a scholarly source. |
Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 19 May 2008 at 2:52am
Exodus 3:14 should read:-
"At this God said to Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE." And he added: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, �I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.�""-N.W.T.
The God of Moses never called himself "I AM"!
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Posted By: YHWH Allah
Date Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:57am
My First Name is YHWH, and My Last Name is Allah. YHWH's unpronounceable, Thus not in Recitation. With that Resolved now, Time to begin http://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31375&PID=203508#203508 - Digging . https://twitter.com/yhwh_allah - YHWH Allah |
Posted By: 6wlds2go
Date Posted: 26 May 2016 at 6:18pm
| I only read the OP (don't feel like to read 10 pages), and I am sure Allah is not a name. To me it is The God. |
Posted By: ovibos
Date Posted: 12 December 2017 at 6:36pm
According to the Documentary Hypothesis, there are at least four different authors of the Pentateuch, that is called J, E, D, and P. E, for instance, doesn't mention about YHWH until Exodus. In other words, according to E, the patriarchs like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob didn't know about YHWH, since they call God as El or Elohim. That explains why Ishmael and Muhammaad didn't know about YHWH. According to the Shapira Manuscript -that some believe is an older version of Deuteronomy- God is mostly called as Elohim Eloheinu, not Yahweh. |