Umrah ?
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: General Discussion
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13174
Printed Date: 31 October 2024 at 6:33pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Umrah ?
Posted By: Gulliver
Subject: Umrah ?
Date Posted: 14 September 2008 at 4:42pm
|
I am wondering.
Does anyone know if it is possible for a non-Muslim to make a journey, companion a Muslim while he perform the Umrah ? I believe in God and have a sincere desire for, and belief in submission to the will of God in all things, with the help of the same God. I've been to the Mosque a few times, and can sit there for long periods in peaceful contemplation of the Creator and in prayer. It is a 'house of God,' and as surely as I can pray anywhere - I find real serenity and peace in the Mosque too and love to go. I don't know that I can claim honestly to believe anything else at this point, and it would be an outright lie to make any other claim.
Thanks for any reply and God bless.
|
Replies:
Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 4:12am
|
There should be some way to arrange a visit for you to the place of wo rship established for all mankind (Al Naas). But apparantly, it appears that the Saudis are sitting on the sacred house of Ka,abah and the Clerics controlling the religious affairs may not permit you to go there.
It is understood that non-Muslims cannot go there. I do not know how and why. There is some law probably described in the Hadith. But Quran says let every one who can make a pilgrimage to the House of Allah, let him do so.
The best way to achieve your purpose is that those authorities who are controlling, if any one (non-Muslim) requests them to arrange a visit to Makkah, they should arrange it themselves under a suitable guard or guide. But they haveno right to stop any one from seeing and praying in the place.
A real better reply can be given by some one who knows the Islamic as well as saudi laws. ------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 9:14am
| Well I'm sure there are several additional reasons why aside from what minuteman has pointed out. I too, think Beitullah (House of God) should be welcomed to all human beings regardless of religion if we are not to be labeled as an exclusionary people. I'm sure Saudi law would prohibit any non-Muslim from visiting EXCEPT those who have money. With money I'm sure you can buy your way in the most sacred of places. |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 9:51am
| Why not just testify that there is no deity worthy of worship except the creator of the heavens and earth (God) and that Muhammad Ibn Abdullah of Arabia 570ce is the Messenger of God. Afterwords, go to the Saudi Embassy website and select an "approved" travel agent who will make all necessary arrangements for your trip. Once you have made the above declaration, phone any local Masjid and request a letter stating that you are a Muslim, which the embassy will likely require along with your passport and visa application. The approved travel agent may also assist with this letter. |
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 8:00pm
|
As'Salamu Alaikum,
You showed an easy way brother { AbuAyisha}
 .Well Gulliver, non-muslims are n't allowed to enter the premises of Haram.
Being in my own country i cannot travel "CANTONMENT area". Only those who are connected to military or defence are permitted there. I can move in any part of my country without any visa or any specific entry cards.
I guess every country must be having such rule. I cannot question illogically as why am not allowed in my own country. Similarly,, Islam is a universal religion and any one can visit any of the mosques of thr world except two "cantonment areas" - Makkah and Medinah. They require a specific visa and i.e as told in bro.Abuayisha's post - "La ilaha illal la, Muhammadur Rasool Allah". Here only those who are muslims are allowed to enter.
Very glad to know that you experience serenity in mosques. I pray that you also experience the serenity and joy, being in Makkah and Medinah, and share with us one day , insha Allah.
Convey our salams to your friend, whom i see has influenced you with Islam. I did read your intro thread and learn of it.
------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 11:05pm
|
3:96, The very first house (for worship) built for the mankind is the one in Bakkah (makkah) and that is blessed and source of guidance for all the creation.
3:97, In that are the clear signs (of) the status of Ibraheem. And whoever entered it became safe (comfortable). And it is binding upon mankind to pay a visit (pilgrimage) to the house whoever can afford (manage) it. And whoever opposed it then Allah is free from any need of his creation.
------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
||||
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 12:33am
|
Thank you for all you help here :-) "With money I'm sure you can buy your way in the most sacred of places. "
No, I am not one of those. Relatively I have more money than some. I have saved for a trip for a time and wished to make some kind of 'spiritual pilgrimage'. It does not have to be the Umrah or to Mekka or anywhere really. Just about a month away somewhere where I can pray more, be away 'from the world' for a time, and try, TRY and give fuller attention to God, seek to know what God's will might be. where the direction ahead lies. As far as I am concerned, it would be absolute hypocrisy and a 'blasphemy,' for want of a better word, to 'buy your way' in any 'sacred place'. It seems to me that so many of the 'great' 'religious leaders' made journeys 'into the desert,' where they 'meet with God'. From Moses onwards.
For me - that 'desert' is the heart. It's the source of all 'intent' and the place that must become truly 'holy'. But like all prophets - for me, being, at least nominally 'Christian' - I believe, it is good to get away to a physical place too if possible, for a time, where you can really look into your own heart and find the God you seek, or God speak to you. And sharing the experience in a place like that, where the people of the world - at least those of true faith, strip themselves of worldly things, and show solidarity in true faith, and humility before their God. I was going to go on a much needed 'holiday' - spend time wherever, doing whatever. But I don't want or need that, not really, not deep down. Some might say, 'nice that you have that option'. That's not it either. Just some place for a 'soul jihad' perhaps, away from the noise and distractions of the world for a time. Though I fully realise it is when we think we can be alone - that there are other 'noises and distractions' inside of us that can often shout louder than any 'noise' the world may throw our way.
It's just something I have been thinking about. My friend has waited a long time too, and we just seem to be seeking something the same at a deep, core spiritual level, that I wondered if God had not brought us together for this purpose too. God does work in mysterious ways, as we all know. That we come from different 'faiths' to share what we have in common, to teach each other and grow in understanding and faith, and love of the Creator is what is truly important - the way of peace - the way that does not lead to any human being hurting another in ANY way and use the 'name of God' as some excuse. That is the worst 'blasphemy' as far as I am concerned.
The latter part of the declaration is something I cannot make, not yet anyway, if ever. I don't know. It would be like paying to enter a sacred place for me to say such a thing, when I cannot honestly say it is what I truly believe at this time. It would be a lie and that would be no good to anyone. Jesus said, "take up your cross and come follow me." I realise Islam does not believe in the crucifixion. To me I see in the 'crucifixion' utter submission to the will of God - even to 'death, death on the cross'. And the 'cross is folly to the world'. The wordly man does not understand the meaning of true submission - complete submission, and perfect obedience to God's will in all things - even 'death' itself, as and when and how it comes. I just don't know. I am trying to learn. I submit my lack of knowing which is, well - infinite :-) to God too when I pray, and in that there is less worrying about any of it. If God wills, it will happen. A poster said how my friend had influenced me. We influence, teach best by examply I believe. "By their fruits you shall know them." My friend told me a week after we met and talked that he'd have sworn I was a true 'Muslim' if I were not a 'Christian'. I told him I did not know what I was, and was very reluctant to use 'labels' as they more often than not caused greater division between people. So, the journey continues :-) Thank you all again so much and
God bless all of us - and may the Good Allah lead us all on the 'right path' to 'the Light' of 'Jannah'. :-)
I will keep you posted folks :-)
|
Posted By: Alwardah
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 5:31am
|
For once we cannot blame the Saudi government or their scholars. O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin (polytheists, pagans, idolators etc) are impure. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram after this year; and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you if He wills, out of His bounty. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (Surah At-Taubah 9: 28) This command of Allah�s has being in place since the 9th Hijrah not since the Saudi came into power. The only solution is to accept Islam. Peace ------------- �Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165) "Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155) |
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 5:57am
|
But that would be coercion and that is forbidden in the Qu'ran. "No compulsion in religion". I am not a polytheist. I am not a pagan and I am not an idolator. So your qu'ranic verse does not apply to me from what I see and understand of all three of those terms. Am I 'impure'. God alone knows that.
I was only asking. It's not a big deal. My friend asked if I'd go with him. I respect the religious laws of the place and won't go.
Rabi'a al-'Adawiyya,
an 8th Century Islamic Saint from
|
Posted By: H3OO
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 9:32am
|
to my research i have not come across anything that stops nonmuslims from entering the mosques. i heard this thing that once prophet (sa) allowed a delegation of Christians to say their prayers of their own way in his mosque. O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin (polytheists, pagans, idolators etc) are impure. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram after this year; and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you if He wills, out of His bounty. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (Surah At-Taubah 9: 28) over here impurity doesnt mean physical but refers to spiritual impurity((Aqeeda, IMAN) . This only applies to those who dont believe in the oneness of God OR pray anyone except one God like hindu community. Mosques are built entirely and solely for the worship of one God only and one God alone, so if a nonmuslim say that he is there to worship that one God only he may pray the way he please but if he says that he is there to worship jesus christ or any stone or fire or anyone else except one God, then sorry there is no room for such as such is not permitted Allah. This verse was also to stop the mushriks during the days of prophet(sa) from carrying out their unislamic traditions in the mosque while performing Haj. during those days the mushriks who were completely devoid of any sense used to bring their own Gods made of stone to the mosques to perform Haj. |
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 10:08am
|
Thank you Ahsura. I an assure you that I always have do so seek and pray the One True God - All - the Transecent who created us all. I just feel ready to make the particular part of the declaration regarding Muhammad when I don't know enough about him. It'can very a sensitive area and I'd have to be true and clear in that so that I can make an/all claims in such truth. God, knowing me as God's knows me I feel would have the doors fot the place flung wide open. Thank you again with the others here for all education and support
God be with you.
Kevin
|
Posted By: Israfil
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 11:41am
That remark wasn't applied to you. I'm merely saying for those in the 5% of the world who pretty much own everything, if they wanted could probably buy their way into most sacred places (of course not all). From stories I've heard from those who have met the royal family and those who have been on Hajj I highly doubt this would be trouble. It's unfortunate that this is a relaity but its the way the world is sometimes I wish it wasn't like that. Spirituality (or beng close to God_) shouldn't require money. Frankly if it were up to me the House of God would be open to all (with certain limits of behavioral conduct of course).
|
Gulliver wrote:Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 9:07pm
This is a clear order that the Pagans should never enter the Haram Sharif. But would it apply to all non-Muslims en-masse? I hope not. To be on the better side, if there was any verse of the Quran which said that only Momineen can perform Hajj, that would settle the matter in favor of those who do not allow non-Muslims to goto Hajj.
There is another problem about the word "Al Naas". What does it mean? Does it mean all mankind or those of the mankind who have accepted Islam. If it means those who have accepted Islam then the situation changes. If it means all mankind then the situation becomes reverse. Please concentrate on the word "Al Naas". Thanks. ------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 12:54pm
|
Gulliver,
I do say your self-honesty is quite the important part. And that Allah knows what is in there, as is for all of us. ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 1:51pm
|
I said about my Muslim friend to some of before, meeting him and how he influenced me. I told him about this place and how so many sent him the 'salam' greeting. He is having a difficult time in life at present, and it did his soul good to hear that today I believe. He sent this link for the Qu'ran in different languages, and asked me to post it here incase you did not have one. So I am posting it here. I am sure perhaps you have something like this already. But he asked as a favour and with good intent, and I am honouring that request. Someone might move to the most appropriate place as necessary.
God bless and thanks to all again. Salam.
Thank you again Hafya, and if I seemed 'off' today with anyone - misreading and or misunderstanding, as I have done, I apologise. We Irish are too quick tempered ;-) You don't know what 'soul jihad' truly is till you've had to master an Irish temper. LOL ;-)
God bless us all. http://www.alketab.com/ |
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 1:53pm
|
Just as a matter of curiosity. If I wanted to get a good, reliable, unbaised read on Muhammad, what are the recommendations ?
Thanks again.
|
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 4:06pm
|
"You showed an easy way brother { AbuAyisha}
."I smiled when I read this seekshidayath. Easy way, eh ? lol If you only knew. Be like asking me to abandon my dearest friend in the moments of greatest possible need. Like me asking you to, 'deny' Muhammad in some very core funfamental way. It's a lot of things - but 'easy' is not one of 'em :-)
I could lie about it of course. But that wouldn't enter into it at all.
God bless folks anyway, and again thank you :-)
K
Offer 'dua'(?) for my friend if you remember, please. He asked me to ask you all to pray for him. I say 'pray for' - same as offering dua, I think ? You know what I mean anyway.
|
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 10:14pm
I would recommend the following: Muhammad(his life based on the earliest sources) By Martin Lings It is only 345 pages! ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 17 September 2008 at 10:45pm
This protocol was settled so long time ago debating here is not going to change the rule one iota! The visiting the Inviolable House has certain protocol and minding of the manners that a non believer would never to be able to conduct properly! It takes some learning before you head out there even being a believer cuz I know been there done that! If you like to know the whole mess of 911 was triggered by the American troops males and females cruising around Mecca round about the first gulf war! Which ayah you are referring to about "Al Naas" thing? ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 18 September 2008 at 3:43am
|
"It is only 345 pages!" Is that all ? lol
With all the other books I am gonna have to read.
I can understand that there are protocols to follow in Mecca, and a non believer would not understand them or be able to follow. Other religions have these too. Places become more 'sacred' than people - maybe why there is so much real 'profanity' in the world.
I dunno. Maybe Minuteman told me what I wanted to hear yesterday, "forget islam." He did not mean that at all. He was making a comparison. But maybe that is what I wanted to hear - forget all of it - the 'religious' - the God made in man's image. Cause hard as man tries - it seems to me he cannot rise beyond the concept of God in his own image.
Thank you SignReader. I will have a look at that some time. If I seemed to speak out of turn with anyone yesterday I ask your forgiveness.
It was one of those days, when I agreed with my friend Buddy. I hope I am not thrown out for giving this little pearl of wisdom.
"(Whomever)........ the world's so full of c???....... why bother wipin' your ??s !"
It left me wondering I have to admit. If one reason people do turn to religion - or are attracted by certain aspects of it - is because they have been so steeped in the 'profane' of the world, that anything which offers a sense, glimpse of the 'sacred' is a 'blessing from God' and to be grasped and held onto at all costs.
God bless all.
|
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 18 September 2008 at 4:53am
|
This reminds me of a story I heard two years ago. Ghandi is in London, England. He wants to go into a little church on a sidestreet somewhere, to see, 'how the christians worship'. The man at the door refuses him admission because of the way Ghandi is 'dressed' in his 'white robe' like a 'beggar'. Ghandi apparently claimed that is why he could never emrbace Christianity. Christ was not the problem - the christians were. I must see if I can find more detail on this one folks.
I understand that a person who is not Muslim, or not acquainted with all that is required ritualistically of Islamic faith - may indeed act in a way, knowingly or not, that is not proper in such a place, and really maybe should not be tolerated for 'good' reasons.
I understand and accept that perfectly, and I would rather never go near such a place than offend anyone of true faith that way.
Like Moses, being asked to take off his shoes, when he was in the 'holy place'.
Then there is the one who might genuinely want to know, to learn, to see, to understand and to believe perhaps. But he is refused admission. Not because he won't take off his shoes. Rather because other human beings choose to decide what may or may not be in the heart - the 'intent'.
He/she is not permittted to do so, because they are not 'dressed' a certain way. I realise it's all more complicated than that. Or is it.
It's the heart God looks at.
I fully respect that this is a sacred place for Muslim people, and would not in any way wish to take from that. Dear God no. There are places in Christian world that are held as sacred too.
I was asked a simple question, and I went looking a simple answer. I can't go, not yet, if ever. It would not in the least put me off trying to understand Islamic faith.
I don't mean this in a disrespectful way at all. I am more interested in seeing how Muslims, 'live' the 'life of faith,' than in going to any 'sacred' place - inside or outside of Islam.
So no more arguing over the 'politics' of it all, people :-) I hope someone truly deserving of going, gets to go - a humble soul from a little village somewhere. To see that would be a 'sacred', holy and beautiful thing indeed, and I know, and feel very sure there are many such souls who visit Mecca every year, who worked and saved hard to get there, and show their love of God, by 'taking off' their 'shoes' in the 'holy place' - 'the heart', where they meet with God.
God bless :-)
|
Posted By: Alwardah
Date Posted: 18 September 2008 at 5:32am
|
Hi Gulliver According to all the scholars the word Najasun refers to all Non-Believers not only the pagans and idolotors. I have not read the responses in full (just a quick read) so please forgive me if I say anything that will hurt you or anyone else. You are absolutely correct �There is no Compulsion in Religion.� Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala (God) can be worshiped anyway so there is no need for you to go to the Holy lands to worship Him. If HE wished for all mankind (NAS) to visit the Ka'bah HE would not reveal the Ayah that I quoted above. Why do Muslims and non-Muslims find it so difficult to accept rules for which there is clear evidence from the Glorious Qur'an and/or Sunnah. Why do we do to the Holy Lands? Is it not part of our worship? It is the same with fasting and Salah. Why do only Muslims fast not the rest of mankind? Yes I know the Jews and the Christians fast and pray but not in the manner the Muslims do. There are reports that Christian delegates prayed in the Prophet�s Masjid in Al- Madinah. These event happened before Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala revealed this Ayah. Brother Gulliver, you are sincerely seeking the truth and I pray that Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala will guide you to the beautiful of Islam. Yes I addressed you as brother because we are all the children of Adam and thus part of the human race. I would also like all mankind to visit the Holy Lands and I would also like to pray Salah twice daily and above anything else I would love to dress the way I want. But this is what I want not what Allah (God) wants for me.
Once again I apologize to anyone if my response has hurt them in any way. May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala forgive us for our shortcomings and guide us to become better Muslims who abide by the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah Ameen! Peace. ------------- �Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165) "Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155) |
Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 18 September 2008 at 6:52am
|
I feel that no one has the authority to stop any one from visiting the holy places even though he may be a non-believer. No one can perform pagan woship in that place (Makkah and Madinah). But that is all. If any one wants to go and see what goes on there, I am sure no one is justified to stop any one from paying a visit to the first house built for the worship of Allah. It was the pagans (idolators, Kuffar, the enemies) who put a ban on the Hajj.
That is only my opinion. No one need believe it. I had few verses for the word "Al Naas" in mind. I may post just two verses again. The others I will not do. What Al-wardah has said is correct. there is no worthy Islamic government in the world now.
The verses:
Surely the first house (of worship) for Mankind (All mankind?) is the one at Bakkah, the blessed place and a source of Guidance for all Creation. (2:96)
In it are clear signs i.e. status of Abraham. Whoever entered it became safe. And it is encumbant upon every man, the pilgrimage of the house, whoever can make his way to it. And whoever opposed it (Denied the passage) then Allah is not in need of anything of the all the creation. (2:97
The question arises. Is it encumbant upon every believing man to pay a visit to the house of worship or it encumbant upon every man?
The best thing is to look into the history. What went on during the time of the early (4) Caliphs. There were too many wars going on in those days and things were not stable. We may not find a good example there too. But something can be learnt from that time.
Otherwise, it would be the responsibility of the Muslims to arrange (conduct) a safe visit for any one who wants to go there.
------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 18 September 2008 at 7:47am
|
Nothing you say hurts of offends me Alwardah :-) God bless you too.
I am the one who speaks out of turn at times. It's the Irish temper, and some times plain silly ol' pride getting in the way of everything. I ask God all the time for real humility. And a pure heart. But pride always raises its ugly head. I need to root out of me what I imagine I might not like in another.
So you do not hurt or offend me with anything you say, and I appreciate what you are saying completely, and thank you. I hope it did not seem 'anti-Islam' - talking about the 'sacred' places etc. It's not that at all. I am driven by something that would have me seek what brings the people of the world together - before God, even in the great diversity that there is. Growing up where there is a lot of conflict - supposedly, in the 'name of God', when God had nothing to do with it. You are tempted at times to wonder if there is truth in any 'religion,' when it does seem the cause of so much conflict on the smaller and global scales. You can understand why some people choose to abandon religion altogether, and would rather religion be kept from school curriculum etc. It's a sad state of affairs that people equate 'God' with violence, all over the world. Religious leader and politicians - I don't trust any of 'em. LOL I am kidding.
Some times it seems 'reilgious' practice itself is nothing more, or less, than a manifestation of pride, and that creates those little power trips that pull people apart rather than bring them together.
I see and believe completely that a trip to Mecca can be, is a form of great humility and true'worship' for a Muslim. Of course I do. If I had the money, I'd love to get all those truly faithful little souls - men and women all over the world to be able to worship God that way. Why I spoke of the humble little soul from the village, who can and never will be able to afford to go. But he/she has such purity of faith - that it would be a wonderful thing to be able to help them perform the pilgrimage.
I am curious and this may not be the thread for it. I mentioned somewhere else I think, the 'great commandments'.
�[Jesus], which is the great commandment in the law?� And he said to him, �You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.�
Forgetting what may or may not be 'corrupt' for now. I have not got a single clue what is corrupt or not, and it seems to me I'd have to spend a zillion life times in an ivory tower somewhere to even begin that process of discovery. I am not saying it is not a worthwhile cause. Of course it is. However, is there a similar message in Islam to these, 'great commandments' ?
If there is, I'd like to ask what it means to a Muslim. I'd like to know what it means to a Christian too for that matter :-)
Is this an example of the fruit of having sought to obey/obeyed such 'commandments' -
Prayer for Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day)
Lord, remember not only the men of good will, but also those of ill will. But do not remember all the suffering they have inflicted upon us. Remember rather the fruits we have brought, thanks to this suffering: our comradeship, our loyalty, our humility, the courage, the generosity, the greatness of heart that has grown out of this. And when they come to judgment, let all the fruits we have bourne be their forgiveness.
Found on a scrap of paper at the liberation of Ravensbruck Concentration Camp in Germany God bless :-) And you are right - we are all brothers, and sisters.
|
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 18 September 2008 at 7:32pm
|
I was busy at an other thread so cud not read this thread. I liked your honesty Gulliver. You are very frank. Am sure and i pray for it heartily, that as you in search of truth, let you be soon blessed with it.
Regarding you friend, insha Allah, i shall surely pray Allah swt to ease his conditions. But do convey him this reminder that Allah swt, tests whom He likes. These days, do bring us closer to Allah swt and there's a sort of sweetness in this pain too. These trials do also increase our grades and are rewarding both here and hereafter. Am sure he must be facing it with patience. Why not ! when he is also supported by his very good friend.
I also pray Allah swt to soon, light up your love for Prophet Muhammad. We do like your friend, though we have n't seen him or read him, because, yo u do discuss of him often. The more we read, the more shall we know of him Is n;t it? Likewise, do try to read life of Prophet, His companions -- Take your own time brother.
Apart from Brother {sign reader} link, here is an other one
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/index.htm - http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/index.htm
http://www.seerah.net/seerah/archives/cat_in_makkah.html - http://www.seerah.net/seerah/archives/cat_in_makkah.html
At the above site, you can click , at other links at the right side and know more of Prophet Muhammad {Peace be upon him}
And thanks for sharing the Quranic link with us.
------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 18 September 2008 at 8:52pm
|
Gulliver,
i appreciate your interest in learning more about people of faith. I too have ben interested in it as well. And the people who are truly in search of a deeper spirituality. I think that comes from talking to individual people. Less about the great mass of people.
I have never been to Mecca or Medina, inshallah, one day I will go. But there are a couple of good PBS shows on it. Cannot remember. And a good book by Michael Wolfe about Hajj.
And what struck me was the depth of feelings that people had on the Plains of Arafat. Where the people they followed had emotional expereinces. I think this can happen when you connect to God/Allah and the truth that we all shall die and return to our Creator.
There are many pilgrammages around the world. Oneof the most impressive to me is the people who journey across Tibet to Mt. Kalish, prostrating the whole way and around the mountain. ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 12:11am
Ar Raheeq Al-Mukhtum (The Sealed Nectar) is an excellent book about the Prophet Mohammed. ------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 12:17am
|
Why not look at it as one would look at visiting the Vatican. You can visit the Vatican, but there are many areas that are off-limits and no-one can enter such as the secret archives, etc... Not only is the public not allowed, it is one of the most heavily guarded areas in the world with it's own army. So, you can visit Saudi Arabia, you just can't visit the off-limit areas of Mecca and Medina.
------------- �No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.� Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 7:30am
|
Hello Shasta and Hafya
Thank you for the feedback. I think I have given the wrong impression here. I have the greatest respect for these sacred places, and what they mean to those of true faith - Islam. My friend is a Muslim and has been going through a hard time in his life. We came together for a reason - as all things have their reasons. He asked me at one point if I would ever consider visiting Mecca with him. If we got the money - of course and I'd make the effort to get it too. That he had always wanted to make the pilgrimmage, and he might find some healing and lasting peace for his soul there was my real intent for asking about going with him. I was honoured that he would suggest such a thing to me, realising how sacred the place is to Muslims. And as we both shared a belief in the same God, I could see no reason not to. I wanted to 'companion' my friend to a place of peace and healing for his soul, as I had known myself in my own life. I have nothing but the greatest respect for these places. I was a little disappointed, being human :-) - that I could not go with my friend on this trip - not yet. I can't make the 'declaration' as it would be a lie.
Jesus has been and is the model for my life. Till something better comes along - it will always be that way. To date, nothing has. So I am sorry if it seemed I was disrespectful in any way of these sacred places. That was not what it was/is about at all, or my intent for wishing to go, and God knows it.
Don't get me started on the Vatican. LOL ;-)
God bless us all.
|
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 7:15pm
|
Hi Gulliver,
Jesus is quite a fine model for us to follow. Having grown up Christian, I have had nothing but respect for Jesus.
I think it is the same with Muslims in their regard for Prophet Mohammed. For they grew up hearing stories and the examples that he gave.
I, cannot believe any human is God so thus the religious differences. I think it has been harder to "relate" to Prophet Mohammed just because his role too was uinque. They had the same messages but in different contexts and different emphasises.
I remember reading a book by Cornell West,(ithink it was him..lol) the theologian, whoI think is a teacher at Princeton. And he said something like Moses brought justice, Jesus brought love and Mohammed brought mercy to the world. It was quite fascinating to approach it like that.
Peace
Hayfa ------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |