Was muhammad's family pagans or muslims?.
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Topic: Was muhammad's family pagans or muslims?.
Posted By: owen.grandison
Subject: Was muhammad's family pagans or muslims?.
Date Posted: 04 March 2009 at 2:35pm
His family were pagans or mushrikiyn before he ever claimed to be a prophet of your god, allah!
Look at the facts, if muhammad was born in 570 A.D. and didn't proclaim his mission, until the age 40, in 610 A.D., when he was forty years old, so his family couldn't have possibly had been muslims! The quraysh's main idol in mecca, at that timwe was allat or allah, - his female counterpart. Thus allah was not coined by muhammad. You can find many examples of the proper name in pre-islamic literature. This word was used amongst the pagan arabs. So muhammad wanted to make his clan's idol, allat or allah the greatest or biggest deity; as you muhammadans say "allah or allat akbar!" (also refer to qur'aan 71:23)
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Replies:
Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 04 March 2009 at 8:11pm
The bigest idols were Latta and Uzza. The Latta in arabic Al-Latta and the Uzza in arabic is Al-Uzza. Article "THE" in arabic is "AL". So the word Allah is nothing to do with Latta.
------------- Salam/Peace,
Semar
"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)
"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Posted By: owen.grandison
Date Posted: 05 March 2009 at 5:16am
semar wrote:
The bigest idols were Latta and Uzza. The Latta in arabic Al-Latta and the Uzza in arabic is Al-Uzza. Article "THE" in arabic is "AL". So the word Allah is nothing to do with Latta. |
Qur'aan 53:19-20 "HAVE YE SEEN ALLAT, AND UZZA, AND ANOTHER, THE THIRD (GODDESS), MANAT?"
The so-called pagan arabs thought these deities to be the daughters of "god". Every tribe in arabia seemed to have their own deity. These are the names of some of the tribes and the idols they worshipped:
tribes of thaqif and quraish-worshipped Al Lat tribes of ghatafan-worshipped Al Uzza tribes of hudhail and khuza'a thaqif-worshipped manat tribe of kalb-worshipped wadd tribe of hamdan-worshipped suwa tribe of majhhij-worshipped ya'uq tribe of himyar-worshipped nasr
Thus the arabs took on names which classified them servants of these deities, whome they thought to be their intercessors before "god". For example:
Abd Uzza-servant of Al Uzza Abd Wadd-servant of Wadd Abd Yaghuth-servant of Yaghuth Abd Al Lat-servant of Al Lat
Pay attention to the name of the last "deity," on the list above which is "Abd Al Lat" or "Abdul-Lah." Muhammad's father's name, was "Abdullah (T)" or "servant of Al Lat." The name abdullah could not have meant "servant of allah," because according to you , muhammad, was the one who founded islam, and allah had not revealed the qur'aan and his glorious name, Allah before that. You teach that it was Jehovah which is found in the torah. Now, you may want to deny that muhammad's family, the tribe of the quraysh, were not servants of deities. here is an excerpt which verifies this:
"Al lat was worshipped by (the tribe of) taqif in at-taif. Others say that she was to be found in (the valley of) nakhla (near mecca), where (the tribe of) quraish worshipped her." "Islam, the qur'an and its exegisis". Helmut gatje, university of california press, california, 1976 A.D., page 141
Another question i want to ask you is this, how is it that the following names of deities coincide with the names of allah found in the qur'aan:
Al Lat - Allah (qur'aan 112:1) Al Uzza - Al Azizu, the 8th attribute (qur'aan 14:4)
There are also more hadiths which speak about t he female pagan idol, called Al Lat which was worshipped by the quraysh tribe:
"Abu hurairah reported rasulullah as saying: Whoever (inattentively) swears by ALLAT and Al Uzza, let him say there is no god but allah. And whoever "inattentively" says to a companion of him: "come and gamble with me" let him pay a charity."
"Saad ibn abi waqqas said: "I once swore by allat and al uzza whereupon my companions rebuked me saying: What a grave thing you have done and what an obscenity you have uttered." Then i mentioned that to rasullullah and he said: "Say there is no god but ALLAH. he is alone and has no partner, his is the kingdom and due to him is gratitued, he has the power over all things, then exhale to your left side three times and seek refuge in allah from satan, and never utter such obscenity again."
Translation from "the commentary of the glorious qur'an", by ibn kathir, page 203
The orthodox sunni muslims published the following qur'aans with different spellings for this same word Allat, ask yourself why?
The glorious koran, marmaduke pickthall, muslim world league, new york, 1977 A.D.
The holy qur'an abdullah yusuf ali, new and revised edition, amana corporation, 1989 A.D.
The holy qur'an, abdullah yusuf ali, mcgregor & werner, Inc., 1946 A.D. an all arabic qur'aan
The so-called pagan arabs wanted to keep this idol alive and have succeeded with the help of the orthodox sunni muslims who want you to worship Allat. The elite of your scholars know that, not the average muhammadan. If you look in their books or magazines, you will see that the name allah has been distored.
In reality the name is ALLAT, NOT ALLAH. They deceive you into worshipping a so-called pagan god! Because they add the two dots, (Taa Marbuta) which denotes the feminine form. Be careful do not fall for their pagan traditions anymore. How could the arabs before muhammad's time serve a deity called Al Lat, if there were no dots, during that time. Be careful when you recite the phrase:
Allah Ta'aala (Allah the most exalted)
Do not say it like they do:
Allat 'Aala (Allat the most high)
They are here to show you the ways of the disagreeable one!
Many other members of muhammad's family had so-called pagan names, besides his father. It was custom to exalt and push your deity to the forefront, and thus whosoever tribe was in power, their deity became the sole, great deity. Therefore when the quraysh became the gatekeepers of mecca, they and every other clan showed respect to this deity. His cousin was called Abd Allah (t) Ben Jahsh. His uncle was named after Uzza, (qur'aan 53:19), and i quote, "Have ye seen Lat, and 'Uzza." Uzza was another name for Aset or Isis. So the pre-islamic arabs worshipped egyptian deities! One of muhammad's brothers was Ubaydallat who eventually migrated to ethiopia and became a christian. What happened, why couldn't muhaamad convince his own cousin to remain a muslim? Why did he become an apostate? His uncle abu taalib, died a pagan and never converted to muhamamds's so-called religion. Obviously, he knew something you muhammadans don't! Muhammad's future father-in-law, umar ibn khattab had two sons name Abdullat and Ubaydallat, before islam as well!
Not only this, the arabs, jews and the christians got their possesive prononuns from my ancient ancestors-the ancient tama-reans as well.
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Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 05 March 2009 at 11:22am
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/3_pagan_gods.htm - http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/3_pagan_gods.htm
Lat, Manat, and Al-Uzza
By Sami Zaatari
One common argument or claim put forth by Christians today is that the Quran claims That Allah has 3 daughters, those daughters being the pagan godesses of Lat, Manat, and Al-Uzza. Such a claim is very strong indeed, but is there any truth behind this claim? Does the Quran actually state that Allah has three daughters?
To back this claim up, the Christians often quote one Quranic passage, and then think they have proven their point, let us quote this passage:
053.019 YUSUFALI: Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
053.020 YUSUFALI: And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
Christians love to quote these two verses and then stop, the question we must ask such Christians is why do they stop there?
Is their holy spirit too afraid to quote the rest of the passages?
Since Christians claim to be inspired by the holy spirit then what is the holy spirit hiding here? Let us now quote the rest of the passages:
053.021 YUSUFALI: What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?
053.022
YUSUFALI: Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
053.023
YUSUFALI: These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!
So had the Christians care to carry on, they would see that Allah exposes them making such a lie! Allah tells them that they the pagans have invented these false idols, and that it is something corrupt.
We must ask why do Christians not quote the rest? In fact I will not hold the Christians responsible for such deceit, but I will hold the holy spirit responsible. Christians claim the holy spirit inspires them, if that is true then the holy spirit is inspiring them to be untruthful, and to be distorters of truth, and to try and make up a lie. And such actions cannot be coming from a holy being, rather such action is inspired by someone called Iblis, who is shaytan, because only shaytan inspires people to make a lie against Allah and his Noble Quran.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/expose_lies.htm - Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/islam_quran.htm - Islam and the Noble Quran - Questions and Answers.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/contra.htm - Contradictions and History of Corruption in the Bible.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/index.html - Sami Zaatari's Rebuttals section.
------------- Salam/Peace,
Semar
"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)
"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Posted By: owen.grandison
Date Posted: 05 March 2009 at 11:46pm
semar wrote:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/3_pagan_gods.htm - http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/3_pagan_gods.htm
Lat, Manat, and Al-Uzza
By Sami Zaatari
One common argument or claim put forth by Christians today is that the Quran claims That Allah has 3 daughters, those daughters being the pagan godesses of Lat, Manat, and Al-Uzza. Such a claim is very strong indeed, but is there any truth behind this claim? Does the Quran actually state that Allah has three daughters?
To back this claim up, the Christians often quote one Quranic passage, and then think they have proven their point, let us quote this passage:
053.019 YUSUFALI: Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,
053.020 YUSUFALI: And another, the third (goddess), Manat?
Christians love to quote these two verses and then stop, the question we must ask such Christians is why do they stop there?
Is their holy spirit too afraid to quote the rest of the passages?
Since Christians claim to be inspired by the holy spirit then what is the holy spirit hiding here? Let us now quote the rest of the passages:
053.021 YUSUFALI: What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?
053.022
YUSUFALI: Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!
053.023
YUSUFALI: These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!
So had the Christians care to carry on, they would see that Allah exposes them making such a lie! Allah tells them that they the pagans have invented these false idols, and that it is something corrupt.
We must ask why do Christians not quote the rest? In fact I will not hold the Christians responsible for such deceit, but I will hold the holy spirit responsible. Christians claim the holy spirit inspires them, if that is true then the holy spirit is inspiring them to be untruthful, and to be distorters of truth, and to try and make up a lie. And such actions cannot be coming from a holy being, rather such action is inspired by someone called Iblis, who is shaytan, because only shaytan inspires people to make a lie against Allah and his Noble Quran.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/expose_lies.htm - Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/islam_quran.htm - Islam and the Noble Quran - Questions and Answers.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/contra.htm - Contradictions and History of Corruption in the Bible.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/index.html - Sami Zaatari's Rebuttals section. |
I noticed you never addressed the point about his fathers name and him being a pagan. Where muhaamad's ancestors pagans as well?'
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Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 09 March 2009 at 4:09pm
owen.grandison wrote:
His family were pagans or mushrikiyn before he ever claimed to be a prophet of your god, allah!
Look at the facts, if muhammad was born in 570 A.D. and didn't proclaim his mission, until the age 40, in 610 A.D., when he was forty years old, so his family couldn't have possibly had been muslims! The quraysh's main idol in mecca, at that timwe was allat or allah, - his female counterpart. Thus allah was not coined by muhammad. You can find many examples of the proper name in pre-islamic literature. This word was used amongst the pagan arabs. So muhammad wanted to make his clan's idol, allat or allah the greatest or biggest deity; as you muhammadans say "allah or allat akbar!" (also refer to qur'aan 71:23)
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To owen.grandison
It is the accepted belief of the Shi'a Ithna-Asheris,
the Hanafis, and the Shafi'is that the ancestors of the Holy Prophet from
'Abdullah to Qidar ibn Isma'il, and from there right up to Adam, were true
believers. They believed in the One and Only God and faithfully followed the
Divine religion of their times. From Qidar to 'Abdullah, all of them followed
the Shari'ah of Prophet Ibrahim
(a.s.), which was the religion prescribed for them by God.
The famous Sunni scholar Imam Jalaluddin as-Suyuti has
written nine books on this subject and has proved beyond doubt that all the
ancestors of the Holy Prophet were true believers. Shaykh 'Abdul-Haqq
Muhaddith Dehlawi has written: "All the ancestors of the Holy Prophet from
Adam up to 'Abdullah were pure and clean from the uncleanness of disbelief and
paganism. It was not possible for Allah to put that Holy Light (of the Holy
Prophet) into dark and dirty places, i.e. the loin of a pagan man or the womb
of a pagan woman. Also, how could it be possible for Allah to punish the
ancestors of the Holy Prophet on the Day of judgement and thus humiliate him in
the eyes of the world?"
The Holy Prophet himself has said: "I was always being
transferred from the loins of the clean ones to the wombs of the clean
ones."
'Allamah al-Majlisi has written that it is the
unanimous belief of Shi'a scholars that the father, mother and all ancestors of
the Holy Prophet followed the true religion, and his Light never entered into
the loin of any pagan man or the womb of any pagan woman. Also, the accepted
traditions say that all his ancestors were "Siddiqun" (Truthful
Ones): They were either prophets or successors of prophets.
After Isma'il, all his ancestors were successors of Isma'il
(a.s.). Other traditions specify that 'Abdul-Muttalib was a "Hujjat
(Proof) of Allah and that Abu Talib was his successor."
Amirul-Mu'minin 'Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s.) said:
"By Allah, neither my father ever worshipped the idols, nor my grandfather
'Abdul-Muttalib, nor his father Hashim, nor his father 'Abd Munaf. They
prayed facing towards the Ka'bah and followed the religion of Ibrahim."
If you look again at the preceding life-sketches of
some of the ancestors of the Holy Prophet, you will find that many traditions established
by them are now included into the tenets of Islam. Qusayi started the night-stay
at Mash'arul-Haram during the hajj,
and Allah kept that system in Islam. Can anybody think that Allah would
confirm a religious rite established by a pagan?
Likewise, as we have seen the customs established by 'Abdul-Muttalib
were adopted in Islam. Could Allah glorify 'Abdul-Muttalib if he were a
pagan?
Also, read again the events of the discovery of Zamzam and
the appearance of the well in the desert. Read again the events of 'Amul-Fil,
and see the firm conviction that Allah would surely save His House. That
statement, repeated several times, shows that 'Abdul-Muttalib knew what
was going to happen. Why was he so sure? There can only be one explanation: He
was informed by Allah. And this, in turn, proves the earlier statement that he
was a "Hujjat" of Allah.
In all these events and narrations, he is always seen
praying to Allah, and there is no hint from any quarter that he ever prayed to
the idols of Quraish (to Hubal, Lat or 'Uzza). When he finds Zamzam, he
exclaims "Allahu Akbar!" When he emphasizes anything, he swears by
the name of Allah. When he stakes his claim, he says that Allah gave it to him.
What further proof is needed to show that it was a family of True Believers?
The Holy Prophet said: "Jibril (Gabriel) said to me: 'I
searched the east and the west of the earth, but I did not find anyone superior
to Muhammad; and I searched the east and the west of the earth, but I did not
find the children of any father better than the children of Hashim."
Also, the Holy Prophet said: "Verily, Allah chose
Kinanah from the children of Isma'il, and He selected Quraish from Kinanah and
chose the children of Hashim from the Quraish, and selected me from the
children of Hashim."
'Abdullah
When, at the discovery of Zamzam, 'Abdul-Muttalib
encountered the enmity of Quraish, he was quite worried because he had only one
son to help him. He, therefore, prayed to Allah, making a nadhr (vow) that if
Allah gave him ten sons to help him against his enemies, he would sacrifice one
of them to please Allah. His prayer was granted, and Allah gave him twelve
sons, out of whom five are famous in the Islamic history: 'Abdullah, Abu Talib,
Hamza, 'Abbas and Abu Lahab. The other seven were: Harith (already mentioned),
Zubayr, Ghaydaq, Muqawwim, Dharar, Qutham., and Hijl (or Mughira). He had six
daughters: 'Atikah, Umaymah, Baydha', Barrah, Safiyyah, and Arwi.
When
ten sons were born, 'Abdul-Muttalib decided to sacrifice one of them
according to his nadhr. Lot was cast and 'Abdullah's name came out. 'Abdullah
was the dearest to him, but he did not flinch from the decision of the fate. He
took 'Abdullah's hands and started towards the place where sacrifices were
offered. His daughters started crying and begged him to sacrifice ten camels in
place of 'Abdullah. At first 'Abdul-Muttalib refused. But when the
pressure of the whole family (and in fact, the whole tribe) mounted, he agreed
to cast lot between 'Abdullah and ten camels. Again the name of 'Abdullah came
out. On the suggestion of the people, the number of the camels was increased to
twenty, again, the same result. Repeatedly, the number was increased to thirty,
forty, fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty and ninety. But the result was always the
same. At last the lot was cast between 100 camels and 'Abdullah. Now the lot
came out for the camels. The family was jubilant, but 'Abdul Muttalib was not
satisfied. He said: "Ten times the name of 'Abdullah has come out. It is
not fair to ignore those lots just for one lot." Three times more, he
repeated the lot between Abdullah and 100 camels, and every time the lot came
out for the camels. Then he sacrificed the camels and the life of 'Abdullah was
saved.
It was to this incident that the Holy Prophet referred when
he said: "I am the son of the two sacrifices." He meant the
sacrifices of Isma'iI and 'Abdullah.
The name of the mother of 'Abdullah was Fatimah, daughter of
'Amr ibn `Aidh ibn 'Amr ibn Makhzum. She was also the mother of Abu Talib,
Zubayr, Baydha', Umaymah, Barra and 'Atikah.
A year before "the year of the elephant,"
'Abdullah was married to Aminah daughter of Wahb ibn 'Abd Munaf ibn Zuhrah ibn
Kilab. In that very gathering, 'Abdul-Muttalib married Hala, daughter of
Wuhaib, i.e. cousin of Aminah. Hala gave birth to Hamza, and Thawbiyah, the
slave-girl of Abu-Lahab, breast-fed him. She also gave her
milk to the Holy Prophet for some time. Thus, Hamza was the uncle of the Holy
Prophet and also his cousin as well as foster brother. Various traditions put
the age of 'Abdullah at the time of his marriage at 17, 24 or 27 years.
'Abdullah went with a trade caravan to Syria. While
returning, he fell ill and stayed at Yathrib (Medina). When 'Abdul-Muttalib
sent Harith to look after him and bring him back, he had already passed away.
'Abdullah was buried in Yathrib. The Wahhabis walled up his grave and nobody
was allowed to visit it. Then, in the 1970s the Wahhabis dug up his body
together with those of 7 companions of the Prophet (s.a.w.a.) and buried them
somewhere else under the pretext of extending the Mosque.
'Abdullah had left some camels, goats, and a slave-girl,
Ummu Ayman. The Holy Prophet got it all as his inheritance.
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Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 09 March 2009 at 4:23pm
owen.grandison wrote:
semar wrote:
The bigest idols were Latta and Uzza. The Latta in arabic Al-Latta and the Uzza in arabic is Al-Uzza. Article "THE" in arabic is "AL". So the word Allah is nothing to do with Latta. |
Qur'aan 53:19-20 "HAVE YE SEEN ALLAT, AND UZZA, AND ANOTHER, THE THIRD (GODDESS), MANAT?"
The so-called pagan arabs thought these deities to be the daughters of "god". Every tribe in arabia seemed to have their own deity. These are the names of some of the tribes and the idols they worshipped:
tribes of thaqif and quraish-worshipped Al Lat tribes of ghatafan-worshipped Al Uzza tribes of hudhail and khuza'a thaqif-worshipped manat tribe of kalb-worshipped wadd tribe of hamdan-worshipped suwa tribe of majhhij-worshipped ya'uq tribe of himyar-worshipped nasr
Thus the arabs took on names which classified them servants of these deities, whome they thought to be their intercessors before "god". For example:
Abd Uzza-servant of Al Uzza Abd Wadd-servant of Wadd Abd Yaghuth-servant of Yaghuth Abd Al Lat-servant of Al Lat
Pay attention to the name of the last "deity," on the list above which is "Abd Al Lat" or "Abdul-Lah." Muhammad's father's name, was "Abdullah (T)" or "servant of Al Lat." The name abdullah could not have meant "servant of allah," because according to you , muhammad, was the one who founded islam, and allah had not revealed the qur'aan and his glorious name, Allah before that. You teach that it was Jehovah which is found in the torah. Now, you may want to deny that muhammad's family, the tribe of the quraysh, were not servants of deities. here is an excerpt which verifies this:
"Al lat was worshipped by (the tribe of) taqif in at-taif. Others say that she was to be found in (the valley of) nakhla (near mecca), where (the tribe of) quraish worshipped her." "Islam, the qur'an and its exegisis". Helmut gatje, university of california press, california, 1976 A.D., page 141
Another question i want to ask you is this, how is it that the following names of deities coincide with the names of allah found in the qur'aan:
Al Lat - Allah (qur'aan 112:1) Al Uzza - Al Azizu, the 8th attribute (qur'aan 14:4)
There are also more hadiths which speak about t he female pagan idol, called Al Lat which was worshipped by the quraysh tribe:
"Abu hurairah reported rasulullah as saying: Whoever (inattentively) swears by ALLAT and Al Uzza, let him say there is no god but allah. And whoever "inattentively" says to a companion of him: "come and gamble with me" let him pay a charity."
"Saad ibn abi waqqas said: "I once swore by allat and al uzza whereupon my companions rebuked me saying: What a grave thing you have done and what an obscenity you have uttered." Then i mentioned that to rasullullah and he said: "Say there is no god but ALLAH. he is alone and has no partner, his is the kingdom and due to him is gratitued, he has the power over all things, then exhale to your left side three times and seek refuge in allah from satan, and never utter such obscenity again."
Translation from "the commentary of the glorious qur'an", by ibn kathir, page 203
The orthodox sunni muslims published the following qur'aans with different spellings for this same word Allat, ask yourself why?
The glorious koran, marmaduke pickthall, muslim world league, new york, 1977 A.D.
The holy qur'an abdullah yusuf ali, new and revised edition, amana corporation, 1989 A.D.
The holy qur'an, abdullah yusuf ali, mcgregor & werner, Inc., 1946 A.D. an all arabic qur'aan
The so-called pagan arabs wanted to keep this idol alive and have succeeded with the help of the orthodox sunni muslims who want you to worship Allat. The elite of your scholars know that, not the average muhammadan. If you look in their books or magazines, you will see that the name allah has been distored.
In reality the name is ALLAT, NOT ALLAH. They deceive you into worshipping a so-called pagan god! Because they add the two dots, (Taa Marbuta) which denotes the feminine form. Be careful do not fall for their pagan traditions anymore. How could the arabs before muhammad's time serve a deity called Al Lat, if there were no dots, during that time. Be careful when you recite the phrase:
Allah Ta'aala (Allah the most exalted)
Do not say it like they do:
Allat 'Aala (Allat the most high)
They are here to show you the ways of the disagreeable one!
Many other members of muhammad's family had so-called pagan names, besides his father. It was custom to exalt and push your deity to the forefront, and thus whosoever tribe was in power, their deity became the sole, great deity. Therefore when the quraysh became the gatekeepers of mecca, they and every other clan showed respect to this deity. His cousin was called Abd Allah (t) Ben Jahsh. His uncle was named after Uzza, (qur'aan 53:19), and i quote, "Have ye seen Lat, and 'Uzza." Uzza was another name for Aset or Isis. So the pre-islamic arabs worshipped egyptian deities! One of muhammad's brothers was Ubaydallat who eventually migrated to ethiopia and became a christian. What happened, why couldn't muhaamad convince his own cousin to remain a muslim? Why did he become an apostate? His uncle abu taalib, died a pagan and never converted to muhamamds's so-called religion. Obviously, he knew something you muhammadans don't! Muhammad's future father-in-law, umar ibn khattab had two sons name Abdullat and Ubaydallat, before islam as well!
Not only this, the arabs, jews and the christians got their possesive prononuns from my ancient ancestors-the ancient tama-reans as well.
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To owen.grandison
The LIE of the "satanic verses"
fabricated against the Noble Quran! Also, what about satan's temptations to the
Bible's Prophets?
I strongly recommend visiting Islamic Awareness' article
which proves that the entire story of the so-called "satanic
verses" is a lie fabricated by the infidels against
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Please visit:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html . So what about Jesus when he was tempted and led and taken by satan for 40 days?
Was Jesus a liar too?
"At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and
he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild
animals, and angels attended him. (From the NIV Bible,
Mark 1:12-13)"
From
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/temptation -
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/temptation :
Temptation
(1.) Trial; a being put to the test. Thus God "tempted [Gen. 22: 1;
R.V., 'did prove'] Abraham;" and afflictions are said to tempt, i.e., to try,
men (James 1:2, 12; comp. Deut. 8:2), putting their faith and patience to the
test.
(2.) Ordinarily, however, the word means solicitation to that which is
evil, and hence Satan is called "the tempter" (Matt. 4:3). Our Lord was in this
way tempted in the wilderness. That temptation was not internal, but by a real,
active, subtle being. It was not self-sought. It was submitted to as an act of
obedience on his part. "Christ was led, driven. An
unseen personal force bore him
a certain violence is implied in the words"
(Matt. 4:1-11). The scene of the temptation of our Lord is generally supposed to
have been the mountain of Quarantania (q.v.), "a high and precipitous wall of
rock, 1,200 or 1,500 feet above the plain west of Jordan, near Jericho."
Temptation is common to all (Dan. 12:10; Zech. 13:9; Ps. 66:10; Luke 22:31, 40;
Heb. 11:17; James 1:12; 1 Pet. 1:7; 4:12). We read of the temptation of Joseph
(Gen. 39), of David (2 Sam. 24; 1 Chr. 21), of Hezekiah (2 Chr. 32:31), of
Daniel (Dan. 6), etc. So long as we are in this world we are exposed to
temptations, and need ever to be on our watch against them.
Even the Holy Spirit couldn't prevent satan from tempting Jesus:
"Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit,
returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for
forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and
at the end of them he was hungry. (From the NIV Bible,
Luke 4:1-2)"
Jesus SUFFERED when he was tempted by satan:
Hebrews 2
17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in
every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to
God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to
help those who are being tempted.
So apparently, Jesus had second thoughts about GOD Almighty in
the New Testament!
Also, during those
40 days that Jesus was tempted and controlled by satan in "suffering", did
he utter nonsense from his mouth?
In other words, did
he speak Revelations, or satan's garbage?
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Posted By: owen.grandison
Date Posted: 10 March 2009 at 4:24pm
According to "Glimpses of islamic history," by irfan faqih he said this:
"The arabs of the jahiliya period also had certain vices and moral degradations deeply rooted in their social fabric. During this dark age the firmament of arabia was over-clouded with arrogance, injuustic, intransigence, vice and superstition. The position of women was very precarious. They were regarded as mere chattels and commodities. They possessed no rights. The birth of a daughter would turn the face of a father pale with grief and displeasure. Sometimes the father buried her alive to get rid of the shame. Polygamy and polyandry both were prevalent among the pagan arabs. It was a permissive society with unrestricted polygamy and free and undisguised concubinage. Sometimes even married women were granted permission by their husbands to have sexual relations with other men for the sake of offspring. Step-mothers married to their sons who inherited them along with other estates after the death of their father. Slavery was a most common practice and deeply rooted institution. The slaves werer treated in a very savage and inhumane manner, and their lot was even more miserable than that of their fellow bondsmen in other parts of the contemporary world... The pagan arabs were so superstitious that they would undertake any work without consulting the oracles. Social inequality, exploitation, injustice, persecution, drinking, gambling, looting and plundering were rampant."
Talking about arrogance, look at qadhafi, and saddam hussein! They got bombed, citizens of saddam were starving to death, babies and others couldn't get any medicine, sanctions on common things like sugar and a cup of orange juice, which can cost up to $83.25 in iraq the last time i checked, and these leaders wouldn't yield! Injustice. Look at the millions of people who were murdered based on heresy or dislike by people like ayatollah khomeini, the dynasties, khalifahs, etc. Since islam has spreaded its religion with the sword! Women in the islamic world still don't have any rights, and they are worse off than women in the so-called period of ignorance! Khadiyjah, muhammad's first wife was living during the jaahiliyah period and owned businesses! Look at hind bint utbah, she was a warrior in battle! Even mr. faqih admitted that both polygamy and polyandry was popular! That means women and men both had several husbands and wives, not just polygymy which hugely benefits men today as in the islamic world! Muslim women will get burned, beaten and hurt if they refuse to be none other than a house wife! So let's set the record straight things were way better during the jaahiliyah period than now in the islamic and arab world! As for killing the girl infants, that was just a small fraction of arabs who hade done that! It wasn't prevalent as the qur'aan 81:8-9 and muhammadans try to imply! Even today there are huge on-going celebrations for boys compared to the downgrading attitude shown towards the girls when they are born. As for slavery, it is still widely practied in the islamic world and most of the slaves are still treated in a sub-human manner! So nothing has changed for the better it just got worse!
He concludes by saying this about islam and the pagan arabs on page 10, and i quote:
"It was a society of people given to such strange ideas and practices and in a country so markedly different in its physical aspect that of islam (peace and blessings of allah be upon him) was born. To conclude in the words of francesco gabrieli: "such a romantic consideration cannot however ignore the fundamental fact that islam, drawing its energies from the soil of pagan arabism but enriching it with decisive elements foreign to it, put an end to a period which was called with reason 'barbarism' (this is better than the age of ignorance which is the translation usually given to the term jahiliya), and put the arabs on the road to civilization with a new and lofty concept of the divine, a society and a state shaped by it."
So mr irfan faqih as a muslim admits, islam its base and foundation and energies are paganistic and to make up and enrich it, the formulators of this new religion borrowed so much stuff from others to make a jump into civilization!
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Posted By: owen.grandison
Date Posted: 10 March 2009 at 5:04pm
The messiah jesus is mentioned many times in the qur'aan thanks to christianity influence on muhammad. The prophet muhammad is mentioned five times by his name (qur'aan 3:144, 33:40, 47:2, 61:). The qur'aan brings out the extraordinary qualities of the messiah jesus more so than the prophet muhammad. Thats something you muhammadans should seriously think about. The messiah jesus is glorified in the qur'aan more than any other prophet. He is mention in 15 chapters. One of the more common titles for the messiah jesus is "son of mary, or isa ibn maryam.
2:87, 5:49, 5:119, 2:253, 5:81, 19:34, 3:45, 5:113, 33:7, 4:157, 5:115, 57:27, 4:171, 5:117, 61:6
Once as "the sign of the hour" ilmus saa'ati: 43:61
Eleven times as rasuwl, "one sent"
2:87, 2:253, 3:49, 3:52-53, 4:157, 4:171, 5:78, 5:114, 57:27, 61:6
The messiah jesus is mentioned in the qur'aan nine times named in conjunction with other prophets:
2:136, 33:7, 3:84, 42:13, 4:163, 57:26-27, 5:81, 6:85
The messiah jesus is mentioned as isa "saviour" in the qur'aan 10 times:
2:136, 4:163, 3:51, 6:85, 3:54, 42:13, 3:59, 19:34, 3:84, 43:63
The messiah jesus occurs in connection with ar ruwhu, "the soul" as often as five times in the qur'aan:
2:87, 2:253, 5:110, 4:171, 21:91
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "a witness" shahiydaan in the qur'aan twice:
4:159, 5:120
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "blessed" mubaarakaan in the qur'aan once: 19:31
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "illustrious" wajiyhaan in the qur'aan once: 3:45
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "a sign" ayat in the qur'aan four times:
3:48, 19:21, 21:91, 23:50
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "mercy" rahmataan in the qur'aan once: 19:21
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "a statement of the truth" qawlal haqqi: 19:34
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "of those near to allah" min al muqarrabiyna once in the qur'aan: 3:45
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "of the righteous" min as salihiyna once in the qur'aan: 3:45
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "an example" mathal in the qur'aan twice: 43:57, 43:59
the messiah jesus is mentioned as al masiyh the messiah 11 times in the qur'aan: 3:45, 4:157, 4:171, 4:172, 5:19 (twice), 5:75 (twice), 5:78, 9:30, 9:31
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "slave" abd three times in the qur'aan: 4:172, 19:30, 43:59
The messiah jesus is mentioned once as "a prophet" nabiyyaan: 19:30
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "a word " kalima in the qur'aan twice:
3:45, 4:171
The messiah jesus is mentioned "as be and he became" kuwn fayakuwn in the qur'aan once: 3:59
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "her son" ibnahaa in the qur'aan once: 21:91
The prophet abraham along with jesus who had nothing to do with founding of the religion islam is just as exalted as the messiah jesus to create a link between them and muhammad. The prophet abraham brought zakaat, "alms", qurbaan, "sacrifice", hajj, "pilgrimage", dress and then truth and faith came through the messiah jesus (john 14:6, who is really haru or tammuz); who was born of the word of allah according to your qur'aan. The prophet muhammad did not establish these principles of islam, they all came from a man you are calling abraham who worshipped the deity baal and the nlater the most high when he was introduced by melchizedek to anu elyown elyown el (genesis 14:18, 19) and i quote: "And melchizedek king of salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high god. And he blessed him and said blessed be abram of the most high god possesor of heaven and earth." The prophet muhamad was instructed to follow "millat ibraahiym", or the "religion or rites of abraham" which is mentioned in the qur'aan.
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Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 10 March 2009 at 5:56pm
Dear Owen,
Yes, we, Muslim respect Prophet Jesus very much, we put him in very high position as prophet and as human being. We also respect his mother as very pious woman, even in the Quran there is a surah named by her name. The verses that you listed above clarify that. So this is the answer for some "ignorant" Christians that think Muslim hate Jesus PBUH.
However, we are sad that our brother and sister peoples of the book (Christians and Jews) unknowingly follow the older version of His books, that already invalidated because the new version, the revised version, with the service packs and patches (borrow Microsoft's term) to fix the corrupted part of the book due to infiltration and elimination had been revealed.
Also noted that even though we put Jesus PBUH and Marry in very high position, we never ever consider them as God or anything similar with that. They were just humans being, God chose Jesus PBUH to deliver His teaching and God chose Marry to deliver Jesus to the earth. But again His teaching via Jesus PBUH, had been revised and renewed with His teaching via Muhammad PBUH.
------------- Salam/Peace,
Semar
"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)
"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 15 March 2009 at 7:37am
Salam owen.gradison
Your statements in bold
According to "Glimpses of islamic history," by irfan faqih he said this:
"The arabs of the jahiliya period also had certain vices and moral degradations deeply rooted in their social fabric. During this dark age the firmament of arabia was over-clouded with arrogance, injuustic, intransigence, vice and superstition. The position of women was very precarious. They were regarded as mere chattels and commodities. They possessed no rights. The birth of a daughter would turn the face of a father pale with grief and displeasure. Sometimes the father buried her alive to get rid of the shame. Polygamy and polyandry both were prevalent among the pagan arabs. It was a permissive society with unrestricted polygamy and free and undisguised concubinage. Sometimes even married women were granted permission by their husbands to have sexual relations with other men for the sake of offspring. Step-mothers married to their sons who inherited them along with other estates after the death of their father. Slavery was a most common practice and deeply rooted institution. The slaves werer treated in a very savage and inhumane manner, and their lot was even more miserable than that of their fellow bondsmen in other parts of the contemporary world... The pagan arabs were so superstitious that they would undertake any work without consulting the oracles. Social inequality, exploitation, injustice, persecution, drinking, gambling, looting and plundering were rampant."
Talking about arrogance, look at qadhafi, and saddam hussein! They got bombed, citizens of saddam were starving to death, babies and others couldn't get any medicine, sanctions on common things like sugar and a cup of orange juice, which can cost up to $83.25 in iraq the last time i checked, and these leaders wouldn't yield! Injustice. Look at the millions of people who were murdered based on heresy or dislike by people like ayatollah khomeini, the dynasties, khalifahs, etc.
So you say that Saddam Hussain etc are bad because the pagans of Saudi Arabia 1500 years ago were bad. A weird assessment. And since Saddam Hussain=bad hence Islam=bad. I don't really want to spend all my time debating with you. I'll just say that if Hitler, Stalin were bad, then can I also blame Christianity? I can name many other Christian dictators and murderers.
Since islam has spreaded its religion with the sword!
Here is a reply copied from http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm - http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm
It is a common complaint among some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force. The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.
1. Islam means peace.
Islam comes from the root word �salaam�, which means peace. It also means submitting one�s will to Allah (swt). Thus Islam is a religion of peace, which is acquired by submitting one�s will to the will of the Supreme Creator, Allah (swt).
2. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace.
Each and every human being in this world is not in favour of maintaining peace and harmony. There are many, who would disrupt it for their own vested interests. Sometimes force has to be used to maintain peace. It is precisely for this reason that we have the police who use force against criminals and anti-social elements to maintain peace in the country. Islam promotes peace. At the same time, Islam exhorts it followers to fight where there is oppression. The fight against oppression may, at times, require the use of force. In Islam force can only be used to promote peace and justice.
3. Opinion of historian De Lacy O�Leary.
The best reply to the misconception that Islam was spread by the sword is given by the noted historian De Lacy O�Leary in the book "Islam at the cross road" (Page 8):
"History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myth that historians have ever repeated."
4. Muslims ruled Spain for 800 years.
Muslims ruled Spain for about 800 years. The Muslims in Spain never used the sword to force the people to convert. Later the Christian Crusaders came to Spain and wiped out the Muslims. There was not a single Muslim in Spain who could openly give the adhan, that is the call for prayers.
5. 14 million Arabs are Coptic Christians.
Muslims were the lords of Arabia for 1400 years. For a few years the British ruled, and for a few years the French ruled. Overall, the Muslims ruled Arabia for 1400 years. Yet today, there are 14 million Arabs who are Coptic Christians i.e. Christians since generations. If the Muslims had used the sword there would not have been a single Arab who would have remained a Christian.
6. More than 80% non-Muslims in India.
The Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years. If they wanted, they had the power of converting each and every non-Muslim of India to Islam. Today more than 80% of the population of India are non-Muslims. All these non-Muslim Indians are bearing witness today that Islam was not spread by the sword.
7. Indonesia and Malaysia.
Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. The majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. May one ask, "Which Muslim army went to Indonesia and Malaysia?"
8. East Coast of Africa.
Similarly, Islam has spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. One may again ask, if Islam was spread by the sword, "Which Muslim army went to the East Coast of Africa?"
9. Thomas Carlyle.
The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book "Heroes and Hero worship", refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: "The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one. In one man�s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and try to propagate with that, will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can."
10. No compulsion in religion.
With which sword was Islam spread? Even if Muslims had it they could not use it to spread Islam because the Qur�an says in the following verse:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error" [Al-Qur�an 2:256]
11. Sword of the Intellect.
It is the sword of intellect. The sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Qur�an says in Surah Nahl, chapter 16 verse 125:
"Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." [Al-Qur�an 16:125]
12. Increase in the world religions from 1934 to 1984.
An article in Reader�s Digest �Almanac�, year book 1986, gave the statistics of the increase of percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in �The Plain Truth� magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, and Christianity had increased only by 47%. May one ask, which war took place in this century which converted millions of people to Islam?
13. Islam is the fastest growing religion in America and Europe.
Today the fastest growing religion in America is Islam. The fastest growing religion in Europe in Islam. Which sword is forcing people in the West to accept Islam in such large numbers?
14. Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson.
Dr. Joseph Adam Pearson rightly says, "People who worry that nuclear weaponry will one day fall in the hands of the Arabs, fail to realize that the Islamic bomb has been dropped already, it fell the day MUHAMMED (pbuh) was born".
Women in the islamic world still don't have any rights, and they are worse off than women in the so-called period of ignorance! Khadiyjah, muhammad's first wife was living during the jaahiliyah period and owned businesses!
If there was 1 wealthy woman in Makkah, that does not mean that the condition of women were great. Here are links of women's rights
http://www.themuslimwoman.com/herrights/womensrights.htm - http://www.themuslimwoman.com/herrights/womensrights.htm
http://www.womeninislam.ws/en/women-right-islam.aspx -
Look at hind bint utbah, she was a warrior in battle!
Hind was taken by the pagans in the battle of Uhad not to fight but to intice men and encourage them to fight. Now I can say for sure that you seriously lack knowledge regarding Islam.
Even mr. faqih admitted that both polygamy and polyandry was popular! That means women and men both had several husbands and wives, not just polygymy which hugely benefits men today as in the islamic world!
For polygamy reply check out http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm - http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm
Muslim women will get burned, beaten and hurt if they refuse to be none other than a house wife!
you sure allege a lot without any proof.
As for killing the girl infants, that was just a small fraction of arabs who hade done that! It wasn't prevalent as the qur'aan 81:8-9 and muhammadans try to imply!
Where do you get your info?antiMuslim tabloids? And what is a muhammadan?
Even today there are huge on-going celebrations for boys compared to the downgrading attitude shown towards the girls when they are born.
There are many people I know who have daughters and were very happy on their birth. And if some people are not happy with daughters, they are going against Islam.
As for slavery, it is still widely practied in the islamic world and most of the slaves are still treated in a sub-human manner! So nothing has changed for the better it just got worse! Again, get rid of those antiMuslim tabloids. I'll just post a link http://www.answering-christianity.com/why_slavery.htm - http://www.answering-christianity.com/why_slavery.htm
He concludes by saying this about islam and the pagan arabs on page 10, and i quote:
"It was a society of people given to such strange ideas and practices and in a country so markedly different in its physical aspect that of islam (peace and blessings of allah be upon him) was born. To conclude in the words of francesco gabrieli: "such a romantic consideration cannot however ignore the fundamental fact that islam, drawing its energies from the soil of pagan arabism but enriching it with decisive elements foreign to it, put an end to a period which was called with reason 'barbarism' (this is better than the age of ignorance which is the translation usually given to the term jahiliya), and put the arabs on the road to civilization with a new and lofty concept of the divine, a society and a state shaped by it."
So mr irfan faqih as a muslim admits, islam its base and foundation and energies are paganistic and to make up and enrich it, the formulators of this new religion borrowed so much stuff from others to make a jump into civilization!
I don't know of anything about Irfan Faqih. But note that he is quoting francesco gabrieli who says that Islam put an end to a period which was called with reason 'barbarism'. We agree with that part (funny thing is that you don't even though you are the one quoting it). But if Franceso Gabrieli, a non-Muslim says that Islam has been derived from Paganism, that does not make it true. And as for Islam borrowing from other civilizations, that claim is just ridiculous. You haven't even provided any evidence for it which I can refute to. The messiah jesus is mentioned many times in the qur'aan thanks to christianity influence on muhammad. Christianity never influenced prophet Muhammad. Again, you provide no proof. The prophet muhammad is mentioned five times by his name (qur'aan 3:144, 33:40, 47:2, 61:). The qur'aan brings out the extraordinary qualities of the messiah jesus more so than the prophet muhammad.Thats something you muhammadans should seriously think about. If Quran praises Jesus, that does not mean that Quran praises Jesus more than prophet Muhammad. And what is a muhammadan? If it means a group of people whose name is Muhammad, then I'm not a muhammadan. I'm Alian :) He is mention in 15 chapters. One of the more common titles for the messiah jesus is "son of mary, or isa ibn maryam.
2:87, 5:49, 5:119, 2:253, 5:81, 19:34, 3:45, 5:113, 33:7, 4:157, 5:115, 57:27, 4:171, 5:117, 61:6
Once as "the sign of the hour" ilmus saa'ati: 43:61
Eleven times as rasuwl, "one sent"
2:87, 2:253, 3:49, 3:52-53, 4:157, 4:171, 5:78, 5:114, 57:27, 61:6
The messiah jesus is mentioned in the qur'aan nine times named in conjunction with other prophets:
2:136, 33:7, 3:84, 42:13, 4:163, 57:26-27, 5:81, 6:85 Yes we do revere Jesus and all prophets of God. The messiah jesus is mentioned as isa "saviour" in the qur'aan 10 times:
2:136, 4:163, 3:51, 6:85, 3:54, 42:13, 3:59, 19:34, 3:84, 43:63 LOL, When did Isa mean saviour? Isa is the name of prophet Jesus in Arabic. The messiah jesus occurs in connection with ar ruwhu, "the soul" as often as five times in the qur'aan:
2:87, 2:253, 5:110, 4:171, 21:91
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "a witness" shahiydaan in the qur'aan twice:
4:159, 5:120
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "blessed" mubaarakaan in the qur'aan once: 19:31
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "illustrious" wajiyhaan in the qur'aan once: 3:45
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "a sign" ayat in the qur'aan four times:
3:48, 19:21, 21:91, 23:50
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "mercy" rahmataan in the qur'aan once: 19:21
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "a statement of the truth" qawlal haqqi: 19:34
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "of those near to allah" min al muqarrabiyna once in the qur'aan: 3:45
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "of the righteous" min as salihiyna once in the qur'aan: 3:45
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "an example" mathal in the qur'aan twice: 43:57, 43:59
the messiah jesus is mentioned as al masiyh the messiah 11 times in the qur'aan: 3:45, 4:157, 4:171, 4:172, 5:19 (twice), 5:75 (twice), 5:78, 9:30, 9:31
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "slave" abd three times in the qur'aan: 4:172, 19:30, 43:59
The messiah jesus is mentioned once as "a prophet" nabiyyaan: 19:30
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "a word " kalima in the qur'aan twice:
3:45, 4:171
The messiah jesus is mentioned "as be and he became" kuwn fayakuwn in the qur'aan once: 3:59
The messiah jesus is mentioned as "her son" ibnahaa in the qur'aan once: 21:91 Again, you prove that we respect Jesus. You're completely right. And while Jesus' name is mentioned 25 times in the Quran, Moses' name is mentioned 167 times. But that does not mean that Moses is better than Jesus or Jesus is better than Moses. We Muslims don't argue about who is better. We respect all prophets. The prophet abraham along with jesus who had nothing to do with founding of the religion islam is just as exalted as the messiah jesus to create a link between them and muhammad. Actually God/Allah founded the religion of Islam and Abraham/Jesus/Muhammad and all the prophets were the messangers of God, not the founders. And your theory is weak and baseless. You give no proof. The prophet abraham brought zakaat, "alms", qurbaan, "sacrifice", hajj, "pilgrimage", dress and then truth and faith came through the messiah jesus (john 14:6, who is really haru or tammuz); who was born of the word of allah according to your qur'aan. The prophet muhammad did not establish these principles of islam, they all came from a man you are calling abraham who worshipped the deity baal and the nlater the most high when he was introduced by melchizedek to anu elyown elyown el (genesis 14:18, 19) Again, no proof. As for Gen 14:18-19, that is not proof for us. We Muslims, along with many historians, don't consider Bible to be authentic. The prophet muhamad was instructed to follow "millat ibraahiym", or the "religion or rites of abraham" which is mentioned in the qur'aan. You gave no reference for millat ibraahim, but luckly I know what you're talking about.
002.135 وَقَالُوا كُونُوا هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَى تَهْتَدُوا قُلْ بَلْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ 002.135 They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."
Al-Qur'an, 002.135 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
We are told here that we should follow Abraham PBUH. That does not mean that we should do those activities which the pagans considered to be of Abraham. You see, their concept of Abraham was not authentic. This verse says that we should follow Abraham as told by the Quran. And the religion of Abraham, Jesus, Moses, Muhammad was Islam. Peace
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Posted By: owen.grandison
Date Posted: 15 March 2009 at 11:16am
The vatican formulated islam
Most of you do not know! However, the higher authority religious people do know and want to keep it a secret!
According to the prophet alberto part six, the crusaders, vol. 17, the vatican desperately wanted jerusalem because of its religious significance, but it was blocked by jews. A number of arabs had become roman catholic, and could be used in reporting information to their leaders in rome. Others used a fifth colum (an underground spy network) to carry out rome's master plan to control the great multitudes of arabs who had completely rejected roman catholicism. Somehow the vatican had to creat a weapon to eliminate both the jews and arabs who refused to accept roman catholicism. When st. augustine appeared on the scene he knew what was going on. Augustine was very powerful and influential man with his own small army of followers. His monasteries served as bases to seek out and destroy bible manuscripts owned by other christians.
The vatican wanted to create a messiah for the arabs someone they could raise up as a great leader, a man with charisma who they could train and eventually unite all the non-catholic arabs behind him [watered down christians - muhammadans or muslims!] creating a might army that would ultimately capture jerusalem for the pope. The saga can be continued on in the prophet alberto part six, the crusaders, vol. 17, on page 19, and it states: "In the vatican briefing, cardinal bea told us this story. A wealthy arabian lady who was a faithful follower of the pope, played a tremendous part in this drama. She was a widow named khadijah. her job was to find a brilliant young man who could be used by the vatican to create a new religion and become the messiah for the children of ishmael. She soon found young muhammad and they were married.
She had given her wealth to "mother church" and retired to a convent. While there she was given a strange assignment and sent back into this world. Khadijah had a cousin named waraquah who like herself was a very faithful roman catholic. He had tremendous influence on muhammad. The vatican had him placed in the critical spot as muhammad's advisor. Rome had found their man and money was no object. Teachers were sent to young muhammad and he underwent intensive training. Muhammaded devoured the works of "saint augustine" under waraquah's teaching and became a devotee of his works. This was preparing him for his great calling."
On page 20, it continues: "under orders from the vatican roman catholic arabs across north africa began spreading the story of a great one who was about to rise up among the people and be the chosen one of their god." When muhammad began receiving his "divine" revelations in a cave in mt. hira not far from the outskirts of mecca... waraquah (the roman catholic cousin of muhammad's wife) became deeply involved interpreting the visions given to muhammad.
And eventually out of all this came forth the "holy" book of islam called the "koran", which contains much of muhammd's writings. Interestingly from an early stage muslims received protection from catholic kings because of muhammad's revelation concerning the virgin mary. But there still remain unpublished works of muhammad... and they are now in the hands of high ranking holy men (ayatollahs) in the islam faith. When cardinal bea shared this with us in the vatican, he said ... these writings are guarded because they contain information that links the vatican to the creation of islam. Both sides have so much information on each other that if exposed it would create such a scandal it would cause a major disaster for both religions. By the time muhammad died the religion of islam was exploding. The nomadic arab tribes were joining forces in the name of allah and his prophet muhammad. In your holy book the koran jesus is regarded as only a prophet. If the pope was his representative on earth then he also must be a prophet of god which cuased the followers of muhammad to fear and respect the pope as another "holy man". The pope moved quickly and issued bulls granting the arab generals permission to invade and conquer the nations of north africa. The vatican helped to finance the building of these massive islam armies in exchange for three special favours:
1. Eliminate the jews, which they called infidels. 2. Protect augustinian monks and the roman catholics 3.Conquer jerusalem for "his holiness" in the vatican
Then on page 22-23 it tells how thet muslim armies never ever attacked not a single catholic or catholic shrine during their conquest. However the arabs became cocky and turned their backs on the pope, and they decided to conquer europe and the pope was furious, because he considered himself the only one who should have temporal power and control of the world! So he raised armies up to hold them back which became the crusades! This excerpt right here makes it very obvious that islam is catholicism's terrorist baby!
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Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 15 March 2009 at 9:53pm
it's a funny story.
------------- Salam/Peace,
Semar
"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)
"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"
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Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 16 March 2009 at 12:14am
Anti-Muslim tabloids:)
Instead of replying to me, you just gave a really nice story. I can quote you and reply but I won't bother. I'll just ask you If Quran was copied from the Bible, why didn't prophet Muhammad also copy all the unfulfilled prophecies, scientific errors, those verses which say prophets commited adultery etc? Following has been copied from http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm - http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm
QUR�AN PLAGIARIZED FROM THE BIBLE :
Question
Is it not true that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has copied the Qur�an from the Bible?
Answer
Many critics allege that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) himself was not the author of the Qur�an but he learnt it and/or plagiarised (copied or adapted) it from other human sources or from previous scriptures or revelations.
1. MUHUMMAD LEARNT THE QUR�AN FROM A ROMAN BLACKSMITH WHO WAS A CHRISTIAN
Some Pagans accused the Prophet of learning the Qur�an from a Roman Blacksmith, who was a Christian staying at the outskirts of Makkah. The Prophet very often used to go and watch him do his work. A revelation of the Qur�an was sufficient to dismiss this charge - the Qur�an says in Surah An-Nahl chapter 16 verse 103:
"We know indeed that they say, �It is a man that teaches him,� The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear." [Al-Qur�an 16:103]
How could a person whose mother tongue was foreign and could hardly speak little but of poor broken Arabic be the source of the Qur�an which is pure, eloquent, fine Arabic? To believe that the blacksmith taught the Prophet the Qur�an is some what similar to believing that a Chinese immigrant to England, who did not know proper English, taught Shakespeare.
2. MUHUMMAD (PBUH) LEARNT FROM WARAQA - THE RELATIVE OF KHADIJAH (RA)
Muhummad�s (pbuh) contacts with the Jewish and Christian Scholars were very limited. The most prominent Christian known to him was an old blind man called Waraqa ibn-Naufal who was a relative of the Prophet�s first wife Khadijah (r.a.). Although of Arab descent, he was a convert to Christianity and was very well versed with the New Testament. The Prophet only met him twice, first when Waraqa was worshipping at the Kaaba (before the Prophetic Mission) and he kissed the Prophet�s forehead affectionately; the second occasion was when the Prophet went to meet Waraqa after receiving the first revelation. Waraqa died three years later and the revelation continued for about 23 years. It is ridiculous to assume that Waraqa was the source of the contents of the Qur�an.
3. PROPHET�S RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS WITH THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS
It is true that the Prophet did have religious discussions with the Jews and Christians but they took place in Madinah more than 13 years after the revelation of the Qur�an had started. The allegation that these Jews and Christians were the source is perverse, since in these discussions Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was performing the roles of a teacher and of a preacher while inviting them to embrace Islam and pointing out that they had deviated from their true teachings of Monotheism. Several of these Jews and Christians later embraced Islam.
4. THE PROPHET LEARNT THE QUR�AN FROM THOSE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS THAT HE MET OUTSIDE ARABIA
All historical records available show that Muhummad (pbuh) had made only three trips outside Makkah before his Prophethood:
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At the age of 9 he accompanied his mother to Madinah.
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Between the age of 9 and 12, he accompanied his uncle Abu-Talib on a business trip to Syria.
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At the age of 25 he led Khadija�s Caravan to Syria.
It is highly imaginary to assume that the Qur�an resulted from the occasional chats and meetings with the Christians or Jews from any of the above three trips.
5. LOGICAL GROUNDS TO PROVE THAT THE PROPHET DID NOT LEARN THE QUR�AN FROM JEWS OR CHRISTIANS
- The day-to-day life of the Prophet was an open book for all to see. In fact a revelation came asking people to give the Prophet (pbuh) privacy in his own home. If the Prophet had been meeting people who told him what to say as a revelation from God, this would not have been hidden for very long.
- The extremely prominent Quraish nobles who followed the Prophet and accepted Islam were wise and intelligent men who would have easily noticed anything suspicious about the way in which the Prophet brought the revelations to them - more so since the Prophetic mission lasted 23 years.
- The enemies of the Prophet kept a close watch on him in order to find proof for their claim that he was a liar - they could not point out even a single instance when the Prophet may have had a secret rendezvous with particular Jews and Christians.
- It is inconceivable that any human author of the Qur�an would have accepted a situation in which he received no credit whatsoever for originating the Qur�an.
Thus, historically and logically it cannot be established that there was a human source for the Qur�an.
6. MUHUMMAD (PBUH) WAS AN ILLITERATE
The theory that Muhummad (pbuh) authored the Qur�an or copied from other sources can be disproved by the single historical fact that he was illiterate.
Allah testifies Himself in the Qur�an In Surah Al-Ankabut chapter no.29 verse 48
"And thou was not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted." [Al-Qur�an 29:48]
Allah (swt) knew that many would doubt the authenticity of the Qur�an and would ascribe it to Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). Therefore Allah in His Divine Wisdom chose the last and final Messenger to be an �Ummi�, i.e. unlettered, so that the talkers of vanity would not then have the slightest justification to doubt the Prophet. The accusation of his enemies that he had copied the Qur�an from other sources and rehashed it all in a beautiful language might have carried some weight, but even this flimsy pretence has been deprived to the unbeliever and the cynic.
Allah reconfirms in the Qur�an in Surah Al A�raf chapter 7 verse 157:
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures) in the Law and the Gospel"
The prophecy of coming of the unlettered Prophet (pbuh) is also mentioned in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12.
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned." [Isaiah 29:12]
The Qur�an testifies in no less than four different places that the Prophet (pbuh) was illiterate. It is also mentioned in Surah A�raf chapter 7 verse 158 and in Surah Al-Jumu�a chapter 62 verse 2.
7. ARABIC VERSION OF THE BIBLE WAS NOT PRESENT
The Arabic version of the Bible was not present at the time of Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). The earliest Arabic version of the Old Testament is that of R. Saadias Gaon of 900 C.E. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved Prophet. The oldest Arabic version of the new Testament was published by Erpenius in 1616 C.E. - about a thousand years after the demise of our Prophet.
8. SIMILARITIES IN THE QUR�AN AND THE BIBLE DUE TO COMMON SOURCE
Similarities between the Qur�an and the Bible does not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal God. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these Judeo-Christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.
It is true that there are some similar parallels between the Qur�an and the Bible but this is not sufficient to accuse Muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the Bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of Christianity and Judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that Jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine Prophet (God forbid) and that he simply copied from the Old Testament.
The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true God and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.
If someone copies during an examination he will surely not write in the answer sheet that he has copied from his neighbour or Mr. XYZ. Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) gave due respect and credit to all the previous prophets (pbut). The Qur�an also mentions the various revelations given by Almighty God to different prophets.
9. MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN THE TAURAH, ZABOOR, INJEEL AND QUR�AN
Four revelations of Allah (swt) are mentioned by name in the Qur�an: the Taurah, the Zaboor, the Injeel and the Qur�an.
Taurah, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Moosa (a. s.) i.e. Moses (pbuh). Zaboor, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Dawood (a.s.) i.e. David (pbuh). Injeel, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Isa (A.S.) ie. Jesus (pbuh). �Al-Qur�an�, the last and final Wahi i.e. revelation given to the last and final Messenger Muhammad (pbuh).
It is an article of faith for every Muslim to believe in all the Prophets of God and all revelations of God. However, the present day Bible has the first five books of the Old Testament attributed to Moses and the Psalms attributed to David. Moreover the New Testament or the four Gospels of the New Testament are not the Taurah, the Zaboor or the Injeel, which the Qur�an refers to. These books of the present day Bible may partly contain the word of God but these books are certainly not the exact, accurate and complete revelations given to the prophets.
The Qur�an presents all the different prophets of Allah as belonging to one single brotherhood; all had a similar prophetic mission and the same basic message. Because of this, the fundamental teachings of the major faiths cannot be contradictory, even if there has been a considerable passage of time between the different prophetic missions, because the source of these missions was one: Almighty God, Allah. This is why the Qur�an says that the differences which exist between various religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore, misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. The Qur�an cannot therefore be seen as a scripture which competes with the teachings of Moses, Jesus and the other prophets. On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.
Another name for the Qur�an is the �The Furqan� which means the criteria to judge the right from the wrong, and it is on the basis of the Qur�an that we can decipher which part of the previous scriptures can be considered to be the word of God.
10. SCIENTIFIC COMPARISON BETWEEN QUR�AN AND BIBLE
If you glance through the Bible and the Qur�an you may find several points which appear to be exactly the same in both of them, but when you analyse them closely, you realise that there is a difference of �chalk and cheese� between them. Only based on historical details it is difficult for someone who is neither conversant with Christianity or Islam to come to a firm decision as to which of the scriptures is true; however if you verify the relevant passages of both the scriptures against scientific knowledge, you will yourself realize the truth.
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Creation of the Universe in Six Days As per the Bible, in the first book of Genesis in Chapter One, the universe was created in six days and each day is defined as a twenty-four hours period. Even though the Qur�an mentions that the universe was created in six �Ayyaams�, �Ayyaam� is the plural of years; this word has two meanings: firstly, it means a standard twenty-four hours period i.e. a day, and secondly, it also means stage, period or epoch which is a very long period of time.
When the Qur�an mentions that the universe was created in six �Ayyaams�, it refers to the creation of the heavens and the earth in six long periods or epochs; scientists have no objection to this statement. The creation of the universe has taken billions of years, which proves false or contradicts the concept of the Bible which states that the creation of the Universe took six days of twenty-four hour durations each.
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Sun Created After the Day The Bible says in chapter 1, verses 3-5, of Genesis that the phenomenon of day and night was created on the first day of creation of the Universe by God. The light circulating in the universe is the result of a complex reaction in the stars; these stars were created according to the Bible (Genesis chapter 1 verse 14 to 19) on the fourth day. It is illogical to mention the result that is the light (the phenomenon of day and night) was created on the first day of Creation when the cause or source of the light was created three days later. Moreover the existence of evening and morning as elements of a single day is only conceivable after the creation of the earth and its rotation around the sun. In contrast with the contents of the Bible on this issue, the Qur�an does not give any unscientific sequence of Creation. Hence it is absolutely absurd to say that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) copied the passages pertaining to the creation of the universe from the Bible but missed out this illogical and fantastic sequence of the Bible.
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Creation of the Sun, The Earth and the Moon According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 9 to 13, the earth was created on the third day, and as per verses 14 to 19, the sun and the moon were created on the fourth day. The earth and the moon emanated, as we know, from their original star, the Sun. Hence to place the creation of the sun and the moon after the creation of the earth is contrary to the established idea about the formation of the solar system.
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Vegetation Created on the third day and Sun on the fourth day According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 11-13, vegetation was created on the third day along with seed-bearing grasses, plants and trees; and further on as per verses 14-19, the sun was created on the fourth day. How is it scientifically possible for the vegetation to have appeared without the presence of the sun, as has been stated in the Bible?
If Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) was indeed the author of the Qur�an and had copied its contents from the Bible, how did he manage to avoid the factual errors that the Bible contains? The Qur�an does not contain any statements which are incompatible with scientific facts.
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The Sun and the Moon both Emit light According to the Bible both the sun and the moon emit their own light. In the Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verse 16 says, "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night".
Science tells us today that the moon does not have its own light. This confirms the Qur�anic concept that the light of the moon is a reflected light. To think that 1400 years ago, Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) corrected these scientific errors in the Bible and then copied such corrected passages in the Qur�an is to think of something impossible.
11. ADAM (PBUH), THE FIRST MAN ON EARTH, LIVED 5,800 YEARS AGO
As per the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Bible, from Jesus through Abraham (pbuh) to the first man on earth i.e. Adam (pbuh), Adam appeared on the earth approximately 5800 years ago:
- 1948 years between Adam (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh)
- Approximately 1800 years between Abraham (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh)
- 2000 years from Jesus (pbuh) till today
These figures are further confused by the fact that the Jewish calendar is currently on or about 5800 years old.
There is sufficient evidence from archaeological and anthropological sources to suggest that the first human being on earth was present tens of thousands of years ago and not merely 5,800 years ago as is suggested by the Bible. The Qur�an too speaks about Adam (pbuh) as the first man on earth but it does not suggest any date or period of his life on earth, unlike the Bible - what the Bible says in this regard is totally incompatible with science.
12. NOAH (PBUH) AND THE FLOOD
The Biblical description of the flood in Genesis chapter 6, 7 and 8 indicates that the deluge was universal and it destroyed every living thing on earth, except those present with Noah (pbuh) in the ark. The description suggests that the event took place 1656 years after the creation of Adam (pbuh) or 292 years before the birth of Abraham, at a time when Noah (pbuh) was 600 years old. Thus the flood may have occurred in the 21st or 22nd Century B.C.
This story of the flood, as given in the Bible, contradicts scientific evidence from archaelogical sources which indicate that the eleventh dynasty in Egypt and the third dynasty in Babylonia were in existence without any break in civilisation and in a manner totally unaffected by any major calamity which may have occurred in the 21st century B.C. This contradicts the Biblical story that the whole world had been immersed in the flood water. In contrast to this, the Qur�anic presentation of the story of Noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the Qur�an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the Qur�an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the Qur�an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of Noah.
It is illogical to assume that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) had borrowed the story of the flood from the Bible and corrected the mistakes before mentioning it in the Qur�an.
13. MOSES (PBUH) AND PHARAOH OF THE EXODUS
The story of Moses (pbuh) and the Pharaoh of the Exodus are very much identical in the Qur�an and the Bible. Both scriptures agree that the Pharaoh drowned when he tried to pursue Moses (pbuh) and led the Israelites across a stretch of water that they crossed. The Qur�an gives an additional piece of information in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 92:
"This day shall We save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" [Al-Qur�an 10:92]
Dr. Maurice Bucaille, after a thorough research proved that although Rameses II was known to have persecuted the Israelites as per the Bible, he actually died while Moses (pbuh) was taking refuge in Median. Rameses II�s son Merneptah who succeeded him as Pharaoh drowned during the exodus. In 1898, the mummified body of Merneptah was found in the valley of Kings in Egypt. In 1975, Dr. Maurice Bucaille with other doctors received permission to examine the Mummy of Merneptah, the findings of which proved that Merneptah probably died from drowning or a violent shock which immediately preceeded the moment of drowning. Thus the Qur�anic verse that we shall save his body as a sign, has been fulfilled by the Pharaohs� body being kept at the Royal Mummies room in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
This verse of the Qur�an compelled Dr. Maurice Bucaille, who was a Christian then, to study the Qur�an. He later wrote a book �The Bible, the Qur�an and Science�, and confessed that the author of the Qur�an can be no one else besides God Himself. Thus he embraced Islam.
14. QUR�AN IS A BOOK FROM ALLAH
These evidences are sufficient to conclude that the Qur�an was not copied from the Bible, but that the Qur�an is the Furqaan - �the Criteria� to judge right from wrong and it should be used to decipher which portion of the Bible may be considered as the Word of God.
The Qur�an itself testifies in Surah Sajda chapter 32 verse 1 to 3
Alif Laam Meem.
(This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt � from the Lord of the Worlds.
Or do they say, �He has forged it�? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance." [Al-Qur�an 32:1-3]
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Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 08 May 2009 at 11:14am
owen.grandison wrote:
.... Many other members of muhammad's family had so-called pagan names, besides his father. |
Well bro owen.grandison, first of all, we love to call our self Muslims (submitters to God's commands) and not mohammands as you have been addressing here. There is no similarity here of Chritian from Christ.
Secondly, Mohammad came to bring back the pagans of Arabs to their ancestral religion of Ishmael i.e. Islam. So, it is not surprising that you may construe similarities, but nothing more than that.
owen.grandison wrote:
It was custom to exalt and push your deity to the forefront, and thus whosoever tribe was in power, their deity became the sole, great deity. Therefore when the quraysh became the gatekeepers of mecca, they and every other clan showed respect to this deity. His cousin was called Abd Allah (t) Ben Jahsh. His uncle was named after Uzza, (qur'aan 53:19), and i quote, "Have ye seen Lat, and 'Uzza." Uzza was another name for Aset or Isis. So the pre-islamic arabs worshipped egyptian deities! One of muhammad's brothers was Ubaydallat who eventually migrated to ethio pia and became a christian. What happened, why couldn't muhaamad convince his own cousin to remain a muslim? Why did he become an apostate? His uncle abu taalib, died a pagan and never converted to muhamamds's so-called religion. Obviously, he knew something you muhammadans don't! Muhammad's future father-in-law, umar ibn khattab had two sons name Abdullat and Ubaydallat, before islam as well! Not only this, the arabs, jews and the christians got their possesive prononuns from my ancient ancestors-the ancient tama-reans as well.
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Again, please note that their is nothing such thing as "Islamic Names" in Islam. Many of the companions of Mohammad kept their names even after converting to Islam. However, only few needed to change to avoid any form of polythesism associated in the meanings of their names; just like the ones you are trying to make a hypotheses. Thus, any meaningful name is ok in Islam, as long as its meaning doesn't construe any element of polytheism in it. I hope this has answered your question as far as names were concerned. Now coming to your other questions like why such and such couldn't be converted etc. The answer to such questions can be given in many ways. I simply say that this reflects that the message spread through willful understanding and not through force or tribal compulsion as being suggestive in your writings. Prophet Mohammad had to convince each and every person that he came across, not only in his tribe but everywhere including in his immediate family. For some, it was relatively easier to understand than the others and for some it was unfathomable till their death. However, this doesn't cast any aspersion on the authenticity of his true message. His message was not a new one, but the revival of the old, the same that was given to Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, and Jesus. I hope this shall shed off some of the misconceptions. Cheers!
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Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 13 May 2009 at 3:26pm
"The Prophet" is just another conspiracy theory by grand nut-job Jack Chick. As with most conspiracy theories, certain claims are made but are not proven by any evidence. For instance, we are told that Khadijah was a faithful follower of the Pope and had actually lived in a convent! Where is the evidence for this?
------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 27 May 2009 at 6:06pm
Truly, those who don't believe that they will be raised up again and questioned for their words, intentions and actions will carve up anything in order to decieve others, so they think. In fact they only decieve themselves but percieve it not. For a little profit they trade their loss.
Arrogance and decepetion don't gain anything. For the one who sarted the topic, are ashamed to write your identity and name for what you are doing?
For your information, Adam, Lot , Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David and many of God's prophets (pbut) all came hundreds or even thousands of years before the last prophet, yet they were Muslims, submitted to their Creator, God Almighty. You lack the basic understanding of what it means to submitt to the will of God, One God. May God guide you to the right for your own good.
Hasan
------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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