Truth about Islam
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12394
Printed Date: 21 November 2024 at 2:14pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Truth about Islam
Posted By: Delta
Subject: Truth about Islam
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 3:59am
|
A good article in here : Link deleted by Mod. full path to the article : Link deleted by Mod then Stories Not Told Before A excellent article that corroborate everything I feel and knew about Islam Mod Edit: Delta, please do not quote links from FFI-related churlish posters and/or it's charlatans.
 We keep this site very civil. Thank you. |
Replies:
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 6:24am
|
So, what is your point, Delta? Can you put down your own observations and comments in short bites? Many of us don't have time to read links and most simply do not bother.
Tell us what you wish to say.
BMZ ------------- Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God." |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 1:34pm
Well, I see that this forum is totally filtered and biased,...it wasn't that way... a shame Perhaps you can answer my doubt : If the Qu'ran is the Verbatim Word of God unchanged, how does the muslims interpret the Qu'ran ? literally or not ? If it isn't interpreted literally then you make changes and adulterations to the verbatim word of God by your own choice If you make it literally then... |
BMZ wrote:Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 2:54pm
|
Delta,
I guess you may hear each person answering according to their knowledge and understanding.
I can tell you that: as a Muslim, as a believer in One God through study, comaprision and logic, and then submission to God's will, I find that this source of guidance is like none other present at this time in this world.
The Quran is the revealed word of God.
Remember people will be people whether Muslims, Christians, Hindus, there are factions within that interpret each differently.
Catholics interpret the Bible different than Mormons or Unitarians for example.
But one thing about the Quran is that it is made simple, yet those who are in disagreement would interpret it the way it pleases them. That does not change the Quran but heir own interpretation if any.
The original has not change after its first compilation fourteen hundred years ago, its there to check back with.
Hasan
------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 4:15pm
|
the Qu'ran is the absolute word of God revealed to man you change and make adulterations of the Word of God in your heart and mind...by your own choice what a shame |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 4:27pm
|
"Well, I see that this forum is totally filtered and biased,...it wasn't that way... a shame"
The monitors are only following the guidelines for posting.
We believe The Quran to be the verbatiom Word of God. As Honeto said, most of The Quran is extremely simple to understand as it was sent for all of mankind. It is straightforward. There are those who will interpret anything to their own understanding, if that is their intention.
Instead of reading dubious sites posted about The Quran, why not just read The Quran? ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 4:37pm
|
"you change and make adulterations of the Word of God in your heart and mind...by your own choice"
Whom are you accusing? ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 5:17pm
Delta,
its a shame that you don't read what I said. It looks as if you don't have a point rather an agenda.
Can you tell me where have I "change and make adulterations" to the word of God?
Truth about Islam is that it is the only religion that bring people to the worship of their creator alone, accepts all of His prophets and message given to them from God. There is none other that do the same.
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 5:36pm
------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 6:11pm
No, it is not. It is just that the link you provided leads to articles written by unknown men and a woman, who are Closet Apostates, like Ali Sina, writing at FFI and other hate sites, which are totally biased against Muslims only.
The substance and the essence of the message remains the same, whichever way, one interptrets. Are you referring to translations in English by various translators?
BMZ ------------- Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God." |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 6:49pm
This forum was one of the best interfaith discussion board, months or a year ago....but it turned to be the worst I ever saw I totally agree that you as a moderator should ban and filter personal attacks, disrespecting people As for religion, I must say that I hate Islam, make that very clear. But not muslims as you and all of you. I attack Islam, not persons, i.e., muslims And to prove you that you are Biased, I never quoted Ali Sina articles or his website you are wrong I gave you a link to a article of Mohammad Asghar in another site However, why are you so afraid about Ali "Sinner" as you like to name him ? If you are so secure about your faith, you will find all answers and get back with any scratch in your believes
No it is not take your Arabic version and a medina sura verse The Medina verses had a number of paragraphs negative towards the Jews and Christians so it is enough to ask you : Do you interpret them literally or you make just your personal interpretation ? You already know that I hate Islam and not muslims, so you are free to take the next step |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 10:07pm
|
Delta,
Before I comment further, I would like to know if you ARE really a Christian?
Yes or No?
Your hating Islam does not bother Muslims or me. You may continue to hate Islam.
I don't have to take any further steps on that. Could you quote some Medinah verses which you want to discuss? Do that in small bites, please.BMZ
Edited to add on the last para.
------------- Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God." |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 12:38am
Roman Catholic
Sura 9:5 http://quranexplorer.com/ |
Posted By: myahya
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 3:38am
|
Delta, many verses in the Quran can be interpreted
literally and the meanings are straight forward and clearest. A Muslim reads
Quran and comprehends the clearest verses and understands what he/she should
understand. However, if one does not understand a verse or verses (if they be
honest and not biased or intended) they simply say that they don�t understand that or
this verse. On the other hand, even if there are different interpretations then you can not conclude that the Quran is changed. At last you can say you are not sure about interpretations, but this opens a window to do research to find the truth. The Quran is the Quran in truth. The literal as well as possible underlying meanings do not change in fact. I should emphasize that there may be wrong interpretations but it does not imply that the Quran must have been changed. A sincere Muslim does read Quran and act according to what he/she understands without a doubt and tries to more comprehend the (literal and non-literal) right meanings sincerely. The guidance would be from Allah swt. |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 1:47pm
verbatim is verbatim, absolute is absolute, complete, perfect; pure; unlimited; definite, positive; not relative this is what islam claims about the Qu'ran I didn't conclude the Qu'ran is changed, but rather it is being changed all the way by each people interpretation Reading a passage of the Quran in context does not mean just reading it with the preceding and following verses. You have to also know the sha�ne nozool, i.e. the historic context, why and in what occasion Muhammad said a certain verse. That is why you have tafseer. Tafseer is the interpretation of the Quran. Tafseer means interpreting, clarifying, expounding. It is derived from fasara, which means "to explain, to open or to unveil" Many books of tafseer have been written. Does this mean that you can't interpret the absolute word of God, the Verbatim Word of God ? Logically, being absolute word of God, there is no other way of interpretation other than that of Bin Laden |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 5:59pm
|
But speaking of verse 9:5 you need only read the preceding and following verses to understand the interpretation. Literally speaking, since the verses clearly state the Messenger of Allah was present, then these verses are speaking of a specific time and a specific treaty. They would not literally be addressing a time other than that of The Prophet Mohammed.
------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 6:24pm
|
Delta,
you are making fun of yourself. You claim to be one of those who claim to follow "Prince of Peace" and spread love on this earth, really?
you don't seem to practice what you believe:
First this is no place for those who hate any one's faith or belief.
If you hate what some of us believe. I would suggest you stay away from those hate websites, the hate is eating you up according to your own belief.
This is a place to learn and promote knowledge and understanding and love with some rules.
There is no compulsion on your part or on ours, each and everyone of us is free to believe whatever he/she choose.
Let me ask you this what is your understanding of these verses from your Holy Bible, these words are sacred to you as you believe they are from God. Now can you tell me what you read, and what you interpret and what you practice from these, as you claim to be a Roman Catholic??
Here are the quotes from Exodus Chapter 20
4 'You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=5593 - heaven above or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth.
5 'You shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I, http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6291 - Yahweh your God, am a jealous http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=5217 - God and I punish a parent's fault in the children, the grandchildren, and the great-grandchildren among those who hate me; Peace, Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 7:52pm
Thank you. Shasta'sAunt, Honeto and myahya have already provided you with the answers.
Any Scripture must be read in sections or chapters as each section conveys a complete message. You will see that in all scriptures.
In order to understand, you must first read Surah 8 and then continue reading into Surah 9. Once you have read both of them together, only then you will realise why those Muslims, of that time or particular period, were asked to fight back their oppressors.
By simply pointing out just 9:5 as a verse on it's own and showing it as a Commandment to Muslims to fight all others in the world, is being plain dishonest.
If 9:5 were an order to kill, all the Europeans, who came and later colonised Muslim lands by deceit, would have been killed the day they stepped in.
Hope you will seriously read Surah 8 & 9 together and you will require no further explanation.
Cheers
BMZ
------------- Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God." |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 8:09pm
One can easily understand Qur'aan's message without going into Tafseers, Ahaadith and Shane-Nuzool, etc.
The Arabs in the time of the Prophet just heard the Message and understood it without the help of Tafseers, Ahaadith and any Shane-Nuzool.
You hate Islam and I hate Bin Laden. His is a political battle which has nothing to do with Islam. In terms of comparison, I would compare him with Martin Luther, whose teachings led to the creation of the monster Hitler.
The Crusaders slaughtered the Jews in the name of their Lord and justified killing of the Jews as having 'holy mercy' upon them by packing them off to heaven.
Bush is another holy freak. Let us leave politics out here.BMZ ------------- Shasta's Aunt: "Well, there's the difference you see. The Bible was written by man about God, The Quran was revealed to man by God." |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 10 May 2008 at 5:47am
|
One problem though is that Islam is political- as it's aim is to control all aspects of a person's life. Alot of history has passed since the crusades. Thankfully we have matured.
009.004 009.005 009.006 I understand these verses as: The pagans who convert to Islam, have a treaty with Muslims,repent or ask for your protection will not be slain. Only those that resist will be killed. Is that correct?
------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 11 May 2008 at 12:53am
All Praises are for Allah (S).
Peace My friend!
Well you understand it wrong!
Not who convert to Islam! Verse 6 conforms that: PICKTHAL: And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not. SHAKIR: And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. tnc ------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: myahya
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:31am
|
Delta, the right interpretations are in fact invariant beside Allah swt. Let me more clarify what I was going to say: Quran has both literal as well as underlying meanings. However, one can understand many verses straight forward by their own wisdom and intelligence directly. If you have read Quran, you may have encountered the verses about having Ehsan with regards to parents, doing Infagh to poor people and many others. All of them are easily understandable. Do not blindly attack to Tafseer. In Quran Allah swt commands us to do Ta�aghol and Tadabbor in the words of Him. Islam was the first and last religion which emphasized and encouraged people to do research and use their wisdom and brain to find out things. That is why the most important miracle of Islam is a book. We have the task to do Tadabbor in Quran. For doing so, our first reference and origin would be the prophet, the teacher of the book. Sha�ene nozool is also needed as historical evidence for more clarifying. Delta: �Logically, being absolute word of God, there is no other way of interpretation other than that of Bin Laden� I am sorry; I do not see any logic in this sentence. Allah swt has given wisdom to you and intelligence to distinguish between right and wrong. You can not stand in front of Hagh on the last day to say that �I used to hate Islam because of Ladan�s (or other�s) interpretations of Quran�. Obviously there is no logical ground for this claim of yours. You can do Tadabbor and use your wisdom to find the truth and right. The enemies of Islam do intentionally generate many wrong interpretations and/or misuse other interpretations to misguide people and make them hate Islam. It is not surprising. Why are you a victim of such an evil plan? |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 9:14am
|
Delta,
I did not hear your response to my last post, are you there?
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 10:33am
Salaam!
The reason why Christians are not getting the right understanding is because they read only the Quran and leave out the explanation of the Prophet (S) (Sunnah).
This is what Allah (S) said:
4:113 But for the Grace of Allah to thee and his Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For Allah hath sent down to thee the "Book and wisdom" and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before): And great is the Grace of Allah unto thee. Coommenting on this verse Imaam ash-Shaafi'ee's said: "Allah has mentioned that 'the book' (Al-Kitaab) which is the Quran and he mentioned 'The wisdom' (al- Hikmah) and I have learnt from the people of knowledgr that 'al- hikmah' is the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger (S).........." So the explanation of the Quran is the Sunnah!
tnc
------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 11:14am
Salam, Take this article from Brother Muslims to muslims, he is not apostate neither offensive http://www.submission.org/quran/warsh.html
ok, read this book : (historian ) Will Durant - The Story of Civilization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Durant - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Durant In his The Story of Civilization, describes the Muslim invasion of India as "probably the bloodiest story in history." The North Western region of India is called the Hindu Kush ("the slaughter of the Hindu") as a reminder of the vast number of Hindu slaves who died while being marched across the Afghan Mountains to the Muslim slave markets in Central Asia. The Buddhists were also targeted for destruction. In AD 1193 Muhammad Khilji burned to the ground their famous library and the Buddhist stronghold of Bihar. By the way I was a little upset because your rules destroyed this forum, man must wait 2 days to discover that the moderator was a little confused about Ali Sina whatsoever, I feel sorrow for muslims, and like them very much peace |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 2:49pm
|
Delta,
you say, "I feel sorrow for muslims, and like them very much". I don't know how true that is comparing to what you write.
You say you hate Islam, but love Muslims. But here you are mentioning the acts of some Muslims, even if these accounts are true, that is due to actions of people (and you say you love them) not Islam (you say you hate). Just like Christians are to be good and value life, yet they did not practice it neither in the Ibarian peninsula after taking it back from Mulsims or in the Americas with the locals, nor during the previous or current colonization of Islamic world.
So let us keep the politics out.
And I am still waiting your response to my previous post!
Hasan
------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:09pm
My anger was due to this forum rules, and I overreacted, nothing to do with religion They destroyed this forum, how can be discussed something in here ? I never saw a forum acting like this ======== You say you hate Islam, but love Muslims. But here you are mentioning the acts of some Muslims, even if these accounts are true, that is due to actions of people (and you say you love them) not Islam (you say you hate).
======== Correct. The history is something that we must dig in it deeply, find order in chaos Was the moderator who first accused the Christians about crusades, perhaps He also thought about inquisition But, as you said : it is complex, actions that must be fully understood There is much to say about that, that is true and you can confirm it There is so much ashame in the Islam Past as the Christians Past Was the moderator who launched the first stone, not me ========== Just like Christians are to be good and value life, yet they did not practice it neither in the Ibarian peninsula after taking it back from Mulsims or in the Americas with the locals, nor during the previous or current colonization of Islamic world. ========== Don't say anything else about history, ok ? As I said, there is much to say ========== So let us keep the politics out.
And I am still waiting your response to my previous post!
Hasan
========== Agree Is difficult to discuss in here for God sake, why this ? |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 4:29pm
In order to understand my hate for some religion ( NOT PEOPLE ) You have to start afresh studding all doctrines and faiths Keep out what is human - crusades, slaughters, killings, everything what is history God is not history, God is present, God Is ========== If you hate what some of us believe. I would suggest you stay away from those hate websites,
======= I don't agree in that, if that sites are related to faith and doctrines rather than history it must be read If it quotes hadiths, quran verses, and it gives a critical outside view of our religion, then we must read and try to find answers Being God perfect, also His religion must be perfect ======== This is a place to learn and promote knowledge and understanding and love with some rules.
========= Knowledge can't be a blind and a brainwashed one, apply this to any religion in the world ======= There is no compulsion on your part or on ours, each and everyone of us is free to believe whatever he/she choose.
======== Agree ========
Let me ask you this what is your understanding of these verses from your Holy Bible, these words are sacred to you as you believe they are from God. Now can you tell me what you read, and what you interpret and what you practice from these, as you claim to be a Roman Catholic??
Here are the quotes from Exodus Chapter 20
4 'You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=5593 - above or on earth beneath or in the waters under the earth.
5 'You shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I, http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=6291 - your God, am a jealous http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=5217 - and I punish a parent's fault in the children, the grandchildren, and the great-grandchildren among those who hate me; ============= |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 12 May 2008 at 6:47pm
|
tnc I don't think you understood my statement-
I understand these verses as:
The pagans who convert to Islam
or
have a treaty with Muslims
or
repent
or
ask for your protection will not be slain.
Only those that resist will be killed. Is that correct? ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 4:29am
My friend, those verses we are discussing there has to do with war, Muslims against the Pagans. There were a truce agreed between them in verse 009.004 YUSUFALI: (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous. But when the truce ended the are still at war verse 009.005 YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. When you are at war what you do to the enemy, watch them or try to kill them? Take in consideration modern day war; it�s the same war with the Pagans and Muslims only it is modern day Pagans (Halloween it there their trade mark); it�s just that they barrow the bible to move the masses in disguise. Now, when the occupier (modern day Pagans) in Its war my friend! But the problem is you didn�t recognize this verse 009.006 YUSUFALI: If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge. Now, let�s just stop for a moment and go back when the crusaders begin to invade http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2031&version=9 - Numbers 31 3And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian. 7And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. 9And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. 10And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. 17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. 21And Eleazar the priest said unto the men of war which went to the battle, This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD commanded Mose http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=joshua%206&version=9 - Joshua 6 2And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour 3And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days. 20So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. 21And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. Jesus (S) to the effect, do not look at the speck in some one eye but first remove the plank that in your eye. truthnowcome ------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 5:52am
|
tnc- Yes I know it is in war. You are completely misunderstanding my point!!
I was agreeing with BMZ that not all the europeans would be slaughtered.-"By simply pointing out just 9:5 as a verse on it's own and showing it as a Commandment to Muslims to fight all others in the world, is being plain dishonest.
""If 9:5 were an order to kill, all the Europeans, [I made this bold] who came and later colonised Muslim lands by deceit, would have been killed the day they stepped in. "Yes, Numbers and Joshua is history of what GOD commanded to keep His chosen people free form horrible negative influence.
LOL!! relax tnc!! ------------- John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:29pm
|
Delta,
I am glad to see you composed, thank God. Welcome, may God help us all.
In response to my quotes from the O/T, you wrote:
"Old is Old, and prior to Jesus I don't give much of authority, because the plan of God was not yet fulfilled "
May I ask, if that view is personal? because I don't know of any who associate themselves to the Roman Catholic church and yet discount the entire O/T.
I also find it quite contrary to your interest in proving evidance of events through history, yet discounting an important source of history, for many if not for me.
Let me ask you this also, why do you hate the belief that says: submit to the Will of God, the One who gave you life, and the ability to see, hear, feel, think and so on?
Becaue that's all I do as a Muslim, submit with my whole heart and whole self, to none other than God.
Peace,
Hasan
------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 13 May 2008 at 6:54pm
|
Delta-
My apologies but I have to jump on the band wagon myself. No sincere Christian with the intent on dialogue wll start discussion with the following thesis: I hate Islam not muslims.
That simplistic, yet contradictory tone is non-sensical. You cannot dettach all Muslims from their religion especially Muslims who practice Islam faitfully the same can be said about Christians and Christianity. Unless you consider Muslims misguided (which is your opinion) it does you no good and no converts by starting a thesis using the word "hate."
I think the main problem with Christians coming to this site is they come here trying to disprove Islam while many of them only have an amateur's knowledge of Islam. While else would many of them spend time googling or net searching on anti-Islam websites? If Christians have a sincere disagreement with Islam you must be prepared to accept all kinds of responses and different answers not simply reject ones and accept ones.
For example many Christians don't understand (and it took me awhile to understand) that the Arabic language isn't as simplistic as English. There are many words in Arabic when translated into English, have different meanings. Although the English translations and the usage of words are clear to us English speakers there are words which may require explaining.
For instance in the first Surah "The Exordium" or The Opening, in the penguin edition of the Qur'an God says in first-person-plural:
"All praises are due to Allah Lord of the Universe!"
Some other Qur'an say "All praise sare due (to Allah) Creator and Sustainer of the Worlds!"
The word Alameen has different meanings. It means universe, worlds etc. It means "all that exists."
I think it is in the best interest of our Christian neighbors to come with a more humble approach. Instead of posting stuff about "The truth about Islam" to anti-Islamic sites. This is not proving a point objectively its doing it the lazy way!
|
Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 8:28pm
By killing inocent people? But what you have to say about gentle Jesus sacond coming? Do you think the Zionis Christians is doing the right thing after youwould have read this?:
Now, let look at your King of Kings and Lord of Lords, he is your gentle Jesus; he said if your enemy slap you on one side of your cheek give him the other. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2019:7-21&version=9 - REVELATION 19 It is mentioned: �for he is Lord of Lord, and king of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen and faithful. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation17:13-14&version=9 - Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife (the church) hath made herself ready. (Rev. 19:7) And to her (the church) was granted that she (the church) should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saint. (V.8) And he said unto me, Write, Bless are THEY which are called unto the marriage SUPPER of the Lamb. And he said unto me, These are the true saying of God. (V.9) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the FOWLS that flies in the midst of heaven come and gather yourself together unto the SUPPER of the Great God; that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18) We have the saint and the fowls that fly in midst (Air) of heaven, they are called unto the marriage SUPPER to eat of those people. Eat what people, are they cannibal? No! It is war they will declare on them from the air (midst Heaven) which fowls or bird that flies in midst (Air) heaven can eat those people, feather bird or iron bird? Its plane, your gentle Jesus will drop bombs on the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18) This one is a bit more clear: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah%2014&version=9 - Zechariah 14 :12 Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah%2014:12&version=49;#cen-NASB-23081A#cen-NASB-23081A - A )rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. That is a nuclear war, only a Nuke can do that and it is a stone throw in our time! And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smith the nation: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Revelation 19:15) IT�S YOUR GENTLE JESUS MEEK AND MILD! And again make no mistake, the �Anointed President� already preparing the way by �bombing away anyone who stand in the way like the bible says they will �eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. (Rev.1917-18) This is no joke read for your self: Link: http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm - How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State Clip: The First Prince of the Theocratic States of
It happened quietly, with barely a mention in the media. Only the Washington Post dutifully reported it. http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm#_edn1 - - [2] On December 24, 2001, Pat Robertson resigned his position as President of the Christian Coalition. Behind the scenes religious conservatives were abuzz with excitement. They believed Robertson had stepped down to allow the ascendance of the President of the Robertson�s act was symbolic, but it carried a secret and solemn revelation to the faithful. It was the signal that the Bush administration was a government under God that was led by an anointed President who would be the first regent in a dynasty of regents awaiting the return of Jesus to earth. The President would now be the minister through whom God would execute His will in the nation. George W. Bush accepted his scepter and his sword with humility, grace and a sense of exultation. As Antonin Scalia, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court explained a few months later, the Bible teaches and Christians believe �� that government �derives its moral authority from God. Government is the �minister of God� with powers to �revenge,� to �execute wrath,� including even wrath by the sword�� http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm#_edn3 - George W. Bush began to wield the sword of God�s revenge with relish from the beginning of his administration, but most of us missed the sword play. I have taken the liberty to paraphrase an illustration from Leo Strauss, the father of the neo-conservative movement, which gives us a clue of how the hiding is done: �One ought not to say to those whom one wants to kill, �Give me your votes, because your votes will enable me to kill you and I want to kill you,� but merely, �Give me your votes,� for once you have the power of the votes in your hand, you can satisfy your desire.� http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm#_edn4 - Notwithstanding the advice, the President�s foreign policy revealed a flair for saber rattling. He warned the world that �nations are either with us or they�re against us!� His speeches, often containing allusions to biblical passages, were spoken with the certainty of a man who holds the authority of God�s wrath on earth, for he not only challenged the evil nations of the world, singling out Iraq, Syria, Iran, and North Korea as the �axis of evil,� but he wielded the sword of punishment and the sword of revenge against his own people: the American poor and the middle class who according to the religious right have earned God�s wrath by their licentiousness and undisciplined lives. End of quote --------------------------- And he also has his flock to help him: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11065.htm - ), http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell73.html - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19533.htm - clip: By David Corn 13/03/08 " http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html - " -- -- Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it. ------------- LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES! |
Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 14 May 2008 at 10:36pm
|
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir Rajeem,
Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim
>>As for religion, I must say that I hate Islam, make that very clear. But not muslims as you and all of you. I attack Islam, not persons, i.e., muslims<<
Sounds like "hate the sin but not the sinner" approach got messed up this time.
The arabic word Islam is from the root : seen, laam, mim, which means "peace".
Islam means "submission to the will of God". Those who do this act of submission are termed "muslims" - to understand this one may need to know arabic - how nouns and verbs come from the same root, but have different beginnings and endings.
So, you said in your post that you hate "peace", and "the act of submission to God", however you do not hate those who perform this act, ie who "submit to God".
Does that bear any logic?
You hate a religion but not the followers of that religion? That is only possible if you think the followers are not sincere to the path they associate themselves to, or are not passionate enough for their choices. Neither of which is true. So if you come here with "hate" which by the way is also not congruous to your own faith, you should receive little tolerance.
You find this website heavily filtered, but I can still see your membership and your hate comments tolerated in broad daylight - that is some filtering, alhamdulillah.
------------- <font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Delta
Date Posted: 15 May 2008 at 2:33pm
No, We don't dismiss the OT, I just said that it is very old, and I mean very old...the time when the message of God was somehow tempered with human laws You see that when Moses admitted divorce, then Jesus said : No, God don't allow that... OT was not the verbatim word of God.....was just inspired But Jesus is in fact the verbatim word of God made flesh ======== I also find it quite contrary to your interest in proving evidance of events through history, yet discounting an important source of history, for many if not for me.
========= Jesus renewed it all, made things clear because He is the verbatim word of God in flesh Old laws was clarified, renewed, so for a catholic the OT is a collection of prophecies about the Messiah and the history of the jews......as history unfolds...we reach Jesus who renewed it all You have in here the words of Jesus about OLD and NEW And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles. Mark, 2-22================ Let me ask you this also, why do you hate the belief that says: submit to the Will of God, the One who gave you life, and the ability to see, hear, feel, think and so on?
=========== Good question, Honeto I'm a father of two little children, our relationship is based on love and not fear and slavery. What I most want from my children is love not fear and horror And they as little children can't give me nothing God is not a tyrannic, He doesn't put you in straightjackets with a bunch of rules : do this, do that, how to pray, how to eat, how to wear, how to wash, etc...etc... Where God is there is liberty (2 Corinthians 3,17) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty. God doesn't need that men make a home for Him, He is the CREATOR, can't He make his own home in this world ? does He need men for that ? God is love and nothing more I said that I hate Islam (religion) because I see muslims lost and emptiness, just fearing the wrath of God, nothing more...they fear and don't love, they make rituals but yet they are hungry, and I feel sorrow Love him Honeto, don't fear Him, open your heart, and just say to Him that you want to know Him and Love A prayer just like this : - Who are you God ? please give me strength in your truth , I want to love you, to give my soul and my life to you What I mean is make your prayers, but never be biased with God You will get your answer, believe me ============ Becaue that's all I do as a Muslim, submit with my whole heart and whole self, to none other than God.
Peace,
============ My little childrens don't submit to me, they love me They run to me giving me kisses, a lot, and I am glad...is just what I want from them : love When you love, then you respect When you love, then you don't do anything wrong Love is the key for not making sins |
Posted By: myahya
Date Posted: 16 May 2008 at 1:26am
|
Delta: I said that I hate Islam (religion) because I
see muslims lost and emptiness, just fearing the wrath of God, nothing
more...they fear and don't love, they make rituals but yet they are hungry, and
I feel sorrow Unfortunately many people in this world are only looking at what Muslims do (or I�d better to say what news show them how Muslims are). As a Muslim I am personally sorry and I also feel deepest sorrow when I see lost Muslims and evil actions done by a group of lost Muslims or at least populations who have the label of being Muslim. But again, one can not say they hate Islam because of what the lost Muslims (or a Muslim-labeled population) may do or have done. Instead, they shall be sincere and do their best to be not lost and find the truth. It is our responsibility as a human being, isn�t it? I accept it (and do myself) if one says they hate the evil action of those who have been trying to produce and inject deviations in religions specially Islam and feel sorrow for those who are lost in this evil strategies and pray and do their best to not be a victim. Who has told you Islam is only for fearing and wrath of God? Is it written in Quran? Or Mohammad (sawa) said? Go back to the life of the prophets (all of them) and you can see the deepest acts of love towards Allah swt. But please try not to be a one dimensional person who says everything is love and there is nothing more. I do not accept it. As soon as you speak of love, the hate is on the other side of the coin. Finding and choosing the right couple of love/hate in this world would be our art. A prayer just like this : Such a prayer is what a sincere Muslim used to do everyday. |
