Suicide
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: General Islamic Matter
Forum Description: Discuss Islamic matters/issues that not covered by other sub catagories
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13202
Printed Date: 22 November 2024 at 12:51am
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Topic: Suicide
Posted By: Gulliver
Subject: Suicide
Date Posted: 18 September 2008 at 1:02pm
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I was looking a thread where something like this might be covered.
I see there are some medical professionals here from various disciplines.
What is the view of Islam on suicide ? If some poor soul is driven to a sense of utter despair, and wants to end their pain deliberately, or not. Can they be said to be in their 'right minds' when they commit the act ?
I read a little of the story of Job. It seems that satan was there to tempt Job to 'cursing' God, as God's gifts were removed from the same Job.
If prayers are not 'valid' when a person is 'insane'. Can a person driven 'insane' with chronic pain, of whatever variety - be 'forgiven' for committing suicide ?
It's an awful tragedy indeed. It used to be in Catholicism, that if a person committed suicide - they are not allowed to be buried in 'hallowed' ground - the graveyard, blessed by the church. Like the little babies who died un baptised were not allowed to be buried in the 'blessed' graveyards either. It's changed now thank God. But how is it in other faith traditions. And does the thinking need to change, as newer understanding comes to light, with advances in pyschology and psychiatry ?
Any thoughts ?
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Replies:
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 1:04am
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Islam on Suicide - Well, its considered as a major sin. Here is a hadith. Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: �Whoever throws himself down from a mountain and kills himself will be in the Fire of Hell, throwing himself down therein for ever and ever. Whoever takes poison and kills himself, his poison will be in his hand and he will be sipping it in the Fire of Hell for ever and ever. Whoever kills himself with a piece of iron, that piece of iron will be in his hand and he will be stabbing himself in the stomach with it in the Fire of Hell, for ever and ever.� Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5442; Muslim, 109 A muslim does have faith in Hereafter. He does know that the Hereafter is FOREVER and there are no means to escape from it. If he commits suicide, he is then punished with the same act of suicide, he has commited with and hell is his destiny forever, This fear stops him from commiting suicide. At times of despair, he may look for all those verses and hadiths, which give lots of moral strength. Let him look at those around him., who are much more lesser than him, but are with smiles. Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) did not offer the funeral prayer for the one who commited suicide him himself so as to deter the people from doing something similar, but the Sahaabah offered the funeral prayer for him. So there's nothing wrong and infact Janazah prayers for the one who commited suicide are offered. They are buried in the same common graveyard. There's nothing that, they are buried elsewhere. Regarding insane - I can just give my opinion, since pens are laid down for him, so there's no such punishment, even if he commits suicide. Since its done unknowingly and unwillingly. Whereas these sane persons are fully aware of what they do na. By the way am not a medicinal professional. So looking forward for such members to comment. ------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 3:31am
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"So there's nothing wrong and infact Janazah prayers for the one who commited suicide are offered."
What's the point in offering prayers for those who are in hell forever and ever and ever ?
Though I have read that there is a possibility it would seem, in Islamic faith, or branches of it, that would suggest certain individuals in 'hell' can be released from there. They have a 'stamp' on them saying they are people of hell. Something like this.
The deliberate ending of life - 'murder' is wrong. Is 'suicide' self 'murder ? Or is it the desire to alleviate a chronic suffering. I see what you have said about seeking guidance and consolation in reading, and spiritual matters, and looking at how others less fortunate, or seemingly so manage to survive and indeed this would and should and could help a suffering soul like this. But it should give them hope - not drive them further into despair.
God is Compassion and Mercy, and knows what drove the person to their end. Perhaps something happened to them to set them down that road. Who is ultimately responsible before God then. To pray for those who have committed suicide would seem to indicate those prayers might profit them in some way.
The point of the graveyards etc. In the past in Catholicism - suicide was an act that estranged the soul from God forever - and the family of God - a 'mortal sin'. Man cut himself off from God forever in that act. So he/she was not buried with other members of the 'deceased' family in the common graveyard.
Where is God's compassion and mercy for those left behind - having to believe that the one they loved is burning in hell for all eternity.
It would seem to me, that the 'intent' in the person would be to end suffering - not life itself necessarily. It is claimed that God gives the strength to bear all that comes our way. Nothing is ever given that is too heavy to bear. Or that would be the implication. What is suicide all about then, really. Despair. It was too much to bear or suicide would not have been the outcome, surely.
It's like everything else in life. It's not all so black and white.
No, I am not suicidal in case anyone is wondering :-)
Though there have been times in life that I have wondered - and felt I would not get through. What got me through - and others not - I don't know - 'faith' in something greater for sure - but not the 'fear of hell' and burning forever. Sometimes life in this world can seem so 'hell'ish - that 'hell' would come as a mercy. I wonder what these souls truly suffer and it did make me wonder again about 'judging' the actions of any soul - even the 'suicide'. If Islam had achieved its end - then the soul would have known greater peace in themselves, being a member of that truly peaceful and caring society and might not have been driven 'over the edge'. As human beings we instinctively ask, "what drove them to that." Or some similar thing. God knows the answer to that question and perhaps 'judges' accordingly.
Maybe rather than the fear of burning in hell forever and ever. A despairing soul needs to know, and be shown the love and compassion of God, and God most often uses us as instruments of that very compassion and love. Thinking of so many burning in hell forever and ever and ever amen would drive many people to contemplate suicide - never mind anything else.
Thank you seekshidayath. :-)
It's interesting to explore these difficult topics.
God bless :-)
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Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 4:54am
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"Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: �Whoever throws himself down from a mountain and kills himself will be in the Fire of Hell, throwing himself down therein for ever and ever. Whoever takes poison and kills himself, his poison will be in his hand and he will be sipping it in the Fire of Hell for ever and ever. Whoever kills himself with a piece of iron, that piece of iron will be in his hand and he will be stabbing himself in the stomach with it in the Fire of Hell, for ever and ever.� Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 5442; Muslim, 109"
One of my first intros to Islam was referral to 'hadith'. I read a few, and some of them would make me very seriously wonder. It seems to me that Muhammad himself suffered from various afflictions - even becoming suicidally depressed at times. When he considers the society in which he lives - he feels compelled to withdraw from it to find God. I wonder if he did actually say what is claimed in this 'hadith'. Maybe he did. I don't know.
I just wonder about some of these hadith. If they are all as true as they are claimed to be, then Muhammad and Christ did did not share the same message at all.
Considering the other thread started yesterday, on 'disbelief'. There is no doubt in my mind, from my own personal experience too - that people are seemingly driven from God, because of their perceptions / mis conceptions of what God may or may not be - as given through/by by the sayings and actions of human beings, who claim to 'represent' God in one way or another - even parents too perhaps. It's an abuse of spiritual power and is a lot more common than most of us imagine or care to admit, I believe - in all 'religions' and 'faiths'. I am not talking here about Muhammad. I am talking about perception.
When a person is raised to believe that any man or woman might be God's 'representative' on earth - that they are nearer to God than everyone else, and that 'God' like creature acts or speaks in the most un Godlike ways. Then the individual who has been led to believe this can be made to feel utterly violated at core levels of their being, by 'God' - the One who supposedly created and loves him/her. It's a terrible thing, and a terrible 'sin' that any soul should be made feel that God has violated them in any way.
We all have a very grave responsibility when we speak on any matter on God's behalf - or claim to.
Yes, I have had some very bad experiences of 'religion' and those who professed to speak on God's behalf. Which is partly why, it seems, I was/am forced to 'seek' the God above and beyond all of if, if that God does indeed exsit, which I believe God does.
But something too, pulled me back to the 'religion' of younger years - knowing it was not all 'bad'. And the more I read for myself - the more I realised that my childish 'perceptions' were not all wrong, that I could trust that child like faith, and that indeed there was great good and beauty in so much of it.
I can see similar experiences having been had by so many people on so many levels - all spiritually abused in some way, and driven from 'belief' - or to a belief that the God of this or that 'religion' is a violator, abuser, tyrant etc etc.
When nothing could be further from the truth. And indeed it's that same loving and compassionate God who seeks such a seemingly 'lost' soul, and is, ulitmately, the real and only source of their true and lasting healing.
It's quite the journey, and some times I just wonder about those who don't SEEM to make it.
I've shared a little more here than I intended. However, if it stimulates some thought/contemplation, that might not be a bad thing.
God bless
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Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 21 September 2008 at 7:29pm
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"What's the point in offering prayers for those who are in hell forever and ever and ever ? "
Its a very good question Gulliver. It shows that you are very serious in your studies"
One who is a muslim, i.e believes in Allah swt, and Muhammad as His last messenger, is entitled to Jannah. Yet, we do go thru hell-fire, for the sins we commited. Just because we are muslims, we cannot escape the punishment of our sins.
Now, coming to the subject of discussion, if a person who is a muslim commits suicide, is his destination hell ? If so this would against the above. Here, we need to go thru little details of Arabic. Arabic, is such a language which is very deep. One root word, may give us many different meanings. The hadiths, which we read, do not give us complete understanding of the exact hadith in arabic, though they do serve the purpose of conveying the sayings of Prophet, for we non-arabic speakers.
Anyways, this word eternal in arabic gives different meanings. One is "forver' and the other is "for a long period". Here, we shall take the second meaning, as he a muslim who commited suicide, {he is entitled to heaven}, and secondly, he undergoes the punishment, which is going to be for a very long period.
Now, need of prayers for the one who commits suicide.
Here, we need to learn that, every one of us , intentionally or unintentionally commit sins. After the death of a muslim, prayers of his live relatives and well-wishers, help him in his grave, His punishment gets lessened, when we keep praying for him. We do pray for his forgiveness and mercy over him.
Am sorry, if i did not answer any other questions of yours, I did not read the other posts. Hope this may answer your question, highlighted here.
------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 22 September 2008 at 9:10pm
Various afflictions! such as?
Muhammad was not suicidally depressed. What led you to think that? (are you referring to his post-revelation state, for the very first time? If so, That just shows he was human, he did not 'intend' on committing suicide ever. No body can expect to see an angel, hear from God, and stop at the grocers on the way back . . . He was shaken a little, and unsure of himself. . . a natural and 'human' reaction. "Say (O Muhammad): I am only a human being like you, It is revealed to me that your God is One God..." (Surah Fussilat)
He was not what is a 'suicidally depressed' man . . . He led a content life and was at peace with his life. He would often be concerned about the fate of his future Muslim Ummah (Us) and weep for them in his prayers (subhanallah!) , but thats just about as 'depressed' as it gets. Nothing would 'depress' him except the good of his people. . . if you wanna use that word. . . though it really doesnt apply. . . since its a pyschological condition.
Muhammad and Christ essentially had the same mission/message, remind the people of thier relationship with God, and remind them about the Soveriegnity (sp?)and Oneness of God. And forewarn them of the Day of Judgement . . .
Thats true. . . which is why spiritual power, in Islam . . . is not vested in a person or cleric. Only the Prophets of the days yonder had them, but that is a thing of the past now. According to Islam, each muslim/human has the ability/capability to become 'spiritual' i.e. Closer to God.
Another reason, when despite believing in Him , people sometimes turn away from Him, or lose faith (temprarily) is because they think He is not listening or answering thier prayers - basically because things are not going the way we want them to. Most ppl experience that sometime or the other, but then, thats what faith is all about, are we only going to believe in Him, if things go well? The Quran had a lot of verses where God/Allah is talking about faith and belief. For example:
Surah Fussilat; Chapter 41
V49: "Man does not get tired of asking good; but if an evil touches him, then he gives up all hope and is lost in despair"
50: And truly, if We give him a taste of mercy from Us, after some adversity has touched him, he is sure to say: 'This is due to my merit'....
51: And when We show favour to man, he withdraws and turns away; but when evil touches him, then he has recourse to long supplications.
And as for the people whom, like you said abuse thier 'spiritual powers' or the trust ppl put in them, by telling lies on behalf of God/religion nauzubillah:
"Then, who does more wrong than one who utters a lie against Allah .." Ch 39 V.32
"And on the Day of Resurrection you will see those who lied against Allah - their faces will be black. Is there not in Hell an abode for the arrogant?" - Az-Zumar Chap 39, V60.
------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young." |
Gulliver wrote:Posted By: Gulliver
Date Posted: 22 September 2008 at 11:14pm
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Hi Chrysalis I am very rushed here as heading off somewhere for a while. I read on some places that Muhammad attempted to throw himself off a mountain, and the angel appeared to him to re assure him. How do you know he wasn't suicidally depressed ? You ever been suicidally depressed and realise how powerful a 'test' that can actually be ? To say Muhammad was not 'suicidally depressed' is to make a judgement on depressive illness that is not necessarily a good one. Oh it's beyond a 'good' person to feel that way. We both know or what crock of that is. Or maybe not. Then I suppose Job didn't have all those sores etc either. I don't know if he were suicidally depressed or not, Muhammad. Neither do you. If he were, it may have been a 'test' in itself. And what drove him to 'seek God' in the first place ? Wasn't he disillusioned with the society in which he lived ? And he retreats to a cave to contemplate it all. Hmmmmmm. I will get those 'sources' about Muhammad thinking to throw himself off the mountain, and you can see for yourself. I have no idea if they are true or not. It's strange too that later - there is a hadith that explicitly warns against the act of suicide - the act of throwing oneself down a mountain. As well as poisoning and some other form of suicide.
What would be 'wrong' with Muhammad having been suicidally depressed at any given time, IF he were ? That not a 'test' ? Too 'perfect' and 'holy' for that ? Back next week.
God bless.
Joan Rivers is out to get you btw. LOL ;-) She is real trouble - so be warned.
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Posted By: Chrysalis
Date Posted: 25 September 2008 at 12:01pm
How do you he was? Based on an incident, when for the first time ever he saw an angel, he found out he was a Prophet, and had the burden of humanity on his shoulders, - but natural he as a human would have a reaction to it. . . .you cannot expect a mortal to be nonchalant about such an event, and take everything in stride.
You have to look at his entire life, he led a content and peaceful life. He smiled, he joked, he laughed, he cried. . . he had his good times and the bad . . . he did not lead a suicidally depressed life.
I'm not saying good ppl cannot be depressed! Nor am I making a judgement on it. I'm simply stating a fact, that Muhammad wasnt a depressed man, thats all! He was psychologically fit. (again, not saying depressed ppl are bonkers, but they are psychologically unhealthy)
Dont get me wrong, I in no way said that bieng depressed makes u a bad a person, or that its beyond a 'good' person to feel that way.
Actually, unlike Buddha and all . . .Muhammad didnt 'retreat' to seek God. He already believed in God (Abrahamic Faith) , he would retreat to a cave to pray and contemplate. True, he was concerned about the state of the people at the time, how they were plagued with idolatory and social evils. . . etc. It wasnt 'depression' or disillusionment with life that led him to the cave though, it was a normal routine for him.
And I have read the incident u were talking about, but there isnt anymore to that than what Prophet Muhammad related.
*Even* if Muhammad were suicidally depressed , isnt that all the more better, that he condemned something he was about to do, but didnt? And he discouraged his followers from doing that, and asked them to face thier troubles, and protect thier lives? Thats a good thing he did, regardless.
I really honestly dont see how the two incidents clash or dont make sense. . . or how/why is it strange.
------------- "O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young." |
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 27 September 2008 at 3:58pm
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I agree I am not sure how they relate..
For IF Prophet Mohammed was scared, frightened, ovewhelemed.. that actually shows his human-ness.. But did he throw himslef off the mountain.. having a moment of "panic" is not the same as being clinically depressed or suicidal.
Many "sensitive" people I know get overwhelemed with the state of affairs of humanity. People worry as they see what is going on all around us..
Thereis nothing that says you cannot pray for someone who did commit suicide. For the only sin unforgivable is shirk-associating partners with Allah. So we pray for Allah's mercy for ourselves and others, because we just don't know. We are warned repeeatedly about many acts, and we are also told repeatedly about Allah's mercy. And that Allah is Al Ghaffaar- The Forgiver. None of us ca never say what we know what is in another's heart. He is Al-Adl-The Just and Al Kareem- The Generous one as well as Al Wadood- The Loving One.
------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi |