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60 Questions for the Christian

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Topic: 60 Questions for the Christian
Posted By: the_truth
Subject: 60 Questions for the Christian
Date Posted: 23 February 2009 at 1:21pm
60 Questions for the Christian



By Hussein Khalid Al-Hussein


According to most Christians, Jesus was God-incarnate, full man and full God. Can the finite and the infinite be one? "To be full" God means freedom from finite forms and from helplessness, and to be "full man" means the absence of divinity.

1.To be son is to be less than divine and to be divine is to be no one�s son. How could Jesus have the attributes of sonship and divinity altogether?

2.Christians assert that Jesus claimed to be God when they quote him in John 14:9: "He that has seen me has seen the Father". Didn�t Jesus clearly say that people have never seen God, as it says in John 5:37: "And the father himself which Has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have NEITHER HEARD HIS VOICE AT ANY TIME NOR SEEN HIS SHAPE"?

3.Christians say that Jesus was God because he was called Son of God, Son of Man, Messiah, and "savior". Ezekiel was addressed in the Bible as Son of Man. Jesus spoke of "the peace makers" as Sons of God. Any person who followed the Will and Plan of God was called SON OF GOD in the Jewish tradition and in their language (Genesis 6:2,4; Exodus 4:22; Psalm 2:7; Romans 8:14). "Messiah" which in Hebrew means "God�s anointed" and not "Christ", and "Cyrus" the person is called "Messiah" or "the anointed". As for "savior", in II KINGS 13:5, other individuals were given that title too without being gods. So where is the proof in these terms that Jesus was God when the word son is not exclusively used for him alone?
4.Christians claim that Jesus acknowledged that he and God were one in the sense of nature when he says in John 10:30 "I and my father are one". Later on in John 17:21-23, Jesus refers to his followers and himself and God as one in five places. So why did they give the previous "one" a different meaning from the other five "ones?

5.Is God three-in-one and one in three simultaneously or one at a time?

6.If God is one and three simultaneously, then none of the three could be the complete God. Granting that such was the case, then when Jesus was on earth, he wasn�t a complete God, nor was the "father in Heaven" a whole God. Doesn�t that contradict what Jesus always said about His God and our God in heaven, his Lord and our Lord ? Does that also mean that there was no complete god then, between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrection?

7.If God is one and three at a time, then who was the God in heaven when Jesus was on earth? Wouldn�t this contradict his many references to a God in Heaven that sent him?

8.If God is three and one at the same time, who was the God in Heaven within three days between the claimed crucifixion and the claimed resurrection?

9.Christians say that: "The Father(F) is God, the Son(S) is God, and the Holy Ghost(H) is God, but the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is not the Father". In simple arithmetic and terms therefore, if F = G, S = G, and H = G, then it follows that F = S = H, while the second part of the statement suggests that F � S � H (meaning, "not equal"). Isn�t that a contradiction to the Christian dogma of Trinity in itself ?

10.If Jesus was God, why did he tell the man who called him "good master" not to call him "good" because accordingly, there is none good but his God in Heaven alone?

11.Why do Christians say that God is three-in-one and one in three when Jesus says in Mark 12:29: "The Lord our God is one Lord" in as many places as yet in the Bible?

12.If belief in the Trinity was such a necessary condition for being a Christian, why didn�t Jesus teach and emphasize it to the Christians during his time? How were those followers of Jesus considered Christians without ever hearing the term Trinity? Had the Trinity been the spinal cord of Christianity, Jesus would have emphasized it on many occasions and would have taught and explained it in detail to the people.

13.Christians claim that Jesus was God as they quote in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". This is John speaking and not Jesus. Also, the Greek word for the first occurrence of God is HOTHEOS which means "the God" or "God" with a capital "G", while the Greek word for its second occurrence is "TONTHEOS", which means "a god " or "god" with a small "g". Isn�t this dishonesty and inconsistency on the part of those translating the Greek Bible? ? Isn�t such quotation in John 1:1 recognized by every Christian scholar of the Bible to have been written by a Jew named Philo Alexandria way before Jesus and John?

14.Wasn�t the word "god" or "TONTHEOS" also used to refer to others as well as in II Corinthians 4:4 "(and the Devil is) the god of this world" and in Exodus 7:1 "See , I have made thee (Moses ) a god to Pharaoh"?


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SALVATION:
Christians say that "GOD LOST His only son to save us". To whom did God lose Jesus if he owns the whole universe?

15. If it was agreeable with God�s Majesty to have sons, He could have created a million sons the like of Jesus. So what is the big clear deal about this only son?

16.Why does the Bible say that Jesus wanted to die on the cross, when the one on the cross was shouting "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" according to Matthew 27:45 and Mark 15:33?

17. If God had wanted to save us, couldn�t He have done that without sacrificing Jesus?

18. God is Just, and justice requires that nobody should be punished for the sins of others, nor should some people be saved by punishing other people. Doesn�t the claim that God sacrificed Jesus to save us because He was Just, contradict the definition of justice?

19. People sacrifice things they have to get something they don�t have when they can�t have both. Christians say that "God SACRIFICED His only son to save us". We know that God is Almighty; to whom did He sacrifice Jesus?
20. A real sacrifice is when you can�t get back what you have offered , so what would be the big deal about such a sacrifice if God could recover the same offering? (according to the Christians� terminology)?

21. If all the Christians are saved through Jesus and are going to Heaven no matter what they do, then the teachings of Jesus are irrelevant and the definition of good and bad are also rendered irrelevant. If this is not so, then do Christians who believe in Jesus yet do not follow his teachings nor repent go to Hell?

22. How can Christians take deeds as irrelevant after becoming one when Jesus says in Matthew 12:36; "But I say unto you that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment. For by the words thou shalt be justified, and by the words thou shalt be condemned"?

23. Christians say that people go to Heaven ONLY THROUGH JESUS, yet Paul says in 1 CORINTHIANS 7:8-16 that the unbelieving husband is acceptable to God because he is united with his wife and vice versa, and their pagan children are also acceptable to God. So people can go to heaven without believing in Jesus according to this.

24. How come the Bible says that ALL Israel is saved although they don�t believe in Jesus? Doesn�t that contradict the claim in the Bible that the only way to heaven is through Jesus?

25. According to Christians, those who have not been baptized will go to Hell. So even the infants and babies go to Hell if not baptized, since they are born with an inherited original sin. Doesn�t this contradict the definition of justice? Why would God punish people for sins they never committed?


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HOLY SPIRIT: The only place in the Bible where the Paraclete was called the Holy Spirit is in John 14:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you". What has the Holy Spirit brought or taught for the last 2000 years?

26.Christians say that the Paraclete means the Holy Spirit (John 14;26). Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "If I do not go away the Paraclete will not come to you". This could not mean the Holy spirit, since the Holy spirit was said to have been there before Jesus was even born as in Luke 1:41 "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit". Here, the Holy spirit was also present during Jesus life time. So how could this fit with the condition that Jesus must go away so that the Holy spirit will come?

27.In John 16:7-8, it says: "But if go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of sins and of righteousness and of Judgment". What do "he" and "him" refer here? Don�t they refer to a man?

28.Does the Holy Spirit talk to good Christians and bad Christians as well? Is the Holy spirit with them all the time or just at certain times? When does it start visiting a person who wants to become a Christian?

29.How can you as a Christian tell if the Holy Spirit is inside another Christian? How come many Christians fooled people by claiming that the Holy spirit was inside them only to be converted to another religion later on ?
30.Does the Holy Spirit dictate what Christians should do without choice or freedom at all or does it only guide them and they have the freedom to follow or not ?

31.If the Holy Spirit dictates what Christian should do, why do Christians commit sins and make mistakes ? How can you explain the conversion to other religions and atheism of many Christians? Are they told to do that by the Holy Spirit?

32.If the Holy Spirit guides Christians only, and they are free to do what they want, then how do we know that the writers of the Gospels didn�t make mistakes in writing them?

33.If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit comes and talks to them everyday, why don�t they ask the Holy Spirit about which version of the Bible to follow since there are too many versions floating around?



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MISSION OF JESUS:
Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is limited to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society decide which laws are right or wrong?

34.Why do the Christians say that Jesus came with a universal mission when he said that he was sent to the Jews only? He said to the Canaanite woman who asked him to heal her daughter from demon-possession: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel" and also said: "It is not right to take the children�s bread and toss it to their dogs", Matthew 15:21-28.

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RESSURECTION:
If you read Matthew (28:1-10), Mark (16:1-20), Luke (24:1-12), and John (20: 1-18), you will find contradicting stories. They all agreed that the tomb was guarded for three days. However, they reported the discovery of the empty tomb differently.
� Matthew (28) and John (20) reported that Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were the first to discover the tomb.
� Mark (16) reports that Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome were the first to discover the empty tomb.
� Mark (28) reports that there was an earthquake that removed the rock from over the tomb. He says that an angel caused it. The other gospels do not mention of an earthquake.
� Matthew and Mark say that only ONE man in white clothes was sitting on the tomb when the woman arrived, and that he was an angel.
� Luke says that TWO men in white clothes, who were angels, were sitting. Johns says that the two women did not meet anybody the first time they came to the tomb, but when they returned, they saw TWO people, ONE was an ANGEL, and the other was JESUS.
� Matthew reports that when the guards reported this to the chief priest, the chief priest paid them a large sum of money, telling them: "You have to say that his disciples came at night and stole his body." He claims that the soldiers took money and spread the story around and since then, the story had been circulating among the Jews until today (according to Matthew). The other gospels do not report of any such thing.

35. Which narration now is more authentic?

36.Why is the appearance of Jesus after the crucifixion taken as a proof of his resurrection when there is an explanation that he was not dead because someone else was crucified in his place when God saved Him?

37.How did Matthew know of the claimed agreement between the soldiers and the chief priest? Can�t someone say that someone paid the women a large sum of money and told them to spread the word around that Jesus rose from the dead, with the same authenticity as that of the story of Matthew?

38.Why did they believe that man in the white clothes? Why did they believe he was an angel? John�s narration is too strange, since he says that Mary did not recognize Jesus (one of the two) while talking to him, and she only recognized him when he called her by her name.

39.How does an empty tomb prove that Jesus was crucified ? Isn�t it that God is capable of removing another man from the tomb, and of resurrecting him too?

40.The Gospels are believed to be the verbatim words of God, they are supposed to be dictated by the Holy Spirit to the Disciples who wrote them. If the source were the same, why shouldn�t they correspond with each other in reporting such an important event?

41.How could Matthew, Mark, Luke and John be considered eyewitnesses of resurrection when the Bible implies that nobody at all saw Jesus coming out of the tomb?

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BIBLE:
If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God�s Word, why did they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment (example: the punishment for adultery)?
42.Why doesn�t Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God�s word, especially when it addresses an important feature like the Ascension?

43.Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73 books while the Protestant Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have the complete Word of God, which one should be believed and why?

44.Where do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when the original Bible is not even available ? The Greek manuscripts which are translations themselves are not even similar with each other.

45.How can you take two gospels from writers who never met Jesus, like Mark and Luke?

46.Why is half of the New Testament written by a man who never even met Jesus in his lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met Jesus while on his way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main enemy of Christianity. Isn�t that reason enough to question the authenticity of what he wrote? Why do the Christians call those books of the Old Testament "God�s Word" when the revisors of the RSV Bible say that some of the authors are UNKNOWN? They say that the author of SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of CHRONICLES is "UNKOWN, PROBABLY COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"!


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CONTRADICTIONS:
47.Concerning the controversial issues in the Bible, how can Christians decide by two-thirds majority what is God�s Word and what is not, as the prefaces of some Bibles say like that one of the RSV ?

48.Why does Luke in his gospel report the Ascension on Easter Day, and in the Acts, in which he is recognized as the author, FORTY days later?

49.The genealogy of Jesus is mentioned in Matthew and Luke only. Matthew listed 26 forefathers from Joseph to David while Luke enumerated 41 forefathers. Only Joseph matches with Joseph in those two lists. Not a single other name matches! If these were inspired by God word by word, how could they be different? Some claim that one is for Mary and one is for Joseph, but where does it says Mary in those two Gospels?

50.If Moses wrote the first books of the Old Testament, how could Moses write his own obituary? Moses died in the fifth book at age 120 as mentioned in Deut. 34:5-10.

51.In the King James Version, why does it report SEVEN years of famine in II SAMUEL 24:13 while it reports THREE years of famine in I CHRONICLES 21:12? Why did they change both to THREE years in the New International Version and other versions?

52.Still In the same King James Version, why does it say that Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign in II CHRONICLES 21:12, while it says EIGHTEEN years in II KINGS 24:8? Why did thessey change in both to EIGHTEEN in the new Versions?

53.In all versions, why does it say that David slew the men of SEVEN HUNDRED chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand HORSEMEN as evidenced in II Samuel 10:18 while its says SEVEN THOUSAND men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand FOOTMEN, in I CHRONICLES 19:18?

54.In all versions, why does it report TWO thousand baths in I KINGS 7:26 while II CHRONICLES 4:5 reports THREE THOUSAND?

55.In the King James version, why does it report that Solomon had FOUR THOUSAND stalls for horses in II CHRONICLES 9:25 while it accounts that Solomon had FORTY THOUSAND stalls of horses in 1 KINGS 4:26? Why did they change both to FOUR THOUSAND in the new versions?

56.In GENESIS 1, God�s creation progresses from grass to trees to fowls, whales, cattle and creeping things and finally to man and woman. GENESIS 2, however, puts the creation of man before cattle and fowl and woman subsequent to beast. How can this be explained?

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QUR�AN AND CHRISTIANS
This section does not inquire or interrogate, but rather provides the reader with some of the Qur�anic verses that address the Christians in particular, and the people of the scripture in general. A great portion of the Qur�an pertains to or involves the Christians and the Jews and I decided to just choose verses that are related to the topic of this manuscript.

� "Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then said unto him: Be, and he was." Al-Qur�an 3:59.
"Say: O People of the Scripture! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for Lords besides Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto him).
"O People of the Scripture! Why will you argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were revealed till after him? Have you then no sense?
Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
Lo! Those of mankind who have the best claim to Abraham are those who followed him, and his Prophet and those who believe (with him); and Allah is the Protector of the believers.
A party of the People of the Scripture longs to make you go astray; and they make none to go astray except themselves, but they perceive not.
O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve you in the revelations of Allah, when you (yourselves) bear witness to their truth?
O People of the Scriptures! Why confound you truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the Truth? (Al-Qur�an 3: 64-71)
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him and in the hereafter, He will be one of the losers (Al-Qur�an 3:85).
And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, and Allah�s messenger. They slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them, and Lo! Those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain:
But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. (Al-Qur�an 4:157-158).
O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter ought concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him, so believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three"! Cease! (it is ) better for you! Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as defender.
The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah, nor will the favored angels. Whosoever scorns His service and is proud, all such will assemble unto Him.
Then, as for those who believed and did good works, unto them will He give them their wages in full, adding unto them of His bounty; and as for those who were scornful and proud, then He will punish with a painful doom." (Al-Qur�an 4:171-173).
"And with those who say Lo! We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork.
O People of the Scripture! Now has our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Now has come unto light from Allah and plain scripture:
Whereby Allah guides him who seeks His good pleasure unto paths of peace, He brings them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guides them unto a Straight Path.
They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the messiah, son of Mary. Say: Who then can do aught against Allah if he had willed to destroy the Messiah son of Mary, and his mother and everyone on earth? Allah�s is the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them. He creates what he wills. And Allah is able to do all things. (Al-Qur�an 5:14:17).
"They surely disbelieve who say; Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O children if Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and you Lord. Lo! Whosoever ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evildoers ,there will be no helpers.
They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of the three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying, a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.
Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him? For Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.
Say: Serve you in place of Allah that which possesses for you neither hurt nor use? Allah is the Hearer, the Knower.
Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other than the Truth, and follow not the vain desire of folks who erred of old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road." (Al-Qur�an 5:72-77)
"And when Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary: Did you say unto mankind: take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?, he says: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then You Knew it, You know what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Your mind. Lo! You, only You, are the knower of things hidden.
I spoke unto them only that which You commanded me (saying); worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when You took me, You were the Watcher over them. You are witness over all things.
If You punish them, Lo! They are Your slaves, and if you forgive them (Lo! They are Your slaves). Lo! You, only you are the Mighty, the Wise.
Allah says: This is a day in which their truthfulness profits the truthful, for theirs are Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they are secure forever, Allah taking pleasure in them and they in Him. That is the great triumph. (Al-Qur�an 5:116-119)
"And the Jews say: �Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allah�, and the Christians say: �The Messiah is the son of Allah�. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah fights against them. How perverse they are!
They have taken as Lord besides Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partners (unto him)!
Faint would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdains (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse.
He it is Who has sent His messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to cause it to prevail over all religions, however much the idolaters may be averse.
O you who believe! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (people) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom.
On the Day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of Hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which you hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what you used to hoard." (Al-Qur�an 9:30-35).


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MUHAMMAD OR JESUS?
Christians claim that the prophecy in Deut. 18:18 refers to Jesus and not Muhammad. The verse says: "I will raise them up a prophet from among THEIR BRETHREN, LIKE UNTO THEE, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." The only reason they resort to such interpretation is that both Moses and Jesus were prophets. Even this one contradicts their claim that Jesus was God and not a Prophet. Many prophets of the Jews had the similarity with Moses. However, if we compare Muhammad to Moses, we will find that:
Muhammad was an Arab, and the Arabs are from Ishmael, son of Abraham, while Moses was a Jew, and the Jews are from Isaac, son of Abraham. Hence, the term THEIR BRETHREN refers to the children of the first son being brethren of the children of the other. This couldn�t apply to Jesus, since he was a Jew.
According to the Christians, Jesus went to Hell for three days while Moses did not. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses. (In Islam, none of the three Prophets went to Hell)
Moses and Muhammad were born to fathers and mothers while Jesus was born to a mother alone.
Moses and Muhammad got married and had children, while Jesus did not marry at all.
Moses and Muhammad got problems and difficulties from their people initially, but were accepted by them at the end., whereas Jesus was rejected by his people at the start and is still rejected by the Jews until today. "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not".( John 1:11)
Moses and Muhammad had power, besides being prophets. They both performed some capital punishments, for example, while Jesus had no power over his people. "My kingdom is not of this world", Jesus said in John 18:36 .
Moses and Muhammad brought new laws while Jesus did not.
Moses was forced to emigrate in adulthood to Median while Muhammad was forced to emigrate at that stage in his life too, towards Madina . Whereas Jesus did not have such forced emigration in his adulthood .
Moses and Muhammad both died of natural deaths after which they were buried ,while the same could not be said of Jesus. He was neither killed nor crucified at all, according to the Qur�an and did not die a �natural� death as could be affirmed by Christians who believe in Crucifixion.

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FINAL QUESTIONS:
57.Why won�t you, Christian reader, come to hear and learn of the true religion of Jesus?

58.Have you, as a Christian , learned of Islam and if so, was it from the true Muslims?

59.As a Christian, do you agree that out of fairness and honesty you must investigate what Islam says about God, Jesus, including this life and the hereafter?

60.Being a Christian, do you also believe that we must all stand accountable to our Creator and that the Creator is Perfect and Just? As a sincere believer in God, don�t you owe it upon yourself to find out the entire unadulterated truth regardless of the consequences?


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Peace to whoever follows the Guidance



Replies:
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 25 February 2009 at 6:40pm
As Salamu Alaikum the truth.If I havent welcomed you to the forum,Please allow me to do so.Welcome!Jazakallah Kheiran for the topic and post.I can say from my own experience here that some not all of the Chirstian members come here to debate after they have read the Holy Qur'an.I am waiting to see who wants to attempt to answer your questions.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 6:18am
Many of these questions have been and are being argues/discussed in other threads in the forum.  I can give answers then leave it at that and we can argue the points on the other threads.
 
If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God�s Word, why did they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment (example: the punishment for adultery)?  Read Luke 6:37-42, 
 
42.Why doesn�t Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God�s word, especially when it addresses an important feature like the Ascension? The Bible is based on truth and it doesn't appear in some of the oldest existing witnesses.  Why not include it with a note that it is under question.  Why destroy it /burn it and lose the verses forever.

43.Why does the Catholic Bible contain 73 books while the Protestant Bible has only 66? With both claiming to have the complete Word of God, which one should be believed and why?  As a protestant I follow the 66, which the Catholics include in their 72.  I can read them if I wish none have been burned or destroyed, I just don't believe they are the Word of GOD.  The proof for the 66 is stronger then the whole 72

44.Where do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when the original Bible is not even available ? The Greek manuscripts which are translations themselves are not even similar with each other.  As linguists are learning and understanding the language used in Jesus' time and earlier a better understanding is coming about.  Many words change meaning over time- even in the Quran there is question as to the true meaning of words. 
45.How can you take two gospels from writers who never met Jesus, like Mark and Luke?

The scribes Luke and Mark were directly inspired by GOD.  No middle men or angels.  Just because they were not named as diciples it doesn't mean they didn't follow Jesus.

46.Why is half of the New Testament written by a man who never even met Jesus in his lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met Jesus while on his way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main enemy of Christianity. Isn�t that reason enough to question the authenticity of what he wrote? Why do the Christians call those books of the Old Testament "God�s Word" when the revisors of the RSV Bible say that some of the authors are UNKNOWN? They say that the author of SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of CHRONICLES is "UNKOWN, PROBABLY COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"!

Silly arguement- we don't know who wrote down the Quran which is a much later document. 

There were witnesses present when Jesus appeared, met Paul.  There is also the outside witness Ananias proof, please read:

Acts 9

Saul's Conversion

 1Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest 2and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"

 5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.

   "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do."

 7The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

 10In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"
      "Yes, Lord," he answered.

 11The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."

 13"Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name."

 15But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

 17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord�Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here�has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.




-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 6:37am
MISSION OF JESUS:
Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is limited to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society decide which laws are right or wrong?
 
You must actually read the read the Gospel to learn all the moral lessons taught by Jesus, they are through out.   
 
Matthew 22

37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

34.Why do the Christians say that Jesus came with a universal mission when he said that he was sent to the Jews only? He said to the Canaanite woman who asked him to heal her daughter from demon-possession: "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel" and also said: "It is not right to take the children�s bread and toss it to their dogs", Matthew 15:21-28.
 
Read futher:
 
28Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour. 

Matthew 28

 16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 6:47am
FINAL QUESTIONS:
57.Why won�t you, Christian reader, come to hear and learn of the true religion of Jesus?
 


58.Have you, as a Christian , learned of Islam and if so, was it from the true Muslims?
 
I have learned studied Islam for 5 years by reading the Quran and some of hadith.  I have also learned alot from people on the forums I have gone to.

59.As a Christian, do you agree that out of fairness and honesty you must investigate what Islam says about God, Jesus, including this life and the hereafter?

Yes, I have studied many different religions

60.Being a Christian, do you also believe that we must all stand accountable to our Creator and that the Creator is Perfect and Just? As a sincere believer in God, don�t you owe it upon yourself to find out the entire unadulterated truth regardless of the consequences?

Yes and I have Jesus to stand with me on Judgement Day, as He has cleaned my slate of all debts owed.  I have found the truth.

I'll stop here and let you get all this info read and will return later to finish your question.  If I forget please send me a private message!


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 26 February 2009 at 9:50pm
Salam Believer
If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God�s Word, why did they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment (example: the punishment for adultery)?  Read Luke 6:37-42
In Luke 37-42, Jesus does not say that all parts of punishment have been cancelled. It only says that a criminal shouldn't blame another criminal since the former has committed a crime himself. v42 says
42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?
The only way a person can punish/correct another person is by shunning his crimes and becoming pious. THEN he will be able to correct his brother. As the verse continues:You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
 
It doesn't mean that a human being cannot punish others. It means that a criminal cannot punish others for the same crime he has committed. Only once he shuns his crimes (removes the plank from his eyes) he can rebuke others. Furthermore if we agree that laws of Moses should not be applied by Christians, then Jesus has effectively made most of Moses' laws obsolete which contradicts with what Jesus said here (Mathew 5:17-19)
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
42.Why doesn�t Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God�s word, especially when it addresses an important feature like the Ascension? The Bible is based on truth and it doesn't appear in some of the oldest existing witnesses.  Why not include it with a note that it is under question.  Why destroy it /burn it and lose the verses forever.
So are you saying that the concept of ascension is under question? And that there are contradictions regarding which part of the Bible is/isn't the word of God?
44.Where do those new translations of the Bible keep coming from when the original Bible is not even available ? The Greek manuscripts which are translations themselves are not even similar with each other.  As linguists are learning and understanding the language used in Jesus' time and earlier a better understanding is coming about.  Many words change meaning over time- even in the Quran there is question as to the true meaning of words.
In Quran, the fundamentals are same. For example, in Surah Ikhlas the first verse is:Say He is Allah, the one and only. The word Ahad has been translated as:One, One and only, One(without a second) etc. Such differences exist in the translations of Quran and they are very trivial. However in the Bible, translations differ a lot. For example, one of the most quoted verse by Christians (it also happens to be your signature) has different translations
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (NI)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(KJV)
Surely there is a difference between "one and only" and "begotten". I'll reply to the rest later
Peace


Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 27 February 2009 at 12:32am
45.How can you take two gospels from writers who never met Jesus, like Mark and Luke?

The scribes Luke and Mark were directly inspired by GOD.  No middle men or angels.  Just because they were not named as diciples it doesn't mean they didn't follow Jesus.

How do you know that they were directly inspired by God? Is it because they said so? So if anyone claims that he is being directly inspired by God you are suppose to believe him? Or did Jesus mentioned that Luke and Mark will be inspired by God?
46.Why is half of the New Testament written by a man who never even met Jesus in his lifetime? PAUL claimed with no proof that he had met Jesus while on his way from Jerusalem to Damascus. PAUL was the main enemy of Christianity. Isn�t that reason enough to question the authenticity of what he wrote? Why do the Christians call those books of the Old Testament "God�s Word" when the revisors of the RSV Bible say that some of the authors are UNKNOWN? They say that the author of SAMUEL is "UNKNOWN" and that of CHRONICLES is "UNKOWN, PROBABLY COLLECTED AND EDITED BY EZRA"!

Silly arguement- we don't know who wrote down the Quran which is a much later document.

Completely incorrect. We do know who wrote down the Quran. It was revealed to prophet Muhammad from God and his companions wrote it down. Quran was revealed in stages and after the death of prophet Muhammad, the Revelation was available both orally and written down on various materials. Its internal order was known to the Muslims and strictly observed by them. But in the battle of Yamama, faught by the first Caliph Abu Bakr and a false prophet Musailima, some of the Qurra (people who had memorized the whole Quran) were killed. So Abu Bakr was advised by Umar (who later became the 2nd Caliph) that Quran should be collected in one piece. They assigned Zaid Bin Thabit for the task. The whole story is narrated in In Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 201 by Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari:
Abu Bakr sent for me after the (heavy) casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra' were killed). 'Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said, 'Umar has come to me and said, The people have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be more casualties among the Qurra' (those who know the Qur'an by heart) at other battle-fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur'an." Abu Bakr added, "I said to 'Umar, 'How can I do something which Allah's Apostle has not done?' 'Umar said (to me), 'By Allah, it is (really) a good thing.' So 'Umar kept on pressing, trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as 'Umar." (Zaid bin Thabit added:) Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. me). "You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness): and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur'an and collect it (in one manuscript). " By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an. I said to both of them, "How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?" Abu Bakr said, "By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and Umar. So I started locating Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, leaf-stalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart).
The Hadith further continues and in the end it is narrated
The manuscript on which the Quran was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with 'Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, Umar's daughter.
The story continues but I think I made my point.


Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 27 February 2009 at 1:39am
As for the conversion of Paul and his vision, who exactly wrote the book of Acts? Who narrated this story?
MISSION OF JESUS:
Without borrowing from other religions and systems, can Christianity provide people with a complete way of life? Since Christianity is limited to spiritual life and does not provide law, how can a society decide which laws are right or wrong?
 
You must actually read the read the Gospel to learn all the moral lessons taught by Jesus, they are through out.   
 
Matthew 22

37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

I think (though I may be wrong) that "the truth" is refering to the laws made by society or a country. What should be the punishment of a thief, murderer etc? Is interest allowed or not? Christianity is silent here. Hence it is limited to only the spiritual aspect of life.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 28 May 2009 at 5:23pm
beleiver,
I am wondering what you are trying to say when you posted Acts 9?
Please elaborate rather than just posting a quote, what are you proving with those verses?
Hasan
 


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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62



Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 30 May 2009 at 3:29pm
Should this be in another thread.. like inter-religious?  This should be about Islam not about the differences in 2 religions. 

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 01 June 2009 at 2:35pm

  http://muslim-responses.com/The_Questions/The_Questions_ - 118 Questions

 By brother Sami Zaatari


Posted By: truthnowcome
Date Posted: 02 June 2009 at 11:16pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

beleiver,
I am wondering what you are trying to say when you posted Acts 9?
Please elaborate rather than just posting a quote, what are you proving with those verses?
Hasan
 
salaam!

Believer forgot! Paul saw a light and herd a voice! Who voice? I guess he think is Jesus (S) because the voice says so. �And he (Paul) said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=9 - - Matthew24 :5  

 

Nothing new, believers too do hear voices also...yes he does! How we know? The Ghost does speak to him: "he shall teach you things to come" John16

tnc



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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 06 June 2009 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by truthnowcome truthnowcome wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

beleiver,
I am wondering what you are trying to say when you posted Acts 9?
Please elaborate rather than just posting a quote, what are you proving with those verses?
Hasan
 
salaam!

Believer forgot! Paul saw a light and herd a voice! Who voice? I guess he think is Jesus (S) because the voice says so. �And he (Paul) said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=9 - - Matthew24 :5  

 

Nothing new, believers too do hear voices also...yes he does! How we know? The Ghost does speak to him: "he shall teach you things to come" John16

tnc



  http://muslim-responses.com/Did_he_really_meet_Jesus/Did_he_really_meet_Jesus_ - Did he really meet Jesus

 By brother Sami Zaatari

 Enjoy!
 


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 7:37am
beleiver,
I am wondering what you are trying to say when you posted Acts 9?
Please elaborate rather than just posting a quote, what are you proving with those verses?
Hasan
 
As I said it shows that Paul had indeed received information directly from Jesus with witnesses to the actual event then an outside witness to Ananias.
 
Not so with the case of Mohammad who has no witnesses that He actually spoke with Gabriel.
 
In the case of the Holy Bible when GOD or angles spoke to people there were witnesses.  Mary- Joseph had a dream; Moses and the burning bush- the staff and miracles to perform for his people.


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 8:02am
Salam Believer
If the Christians consider the Old Testament as God�s Word, why did they cancel the parts of the Old Testament that dealt with punishment (example: the punishment for adultery)? 
 
You are reading into this that it is the same sin- it is any sin.
 
I understand that Muslims like Catholics rate sin as to a major and minor.  All of us are sinners and big or small sins all sadden GOD.
 
In other words none of us have the ability to truly correct/punish the sinnner.  This is up to GOD.  Yet this does not mean that there shouldn't be some kind of punishment or consequence- there would be chaos without jails- robbers and murders running rampant.
 
Consequence of adultry with us not having to raise one stone- the persons guilt, destroying a marriage, divorce, children distanced from the adulterer, unwanted pregnancy, shunning, etc.
 
There is always the hope in Christianity that the criminal will change their ways- repent and be saved through Jesus.  If stoned to death this can not happen.  
 
 
42.Why doesn�t Mark 16:9-20 exist in as many versions of the Bible while it exists as a footnote or between brackets in some other versions? Is a footnote in the Bible still considered as God�s word, especially when it addresses an important feature like the Ascension? The Bible is based on truth and it doesn't appear in some of the oldest existing witnesses.  Why not include it with a note that it is under question.  Why destroy it /burn it and lose the verses forever.
So are you saying that the concept of ascension is under question? And that there are contradictions regarding which part of the Bible is/isn't the word of God?
 
No, read Matthew 28
 
 
Is Allah capable of being one and only one yet reach/reveal himself to man in different ways?


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 8:17am

'How do you know that they were directly inspired by God? Is it because they said so? So if anyone claims that he is being directly inspired by God you are suppose to believe him? Or did Jesus mentioned that Luke and Mark will be inspired by God?'
 
Poor argument you have no proof that Gabriel spoke to Mohammad or even that is was Gabriel.  When Gabriel spoke to people in the Holy Bible if he frightened them he always comforted them.  Also GOD made sure there were witnesses in either miracles Moses and the burning bush and the staff and other sigsn to show hies people.
 
Mark was a student of Peter
 
'Completely incorrect. We do know who wrote down the Quran. It was revealed to prophet Muhammad from God and his companions wrote it down.'
 
Which companions, what were their names did they see Gabriel?  Why did Aisha say there were originally more verses in a chapter?  Where are the original bones and leaves? Why did Uthman burn various copies?  We know that companions wrote down their own copies/ each had their own collection of verses.
 
You really must do a more indepth textual analysis of the Quran- but I have been told you can't, it is very much frowned upon. 
 
Funny because as Christians we are told to question everything!!  GOD know the Holy Bible can stand the test!
 

Proverbs 14

 15 A simple man believes anything,

       but a prudent man gives thought to his steps

 

John 14

11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

 

1 Thessalonians 5

21Test everything. Hold on to the good.

 

Acts 17

11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. 

 

Never stop learning-

 

2 Timothy 2

15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 



-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 07 June 2009 at 8:23am
member_profile.asp?PF=60570&FID=10 - Mansoor_ali - you and the paper you reference forgot to mention the outside witness to the event:

Acts 9

10In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"
      "Yes, Lord," he answered.

 11The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."

 13"Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name."

 15But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

 17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord�Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here�has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

A contradiction would be that the event didn't happen, or someting completely different ocurred.  It is not a contradiction that a fuller understanding of what happened is evealed.

-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 09 June 2009 at 8:59pm
  believer.
 
   what are the names of the two witneses who were with paul? please tell us.
   if i were there and heard such a thing i'd follow paul every where and testify to the fact. they must not have been impressed.
    also this guy named Ananias. where is he ? you would think this man would follow paul to the ends of the earth after such a revelation{ such as simon magnus with phillip }. but yet when barnabas found paul both the so called witneses to paul vision and Ananias are nowhere to be found. unless this is the Ananias peter struck down.
      paul tells of how the high priest " told him what he must do in damascus". " opened his eyes " so to speak. at the time of paul there was a high priest named Ananias, { he had james stoned } so one could say this high priest placed his hands upon paul and he "saw" what he must do. a blessing so to speak. 
    paul went into arabia {where he was unknown} for some time and learned to be a "christain" .sitting in the croud he lisened to the gospel taught by Thomas, Matthis and others he learned to walk the walk and talk the talk.
     but doing this { act against jewdisum} without the blessing of the high priest would have condemed him. this is why paul says "for me everything is permisable but not benifical".
      paul gives himself away in many ways if you step back with an open mind to except the fact he may be a false prophet.
      i feel i should pray and meditate on this more and post a new topic on his exposure.
      remember what paul says in ROMANS 1: 18-19.
remember god is going to allow the world to be led astray in jesus' name.
also please note that paul NEVER REPENTS for his past actions {crimes} . unrepentent even for his part in the murder of stephen .
 love
leland


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 10 June 2009 at 10:49am

 
member_profile.asp?PF=60570&FID=10 - Mansoor_ali - you and the paper you reference forgot to mention the outside witness to the event:

Acts 9

10In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!"
      "Yes, Lord," he answered.

 11The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."

 13"Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name."

 15But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

 17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord�Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here�has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

A contradiction would be that the event didn't happen, or someting completely different ocurred.  It is not a contradiction that a fuller understanding of what happened is evealed.

 Let us first analyze who is author of Book of Acts?

 Taken from http://www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm - Work of brother Osama Abdullah

 

The Book of Acts:

"Although the author does not name himself, evidence outside the Scriptures and inferences from the book itself lead to the conclusion that the author was Luke.  (From the NIV Bible Commentary [1], page 1643)"

So based on some conclusion, you're willing to die for defending the idea that the Book of Acts was the True Word of GOD Almighty? If the book was inspired by GOD Almighty, then how come it wasn't mentioned in the book itself to help us filter it out from the many other "Satanic false books"? Are we sure that this book too is not a man-made Satanic book?

After all, its just a conclusion, isn't it?

 My Comment:So how can you convince me that book of Acts is word of God?How can you convince me who is author of that book?Whether he was inspired or not?

 Paul never even met Jesus Christ in person while the latter was on earth.  It is falsely claimed that Jesus appeared to Paul while Paul was on his way to Damascus after the "crucifixion" ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=9&version=9&context=chapter - Acts 9:2-4 .  Note: Paul's name used to be Saul.  Yet, Paul admittedly http://www.answering-christianity.com/pauls_delusions.htm - wasn't even sure whether the Holy Spirit was inspirning him or not ).




 


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 11 June 2009 at 4:19pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_of_Damascus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_of_Damascus

 

These are 2 different men.  Just as there were 2 Marys living at the time of Jesus there was more then one Ananias.   One Ananias was known as a Disciple of Jesus and the other an anti-christian Jewish High Priest.

 

We know that Paul was not considered a false prophet because he was a part of the Decree of the Council of Jerusalem that occurred around 50 AD.

 

Nazarene you are mistaken.  Paul was not converted in arabia but on the road to Damascus.

 

what are the names of the two witneses who were with paul? please tell us.

 

Poor arguments really for Mohammad had no one witnessing his revealations- just his word that it happened.

 

In Paul's case the witnesses were more then likely anti-christian or they would not have been traveling with Paul to attack the churches.  We have the separate witness of the Disciple of Jesus- Ananias.



-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 12 June 2009 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_of_Damascus -  

These are 2 different men.  Just as there were 2 Marys living at the time of Jesus there was more then one Ananias.   One Ananias was known as a Disciple of Jesus and the other an anti-christian Jewish High Priest.

 

We know that Paul was not considered a false prophet because he was a part of the Decree of the Council of Jerusalem that occurred around 50 AD.



 Paul was a corrupter of message of Jesus Christ.


  Jeremy Bentham (English Philosopher)

"If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they needed look no farther than Paul." (Paraphrased. Looking for a copy of "Not Paul, but Jesus" in order to retrieve the exact quote.)


 Visit:


 Islamic Answers presents a 516-page refutation of the false apostle Paul:

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus__words_only - http://islamic-answers.com/jesus__words_only

Some extra refutations as bonuses are included:

1: Pauline corruption of Biblical Analysis

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf - http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf

2: Jude's Epistle - More Evidence of rift between Jerusalem  and Paul

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf - http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_
http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf - Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf

3: Was Paul or James' Church the more successful evangelists ?

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf - http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf

4: Jesus or Paul ? - Lecture by a former Christian Priest

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_ - http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_

For more info check:

http://islamic-answers.com/christianity - http://islamic-answers.com/christianity

 

Nazarene you are mistaken.  Paul was not converted in arabia but on the road to Damascus.

 

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

what are the names of the two witneses who were with paul? please tell us.

 

Poor arguments really for Mohammad had no one witnessing his revealations- just his word that it happened.

 

In Paul's case the witnesses were more then likely anti-christian or they would not have been traveling with Paul to attack the churches.  We have the separate witness of the Disciple of Jesus- Ananias.



 Visit:

 Brother Osama Abdullah response to http://answering-christianity.com/muhammad_fruits.htm - Muhammad didnot have witnesses to prove that he was truthful


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 19 June 2009 at 7:46am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali Mansoor_ali wrote:


Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

" lang="EN"><o:p>We know that Paul was not considered a false prophet because he was a part of the Decree of the Council of Jerusalem that occurred around 50 AD.</o:p></span>
Paul is not concidered a Prophet at all in Islam.                                                 

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">

<p style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;">�Paul was a corrupter of message of Jesus.True
                                                                                                                      
"If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they needed look no farther than Paul."
As Salamu Alaikum Mansoor Ali,Lol!


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_of_Damascus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_of_Damascus

 

These are 2 different men.  Just as there were 2 Marys living at the time of Jesus there was more then one Ananias.   One Ananias was known as a Disciple of Jesus and the other an anti-christian Jewish High Priest.

 

We know that Paul was not considered a false prophet because he was a part of the Decree of the Council of Jerusalem that occurred around 50 AD.

 

Nazarene you are mistaken.  Paul was not converted in arabia but on the road to Damascus.

 

what are the names of the two witneses who were with paul? please tell us.

 

Poor arguments really for Mohammad had no one witnessing his revealations- just his word that it happened.

 

In Paul's case the witnesses were more then likely anti-christian or they would not have been traveling with Paul to attack the churches.  We have the separate witness of the Disciple of Jesus- Ananias.

 
 
My friend you are the one who has poor argument.
The proof is in the pudding!
to know if its a true revelation from God or not, there is a simple test you need to do instead of childish arguments.
God is all knowing, right? and does not contradict, also God knows all.
Now, if we find something inconsistant in a book that is claimed to be from God there are two possibilites: either the claim is false or someone has played with it.
 
I have said it before, but seems like some of us have short memory:
What Christians claim as major teachings of their belief, in my observation, tend to contradict to their own source, the Bible.
 
Now, what we as a Muslim claim to be the major teachings of our belief in my obervation and study are 100% consistant to our source, the Quran.
Both claim, yet only one proves it ! So simple,
Hasan


-------------
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62



Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali Mansoor_ali wrote:

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_of_Damascus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananias_of_Damascus

 

These are 2 different men.  Just as there were 2 Marys living at the time of Jesus there was more then one Ananias.   One Ananias was known as a Disciple of Jesus and the other an anti-christian Jewish High Priest.

 

We know that Paul was not considered a false prophet because he was a part of the Decree of the Council of Jerusalem that occurred around 50 AD.



 Paul was a corrupter of message of Jesus Christ.


  Jeremy Bentham (English Philosopher)

"If Christianity needed an Anti-Christ, they needed look no farther than Paul." (Paraphrased. Looking for a copy of "Not Paul, but Jesus" in order to retrieve the exact quote.)


 Visit:


 Islamic Answers presents a 516-page refutation of the false apostle Paul:

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus__words_only - http://islamic-answers.com/jesus__words_only

Some extra refutations as bonuses are included:

1: Pauline corruption of Biblical Analysis

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf - http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Pauline_Corruption_of_Biblical_Analysis.pdf

2: Jude's Epistle - More Evidence of rift between Jerusalem  and Paul

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf - http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_
http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Jude_s_Epistle__More_Evidence_of_Rift_Between_Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf - Jerusalem_and_Paul__.pdf

3: Was Paul or James' Church the more successful evangelists ?

http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf - http://l.b5z.net/i/u/6053592/i/Was_Paul_or_James__Church_the_more_succesfull_Evangelist.pdf

4: Jesus or Paul ? - Lecture by a former Christian Priest

http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_ - http://islamic-answers.com/jesus_or_paul_____audio_lecture_

For more info check:

http://islamic-answers.com/christianity - http://islamic-answers.com/christianity

 

Nazarene you are mistaken.  Paul was not converted in arabia but on the road to Damascus.

 

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

what are the names of the two witneses who were with paul? please tell us.

 

Poor arguments really for Mohammad had no one witnessing his revealations- just his word that it happened.

 

In Paul's case the witnesses were more then likely anti-christian or they would not have been traveling with Paul to attack the churches.  We have the separate witness of the Disciple of Jesus- Ananias.



 Visit:

 Brother Osama Abdullah response to http://answering-christianity.com/muhammad_fruits.htm - Muhammad didnot have witnesses to prove that he was truthful
 

Son 7:1 You are a princess, and your feet are graceful in their sandals. Your thighs are works of art, each one a jewel;

 This is far from from womans privates if it only thing found in muslims perverted minds and keep on promoting this site on  if it is a victory over the jews and the christians of the bible but they only put a curse on themselfs.   

Son 7:2 your navel is a wine glass filled to overflowing. Your body is full and slender like a bundle of wheat bound together by lilies.

Son 7:3 Your breasts are like twins of a deer.

Son 7:4 Your neck is like ivory, and your eyes sparkle like the pools of Heshbon by the gate of Bath-Rabbim. Your nose is beautiful like Mount Lebanon above the city of Damascus.

Son 7:5 Your head is held high like Mount Carmel; your hair is so lovely it holds a king prisoner.

Son 7:6 You are beautiful, so very desirable!

Son 7:7 You are tall and slender like a palm tree, and your breasts are full.

Son 7:8 I will climb that tree and cling to its branches. I will discover that your breasts are clusters of grapes, and that your breath is the aroma of apples.

Son 7:9 Kissing you is more delicious than drinking the finest wine. How wonderful and tasty!

Son 7:10 My darling, I am yours, and you desire me.

Son 7:11 Let's stroll through the fields and sleep in the villages.

Son 7:12 At dawn let's slip out and see if grapevines and fruit trees are covered with blossoms. When we are there, I will give you my love.

Son 7:13 Perfume from the magic flower fills the air, my darling. Right at our doorstep I have stored up for you all kinds of tasty fruits.

 


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 04 July 2009 at 6:42am
Whats your point,that you read and dont understand look at yourself bro.You post in bold big letters and still find away to not make sence.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 04 July 2009 at 7:05am
I told you already you can try all you want Jouberar,Islam is the fastest growing religion the first religion and the largest religion. Even Jesus(AS) is a Muslim.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 04 July 2009 at 10:32am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Whats your point,that you read and dont understand look at yourself bro.You post in bold big letters and still find away to not make sence.
 
What is a navel it is not a womans privates it is a belly button.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 04 July 2009 at 11:02am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Whats your point,that you read and dont understand look at yourself bro.You post in bold big letters and still find away to not make sence.
 
Does it make sense to to you when the quran stated the sun sets in a murky pool of water you only believe cos it stand so in th Quran.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 04 July 2009 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

I told you already you can try all you want Jouberar,Islam is the fastest growing religion the first religion and the largest religion. Even Jesus(AS) is a Muslim.
 
Galatians 1:6-9 Apostle Paul says "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Christ for a different religion. But even if an angel from heaven, should preach to you a different religion, let him be accursed." My question is: Do you think it possible that this is a genuine text from God and he foresaw that both Muhammad and Joseph Smith would be taught a new false religion by an angel?
 
My other question is who was the first one to start spreading islam?
 
 


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 04 July 2009 at 2:58pm

To the truth.

The comparison between Moses and Jesus
Moses Jesus
Pharaoh orders Jewish male babies killed, fearful that the Hebrew slaves will revolt and throw off his authority.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Exodus%201.8-16 - Exodus 1:8-16 )
Herod orders Jewish male babies killed, fearful that the Messiah will eventually lead a revolt that will threaten his authority.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Matthew%202.1-16 - Matthew 2:1-16 )
Pharoah is powerless to take the life of God's chosen, Moses, who will eventually free his people from Egyptian bondage.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Exodus%201.17 - Exodus 1:17 )
Herod is powerless to take the life of God's chosen, Jesus, who will eventually free His people from the bondage of sin.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Matthew%202.19-21 - Matthew 2:19-21 )
Moses, the son of oppressed people, grows up as royalty in Egypt.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Exodus%202.1-10 - Exodus 2:1-10 )
Jesus, the King of Kings, grows up as the son of oppressed people, spending part of His youth in Egypt.
(Matthew, Luke)
Moses works as a shepherd before leading the Israelites out of Egypt.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Exodus%203.1 - Exodus 3:1 )
Jesus describes Himself as "the good shepherd."
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/John%2010.11 - John 10:11 , http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/John%2010.14 - 14 )
Moses is called upon to challenge the authority of Pharaoh, who refuses to recognize the power of God despite many miracles.
(Exodus 5-11)
Jesus is called upon to challenge the religious authorities of His day, most of whom refuse to recognize the power of God despite many miracles.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/John%2010.32 - John 10:32 )
God spares the firstborn sons of Israel because of the blood of the lamb painted on their doorposts and lintels.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Exodus%2012.12-13 - Exodus 12:12-13 )
God does not spare His own Son, but sends Him to shed His blood on a wooden cross.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/John%203.16 - John 3:16 , http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Ephesians%201.7 - Ephesians 1:7 , http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Colossians%201.14 - Colossians 1:14 , http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Hebrews%209.12 - Hebrews 9:12 )
The death of Egypt's sons causes Pharaoh to release his hold on God's chosen people.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Exodus%2012.29-31 - Exodus 12:29-31 )
Jesus' death causes sin to lose its grip on those who receive His sacrifice as the unique atonement for sin.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Romans%208.2 - Romans 8:2 )
God commands the children of Israel to remember how He redeemed them from slavery by celebrating Passover.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Exodus%2012.14-21 - Exodus 12:14-21 )
As Jesus celebrated Passover with His disciples, He instructed them to use the unleavened bread and the cup as reminders of the redemption He was about to accomplish.
(
http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Luke%2022.19 - Luke 22:19 )
I got a question who were fisrt one to spread islam?


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 04 July 2009 at 3:27pm

To the truth. The parralels between Moses and Jesus.

(1) Both Moses and Jesus were born when Israel was under bondage (Moses in Egypt Ex.1:8,10, and Jesus during Israel's Roman bondage. Mt.2:1,Lk.2:1-2)

(2) Edicts were issued by the gentile powers of both Pharaoh and Herod for their death at birth. (Ex.2:3, Mt.2:15)

(3) Both were miraculously delivered from death during their infancy from their enemies of Israel (Ex.2:3, Lk.2:7;Mt 2:14,15)  and were preserved in childhood.

(4) Both had been born and found in unusual places. Moses was found in the water floating in a basket of bulrushes (Ex.2:3) Jesus in a manger (cave) wrapped in burial cloths (Lk.2:7) (5) Both Moses and Jesus were protected and preserved by the faith of their parent. Moses was hidden by faith (Ex.2:2-3 and Heb.11:23) Jesus� life was preserved by his parents obeying the message in a dream. (Mt.2:13-14)

(6) Both Moses and Jesus stayed safely in Egypt for a time. Moses (Ex.2:10) Jesus dwelt safely in Egypt (Mt.2:14-15)

(7) Both had their brethren and family speak against them. Moses had Mariam and Aaron speak against him taking a Cushite wife (Numb.12:1) Jesus had his family criticize and reject him (Mt.13:54-57, Jn.7:3)

(8) Both Moses and Jesus were reared in the house that was not their natural parents. (Moses in the house of Pharaoh (Ex.2:10) Jesus by Mary the mother of his humanity and his stepfather Joseph.

(9) Both predicted Israel's history (Deut.28:15-28; Mt.23:34,24:1,2,8,34)

(10) Both spoke out against Israel's enemies and persecutors. (Deut.23:3-4; Mt.25:41-48)

(11) Both were considered a snare to Israel (Ex10:7; 1Pt.2:8=Isa.8:14)

(12) Both cleansed leprosy. From Moses� time no one that was Jewish was cleansed until Jesus came (Numb.12:10-16, Mk.1:40-41). This is a very significant factor that proves Jesus was the prophet Moses spoke of, since no other cured one of the brethren of this disease from Moses' time.

(13) Both were used of God to feed Israel miraculously, Moses with manna in the wilderness (Ex.16:14-17) Jesus with the five loaves and two fish fed four and five thousand two times. (Mt.14:19-21) Jesus also called himself the true manna that came from heaven in Jn.6, comparing himself to the miracle that sustained Israel alive through the desert.

(14) Both had the forces of nature obey them (the seas) Moses (Ex.14:21-22) Jesus (Mt.8:26-27)

(15) Each had seventy helpers Moses (Num.11:16-17) Jesus ( Lk.10:1). 

(16) Both fasted 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness to bring a covenant to Israel. Moses on the top of Mt. Sinai (Ex.24:18, 34:28, Deut.9:9) Jesus in the desert as the Son of God (Mt.4:2)

(17) Both had a face to face relationship with God unlike any other person. Moses (Ex.33:9-11, Deut.34:10; Numb.12:7-8) Jesus was with God=face to face from eternity (Jn.1:1,18)

(18) God spoke audibly and directly from heaven to both Moses and Jesus. Moses (Ex.20:22, 24:12-16) Jesus (Mt.3:17; Jn.12:28)

(19) Both were God's spokesman to and for the people. Moses (Ex.9:35; Numb.12:2) Jesus (Heb.1:1-3). They Spoke as oracles of God (Moses Deut. 18:18) Jesus (Jn.14:24, 5:24)

(20) Both Moses and Jesus reflected and shown the glory of God. Moses reflected his glory temporarily. (Ex.34:29-35; 2 Cor.3:7-14) Jesus at the transfiguration, his face shown brighter than the sun revealing his true nature (Mt.17:2; Jn.1:14)

(21) Both were known for their humility and meekness as God's servants. Moses (Numb.12:3) Jesus (Mt.11:29; Phil.2:3-8)

(22) Both contended with masters of deception and darkness Moses with Pharaohs magicians (Ex 7:11, 1 Tim.3:8) Jesus with the Devil (Mt 4:1).

(23) Both prayed for the people intercessory prayers and were willing to bear the consequences of the people's sins. Moses asked to be blotted out of the book of life for the peoples sake (Ex.32:32-33).  Jesus asked for them to be kept from falling away (Jn. 17:9-17).  Jesus asked for those to be forgiven while he bore the consequences in their stead. (Lk.23:34, 2 Cor.5:19, 1 Pt.2:21-24, Isa.53:8)

(25) Both Moses and Jesus were rejected by their own brethren for a time and accepted by the gentiles. Moses (Ex.2:14-22, 32:1) Jesus was rejected by his own people and received by another who were not his own. (Isa.53:3; Mt.12:21; Mk.6:4; Lk.20:9-17, Rom.11:20)

(26) Both Moses and Jesus established a priesthood. Moses began the Aaronic priesthood which was temporary under the law (Lev.9; Numb.8:20-26; Heb.9:19-22). Jesus established a eternal priesthood under the new covenant of grace which He alone functions as the high priest forever. (Heb.7:17,19,23,25-28; 9:12)

(27) Both sprinkled the blood of the covenant on the altar and the people. Moses (Ex.24:7-8; Lev.8:19) Jesus (Heb.9,12:24; 1Pt.1:2)

(28) Both were sent by God to reveal His name, person and law to the people. To Moses God said to tell them I Am sent you. (Ex.3:13-14) Jesus said God sent him as his exact representative revealing his name (I Am) and nature to the people. (Jn.8:42; 17:6,11-12; Col.2:9; Heb.1:3)

(29) Both were involved in giving the covenant to the people Jn.1:17 the law came through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.� At the feast of Pentecost Moses gave the law. At the feast (Pentecost) in the new covenant Jesus gave the Holy Spirit (Acts 2).

(30) Both brought deliverance to the Jewish people. Those who followed Moses out of the bondage of slavery to Egypt. (Ex.3:7-8,10;12:31-33,42) Jesus brought people out of a greater bondage, slavery to sin. (Rom.3:24-25,6:6-7,8:2-4; Eph.1:7;Heb.9:26) 

(31) Both had an angel guard their graves. After Moses died Michael the Arch-angel guarded his body. (Jude 9) And when Jesus rose an angel guarded his tomb. (Mt.26:2-6)

(32) Both re-appeared after they died, Moses ( Mt 17:3 with Jesus before his death) Jesus (Acts 1:3)



Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 5:54am
"I got a question who were fisrt one to spread islam?"

The answer is Adam, the first man on earth. Islam means - Submission to the will of Allah.  If you consider yourself the son of Adam, you are also supposed to submit to the will of Allah - The Creator of the whole universe.

Unless of course you are not.


-------------
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.


Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 6:00am
Eight Irrefutable arguments that Muhammed is like Moses.

Father and Mother
(1) "Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses!"

Miraculous Birth
(2) "Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle. " O MY LORD! HOW SHALL I HAVE A SON WHEN NO MAN HATH TOUCHED ME? " The angel says in reply: "EVEN SO: ALLAH CREATETH WHAT HE WILLETH: WHEN HE HATH DECREED A PLAN, HE BUT SAITH TO IT "BE," AND IT IS " (HOLY QUR'AN, 3:47).

Marriage Ties
(3) Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life.. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses.

Jesus Rejected by his People
(4) "Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too made Muhummed's life impossible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the Bible: 'He (Jesus) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT.' (John 1:11). And even today, after two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejected him. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses.

"Other-Wordly" Kingdom

(5) "Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as kings. A prophet means a man who receives Divine Revelation for the Guidance of Man and this Guidance he conveys to God's creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial whether the person wears a crown or not, or whether he was ever addressed as king or monarch: if the man has the prerogative of inflicting capital punishment - HE IS A KING. Moses possessed such a power. Do you remember the Israelite who was found picking up firewood on Sabbath Day, and Moses had him stoned to death? (Numbers- 15:13). There are other crimes also mentioned in the Bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Muhummed too, had the power of life and death over his people. 
There are instances in the Bible of persons who were given gift of prophecy only, but they were not in a position to implement their directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the face of stubborn rejection of their message, were the prophets lot, Jonah, Daniel, Ezra, and John the Baptist. They could only deliver the message, but could not enforce the Law. The Holy Prophet Jesus (Peace p.b.u.h) also belonged to this category. The Christian Gospel clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, Charged for sedition, Jesus made a convincing point in his defence to refute the false charge: JESUS ANSWERED, "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD': IF MY KINGDOM WERE OF THIS WORLD, THEN WOULD MY SERVANTS FIGHT, THAT I SHOULD NOT BE DELIVERED TO THE JEWS; BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM HENCE" (John 18:36) This convinced Pilate (A Pagan) that though Jesus might not be in full possession of his mental faculty, he did not strike him as being a danger to his rule. Jesus claimed a spiritual Kingdom only; in other words he only claimed to be a Prophet. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.

 No New Laws
(6) "Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the guidance of his people. Muhummed comes to a people steeped in barbarism and ignorance. They married their step-mothers; they buried their daughters alive; drunkenness, adultery, idolatry, and gambling were the order of the day. Gibbon describe the Arabs before Islam in his "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", THE HUMAN BRUTE, ALMOST WITHOUT SENSE, IS POORLY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE REST OF THE ANIMAL CREATION.' There was hardly anything to distinguish between the "man" and the "animal" of the time; they were animals in human form.
"From this abject barbarism, Muhummed elevated them, in the words of Thomas Carlysle, "into torch-bearers of light and learning.' 'TO THE ARAB NATION IT WAS AS A BIRTH FROM DARKNESS INTO LIGHT. ARABIA FIRST BECAME ALIVE BY MEANS OF IT. A POOR SHEPHERD PEOPLE, ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERTS SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. SEE, THE UNNOTICED BECOMES WORLD NOTABLE, THE SMALL HAS GROWN WORLD-GREAT. WITHIN ONE CENTURY AFTERWARDS ARABIA WAS AT GRANADA ON ONE HAND AND AT DELHI ON THE OTHER. GLANCING IN VALOUR AND SPLENDOUR, AND THE LIGHT OF GENIUS, ARABIA SHINES OVER A GREAT SECTION OF THE WORLD. ..." The fact is that Muhummed gave his people a Law and Order they never had before.
As regards Jesus, when the Jews felt suspicious of him that he might be an impostor with designs to pervert their teachings, Jesus took pains to assure them that he had not come with a new religion - no new laws and no new regulations. I quote his own words: 'THINK NOT THAT I AM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18). In other words he had not come with any new laws or regulation he came only to fulfil the old law. This what he gave the Jews to understand- unless he was speaking with the tongue in his cheek trying to bluff the Jews into accepting him as a man of God and by subterfuge trying to ram a new religion down their throats. No! This Messenger of God would never resort to such fo ul means to subvert the Religion of God. He himself fulfilled the laws. He observed the commandments of Moses, and he respected the Sabbath. At no time did a single Jew point a finger at him to say, 'why don't you fast' or 'why don't you wash your hands before you break bread',which charges they always levied against his disciples, but never against Jesus. This is because as a good Jew he honoured the laws of the prophets who preceded him. In short, he had created no new religion and had brought no new law like Moses and Muhummed. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.

How they Departed
(7) "Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.

Heavenly Abode

(8) "Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven. Is this true. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammed is like Moses.

http://www.jamaat.net/muhinbible/muhinbible.html



-------------
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 9:49am
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Whats your point,that you read and dont understand look at yourself bro.You post in bold big letters and still find away to not make sence.


Does it make sense to to you when the quran stated the sun sets in a murky pool of water you only believe cos it stand so in th Quran.
What Surah and Ayat states this?


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 9:55am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

"I got a question who were fisrt one to spread islam?"The answer is Adam, the first man on earth. Islam means - Submission to the will of Allah.� If you consider yourself the son of Adam, you are also supposed to submit to the will of Allah - The Creator of the whole universe.Unless of course you are not.
As Salamu Alaikum, Nur.JazakAllah Kheiran for your respones, you speak Al Haqq!May Allah Bless you.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Whats your point,that you read and dont understand look at yourself bro.You post in bold big letters and still find away to not make sence.


Does it make sense to to you when the quran stated the sun sets in a murky pool of water you only believe cos it stand so in th Quran.
What Surah and Ayat states this?
You need to know that the Qur'an speaks in paraties at times.What you read and what the meaning is,is not literally but paints a picture for you in your mind so that you can understand.I already said that you read and you dont understand, you just prove that.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

"I got a question who were fisrt one to spread islam?"

The answer is Adam, the first man on earth. Islam means - Submission to the will of Allah.  If you consider yourself the son of Adam, you are also supposed to submit to the will of Allah - The Creator of the whole universe.

Unless of course you are not.
 
Yes it was Adam he was the first prophet  and he had teach all people on earth about Quran. 


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

"I got a question who were fisrt one to spread islam?"The answer is Adam, the first man on earth. Islam means - Submission to the will of Allah.  If you consider yourself the son of Adam, you are also supposed to submit to the will of Allah - The Creator of the whole universe.Unless of course you are not.
As Salamu Alaikum, Nur.JazakAllah Kheiran for your respones, you speak Al Haqq!May Allah Bless you.
 
Yes it was Adam the prophet he had preach the Quran to all the people.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

Eight Irrefutable arguments that Muhammed is like Moses.

Father and Mother
(1) "Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses!"

Miraculous Birth
(2) "Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle. " O MY LORD! HOW SHALL I HAVE A SON WHEN NO MAN HATH TOUCHED ME? " The angel says in reply: "EVEN SO: ALLAH CREATETH WHAT HE WILLETH: WHEN HE HATH DECREED A PLAN, HE BUT SAITH TO IT "BE," AND IT IS " (HOLY QUR'AN, 3:47).

Marriage Ties
(3) Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life.. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses.

Jesus Rejected by his People
(4) "Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too made Muhummed's life impossible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the Bible: 'He (Jesus) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT.' (John 1:11). And even today, after two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejected him. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses.

"Other-Wordly" Kingdom

(5) "Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as kings. A prophet means a man who receives Divine Revelation for the Guidance of Man and this Guidance he conveys to God's creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial whether the person wears a crown or not, or whether he was ever addressed as king or monarch: if the man has the prerogative of inflicting capital punishment - HE IS A KING. Moses possessed such a power. Do you remember the Israelite who was found picking up firewood on Sabbath Day, and Moses had him stoned to death? (Numbers- 15:13). There are other crimes also mentioned in the Bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Muhummed too, had the power of life and death over his people. 
There are instances in the Bible of persons who were given gift of prophecy only, but they were not in a position to implement their directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the face of stubborn rejection of their message, were the prophets lot, Jonah, Daniel, Ezra, and John the Baptist. They could only deliver the message, but could not enforce the Law. The Holy Prophet Jesus (Peace p.b.u.h) also belonged to this category. The Christian Gospel clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, Charged for sedition, Jesus made a convincing point in his defence to refute the false charge: JESUS ANSWERED, "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD': IF MY KINGDOM WERE OF THIS WORLD, THEN WOULD MY SERVANTS FIGHT, THAT I SHOULD NOT BE DELIVERED TO THE JEWS; BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM HENCE" (John 18:36) This convinced Pilate (A Pagan) that though Jesus might not be in full possession of his mental faculty, he did not strike him as being a danger to his rule. Jesus claimed a spiritual Kingdom only; in other words he only claimed to be a Prophet. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.

 No New Laws
(6) "Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the guidance of his people. Muhummed comes to a people steeped in barbarism and ignorance. They married their step-mothers; they buried their daughters alive; drunkenness, adultery, idolatry, and gambling were the order of the day. Gibbon describe the Arabs before Islam in his "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", THE HUMAN BRUTE, ALMOST WITHOUT SENSE, IS POORLY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE REST OF THE ANIMAL CREATION.' There was hardly anything to distinguish between the "man" and the "animal" of the time; they were animals in human form.
"From this abject barbarism, Muhummed elevated them, in the words of Thomas Carlysle, "into torch-bearers of light and learning.' 'TO THE ARAB NATION IT WAS AS A BIRTH FROM DARKNESS INTO LIGHT. ARABIA FIRST BECAME ALIVE BY MEANS OF IT. A POOR SHEPHERD PEOPLE, ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERTS SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. SEE, THE UNNOTICED BECOMES WORLD NOTABLE, THE SMALL HAS GROWN WORLD-GREAT. WITHIN ONE CENTURY AFTERWARDS ARABIA WAS AT GRANADA ON ONE HAND AND AT DELHI ON THE OTHER. GLANCING IN VALOUR AND SPLENDOUR, AND THE LIGHT OF GENIUS, ARABIA SHINES OVER A GREAT SECTION OF THE WORLD. ..." The fact is that Muhummed gave his people a Law and Order they never had before.
As regards Jesus, when the Jews felt suspicious of him that he might be an impostor with designs to pervert their teachings, Jesus took pains to assure them that he had not come with a new religion - no new laws and no new regulations. I quote his own words: 'THINK NOT THAT I AM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18). In other words he had not come with any new laws or regulation he came only to fulfil the old law. This what he gave the Jews to understand- unless he was speaking with the tongue in his cheek trying to bluff the Jews into accepting him as a man of God and by subterfuge trying to ram a new religion down their throats. No! This Messenger of God would never resort to such fo ul means to subvert the Religion of God. He himself fulfilled the laws. He observed the commandments of Moses, and he respected the Sabbath. At no time did a single Jew point a finger at him to say, 'why don't you fast' or 'why don't you wash your hands before you break bread',which charges they always levied against his disciples, but never against Jesus. This is because as a good Jew he honoured the laws of the prophets who preceded him. In short, he had created no new religion and had brought no new law like Moses and Muhummed. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.

How they Departed
(7) "Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses.

Heavenly Abode

(8) "Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven. Is this true. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammed is like Moses.

http://www.jamaat.net/muhinbible/muhinbible.html

 
ONE THING GOD SPEAK TO MOSES DIRECTLY AND WITH MUHAMMAD HE DID NOT.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 05 July 2009 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Whats your point,that you read and dont understand look at yourself bro.You post in bold big letters and still find away to not make sence.

 

Does it make sense to to you when the quran stated the sun sets in a murky pool of water you only believe cos it stand so in th Quran.
What Surah and Ayat states this?
 
You must go and study Quran more thoroughly it is in the same surah where youths slept for 309 years believe or not.
 

Al-Kahf - The Cave - Meccan

 

  1. 18:83 They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnain. Say, "I will rehearse to you something of his story."

  2. 18:84 Verily We established his power on earth, and We gave him the ways and the means to all ends.

  3. 18:85 One (such) way he followed,

  4. 18:86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."



Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 8:11am
JazakAllah Kheiran for the reference.You are right I do need to study more,I am still learning to read it in Arabic.So you see I dont read Qur'an the same as you do.It's a book of knowledge and a guide for me ,is it knowledge that you seek when you read it?


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 10:31am
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

"I got a question who were fisrt one to spread islam?"The answer is Adam, the first man on earth. Islam means - Submission to the will of Allah.� If you consider yourself the son of Adam, you are also supposed to submit to the will of Allah - The Creator of the whole universe.Unless of course you are not.
As Salamu Alaikum, Nur.JazakAllah Kheiran for your respones, you speak Al Haqq!May Allah Bless you.


.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 06 July 2009 at 10:35am
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

"I got a question who were fisrt one to spread islam?"The answer is Adam, the first man on earth. Islam means - Submission to the will of Allah.� If you consider yourself the son of Adam, you are also supposed to submit to the will of Allah - The Creator of the whole universe.Unless of course you are not.
As Salamu Alaikum, Nur.JazakAllah Kheiran for your respones, you speak Al Haqq!May Allah Bless you.


Yes it was Adam the prophet he had preach the Quran to all the people.
Jouberar,Where did you read this?


Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 07 July 2009 at 7:26am
Yes it was Adam the prophet he had preach the Quran to all the people.

If Adam were the Prophet that preached the Quran to all people, why are you not following Our Great Father Adam?

ONE THING GOD SPEAK TO MOSES DIRECTLY AND WITH MUHAMMAD HE DID NOT

For your information dear Jouberarr, Our Great Prophet Muhammad was raised by Allah Our Creator to meet Him in Heaven and this is the verse in the Quran that support it.


Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Inviolable Mosque to the Far-Distant Mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing. [17: 1]


-------------
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 07 July 2009 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

Yes it was Adam the prophet he had preach the Quran to all the people.

If Adam were the Prophet that preached the Quran to all people, why are you not following Our Great Father Adam?

ONE THING GOD SPEAK TO MOSES DIRECTLY AND WITH MUHAMMAD HE DID NOT

For your information dear Jouberarr, Our Great Prophet Muhammad was raised by Allah Our Creator to meet Him in Heaven and this is the verse in the Quran that support it.


Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from the Inviolable Mosque to the Far-Distant Mosque of which We have blessed the precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is the Hearing, the Seeing. [17: 1]
 
By that time there was no Mosque in Jerusalem.
 
 
Describing the Prophet Mohammed's Night Journey to heaven (isra'). With this, the Ommaids retroactively gave Jerusalem a role in Mohammed's life, a role that was entirely fictional since Mohammed never visited Jerusalem, died in 632, and the Al-Aqsa Mosque was not built until 715, eighty-three years after his death.


Posted By: believer
Date Posted: 08 July 2009 at 1:28pm
"ONE THING GOD SPEAK TO MOSES DIRECTLY AND WITH MUHAMMAD HE DID NOT."
 
Did Gabriel speak to Mohammad?
 
Have you noticed how Gabriel was reassuring to the people in the Holy Bible.   Gabriel told each one Do not be afraid.
 
With Mohammad he squeezed him and frightened Mohammad. 
There is no proof that Mohammad is a messanger- he was given no signs like the prophets of the Holy Bible.


-------------
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 12:05am
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

"ONE THING GOD SPEAK TO MOSES DIRECTLY AND WITH MUHAMMAD HE DID NOT."
 
Did Gabriel speak to Mohammad?
 
Have you noticed how Gabriel was reassuring to the people in the Holy Bible.   Gabriel told each one Do not be afraid.
 
With Mohammad he squeezed him and frightened Mohammad. 
There is no proof that Mohammad is a messanger- he was given no signs like the prophets of the Holy Bible.
 
Gabriel never in Muhammads live spoke to Muhammad he made up his storie cos Gabriel is the only angel that he could thought of and he had no witnesses of anyone one that some sort of angel talked to him. 


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 3:35pm
You should ask Allah to forgive you!Is it fun to you to say things about Prophet Muhammed(SAW)that you know not. Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim ,Qul ya aiyuhal Kafirun,La a budun ma ta budun, wa la antum abiduna ma a bud,wa la ana abidum ma abattum,wa la antum abiduna ma a bud lakum dinukum wa liya din.Suratul Al Kafirun(The Kafir)


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 09 July 2009 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by believer believer wrote:


"ONE THING GOD SPEAK TO MOSES DIRECTLY AND WITH�MUHAMMAD HE�DID NOT."


Did Gabriel speak to Mohammad?


Have you noticed how Gabriel was reassuring to the people in the Holy Bible.   Gabriel told each one Do not be afraid.


With Mohammad he squeezed him and frightened Mohammad.�

There is no proof that Mohammad is a messanger- he was given no signs like the prophets of the Holy Bible.


Gabriel never in Muhammads live spoke to Muhammad he made up his storie cos Gabriel is the only angel that he could�thought of and he had no witnesses of anyone one that some sort of angel talked to him.�


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 10 July 2009 at 4:10am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

You should ask Allah to forgive you!Is it fun to you to say things about Prophet Muhammed(SAW)that you know not. Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim ,Qul ya aiyuhal Kafirun,La a budun ma ta budun, wa la antum abiduna ma a bud,wa la ana abidum ma abattum,wa la antum abiduna ma a bud lakum dinukum wa liya din.Suratul Al Kafirun(The Kafir)
Muhammad was not prophet the real GOD never  announced his birth place and his conception or birthday.
 
Muhammad ordained himself as a prophet  and every time he comitted atrocities he then stated Allah give him permission like the raids and having committing adultry and mary  a 6 year old girl and took his adoupted son's wive and the people that he raided he took thier wives as slaves then he said Allah permit him to do so. 
 
  Moses was a descendent of the tribe of Levi, one of the twelve sons of Jacob, who was renamed Israel. Unlike Moses, though Muhammad�s genealogy is not mentioned in the Koran, he is said to be a descendent of Ishmael, NOT Israel.
 
The so called prophecies of Muhammad in the bible is the biggest lie and biggest sin in the world that muslims have comitted to formulate God's word in a unformidable lie directed  it  into thier scriptures and and twisted it so and brain washed Innocent God loving people who are serious about thier faith and convince them with lies and false doctrines and tell Muhammad's words is God' so called word you can see when he raided and looted the Arabs  he gave some of  the booty he gave assumingly to Allah and some of the booty he take for himself and what happens Allah's booty Muhammad have taken it for himself cos he know he lied   to  his compannions about Allah it was only way to get him rich and mislead his mercenaries his stories about Allah was a form of security to get rich fast and legalise the extinction of his enemies.
 
His followers are still doing it  today  just shall I say  in a more civilised manner but if listen to the news the muslims are not so civilized when killing someone just to go to Muhammad's so called parsdise.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 10 July 2009 at 4:13am
He(Allah) (alone)knows the Unseen, Nor does He make anyone Acquainted with His Mysteries"Except a messenger Whom He has chosen:And then he makes Aband of watchers March before him And behind him,"That he may know That they have (truly)Brought and delivered The Messages of their Lord:And He surrounds(All the mysteries)that are with them,and takes account Of every single thing." 72:( 26-28)


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 10 July 2009 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

You should ask Allah to forgive you!Is it fun to you to say things about Prophet Muhammed(SAW)that you know not. Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim ,Qul ya aiyuhal Kafirun,La a budun ma ta budun, wa la antum abiduna ma a bud,wa la ana abidum ma abattum,wa la antum abiduna ma a bud lakum dinukum wa liya din.Suratul Al Kafirun(The Kafir)

Muhammad was not prophet the real�GOD never��announced his birth place and his conception or birthday.


Muhammad ordained himself as a prophet� and every time he comitted atrocities he then stated Allah give him permission like the raids and having committing adultry and mary��a 6 year old girl and took�his adoupted son's wive and the people that he raided he took thier wives as slaves then he said�Allah permit him to do so.�


��Moses was a descendent of the tribe of Levi, one of the twelve sons of Jacob, who was renamed Israel. Unlike Moses, though Muhammad�s genealogy is not mentioned in the Koran, he is said to be a descendent of Ishmael, NOT Israel.


The so called prophecies of Muhammad in the bible is the biggest lie�and biggest sin in the world that muslims have comitted to formulate God's word in a unformidable lie directed� it� into thier scriptures and and twisted it so and brain washed Innocent God loving people�who are serious about thier faith�and convince them�with lies and false doctrines and tell Muhammad's words is God' so called word you can see when he raided and looted the�Arabs��he gave�some of��the booty he gave assumingly to Allah and some of the booty he take for himself and what happens Allah's booty Muhammad have taken it for himself cos he know he lied   to� his compannions about Allah it was only way to get him rich and mislead his mercenaries his stories about Allah was a form of security to get rich fast and legalise the extinction of his enemies.


His followers are still doing it��today��just shall�I say� in a more civilised manner but if listen to the news the muslims are not so civilized when killing someone just to go to Muhammad's so called parsdise.
Why do you Lie on Prophet Muhammed(SAW)? Are you trying to offend Muslims here?Who or where did you read that Muhammed(SAW)was rich?What is the source of your information some anti-Islamic site?Ofcourse like I said before Keep trying and Islam is steady thriving(Alhamduillah)!!(AllahuAkbar)!!


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 11 July 2009 at 12:35am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

You should ask Allah to forgive you!Is it fun to you to say things about Prophet Muhammed(SAW)that you know not. Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim ,Qul ya aiyuhal Kafirun,La a budun ma ta budun, wa la antum abiduna ma a bud,wa la ana abidum ma abattum,wa la antum abiduna ma a bud lakum dinukum wa liya din.Suratul Al Kafirun(The Kafir)

Muhammad was not prophet the real GOD never  announced his birth place and his conception or birthday.

 

Muhammad ordained himself as a prophet  and every time he comitted atrocities he then stated Allah give him permission like the raids and having committing adultry and mary  a 6 year old girl and took his adoupted son's wive and the people that he raided he took thier wives as slaves then he said Allah permit him to do so. 

 

  Moses was a descendent of the tribe of Levi, one of the twelve sons of Jacob, who was renamed Israel. Unlike Moses, though Muhammad�s genealogy is not mentioned in the Koran, he is said to be a descendent of Ishmael, NOT Israel.

 

The so called prophecies of Muhammad in the bible is the biggest lie and biggest sin in the world that muslims have comitted to formulate God's word in a unformidable lie directed  it  into thier scriptures and and twisted it so and brain washed Innocent God loving people who are serious about thier faith and convince them with lies and false doctrines and tell Muhammad's words is God' so called word you can see when he raided and looted the Arabs  he gave some of  the booty he gave assumingly to Allah and some of the booty he take for himself and what happens Allah's booty Muhammad have taken it for himself cos he know he lied   to  his compannions about Allah it was only way to get him rich and mislead his mercenaries his stories about Allah was a form of security to get rich fast and legalise the extinction of his enemies.

 

His followers are still doing it  today  just shall I say  in a more civilised manner but if listen to the news the muslims are not so civilized when killing someone just to go to Muhammad's so called parsdise.
Why do you Lie on Prophet Muhammed(SAW)? Are you trying to offend Muslims here?Who or where did you read that Muhammed(SAW)was rich?What is the source of your information some anti-Islamic site?Ofcourse like I said before Keep trying and Islam is steady thriving(Alhamduillah)!!(AllahuAkbar)!!
 
May be you you haven't read the Quran and the hadiths completly it l tells all about what Muhammad have done so go and read and if can't find anything let me  I will show you. 


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 11 July 2009 at 12:39pm
I already asked for your source,I have read and still read both and you truly have'nt, and you have no knowlegde of what you speak of,Again I ask you where did you read that Prophet Muhammed(SAW)was rich?and out of respect for our beloved Prohet Muhammed(SAW),you should put(SAW)behind his(SAW)name.some of the things you post on this forum are very disrespectful.


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 12 July 2009 at 6:12am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

I already asked for your source,I have read and still read both and you truly have'nt, and you have no knowlegde of what you speak of,Again I ask you where did you read that Prophet Muhammed(SAW)was rich?and out of respect for our beloved Prohet Muhammed(SAW),you should put(SAW)behind his(SAW)name.some of the things you post on this forum are very disrespectful.


Hi Akhe,  I am a Christian, and I just glanced through your last couple of posts.
I personally have never read the muslim books nor intend to - not much time left before the rapture of the church - so i personally can't respond to your request for source - in terms of surahs and hadiths.  

However, on "you tube" I have listened to many many debates between "christian prince" and various muslim guests, including the subjects brought up in your last couple of exchanges.    Have you ever listened to some of "christian prince's" you tube debates?

btw, i just made a post over in the Future Thoughts thread that you might be interested in.

Doug L.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 12 July 2009 at 6:56am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

I already asked for your source,I have read and still read both and you truly have'nt, and you have no knowlegde of what you speak of,Again I ask you where did you read that Prophet Muhammed(SAW)was rich?and out of respect for our beloved Prohet Muhammed(SAW),you should put(SAW)behind his(SAW)name.some of the things you post on this forum are very disrespectful.
 
In your Noble Quran he was stinking rich of all his robberies that he have committed.
You are a muslim but you don't even know your scriptures are blind or what ,or do never read the Quran or study the history of Islam.
 

Al-Anfal - Spoils Of War, Booty - Madinan

  1. In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

  1. 8:1 They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Apostle: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Apostle, if ye do believe."

  2. 8:2 For, Believers are those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a tremor in their hearts, and when they hear His signs rehearsed, find their faith strengthened, and put (all) their trust in their Lord;

  3. 8:3 Who establish regular prayers and spend (freely) out of the gifts We have given them for sustenance:

  4. 8:4 Such in truth are the believers: they have grades of dignity with their Lord, and forgiveness, and generous sustenance:

  5. 8:5 Just as thy Lord ordered thee out of thy house in truth, even though a party among the Believers disliked it,

  6. 8:6 Disputing with thee concerning the truth after it was made manifest, as if they were being driven to death and they (actually) saw it.

  7. 8:7 Behold! Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers;-

  8. 8:8 That He might justify Truth and prove Falsehood false, distasteful though it be to those in guilt.

  9. 8:9 Remember ye implored the assistance of your Lord, and He answered you: "I will assist you with a thousand of the angels, ranks on ranks."

  10. 8:10 Allah made it but a message of hope, and an assurance to your hearts: (in any case) there is no help except from Allah: and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

  11. 8:11 Remember He covered you with a sort of drowsiness, to give you calm as from Himself, and he caused rain to descend on you from heaven, to clean you therewith, to remove from you the stain of Satan, to strengthen your hearts, and to plant your feet firmly therewith.

  12. 8:12 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

  13. 8:13 This because they contended against Allah and His Apostle: If any contend against Allah and His Apostle, Allah is strict in punishment.

  14. 8:14 Thus (will it be said): "Taste ye then of the (punishment): for those who resist Allah, is the penalty of the Fire."

  15. 8:15 O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them.

  16. 8:16 If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

8:17 It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah's: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself: for Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things).

 
  1. Qur'an 5:51 "O believers, do not hold Jews and Christians as your allies. They are allies of one another; and anyone who makes them his friends is one of them." Qur'an 2:10 "As for those who deny Islam...they shall be the faggots for the Fire of Hell." Islam�s god is a spirit of an entirely different color. Ishaq:327 "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.'" The Saudi imam has correctly interpreted Islam�s message. Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive." Qur'an 33:26 "Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."

 

Al-Baqara - The Cow - Madinan

 

Nouble Quran.

  1. 2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

  2. 2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

  3. 2:192 But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

  4. 2:193 And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

     9 :29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
59:8 "The spoils [booty & plunder] are for the Emigrants who were expelled from their homes and from their belongings while seeking the bounty of Allah, and aiding His Messenger: such are the sincere ones. They are loyal."

63:10 "Spend out of the substance [booty & plunder]  which We gave you before death comes and you say, 'My Lord, why didn't You give me respite for a little while? I wish I had given (more).'" [See Bukhari Hadith 2.522 to explain this verse.]
 
I hope this is enough for you there is plenty more.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 8:08am
Originally posted by Douggg Douggg wrote:


Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

I already asked for your source,I have read and still read both and you truly have'nt, and you have no knowlegde of what you speak of,Again I ask you where did you read that Prophet Muhammed(SAW)was rich?and out of respect for our beloved Prohet Muhammed(SAW),you should put(SAW)behind his(SAW)name.some of the things you post on this forum are very disrespectful.
Hi Akhe,� I am a Christian, and I just glanced through your last couple of posts.I personally have never read the muslim books nor intend to - not much time left before the rapture of the church - so i personally can't respond to your request for source - in terms of surahs and hadiths. � However, on "you tube" I have listened to many many debates between "christian prince" and various muslim guests, including the subjects brought up in your last couple of exchanges. �� Have you ever listened to some of "christian prince's" you tube debates?btw, i just made a post over in the Future Thoughts thread that you might be interested in.Doug L.
Wasalam,Doug.No I never heard of "Christian prince"But I have watched many debates with various Christian Prechers vs Ahmed Didott you should check them out, very good!


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 10:04am
First off Jouberar,I have waited for a proper response from you about your proof that Prophet Muhammed(SAW) was rich,and you gave me nothing stating that.        In Islam we deal with facts that are backed by reliable sources.The fact is that Prophet Muhammed(SAW)was(This is adressing your post as a whole) allowed to keep spoils of war,but never accumulated any wealth.       He gave it all away in sadaqa(charity)even when he(SAW) died he had nothing he slept on a bed of leaves and or hay(does this sound like a rich man to you?)nice try with the Al Tawbah 9:29)I know Qur'an better than you,did you know that Al Tawbah is a warning to Muslims it's the only Surah that starts without Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim.You should do more studing from your own book before you approach a Muslim about his knowledge of Qur'an anything I have questions about there are many Shayks I can ask.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 10:31am
[QUOTE=JOUBERAR]
In your Noble Quran he was stinking rich of all his robberies that he have committed.

You are a muslim but you don't even know your scriptures are blind or what ,or do never read the Quran or study the history of Islam.



�9 :29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.                                                 Ahki response:Nice try yet you fail miserly again.I read Qur'an with understanding that you clearly are lacking.You have quoted nothing that supports your claim.Jizyah:A tax paid by non-Muslims living in a Muslim state.Since the non-Muslims are exempt frm military service and taxes imposed on Muslims,they must pay this tax to compensate.It garuntees them security and protection.If the state cannot protect those who paid jizah,then the amount they paid is returned to them.Next time know what you are talking about or put your post in question form and please stop using the Qur'an to show how ignorant you are of it.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 11:46am
(Sahih Bukhari 005.059 .610)Reported by Abu Qatada.     The Prophet(SAW) said "Abu Barkr(RAD) has spoken the truth.Give it (the spoils)back to him(O man)! So he gave it to me (Abu Qatada)and I bought a garden (in the land of)Banu Salama with it (i.e. the spoils)and that was the first property I got after embracing Islam.(ALHamduillah)!


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 12:00pm
You see there are many of stories in which states Prophet Muhammed(SAW) possesed booty from spoils of war but he never kept any of it for himself(SAW).as I have said many of times you read but you dont understand.May Allah help you with that.


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by Douggg Douggg wrote:


Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

I already asked for your source,I have read and still read both and you truly have'nt, and you have no knowlegde of what you speak of,Again I ask you where did you read that Prophet Muhammed(SAW)was rich?and out of respect for our beloved Prohet Muhammed(SAW),you should put(SAW)behind his(SAW)name.some of the things you post on this forum are very disrespectful.
Hi Akhe,  I am a Christian, and I just glanced through your last couple of posts.I personally have never read the muslim books nor intend to - not much time left before the rapture of the church - so i personally can't respond to your request for source - in terms of surahs and hadiths.   However, on "you tube" I have listened to many many debates between "christian prince" and various muslim guests, including the subjects brought up in your last couple of exchanges.    Have you ever listened to some of "christian prince's" you tube debates?btw, i just made a post over in the Future Thoughts thread that you might be interested in.Doug L.
Wasalam,Doug.No I never heard of "Christian prince"But I have watched many debates with various Christian Prechers vs Ahmed Didott you should check them out, very good!


I have watched one or two of the Ahmed Didott debates on You Tube.   I think Mr. Didott has been dead for four years now.  

Doug L.


Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 2:54pm
And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger* and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer,....... (8:41)

*
ie. for the Islamic state, to be used for the common weal.



-------------
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'


Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 3:02pm
Jouberar,

Apparently your brain is at rest when you copy stuff from anti Islamic sites run by Islamophobic desperados and your posts are pathetic even for mumbo jumbo.


-------------
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 13 July 2009 at 4:09pm
As Salamu Alaikum,Saladin.JazakAllah Kheiran for your response.He is spreading alot of untruths around here.May Allah Bless you.


Posted By: Saladin
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 5:05am
Wa'alaikum salaam wa'rahmathullahi wa'barakathuhu Akhe.


-------------
'Trust everyone but not the devil in them'


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

First off Jouberar,I have waited for a proper response from you about your proof that Prophet Muhammed(SAW) was rich,and you gave me nothing stating that.        In Islam we deal with facts that are backed by reliable sources.The fact is that Prophet Muhammed(SAW)was(This is adressing your post as a whole) allowed to keep spoils of war,but never accumulated any wealth.       He gave it all away in sadaqa(charity)even when he(SAW) died he had nothing he slept on a bed of leaves and or hay(does this sound like a rich man to you?)nice try with the Al Tawbah 9:29)I know Qur'an better than you,did you know that Al Tawbah is a warning to Muslims it's the only Surah that starts without Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim.You should do more studing from your own book before you approach a Muslim about his knowledge of Qur'an anything I have questions about there are many Shayks I can ask.
 
Thats what the muslims trying to rub in to others brains so that they can think he was very poor and have compassion with Muhammad, but  why did he then accumumalated spoils of war is the same as accumumalate wealth he use to spend it for his on wealth do you think he will just store it in the back of his tent look how many wifes could he afford  then he gave orders to other muslims they can have only more than one wife if they can afford it.(Muhammad could afford he had the wealth)
 
You don't rob people in a war and gave there belongings to charity for the poor as gesture of goodwill, so it means I can steal from others and gave it to poor people and expect from God to let me go to heaven is that what you try to make  me understand you can go to war for the puprose to steal thier property and gave it to charity.  


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by Saladin Saladin wrote:

Jouberar,

Apparently your brain is at rest when you copy stuff from anti Islamic sites run by Islamophobic desperados and your posts are pathetic even for mumbo jumbo.
 
What you want to tell me the Quran is a anti-islamic site the hadiths is anti-islamic the sunna is anti-islamic I think you must go and have eyes tested because you read the Quran but your brains do not register because you don't want it to register.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 20 July 2009 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Saladin Saladin wrote:

And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger* and for the kinsman (who hath need) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer,....... (8:41)

*
ie. for the Islamic state, to be used for the common weal.

 
Common wealth your right common wealth you gave them the answer so simple, if that came out from a war and with intention to rob, it is blood money and every one who touches it and consumed it is cursed, the dealer is as good as the stealer..


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 2:35pm
[Jouberar]You don't rob people in a war and gave there belongings to charity for the poor as gesture of goodwill, so it means I can steal from others and gave it to poor people and expect from God to let me go to heaven is that what you try to make me understand you can go to war for the puprose to steal thier property and gave it to charity.[Ahke Abdullah]You cant go to starving and diseas riddled countries and tell people you will feed them and cure them if they believe that Jesus(As)is there lord and savior.(i.e Christian Missonaries)


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:14pm
[Jouberar]Thats what the muslims trying to rub in to others brains so that they can think he was very poor and have compassion with Muhammad, but why did he then accumumalated spoils of war is the same as accumumalate wealth he use to spend it for his on wealth do you think he will just store it in the back of his tent look how many wifes could he afford then he gave orders to other muslims they can have only more than one wife if they can afford it.(Muhammad could afford he had the wealth)

[Akhe Abdullah]Who say he (SAW)accumulated booty?You lie!The Spoils of War(The Life of Muhammad by Haykal pg 315) The Prophet(SAW) divided the properties,women,and children of Banu Qurayzah among the Muslims after he had separated one-fifth for public purposes.Look I know you hate Muslims and Islam stop spreading lies and slandering our beloved Prophet(SAW). He was the best of people.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

[Jouberar]You don't rob people in a war and gave there belongings to charity for the poor as gesture of goodwill, so it means I can steal from others and gave it to poor people and expect from God to let me go to heaven is that what you try to make me understand you can go to war for the puprose to steal thier property and gave it to charity.[Ahke Abdullah]You cant go to starving and diseas riddled countries and tell people you will feed them and cure them if they believe that Jesus(As)is there lord and savior.(i.e Christian Missonaries)
 
You are running away from the subject of your so called holy prophet who raided and steal from other to take for himself and pay his warriors Jesus and his Apostles never ever thought about a war against they never invaded  any countries like Muhammad and rob and steal or kill and take woman as slaves like Muhammad ,then every time muslims say peace be upon him, peace be upon him, he had no peace in his hart he was always at war ready to kill and so was the muslims at war after he died.  


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

[Jouberar]Thats what the muslims trying to rub in to others brains so that they can think he was very poor and have compassion with Muhammad, but why did he then accumumalated spoils of war is the same as accumumalate wealth he use to spend it for his on wealth do you think he will just store it in the back of his tent look how many wifes could he afford then he gave orders to other muslims they can have only more than one wife if they can afford it.(Muhammad could afford he had the wealth)

[Akhe Abdullah]Who say he (SAW)accumulated booty?You lie!The Spoils of War(The Life of Muhammad by Haykal pg 315) The Prophet(SAW) divided the properties,women,and children of Banu Qurayzah among the Muslims after he had separated one-fifth for public purposes.Look I know you hate Muslims and Islam stop spreading lies and slandering our beloved Prophet(SAW). He was the best of people.
 
So you accepted that he also steal woman and children in his blood thirsty and property thirsty wars and divided them among the muslims is that with a acceptable yes.
 
Then one fifth of stolen raided goods goes for muslims public purposes is that with an acceptable yes.
 
So islam and Muhammad thrive on the goods stolen in war thats why the wars must go on and on to donate to islam's fast growing wealth.   


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 3:48pm
Many Christians,have attacked the person of Muhammad and attributed to him the most unbecoming epithets there by giving vent to their resentment and sowing the seeds of hatred and hostility.Despite the commonly held view that the Crusades have long been finished and forgotten,fanatic Christian antagonism still continues to rage against Muhammed.The present situation has not changed except for the worse.Moved by the same fanaticism,the missionaries resort to immoral and depraved means in theirstruggle against Islam.(THE LIFE OF MUHAMMED xxxv Haykal)copy right 1976


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Many Christians,have attacked the person of Muhammad and attributed to him the most unbecoming epithets there by giving vent to their resentment and sowing the seeds of hatred and hostility.Despite the commonly held view that the Crusades have long been finished and forgotten,fanatic Christian antagonism still continues to rage against Muhammed.The present situation has not changed except for the worse.Moved by the same fanaticism,the missionaries resort to immoral and depraved means in theirstruggle against Islam.(THE LIFE OF MUHAMMED xxxv Haykal)copy right 1976
 
Who ordered the crusades the Pope or Christ the muslims have no back bone thats why always seek refuge by means of the crusade while the muslim were main cause that started the crusade after they raided and stole Jerusalem from the Jews and there excuse for the wrong doing in islam is look at the crusade look what the christians have done, but they are not looking back and seen what the muslims have done no that was right because Allah permited it.
The crusades was wrong and that was not an order God or Christ.
In the eyes of God,Jesus and real christian and in me point of view it is totally wrong for a christian to go war, our war is not against "flesh blood" and the church ministers gave the wrong education to thier members christian must take part in any form of war or even think of murder, war is murder and Jesus said we must not even hate your brother and love those who hate you, war is absolutely taboo for Christians.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 22 July 2009 at 9:43am
[Jouberar]christian must take part in any form of war or even think of murder, war is murder and Jesus said we must not even hate your brother and love those who hate you, war is absolutely taboo for Christians.    [Akhe Abdullah]Even in your own words, that these clearly are, you contradict yourself and what you claim Christians to believe.Take a closer look at what you wrote.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 22 July 2009 at 9:58am
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Many Christians,have attacked the person of Muhammad and attributed to him the most unbecoming epithets there by giving vent to their resentment and sowing the seeds of hatred and hostility.Despite the commonly held view that the Crusades have long been finished and forgotten,fanatic Christian antagonism still continues to rage against Muhammed.The present situation has not changed except for the worse.Moved by the same fanaticism,the missionaries resort to immoral and depraved means in theirstruggle against Islam.(THE LIFE OF MUHAMMED xxxv Haykal)copy right 1976


Who ordered the crusades the Pope or Christ the muslims have no back bone thats why always seek refuge by�means of the crusade while the muslim�were main cause�that started the crusade�after they�raided and stole Jerusalem from the Jews�and there excuse for the wrong doing�in islam is look at the crusade look what the christians have done,�but they are not�looking back and seen what the muslims have done�no that was right because Allah permited it.

The crusades was wrong and that was not an�order God or Christ.

In the eyes of God,Jesus and real christian�and in me�point of view it is totally wrong for a christian to go war, our war is not against "flesh blood" and the�church ministers gave the wrong education to thier members christian must take part�in any form of war or even think of murder, war is murder and Jesus said�we must not even hate your brother and love those who hate you, war is absolutely taboo for Christians.
The First Principles of the Two Religions:(Haykal) Muslims rejoicing at the victory of Heraclius and his Christian armies was great.Despite the many controversies that had taken place between the followers of Muhammad and those who believed in Jesus,their friendly and fraternal relationships continued to be strong throughout the life of the Prophet.


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 22 July 2009 at 12:27pm
[Jouberar]it is totally wrong for a christian to go war,                                                                                                         [Akhe Abdullah]Christianity and Fighting.The missionaries say,"But the spirit of Christianity condemns fighting altogether."I do not wish to pause here for investigating the truth,or lack of it,of such a claim.The history of Christianity,however,is a legitamate witness in this matter and so is the history of Islam.From the dawn of Christianity until today every country of the world has been soaked with blood in the name of Jesus Christ.The Romans and the Byzantines of old as well as European peoples of modern times are guilty of shedding blood in religious causes.The Crusades were launched and their fires fanned by Christians,not by Muslims.For hundred of years,one army after another rolled out of Europe in direction of the Muslims Orient to fight,to destroy and to shed blood.In every case,the popes who claimed to be the vicars of Jesus Christ,bleesed and encouraged these armies and hurried them to Jerusalem and other destinations.Were all these popes heretics? Was their Christianity spurious? Or was every one of them a pretender,an ignoramus,unaware that Christianity absolutely condemns fighting?The missionaries rejoin,"Those were the middle Ages,ages f darkness, unfit as evidence agaianst Christianity."If this is an argument on which they pin some hope,let us then turn to "the twentieth century of the highest human civilization."This century has indeed seen the same darkness as did the Middle Ages,Lord Allenby,representing the allied forces of England,France,Italy,Romania,and America,stopped in Jerusalem in 1918 after his conquest of that city toward the end of the first World War and said:"Today the Crusades have come to an end."


Posted By: kapalu
Date Posted: 09 August 2009 at 5:42pm
Greetings:

I will attempt to deal with all 60 questions. However not all at the same time.

I will begin with the first 14 dealing with the nature of God according to the christian view.

Now first remember that Christianity is seen as an extension of Judaism by true Christians.

Now ancient Israel believed that there was only ONE God. Take a look at Deuteronomy 4:35; 6:4, Isaiah 45:5, Zech 14:9.

The new testament makes the same claims. (please take a look at  mark 12:29-32, 1 cor 8:4-6, Eph 4:4-6; 1 Tim 2:5)

However the emphasis on one God does not contradict the Christian concept of the triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

The texts simply affirms that there is no pantheon of various gods or deities.

So then how do Christians arrive to the conclusion that the ONE God is Father Son and Spirit?

Well lets begin in the Torah( Old testament):

Well the Old Testement even though it does not explicitly tech that God is triune, it alludes to a plurality within the Godhead.

Gen 1:26 - Then God said, �Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.�

Gen 3:22 - Then the LORD God said, �Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever�

Gen 11:7 - Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another�s speech.�

So clearly the Prophet Moses is alluding to the plurality of God. Why someone talk to himself and refer to himself as US, OUR, WE.

Now many people would say that this type of language was pretty standard for royalty. For example, Queen victoria or maybe elizabeth 1 (i cant remember right now) was well known for referring to herself in the plural. Famous remarks like -"We are not pleased"..... and the like.

There is a problem with this though. There is not any evidence whatsoever of any ancient figure refering to themselves as such, in the the ancient world; furthermore in the middle east, north africa or the mediterranean.

Such use of language is fairly recent not more that 500 years old and originating in northern europe.

So when someone says WE, US, OUR in ancient hebrew texts.... It means exactly that. That this is a conversation between 2 or more individuals.

Other Text to Look at:

Now Various references distinguish the Spirit of God from God.

Gen 1:1-3 -  1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was "#fen-NKJV-2a" - [ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen%201:1-3;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-2a - a ] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, �Let there be light�; and there was light.

It would seem here that God and the Spirit of God are two separate entities.

Some references not only refer to the Spirit, but include a Third Person in God's work. look at the texts below.

Isa 48:16 (read it yourself) This chapter has prophetic significance regarding the coming Messiah (who Christians believe was Jesus)

The truth is that i hate to give these small reference text. When reading the hebrew scriptures, CONTEXT is important. I would prefer that anyone reading this read the entire books of Genesis and Exedous. Things start to fit together and you see more clearly the allusion to a plural God.

Wow..... that was long !!

Okay so I will stop here for now. My next post will attempt to answer in detail the first 14 questions.

This post will form part of the premises used.

Notice these references are from the Law(Torah) and the Prophets (old testament)

Now these are just a handful of references alluding to the plurality of God. There are many more.

Well see you next time then.


Posted By: Shibboleth
Date Posted: 14 August 2009 at 12:33pm
""59.As a Christian, do you agree that out of fairness and honesty you must investigate what Islam says about God, Jesus, including this life and the hereafter?""

Please read my posts under Intrafaith Discussion, Islamic Dialogue and Prophet-Mohammad to answer your following questions.




Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 15 August 2009 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

[Jouberar]it is totally wrong for a christian to go war,                                                                                                         [Akhe Abdullah]Christianity and Fighting.The missionaries say,"But the spirit of Christianity condemns fighting altogether."I do not wish to pause here for investigating the truth,or lack of it,of such a claim.The history of Christianity,however,is a legitamate witness in this matter and so is the history of Islam.From the dawn of Christianity until today every country of the world has been soaked with blood in the name of Jesus Christ.The Romans and the Byzantines of old as well as European peoples of modern times are guilty of shedding blood in religious causes.The Crusades were launched and their fires fanned by Christians,not by Muslims.For hundred of years,one army after another rolled out of Europe in direction of the Muslims Orient to fight,to destroy and to shed blood.In every case,the popes who claimed to be the vicars of Jesus Christ,bleesed and encouraged these armies and hurried them to Jerusalem and other destinations.Were all these popes heretics? Was their Christianity spurious? Or was every one of them a pretender,an ignoramus,unaware that Christianity absolutely condemns fighting?The missionaries rejoin,"Those were the middle Ages,ages f darkness, unfit as evidence agaianst Christianity."If this is an argument on which they pin some hope,let us then turn to "the twentieth century of the highest human civilization."This century has indeed seen the same darkness as did the Middle Ages,Lord Allenby,representing the allied forces of England,France,Italy,Romania,and America,stopped in Jerusalem in 1918 after his conquest of that city toward the end of the first World War and said:"Today the Crusades have come to an end."

Akhe SalaamClap for telling this bible thumper and a schmuck some facts...He is such a hypocrite in ignoring the murderous history of the European Xtian killers, first amongst themselves then the other unarmed non Europeans... What do they smoke down under? Doesn't he know the so called Christianity is nothing but a Eurocentric cult based on cognitive dissonance and lubricated  with booze and sex!


-------------
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 15 August 2009 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by kapalu kapalu wrote:

Greetings:

I will attempt to deal with all 60 questions. However not all at the same time.

I will begin with the first 14 dealing with the nature of God according to the christian view.

Now first remember that Christianity is seen as an extension of Judaism by true Christians.

Now ancient Israel believed that there was only ONE God. Take a look at Deuteronomy 4:35; 6:4, Isaiah 45:5, Zech 14:9.

The new testament makes the same claims. (please take a look at  mark 12:29-32, 1 cor 8:4-6, Eph 4:4-6; 1 Tim 2:5)

However the emphasis on one God does not contradict the Christian concept of the triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

The texts simply affirms that there is no pantheon of various gods or deities.

So then how do Christians arrive to the conclusion that the ONE God is Father Son and Spirit?

Well lets begin in the Torah( Old testament):

Well the Old Testement even though it does not explicitly tech that God is triune, it alludes to a plurality within the Godhead.

Gen 1:26 - Then God said, �Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.�

Gen 3:22 - Then the LORD God said, �Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever�

Gen 11:7 - Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another�s speech.�

So clearly the Prophet Moses is alluding to the plurality of God. Why someone talk to himself and refer to himself as US, OUR, WE.

Now many people would say that this type of language was pretty standard for royalty. For example, Queen victoria or maybe elizabeth 1 (i cant remember right now) was well known for referring to herself in the plural. Famous remarks like -"We are not pleased"..... and the like.

There is a problem with this though. There is not any evidence whatsoever of any ancient figure refering to themselves as such, in the the ancient world; furthermore in the middle east, north africa or the mediterranean.

Such use of language is fairly recent not more that 500 years old and originating in northern europe.

So when someone says WE, US, OUR in ancient hebrew texts.... It means exactly that. That this is a conversation between 2 or more individuals.

Other Text to Look at:

Now Various references distinguish the Spirit of God from God.

Gen 1:1-3 -  1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was #fen-NKJV-2a - [ http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen%201:1-3;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-2a - a ] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
3 Then God said, �Let there be light�; and there was light.

It would seem here that God and the Spirit of God are two separate entities.

Some references not only refer to the Spirit, but include a Third Person in God's work. look at the texts below.

Isa 48:16 (read it yourself) This chapter has prophetic significance regarding the coming Messiah (who Christians believe was Jesus)

The truth is that i hate to give these small reference text. When reading the hebrew scriptures, CONTEXT is important. I would prefer that anyone reading this read the entire books of Genesis and Exedous. Things start to fit together and you see more clearly the allusion to a plural God.

Wow..... that was long !!

Okay so I will stop here for now. My next post will attempt to answer in detail the first 14 questions.

This post will form part of the premises used.

Notice these references are from the Law(Torah) and the Prophets (old testament)

Now these are just a handful of references alluding to the plurality of God. There are many more.

Well see you next time then.
 
Kapalu,
you have just pointed out some problem areas of the OT text with those quotes, and I remember pointing some of those out here at the forum in the past. They show nothing but furhter inconsistancies of the OT.
 
Hasan


-------------
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62



Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 15 August 2009 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

Many Christians,have attacked the person of Muhammad and attributed to him the most unbecoming epithets there by giving vent to their resentment and sowing the seeds of hatred and hostility.Despite the commonly held view that the Crusades have long been finished and forgotten,fanatic Christian antagonism still continues to rage against Muhammed.The present situation has not changed except for the worse.Moved by the same fanaticism,the missionaries resort to immoral and depraved means in theirstruggle against Islam.(THE LIFE OF MUHAMMED xxxv Haykal)copy right 1976

 

Who ordered the crusades the Pope or Christ the muslims have no back bone thats why always seek refuge by means of the crusade while the muslim were main cause that started the crusade after they raided and stole Jerusalem from the Jews and there excuse for the wrong doing in islam is look at the crusade look what the christians have done, but they are not looking back and seen what the muslims have done no that was right because Allah permited it.

The crusades was wrong and that was not an order God or Christ.

In the eyes of God,Jesus and real christian and in me point of view it is totally wrong for a christian to go war, our war is not against "flesh blood" and the church ministers gave the wrong education to thier members christian must take part in any form of war or even think of murder, war is murder and Jesus said we must not even hate your brother and love those who hate you, war is absolutely taboo for Christians.
The First Principles of the Two Religions:(Haykal) Muslims rejoicing at the victory of Heraclius and his Christian armies was great.Despite the many controversies that had taken place between the followers of Muhammad and those who believed in Jesus,their friendly and fraternal relationships continued to be strong throughout the life of the Prophet.
 
Who was Heraclius he was never mentioned in the bible.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 15 August 2009 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Sign*Reader Sign*Reader wrote:

Originally posted by Akhe Abdullah Akhe Abdullah wrote:

[Jouberar]it is totally wrong for a christian to go war,                                                                                                         [Akhe Abdullah]Christianity and Fighting.The missionaries say,"But the spirit of Christianity condemns fighting altogether."I do not wish to pause here for investigating the truth,or lack of it,of such a claim.The history of Christianity,however,is a legitamate witness in this matter and so is the history of Islam.From the dawn of Christianity until today every country of the world has been soaked with blood in the name of Jesus Christ.The Romans and the Byzantines of old as well as European peoples of modern times are guilty of shedding blood in religious causes.The Crusades were launched and their fires fanned by Christians,not by Muslims.For hundred of years,one army after another rolled out of Europe in direction of the Muslims Orient to fight,to destroy and to shed blood.In every case,the popes who claimed to be the vicars of Jesus Christ,bleesed and encouraged these armies and hurried them to Jerusalem and other destinations.Were all these popes heretics? Was their Christianity spurious? Or was every one of them a pretender,an ignoramus,unaware that Christianity absolutely condemns fighting?The missionaries rejoin,"Those were the middle Ages,ages f darkness, unfit as evidence agaianst Christianity."If this is an argument on which they pin some hope,let us then turn to "the twentieth century of the highest human civilization."This century has indeed seen the same darkness as did the Middle Ages,Lord Allenby,representing the allied forces of England,France,Italy,Romania,and America,stopped in Jerusalem in 1918 after his conquest of that city toward the end of the first World War and said:"Today the Crusades have come to an end."

Akhe SalaamClap for telling this bible thumper and a schmuck some facts...He is such a hypocrite in ignoring the murderous history of the European Xtian killers, first amongst themselves then the other unarmed non Europeans... What do they smoke down under? Doesn't he know the so called Christianity is nothing but a Eurocentric cult based on cognitive dissonance and lubricated  with booze and sex!
 
A sinner is a sinner even they  are Christians but are not real Christians they care less than nothing you can talk them in anyway it easier to confront a satanist than to confront a false Christians.
 
Since the RKC AND THE PROTESTANTS and the church with self apointed leaders had no godly clue what to teach the people that want to be Christians but the bible was top secret only available for the clercy man in the 1500 Jonh Calvin or Jean Cauvin a french  and   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Humanism - humanist lawyer, he broke from the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church - Roman Catholic Church around 1530. After religious tensions provoked a violent uprising against Protestants in France, Calvin fled to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basel - Basel , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland - Switzerland , where in 1536 he published the first edition of his seminal work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutes_of_the_Christian_Religion - Institutes of the Christian Religion .
 
This reformed haven't changed much except for everybody to had access to the bible and study it thoroughly but they haven't practiced it they haven't discovered the seriousness of been a Christian, thats why there were so many wars brother killing brother the world is in a mess it is just getting worse and worse you name it corrupt goverment  to the mafia. 


Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 17 August 2009 at 11:50am
Thank you for proving my point Christianity and Fighting.Why point fingers at Catholic and Protestants they are all Christians.


Posted By: kapalu
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 1:03pm

So Tell me what are those problems?

Sorry I did not get your previous comments.


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 1:07pm
Hi Kapalu,
well some of those prblem areas are as follows:
You quoted: "Gen 3:22 - Then the LORD God said, �Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever�"
The above verse show a God, who is not aware nor confident nor sovereign because He is shown as the insecure one, who seems to be worried with what the man has done and can do by "take also of the tree of life, and live forever."
 
Also, in the same book, Genesis 3, there are some more problems as well. I will address just a couple:16 To the woman HE said,
       "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
       with pain you will give birth to children.
       Your desire will be for your husband,
       and he will rule over you."  
All this because of the blame I hear my kids repeat fortunetely rarely: ' she did it, she started it, no she did it"
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me�she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."

 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
      The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."

More problems: 14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
       "Cursed are you above all the livestock
       and all the wild animals!
       You will crawl on your belly
       and you will eat dust
       all the days of your life.

 15 And I will put enmity
       between you and the woman,
       and between your offspring
and hers;
       he will crush
your head,
       and you will strike his heel."

All of these are just from one page!
Honetly, if you are unable to pick those problems, please let me know and I will go over them one by one. We must not just read over, we must weigh and grasp every word in order to figure things out and eventually benefit from it! if that's our goal, otherwise there seem nothing wrong with anything!
 
We should seek truth, forgiveness, and guidence from God, the All knower.
 
Hasan


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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62



Posted By: IssaEl999
Date Posted: 19 March 2011 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by truthnowcome truthnowcome wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

beleiver,
I am wondering what you are trying to say when you posted Acts 9?
Please elaborate rather than just posting a quote, what are you proving with those verses?
Hasan
 
salaam!

Believer forgot! Paul saw a light and herd a voice! Who voice? I guess he think is Jesus (S) because the voice says so. �And he (Paul) said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2024&version=9 - - Matthew24 :5  

 

Nothing new, believers too do hear voices also...yes he does! How we know? The Ghost does speak to him: "he shall teach you things to come" John16

tnc

 
 
 
 
 The Self Appointed Apostle ,Turn From A Strong Opposer Od Jesus To One Of His Disciples ? That's A Good Question And The Answer Is Simple ! , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , ( Never ) Was A Disciple Of Jesus ! How Do I Know ? According To Paul , '' The Self Appointed Apostle ,Jesus Chose Him As His Instrument For Carrying His Teachings To The Gentiles Who Were Not Of The House Of Israel . ( Acts 9 ; 15 - 16 ) .

The Deceiver Paul Acclaimed Vision Is The Only Evidence The Deceiver Paul Could Produce For His Bid For The Leadership Of The New Church The Deceiver Would Raise . No Wonder The Jews Were Highly Skeptical About The Whole Claim And Would Not Listen To Him . Let's Take A Look In The Bible Where The Deceiver Paul CONTRADICTS HIMSELF THREE TIMES ,

This Is The Behavior Of A LIAR , A LIAR Has To Repeat His LIE Two Or More Times With Each Verse Differing From The Next Until He Ultimately Prove Himself A LIAR . He Eventually Reveals The Truth He Was Trying To Hide All Along .

Contradiction One ;
Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , And I Quote ; 4 And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; 6 but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.


In The Above Quote The Deceiver Paul , First Says The HE Alone Fell To The Ground ( Earth ) And Then He Proceeds To Say That The Men Who Journeyed With Him Stood Speechless , Hearing A Voice , BUT Seeing No Man , We See In Acts 22 ; 7 - 9 That Paul The Deceiver Was About To Be Killed By The People Of The City Of Caesarea For Preaching To The Jews Amongst The GENTILES That They Should Forsake Moses And Not Circumcise Their Children Or Follow Their Customs .

The Deceiver Paul Was Saved By The Soldiers And Centurions Who Took Him To The Castle Unto The Chief Priest And There The Deceiver Paul Says

Contradiction Two ;
Acts 22; 7 - 9 , And I Quote ; 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul arose from the ground; and when his eyes were opened, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Now , In This Quote The Deceiver Paul Say HE Alone Fell To The Ground . He Proceeds To Say That The MEN Who Were With Him SAW The Light , But HEARD Not The Voice Of Him Who Spoke . But He Had Just Said In Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , '' Those Who Journeyed With Him , Heard A Voice , But Saw Not A Man ! ''

We Now Go To Acts 26 ; 13 - 14 To Find The Third Contradiction . At This Point , The Deceiver Paul Is Defending Himself Before King Agrippa ;

Contradiction Three ;
Acts 26 ; 13 - 14 , And I Quote ; 13 At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining round me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It hurts you to kick against the sticks .

The Deceiver Paul Just Said In Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , And 22 ; 7 - 9 That ONLY He Fell To The Ground !!!! After We Listen To The Deceiver Paul Contradictions , It Makes It Very Difficult To Believe That The Deceiver Paul Ever Had A Vision . The Deceiver Paul Is A LIAR And His Own Word Confirm It !!!!! Romans 3 ; 7 , And I Quote ; 7 But if through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

Having The Behavior Of A Liar , As Usual , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Continued To Prove Himself A Liarr . In None Of The Other Quotes Had He Said That Jesus Spoke To Him In The Hebrew Tongue ! However , In The Following Quote , ( Acts 26 ; 16 ) , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Says That Jesus Appeared To Him To Make Him A Minister . Is This Why Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Though He Was Supposed To Be A Disciple ? Acts 26 ; 14 - 16 . ......



-------------
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .



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