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How would you answer the question:

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Topic: How would you answer the question:
Posted By: robin
Subject: How would you answer the question:
Date Posted: 13 March 2009 at 2:01am

How would you answer the question:

 

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?




Replies:
Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 13 March 2009 at 3:42pm

Salam/Peace,

As a muslimm I would say, because the renewal of bible had been revealed, so the christian should follow the Quran as the renewal and the revised version of bible. They also should follow Muhammad PBUH as the continuation of Jesus PBUH.
 
However we respect whatever you or they believe about bibble, Jesus PBUH and Muahmmad PBUH.
 
 


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Salam/Peace,

Semar

"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)

"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 13 March 2009 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by semar semar wrote:

Salam/Peace,

As a muslimm I would say, because the renewal of bible had been revealed, so the christian should follow the Quran as the renewal and the revised version of bible. They also should follow Muhammad PBUH as the continuation of Jesus PBUH.
 
However we respect whatever you or they believe about bibble, Jesus PBUH and Muahmmad PBUH.
 
 
 
Does not address the question!


Posted By: Hunter
Date Posted: 14 March 2009 at 1:40am
Is this a trick question? Smile Is my unsubstantiated opinion ok? I'm not well versed in the Bible.

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"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything"-- DrDre


Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 15 March 2009 at 12:25am
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

Originally posted by semar semar wrote:

Salam/Peace,

As a muslimm I would say, because the renewal of bible had been revealed, so the christian should follow the Quran as the renewal and the revised version of bible. They also should follow Muhammad PBUH as the continuation of Jesus PBUH.
 
However we respect whatever you or they believe about bible, Jesus PBUH and Muhammad PBUH.
 
 
 
Does not address the question!
Why not. Muslim believe, if you read the "correct" book that really revealed to Prophet Jesus, that mentioned (foretold) about  the coming of Prophet Muhammad. They should follow Quran become Muslim.


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Salam/Peace,

Semar

"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)

"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"


Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 15 March 2009 at 3:00am
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

How would you answer the question:

 

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?

 
Where in the Bible did Jesus Christ named his followers Christians?
 
You are asking me this question and I am replying that A Christian is a person who do not follow Jesus Christ teachings. Most importantly, he said do not worship me as God, God is the father in heaven or some such like.


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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.


Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 15 March 2009 at 4:07am
Salam
What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?
For the Muslims, the question is irrelevant since we don't believe the Bible to be authentic. You can ask a Musim what a Christian is according to the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Quran. But to answer your question, according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Bible, the term Christian has neither been defined nor used by Jesus. Your question could be phrased better if you say:What/who is a follower of Jesus Christ according to the Bible? The true follower of Jesus Christ is the one who keeps the fundamental commandments as Jesus himself said
Mathew 19:16-17
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mathew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The true follower of Jesus Christ would recognize prophet Muhammad to be the messenger as prophesied by Jesus himself according to the Bible:

1. John chapter 14 verse 16:

 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."(That is true since Muhammad PBUH is considered the seal of the prophets. There will be no other prophets after him. His teachings will abide with us forever)

2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth (The bible uses the word spirit synonymous with prophet in many places e.g 1 John 4: 1, and Muhammad PBUH was also known as ASSADIQ, meaning truthful) which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (Muhammad PBUH did testified Jesus Christ to be one of the mightiest messengers of God. No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus)."

3. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

The word used is Paracletos, translated as comforter. Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos which means "the one who praises". Translate that into arabic and you get Ahmed. Hence periclytos=Ahmed. As the Quran says

The Quran says:

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' " Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6
Peace


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 16 March 2009 at 5:33am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

How would you answer the question:

 

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?

 
Where in the Bible did Jesus Christ named his followers Christians?
 
You are asking me this question and I am replying that A Christian is a person who do not follow Jesus Christ teachings. Most importantly, he said do not worship me as God, God is the father in heaven or some such like.
 
You have not addressed the question!


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 16 March 2009 at 5:34am
Originally posted by Hunter Hunter wrote:

Is this a trick question? Smile Is my unsubstantiated opinion ok? I'm not well versed in the Bible.
 
You should be, as Muslims calim that thier faith is rooted in the Bible prophets!


Posted By: robin
Date Posted: 16 March 2009 at 9:19am
Originally posted by _ALI_ _ALI_ wrote:

Salam
What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?
For the Muslims, the question is irrelevant since we don't believe the Bible to be authentic. You can ask a Musim what a Christian is according to the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Quran. But to answer your question, according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Bible, the term Christian has neither been defined nor used by Jesus. Your question could be phrased better if you say:What/who is a follower of Jesus Christ according to the Bible? The true follower of Jesus Christ is the one who keeps the fundamental commandments as Jesus himself said
Mathew 19:16-17
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mathew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The true follower of Jesus Christ would recognize prophet Muhammad to be the messenger as prophesied by Jesus himself according to the Bible:

1. John chapter 14 verse 16:

 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."(That is true since Muhammad PBUH is considered the seal of the prophets. There will be no other prophets after him. His teachings will abide with us forever)

2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth (The bible uses the word spirit synonymous with prophet in many places e.g 1 John 4: 1, and Muhammad PBUH was also known as ASSADIQ, meaning truthful) which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (Muhammad PBUH did testified Jesus Christ to be one of the mightiest messengers of God. No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus)."

3. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

The word used is Paracletos, translated as comforter. Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos which means "the one who praises". Translate that into arabic and you get Ahmed. Hence periclytos=Ahmed. As the Quran says

The Quran says:

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' " Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6
Peace
 

Salam

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?

For the Muslims, the question is irrelevant since we don't believe the Bible to be authentic.

 

YOU SHOULD AS YOU CLAIM YOUIR FAITH COME FROM IT SO IF YOU VIEW IT AS NOT �AUTHENTIC� THEN YOU WON FAITH IS THERFORE NOT �AUTHENTIC�!

 

 

Mathew 19:16-17

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 
YES JESUS FOLLOWED THE TEACHING OF JEHOVAH VIA MOSES

 

 
Mathew 5:17-19

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The true follower of Jesus Christ would recognize prophet Muhammad to be the messenger as prophesied by Jesus himself according to the Bible:

 
THE FOLLOWER OF JESUS ONLY RECOGNISED JESUS AS THE LAST PROPHET - Hebrews 1:1-2  �God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.� 

 

 

1. John chapter 14 verse 16:

 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."(That is true since Muhammad PBUH is considered the seal of the prophets. There will be no other prophets after him. His teachings will abide with us forever)

 
THE COMFORTER ARRIVED IN THE DIRING THE FIRST CENTURY NOT 500 YRS LATER!

 

 

2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth (The bible uses the word spirit synonymous with prophet in many places e.g 1 John 4: 1, and Muhammad PBUH was also known as ASSADIQ, meaning truthful) which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (Muhammad PBUH did testified Jesus Christ to be one of the mightiest messengers of God. No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus)."

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT A CHRISTIAN IS!

 

 

3. Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

The word used is Paracletos, translated as comforter. Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos which means "the one who praises". Translate that into arabic and you get Ahmed. Hence periclytos=Ahmed. As the Quran says

SEE NO. 1

 

NO; YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED WHAT A CHRISTAIN IS FROM THE BIBLE!



Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 6:46am

Salam

YOU SHOULD AS YOU CLAIM YOUIR FAITH COME FROM IT SO IF YOU VIEW IT AS NOT �AUTHENTIC� THEN YOU WON FAITH IS THERFORE NOT �AUTHENTIC�!

Big mistake my friend. Islam was not derived from the Bible. Following was copied from http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm -

Q Is it not true that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has copied the Qur�an from the Bible?

Answer

Many critics allege that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) himself was not the author of the Qur�an but he learnt it and/or plagiarised (copied or adapted) it from other human sources or from previous scriptures or revelations.

1.    MUHUMMAD LEARNT THE QUR�AN FROM A ROMAN BLACKSMITH WHO WAS A CHRISTIAN

Some Pagans accused the Prophet of learning the Qur�an from a Roman Blacksmith, who was a Christian staying at the outskirts of Makkah. The Prophet very often used to go and watch him do his work. A revelation of the Qur�an was sufficient to dismiss this charge - the Qur�an says in Surah An-Nahl chapter 16 verse 103:

"We know indeed that they say, �It is a man that teaches him,� The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear."
                          [Al-Qur�an 16:103]

How could a person whose mother tongue was foreign and could hardly speak little but of poor broken Arabic be the source of the Qur�an which is pure, eloquent, fine Arabic? To believe that the blacksmith taught the Prophet the Qur�an is some what similar to believing that a Chinese immigrant to England, who did not know proper English, taught Shakespeare.

2.    MUHUMMAD (PBUH) LEARNT FROM WARAQA - THE RELATIVE OF KHADIJAH (RA)

Muhummad�s (pbuh) contacts with the Jewish and Christian Scholars were very limited. The most prominent Christian known to him was an old blind man called Waraqa ibn-Naufal who was a relative of the Prophet�s first wife Khadijah (r.a.). Although of Arab descent, he was a convert to Christianity and was very well versed with the New Testament. The Prophet only met him twice, first when Waraqa was worshipping at the Kaaba (before the Prophetic Mission) and he kissed the Prophet�s forehead affectionately; the second occasion was when the Prophet went to meet Waraqa after receiving the first revelation. Waraqa died three years later and the revelation continued for about 23 years. It is ridiculous to assume that Waraqa was the source of the contents of the Qur�an.

3.    PROPHET�S RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS WITH THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS

It is true that the Prophet did have religious discussions with the Jews and Christians but they took place in Madinah more than 13 years after the revelation of the Qur�an had started. The allegation that these Jews and Christians were the source is perverse, since in these discussions Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was performing the roles of a teacher and of a preacher while inviting them to embrace Islam and pointing out that they had deviated from their true teachings of Monotheism. Several of these Jews and Christians later embraced Islam.

4.    THE PROPHET LEARNT THE QUR�AN FROM THOSE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS THAT HE MET OUTSIDE ARABIA

All historical records available show that Muhummad (pbuh) had made only three trips outside Makkah before his Prophethood:

         i.            At the age of 9 he accompanied his mother to Madinah.

       ii.            Between the age of 9 and 12, he accompanied his uncle Abu-Talib on a business trip to Syria.

      iii.            At the age of 25 he led Khadija�s Caravan to Syria.

It is highly imaginary to assume that the Qur�an resulted from the occasional chats and meetings with the Christians or Jews from any of the above three trips.

5.    LOGICAL GROUNDS TO PROVE THAT THE PROPHET DID NOT LEARN THE QUR�AN FROM JEWS OR CHRISTIANS

  1. The day-to-day life of the Prophet was an open book for all to see. In fact a revelation came asking people to give the Prophet (pbuh) privacy in his own home. If the Prophet had been meeting people who told him what to say as a revelation from God, this would not have been hidden for very long.
  2. The extremely prominent Quraish nobles who followed the Prophet and accepted Islam were wise and intelligent men who would have easily noticed anything suspicious about the way in which the Prophet brought the revelations to them - more so since the Prophetic mission lasted 23 years.
  3. The enemies of the Prophet kept a close watch on him in order to find proof for their claim that he was a liar - they could not point out even a single instance when the Prophet may have had a secret rendezvous with particular Jews and Christians.
  4. It is inconceivable that any human author of the Qur�an would have accepted a situation in which he received no credit whatsoever for originating the Qur�an.

Thus, historically and logically it cannot be established that there was a human source for the Qur�an.

6.    MUHUMMAD (PBUH) WAS AN ILLITERATE

The theory that Muhummad (pbuh) authored the Qur�an or copied from other sources can be disproved by the single historical fact that he was illiterate.

Allah testifies Himself in the Qur�an
In Surah Al-Ankabut chapter no.29 verse 48

"And thou was not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted."
[Al-Qur�an 29:48]

Allah (swt) knew that many would doubt the authenticity of the Qur�an and would ascribe it to Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). Therefore Allah in His Divine Wisdom chose the last and final Messenger to be an �Ummi�, i.e. unlettered, so that the talkers of vanity would not then have the slightest justification to doubt the Prophet. The accusation of his enemies that he had copied the Qur�an from other sources and rehashed it all in a beautiful language might have carried some weight, but even this flimsy pretence has been deprived to the unbeliever and the cynic.

Allah reconfirms in the Qur�an in Surah Al A�raf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures) in the Law and the Gospel"

The prophecy of coming of the unlettered Prophet (pbuh) is also mentioned in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12.

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned."
[Isaiah 29:12]

The Qur�an testifies in no less than four different places that the Prophet (pbuh) was illiterate. It is also mentioned in Surah A�raf chapter 7 verse 158 and in Surah Al-Jumu�a chapter 62 verse 2.

7.    ARABIC VERSION OF THE BIBLE WAS NOT PRESENT

The Arabic version of the Bible was not present at the time of Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). The earliest Arabic version of the Old Testament is that of R. Saadias Gaon of 900 C.E. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved Prophet. The oldest Arabic version of the new Testament was published by Erpenius in 1616 C.E. - about a thousand years after the demise of our Prophet.

8.    SIMILARITIES IN THE QUR�AN AND THE BIBLE DUE TO COMMON SOURCE

Similarities between the Qur�an and the Bible does not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal God. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these Judeo-Christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.

It is true that there are some similar parallels between the Qur�an and the Bible but this is not sufficient to accuse Muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the Bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of Christianity and Judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that Jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine Prophet (God forbid) and that he simply copied from the Old Testament.

The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true God and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.

If someone copies during an examination he will surely not write in the answer sheet that he has copied from his neighbour or Mr. XYZ. Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) gave due respect and credit to all the previous prophets (pbut). The Qur�an also mentions the various revelations given by Almighty God to different prophets.

9.    MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN THE TAURAH, ZABOOR, INJEEL AND QUR�AN

Four revelations of Allah (swt) are mentioned by name in the Qur�an: the Taurah, the Zaboor, the Injeel and the Qur�an.

Taurah, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Moosa (a. s.) i.e. Moses (pbuh).
Zaboor, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Dawood (a.s.) i.e. David (pbuh).
Injeel, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Isa (A.S.) ie. Jesus (pbuh).
�Al-Qur�an�, the last and final Wahi i.e. revelation given to the last and final Messenger Muhammad (pbuh).

It is an article of faith for every Muslim to believe in all the Prophets of God and all revelations of God. However, the present day Bible has the first five books of the Old Testament attributed to Moses and the Psalms attributed to David. Moreover the New Testament or the four Gospels of the New Testament are not the Taurah, the Zaboor or the Injeel, which the Qur�an refers to. These books of the present day Bible may partly contain the word of God but these books are certainly not the exact, accurate and complete revelations given to the prophets.

The Qur�an presents all the different prophets of Allah as belonging to one single brotherhood; all had a similar prophetic mission and the same basic message. Because of this, the fundamental teachings of the major faiths cannot be contradictory, even if there has been a considerable passage of time between the different prophetic missions, because the source of these missions was one: Almighty God, Allah. This is why the Qur�an says that the differences which exist between various religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore, misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. The Qur�an cannot therefore be seen as a scripture which competes with the teachings of Moses, Jesus and the other prophets. On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.

Another name for the Qur�an is the �The Furqan� which means the criteria to judge the right from the wrong, and it is on the basis of the Qur�an that we can decipher which part of the previous scriptures can be considered to be the word of God.

10.    SCIENTIFIC COMPARISON BETWEEN QUR�AN AND BIBLE

If you glance through the Bible and the Qur�an you may find several points which appear to be exactly the same in both of them, but when you analyse them closely, you realise that there is a difference of �chalk and cheese� between them. Only based on historical details it is difficult for someone who is neither conversant with Christianity or Islam to come to a firm decision as to which of the scriptures is true; however if you verify the relevant passages of both the scriptures against scientific knowledge, you will yourself realize the truth.

a.       Creation of the Universe in Six Days
As per the Bible, in the first book of Genesis in Chapter One, the universe was created in six days and each day is defined as a twenty-four hours period. Even though the Qur�an mentions that the universe was created in six �Ayyaams�, �Ayyaam� is the plural of years; this word has two meanings: firstly, it means a standard twenty-four hours period i.e. a day, and secondly, it also means stage, period or epoch which is a very long period of time.

When the Qur�an mentions that the universe was created in six �Ayyaams�, it refers to the creation of the heavens and the earth in six long periods or epochs; scientists have no objection to this statement. The creation of the universe has taken billions of years, which proves false or contradicts the concept of the Bible which states that the creation of the Universe took six days of twenty-four hour durations each.

b.       Sun Created After the Day
The Bible says in chapter 1, verses 3-5, of Genesis that the phenomenon of day and night was created on the first day of creation of the Universe by God. The light circulating in the universe is the result of a complex reaction in the stars; these stars were created according to the Bible (Genesis chapter 1 verse 14 to 19) on the fourth day. It is illogical to mention the result that is the light (the phenomenon of day and night) was created on the first day of Creation when the cause or source of the light was created three days later. Moreover the existence of evening and morning as elements of a single day is only conceivable after the creation of the earth and its rotation around the sun. In contrast with the contents of the Bible on this issue, the Qur�an does not give any unscientific sequence of Creation. Hence it is absolutely absurd to say that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) copied the passages pertaining to the creation of the universe from the Bible but missed out this illogical and fantastic sequence of the Bible.

c.       Creation of the Sun, The Earth and the Moon
According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 9 to 13, the earth was created on the third day, and as per verses 14 to 19, the sun and the moon were created on the fourth day. The earth and the moon emanated, as we know, from their original star, the Sun. Hence to place the creation of the sun and the moon after the creation of the earth is contrary to the established idea about the formation of the solar system.

d.       Vegetation Created on the third day and Sun on the fourth day
According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 11-13, vegetation was created on the third day along with seed-bearing grasses, plants and trees; and further on as per verses 14-19, the sun was created on the fourth day. How is it scientifically possible for the vegetation to have appeared without the presence of the sun, as has been stated in the Bible?

If Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) was indeed the author of the Qur�an and had copied its contents from the Bible, how did he manage to avoid the factual errors that the Bible contains? The Qur�an does not contain any statements which are incompatible with scientific facts.

e.       The Sun and the Moon both Emit light
According to the Bible both the sun and the moon emit their own light. In the Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verse 16 says, "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night".

Science tells us today that the moon does not have its own light. This confirms the Qur�anic concept that the light of the moon is a reflected light. To think that 1400 years ago, Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) corrected these scientific errors in the Bible and then copied such corrected passages in the Qur�an is to think of something impossible.

11.    ADAM (PBUH), THE FIRST MAN ON EARTH, LIVED 5,800 YEARS AGO

As per the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Bible, from Jesus through Abraham (pbuh) to the first man on earth i.e. Adam (pbuh), Adam appeared on the earth approximately 5800 years ago:

  1. 1948 years between Adam (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh)
  2. Approximately 1800 years between Abraham (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh)
  3. 2000 years from Jesus (pbuh) till today

These figures are further confused by the fact that the Jewish calendar is currently on or about 5800 years old.

There is sufficient evidence from archaeological and anthropological sources to suggest that the first human being on earth was present tens of thousands of years ago and not merely 5,800 years ago as is suggested by the Bible.
The Qur�an too speaks about Adam (pbuh) as the first man on earth but it does not suggest any date or period of his life on earth, unlike the Bible - what the Bible says in this regard is totally incompatible with science.

12.    NOAH (PBUH) AND THE FLOOD

The Biblical description of the flood in Genesis chapter 6, 7 and 8 indicates that the deluge was universal and it destroyed every living thing on earth, except those present with Noah (pbuh) in the ark. The description suggests that the event took place 1656 years after the creation of Adam (pbuh) or 292 years before the birth of Abraham, at a time when Noah (pbuh) was 600 years old. Thus the flood may have occurred in the 21st or 22nd Century B.C.

This story of the flood, as given in the Bible, contradicts scientific evidence from archaelogical sources which indicate that the eleventh dynasty in Egypt and the third dynasty in Babylonia were in existence without any break in civilisation and in a manner totally unaffected by any major calamity which may have occurred in the 21st century B.C. This contradicts the Biblical story that the whole world had been immersed in the flood water. In contrast to this, the Qur�anic presentation of the story of Noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the Qur�an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the Qur�an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the Qur�an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of Noah.

It is illogical to assume that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) had borrowed the story of the flood from the Bible and corrected the mistakes before mentioning it in the Qur�an.

13.    MOSES (PBUH) AND PHARAOH OF THE EXODUS

The story of Moses (pbuh) and the Pharaoh of the Exodus are very much identical in the Qur�an and the Bible. Both scriptures agree that the Pharaoh drowned when he tried to pursue Moses (pbuh) and led the Israelites across a stretch of water that they crossed. The Qur�an gives an additional piece of information in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 92:

"This day shall We save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"
[Al-Qur�an 10:92]

Dr. Maurice Bucaille, after a thorough research proved that although Rameses II was known to have persecuted the Israelites as per the Bible, he actually died while Moses (pbuh) was taking refuge in Median. Rameses II�s son Merneptah who succeeded him as Pharaoh drowned during the exodus. In 1898, the mummified body of Merneptah was found in the valley of Kings in Egypt. In 1975, Dr. Maurice Bucaille with other doctors received permission to examine the Mummy of Merneptah, the findings of which proved that Merneptah probably died from drowning or a violent shock which immediately preceeded the moment of drowning. Thus the Qur�anic verse that we shall save his body as a sign, has been fulfilled by the Pharaohs� body being kept at the Royal Mummies room in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.

This verse of the Qur�an compelled Dr. Maurice Bucaille, who was a Christian then, to study the Qur�an. He later wrote a book �The Bible, the Qur�an and Science�, and confessed that the author of the Qur�an can be no one else besides God Himself. Thus he embraced Islam.

14.    QUR�AN IS A BOOK FROM ALLAH

These evidences are sufficient to conclude that the Qur�an was not copied from the Bible, but that the Qur�an is the Furqaan - �the Criteria� to judge right from wrong and it should be used to decipher which portion of the Bible may be considered as the Word of God.

The Qur�an itself testifies in Surah Sajda chapter 32 verse 1 to 3

Alif Laam Meem.

(This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt � from the Lord of the Worlds.

Or do they say, �He has forged it�? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance."
[Al-Qur�an 32:1-3]

THE FOLLOWER OF JESUS ONLY RECOGNISED JESUS AS THE LAST PROPHET - Hebrews 1:1-2  �God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.� 

You quote hebrews. We don't even know who the author of this book is. So why should I believe it? And it does not say that Jesus is the last prophet. It only says that he was sent "at the end of these days."

THE COMFORTER ARRIVED IN THE DIRING THE FIRST CENTURY NOT 500 YRS LATER!

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the comforter will come in the 1st century. It only gives the characteristics of comforter which prophet Muhammad fulfills with ease.

 

2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth (The bible uses the word spirit synonymous with prophet in many places e.g 1 John 4: 1, and Muhammad PBUH was also known as ASSADIQ, meaning truthful) which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (Muhammad PBUH did testified Jesus Christ to be one of the mightiest messengers of God. No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus)."

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT A CHRISTIAN IS!

Like I said before, if a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, he should recognize prophet Muhammad as told by Jesus himself according to the Bible.

NO; YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED WHAT A CHRISTAIN IS FROM THE BIBLE!

All the points I gave were backed by the Bible itself. A true follower of Jesus should pay attention to Jesus' quotes in the Bible and should realize that only prophet Muhammad fits the description of the comforter.

Peace

 



Posted By: Mansoor_ali
Date Posted: 22 March 2009 at 3:27pm

 THE COMFORTER ARRIVED IN THE DIRING THE FIRST CENTURY NOT 500 YRS LATER!

 

If it is said that the Comforter was promised to the immediate disciples of Jesus � peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him � and not to a people six hundred years later:

 

"and he (God) shall give You another Comforter, that he may abide with You for ever." John 14:16 (Emphasis mine)

 

Surprisingly, the Christian sees no difficulty in justifying the fulfillment of prophecies "since the world began," (Acts 3:21) and after over a millennium when Peter in his second sermon to the Jews, reminds them:

 

"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord Your God raise up unto You of Your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear In all things what-so ever he shall say unto You." Acts 3: 22 (Emphasis mine)

 

All these "YE, YOU and YOURS" are from the Book of Deuteronomy, chapter 18, when Moses � peace and blessings of Almighty Allah be upon him � addressed his people and NOT the Jews at the time of Peter, thirteen hundred years later. The Gospel writers have put the same compromising words in the mouth of their Master which are begging for fulfillment for two thousand years. I think just one example will suffice:

 

"But when they persecute You in this city, flee Ye into another: for verily (most assuredly) I (Jesus) say unto You, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel till the son of man (Jesus) be come."  Matthew 10: 25 (Emphasis mine)


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 20 April 2009 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

Originally posted by Hunter Hunter wrote:

Is this a trick question? Smile Is my unsubstantiated opinion ok? I'm not well versed in the Bible.
 
You should be, as Muslims calim that thier faith is rooted in the Bible prophets!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Hi Robin,
As a Muslim, my faith is rooted in the pure word of God sent for our times, the Quran. The Biblical prophets were not Christians nor Jews as we know them now. They were in submission to the will of God, and so was Jesus. In total submission to God, which translates as a Muslim. Jesus did not deviate from what he was taught or what the prophets were taught before him. Believing in One God, and submitting to his will, true believers. You can call them with whatever name, but in practice they all and we Muslims submitt ourself to the One and only God, thus are Muslims. That is the true meaning of what prophets taught since Adam to Mohammed (pbut).
Hasan


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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62



Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 08 May 2009 at 10:46am
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

How would you answer the question:

 

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?

 
Well my brother Robin, according to the Jesus teachings recorded in the Bible, his followers should be fully Jews who would recognize him as a Prophet of God, the same God who sent many other Prophets to them including Ibrahim, Moses, Jacob, Lut, John the Baptist etc etc. He came to make the rules easier for them to understand and follow in their essence and not in their literal sense. Hence, Jesus came to guide the lost sheep of Israel. 


Posted By: Natassia
Date Posted: 21 July 2009 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

How would you answer the question:

 

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?

A person who has repented and believes in the salvation of God through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and trusts in their heart that they will be resurrected just as Christ was resurrected.
 
THAT is the definition of a Christian who is saved by their faith. 
 
You will know a person is truly a Christian by their "fruits."  A good tree produces good fruits, and a bad one produces bad fruits.  A Christian proves their faith to themselves and others by their deeds and words.


Posted By: salahuddeen2009
Date Posted: 02 September 2009 at 5:02pm
salam sister
i'l explain to you what you have said now,I mean,i'l define the christian to you,in another words,according to what you have said;
A person who has repented and believes in the salvation of God through the sacrifice of GOD and trusts in their heart that they will be resurrected just as GOD was resurrected
 
HERE IT IS AGAIN:
GOD HAD SENT GOD (BOTH OF THEM ARE ONE) TO BE KILLED ON THE CROSS AFTER GOD PRAYED  TO GOD TO RELIEVE GOD'S PASSIONS ,BUT GOD WANTED ALL THIS SUFFERINGS TO HAPPEN TO GOD  IN ORDER THAT GOD WOULD FORGIVE HUMANS FOR A SIN THAT GOD KNOWS FOR SURE THAT THEY HAD NO HAND  IN IT,BUT IT MADE GOD GET ANGRY WITH ALL OF THEM!!

IN SUMMARY: GOD HAD SENT GOD TO MAKE  GOD  SUFFER TILL GOD'S DEATH ON THE CROSS ,TO MAKE GOD HAPPY !! 
 
ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU BELIEVE?SISTER?
 
OH MY GOD!!!Stern%20SmileTHE BELIEF OF SOMEONE SHOULD BE AT LEAST ""LOGIC""!!
 
ANOTHER THING,
SISTER,GOOD DEEDS CAN COME FROM ANY ONE,HINDU,BHUDIST,ATHIEST,BASED ON HIS CULTURE & BEHAVIOURS,SO IT'S NOT THAT ACCURATE PARAMETER TO INDICATE WHETHER THE BELIEF IS RIGHT OR WRONG
 
THE BOOK(SCRIPTURE)OF EACH RELIGEON IS THE GOLD STANDARD PARAMETER FOR SUCH JUDGEMENT
 


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 3:58pm
Cannot be said any better, may Allah reward you brother for speaking the truth and making it simple and logical.
Jazakallah.
Hasan 


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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62



Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 6:36pm
I agree, well said. 

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

Originally posted by Hunter Hunter wrote:

Is this a trick question? Smile Is my unsubstantiated opinion ok? I'm not well versed in the Bible.
 
You should be, as Muslims calim that thier faith is rooted in the Bible prophets!
 
But only what can be substantiated by the Quran.


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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: Shasta'sAunt
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 7:52pm
"Originally posted by robin

How would you answer the question:

 

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?"

 
According to Jesus in the Bible, he was a Jewish Prophet who was sent only to the Jews to reaffirm the Mosaic Laws.


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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt


Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 2:42pm
Shasta's Aunt Salam,
you are right also according to Jesus quoted in John 4:22
" ...the salvation is of the Jews"
Hasan


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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62



Posted By: Nazarene
Date Posted: 09 September 2009 at 10:29am
salaams robin
 
   there were no christians around when jesus(p) was teaching. so how could he difine " christian". the name CHRISTIAN did not exsist till 60-70 ce. it was first give to the gentile followers of the christ in antioch ,as stated in ACTS. and the RELIGON OF CHRISTANITY AS NOW did not exsist till 350 ce. thats why no evidence of " christanity " exsists before that time.  i'm not saying the followers of christ did not exsist. but going by what we know as christian today little or none have been found.
     but by reading the WORDS of the christ he taught that:
  there was no trinity.
  no original sin
  not to worship him
  he was not the decendent of david
  he was not a sacrifice for sin
  we are responible for are own repentence
   he was no more the son of god than we are
   money and wealth meant knowthing to god and was not a
   " devine " gift to show how rightious you are.
    HARM NO ONE in his name.
   also christanity is a religon " DEVELOPED" with jesus as the GOD HEAD
    jesus came to declare that GOD ALONE was the center of worship.
 
   so when did jesus ever define A CHRISTIAN in his own teachings??
 love
leland


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love for all conquers all


Posted By: Yusuf Arief
Date Posted: 03 December 2009 at 8:19am
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

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As a Muslim, and this may sound strange to you as an answer, but I would expect a Christian who follows the teachings of Jesus to be just like us, regardless of where his teachings are, be it in the Bible or the Holy Qur'an, Jesus is the same and his teachings are the same, some people find it hard to believe that Jesus is a mighty prophet of Allah, our only real difference is that the Holy Qur'An has not been altered since it was first revealed, and therefore we can trust the words written there in concerning Jesus, his mission and his teachings, where as with the Bible there have been many alterations, and please try to understand that the concept of Jesus as the son of god was not introduced until some 300+ years after his death and resurection.
Christians or followers of the Christian faith are not or should not be looked upon as alien to us Muslims,
and as rightly said before me on this particular thread, any person of any faith can perform what is commonly known as a christian act of kindness, an act of kindness does not make a person a christian, it makes them a human being and fulfilling the general nature as intended for us by our collective creator Allah.


Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 2:35am
As a Muslim, and this may sound strange to you as an answer, but I would expect a Christian who follows the teachings of Jesus to be just like us, regardless of where his teachings are, be it in the Bible or the Holy Qur'an, Jesus is the same and his teachings are the same, some people find it hard to believe that Jesus is a mighty prophet of Allah, our only real difference is that the Holy Qur'An has not been altered since it was first revealed, and therefore we can trust the words
written there in concerning Jesus, his mission and his teachings, where as with the Bible there have been many alterations, and please try to understand that the concept of Jesus as the son of god was not introduced until some 300+ years after his death and resurection.
Christians or followers of the Christian faith are not or should not be looked upon as alien to us Muslims,
and as rightly said before me on this particular thread, any person of any faith can perform what is commonly known as a christian act of kindness, an act of kindness does not make a person a christian, it makes them a human being and fulfilling the general nature as intended for us by our collective creator Allah.
 
Thats a good reply Mashallah.i would like to bring your attention to the below verse in the Quran.
 
[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
 
The verse above does not mean that any Christian or any jew or any Muslim or any others will receive recompense from GOD.The verse points to those Christians ,Jews, Muslims,Hindus,Buddhists etc etc who worship GOD alone and do not set up any partners besides GOD.I personally believe that there are such monotheists in every community and even though they may be born in a family of idol worshippers or live a sinful life,they will eventually not be satisfied with what they have or what they are doing and start searching the truth.And when such people study the Quran,they get satisfied and accept Islam.The truth is that they were True Muslims all along or destined to be True Muslims.Blessed are such believers and they will certainly receive recompense from their LORD.   


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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 03 February 2010 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by _ALI_ _ALI_ wrote:

Salam

YOU SHOULD AS YOU CLAIM YOUIR FAITH COME FROM IT SO IF YOU VIEW IT AS NOT �AUTHENTIC� THEN YOU WON FAITH IS THERFORE NOT �AUTHENTIC�!

Big mistake my friend. Islam was not derived from the Bible. Following was copied from http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm -

Q Is it not true that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has copied the Qur�an from the Bible?

Answer

Many critics allege that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) himself was not the author of the Qur�an but he learnt it and/or plagiarised (copied or adapted) it from other human sources or from previous scriptures or revelations.

1.    MUHUMMAD LEARNT THE QUR�AN FROM A ROMAN BLACKSMITH WHO WAS A CHRISTIAN

Some Pagans accused the Prophet of learning the Qur�an from a Roman Blacksmith, who was a Christian staying at the outskirts of Makkah. The Prophet very often used to go and watch him do his work. A revelation of the Qur�an was sufficient to dismiss this charge - the Qur�an says in Surah An-Nahl chapter 16 verse 103:

"We know indeed that they say, �It is a man that teaches him,� The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear."
                          [Al-Qur�an 16:103]

How could a person whose mother tongue was foreign and could hardly speak little but of poor broken Arabic be the source of the Qur�an which is pure, eloquent, fine Arabic? To believe that the blacksmith taught the Prophet the Qur�an is some what similar to believing that a Chinese immigrant to England, who did not know proper English, taught Shakespeare.

2.    MUHUMMAD (PBUH) LEARNT FROM WARAQA - THE RELATIVE OF KHADIJAH (RA)

Muhummad�s (pbuh) contacts with the Jewish and Christian Scholars were very limited. The most prominent Christian known to him was an old blind man called Waraqa ibn-Naufal who was a relative of the Prophet�s first wife Khadijah (r.a.). Although of Arab descent, he was a convert to Christianity and was very well versed with the New Testament. The Prophet only met him twice, first when Waraqa was worshipping at the Kaaba (before the Prophetic Mission) and he kissed the Prophet�s forehead affectionately; the second occasion was when the Prophet went to meet Waraqa after receiving the first revelation. Waraqa died three years later and the revelation continued for about 23 years. It is ridiculous to assume that Waraqa was the source of the contents of the Qur�an.

3.    PROPHET�S RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS WITH THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS

It is true that the Prophet did have religious discussions with the Jews and Christians but they took place in Madinah more than 13 years after the revelation of the Qur�an had started. The allegation that these Jews and Christians were the source is perverse, since in these discussions Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was performing the roles of a teacher and of a preacher while inviting them to embrace Islam and pointing out that they had deviated from their true teachings of Monotheism. Several of these Jews and Christians later embraced Islam.

4.    THE PROPHET LEARNT THE QUR�AN FROM THOSE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS THAT HE MET OUTSIDE ARABIA

All historical records available show that Muhummad (pbuh) had made only three trips outside Makkah before his Prophethood:

         i.            At the age of 9 he accompanied his mother to Madinah.

       ii.            Between the age of 9 and 12, he accompanied his uncle Abu-Talib on a business trip to Syria.

      iii.            At the age of 25 he led Khadija�s Caravan to Syria.

It is highly imaginary to assume that the Qur�an resulted from the occasional chats and meetings with the Christians or Jews from any of the above three trips.

5.    LOGICAL GROUNDS TO PROVE THAT THE PROPHET DID NOT LEARN THE QUR�AN FROM JEWS OR CHRISTIANS

  1. The day-to-day life of the Prophet was an open book for all to see. In fact a revelation came asking people to give the Prophet (pbuh) privacy in his own home. If the Prophet had been meeting people who told him what to say as a revelation from God, this would not have been hidden for very long.
  2. The extremely prominent Quraish nobles who followed the Prophet and accepted Islam were wise and intelligent men who would have easily noticed anything suspicious about the way in which the Prophet brought the revelations to them - more so since the Prophetic mission lasted 23 years.
  3. The enemies of the Prophet kept a close watch on him in order to find proof for their claim that he was a liar - they could not point out even a single instance when the Prophet may have had a secret rendezvous with particular Jews and Christians.
  4. It is inconceivable that any human author of the Qur�an would have accepted a situation in which he received no credit whatsoever for originating the Qur�an.

Thus, historically and logically it cannot be established that there was a human source for the Qur�an.

6.    MUHUMMAD (PBUH) WAS AN ILLITERATE

The theory that Muhummad (pbuh) authored the Qur�an or copied from other sources can be disproved by the single historical fact that he was illiterate.

Allah testifies Himself in the Qur�an
In Surah Al-Ankabut chapter no.29 verse 48

"And thou was not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted."
[Al-Qur�an 29:48]

Allah (swt) knew that many would doubt the authenticity of the Qur�an and would ascribe it to Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). Therefore Allah in His Divine Wisdom chose the last and final Messenger to be an �Ummi�, i.e. unlettered, so that the talkers of vanity would not then have the slightest justification to doubt the Prophet. The accusation of his enemies that he had copied the Qur�an from other sources and rehashed it all in a beautiful language might have carried some weight, but even this flimsy pretence has been deprived to the unbeliever and the cynic.

Allah reconfirms in the Qur�an in Surah Al A�raf chapter 7 verse 157:

"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures) in the Law and the Gospel"

The prophecy of coming of the unlettered Prophet (pbuh) is also mentioned in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12.

"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned."
[Isaiah 29:12]

The Qur�an testifies in no less than four different places that the Prophet (pbuh) was illiterate. It is also mentioned in Surah A�raf chapter 7 verse 158 and in Surah Al-Jumu�a chapter 62 verse 2.

7.    ARABIC VERSION OF THE BIBLE WAS NOT PRESENT

The Arabic version of the Bible was not present at the time of Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). The earliest Arabic version of the Old Testament is that of R. Saadias Gaon of 900 C.E. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved Prophet. The oldest Arabic version of the new Testament was published by Erpenius in 1616 C.E. - about a thousand years after the demise of our Prophet.

8.    SIMILARITIES IN THE QUR�AN AND THE BIBLE DUE TO COMMON SOURCE

Similarities between the Qur�an and the Bible does not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal God. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these Judeo-Christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.

It is true that there are some similar parallels between the Qur�an and the Bible but this is not sufficient to accuse Muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the Bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of Christianity and Judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that Jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine Prophet (God forbid) and that he simply copied from the Old Testament.

The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true God and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.

If someone copies during an examination he will surely not write in the answer sheet that he has copied from his neighbour or Mr. XYZ. Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) gave due respect and credit to all the previous prophets (pbut). The Qur�an also mentions the various revelations given by Almighty God to different prophets.

9.    MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN THE TAURAH, ZABOOR, INJEEL AND QUR�AN

Four revelations of Allah (swt) are mentioned by name in the Qur�an: the Taurah, the Zaboor, the Injeel and the Qur�an.

Taurah, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Moosa (a. s.) i.e. Moses (pbuh).
Zaboor, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Dawood (a.s.) i.e. David (pbuh).
Injeel, the revelation i.e. the Wahi given to Isa (A.S.) ie. Jesus (pbuh).
�Al-Qur�an�, the last and final Wahi i.e. revelation given to the last and final Messenger Muhammad (pbuh).

It is an article of faith for every Muslim to believe in all the Prophets of God and all revelations of God. However, the present day Bible has the first five books of the Old Testament attributed to Moses and the Psalms attributed to David. Moreover the New Testament or the four Gospels of the New Testament are not the Taurah, the Zaboor or the Injeel, which the Qur�an refers to. These books of the present day Bible may partly contain the word of God but these books are certainly not the exact, accurate and complete revelations given to the prophets.

The Qur�an presents all the different prophets of Allah as belonging to one single brotherhood; all had a similar prophetic mission and the same basic message. Because of this, the fundamental teachings of the major faiths cannot be contradictory, even if there has been a considerable passage of time between the different prophetic missions, because the source of these missions was one: Almighty God, Allah. This is why the Qur�an says that the differences which exist between various religions are not the responsibility of the prophets, but of the followers of these prophets who forgot part of what they had been taught, and furthermore, misinterpreted and changed the scriptures. The Qur�an cannot therefore be seen as a scripture which competes with the teachings of Moses, Jesus and the other prophets. On the contrary, it confirms, completes and perfects the messages that they brought to their people.

Another name for the Qur�an is the �The Furqan� which means the criteria to judge the right from the wrong, and it is on the basis of the Qur�an that we can decipher which part of the previous scriptures can be considered to be the word of God.

10.    SCIENTIFIC COMPARISON BETWEEN QUR�AN AND BIBLE

If you glance through the Bible and the Qur�an you may find several points which appear to be exactly the same in both of them, but when you analyse them closely, you realise that there is a difference of �chalk and cheese� between them. Only based on historical details it is difficult for someone who is neither conversant with Christianity or Islam to come to a firm decision as to which of the scriptures is true; however if you verify the relevant passages of both the scriptures against scientific knowledge, you will yourself realize the truth.

a.       Creation of the Universe in Six Days
As per the Bible, in the first book of Genesis in Chapter One, the universe was created in six days and each day is defined as a twenty-four hours period. Even though the Qur�an mentions that the universe was created in six �Ayyaams�, �Ayyaam� is the plural of years; this word has two meanings: firstly, it means a standard twenty-four hours period i.e. a day, and secondly, it also means stage, period or epoch which is a very long period of time.

When the Qur�an mentions that the universe was created in six �Ayyaams�, it refers to the creation of the heavens and the earth in six long periods or epochs; scientists have no objection to this statement. The creation of the universe has taken billions of years, which proves false or contradicts the concept of the Bible which states that the creation of the Universe took six days of twenty-four hour durations each.

b.       Sun Created After the Day
The Bible says in chapter 1, verses 3-5, of Genesis that the phenomenon of day and night was created on the first day of creation of the Universe by God. The light circulating in the universe is the result of a complex reaction in the stars; these stars were created according to the Bible (Genesis chapter 1 verse 14 to 19) on the fourth day. It is illogical to mention the result that is the light (the phenomenon of day and night) was created on the first day of Creation when the cause or source of the light was created three days later. Moreover the existence of evening and morning as elements of a single day is only conceivable after the creation of the earth and its rotation around the sun. In contrast with the contents of the Bible on this issue, the Qur�an does not give any unscientific sequence of Creation. Hence it is absolutely absurd to say that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) copied the passages pertaining to the creation of the universe from the Bible but missed out this illogical and fantastic sequence of the Bible.

c.       Creation of the Sun, The Earth and the Moon
According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 9 to 13, the earth was created on the third day, and as per verses 14 to 19, the sun and the moon were created on the fourth day. The earth and the moon emanated, as we know, from their original star, the Sun. Hence to place the creation of the sun and the moon after the creation of the earth is contrary to the established idea about the formation of the solar system.

d.       Vegetation Created on the third day and Sun on the fourth day
According to the Bible, Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verses 11-13, vegetation was created on the third day along with seed-bearing grasses, plants and trees; and further on as per verses 14-19, the sun was created on the fourth day. How is it scientifically possible for the vegetation to have appeared without the presence of the sun, as has been stated in the Bible?

If Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) was indeed the author of the Qur�an and had copied its contents from the Bible, how did he manage to avoid the factual errors that the Bible contains? The Qur�an does not contain any statements which are incompatible with scientific facts.

e.       The Sun and the Moon both Emit light
According to the Bible both the sun and the moon emit their own light. In the Book of Genesis, chapter 1, verse 16 says, "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night".

Science tells us today that the moon does not have its own light. This confirms the Qur�anic concept that the light of the moon is a reflected light. To think that 1400 years ago, Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) corrected these scientific errors in the Bible and then copied such corrected passages in the Qur�an is to think of something impossible.

11.    ADAM (PBUH), THE FIRST MAN ON EARTH, LIVED 5,800 YEARS AGO

As per the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Bible, from Jesus through Abraham (pbuh) to the first man on earth i.e. Adam (pbuh), Adam appeared on the earth approximately 5800 years ago:

  1. 1948 years between Adam (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh)
  2. Approximately 1800 years between Abraham (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh)
  3. 2000 years from Jesus (pbuh) till today

These figures are further confused by the fact that the Jewish calendar is currently on or about 5800 years old.

There is sufficient evidence from archaeological and anthropological sources to suggest that the first human being on earth was present tens of thousands of years ago and not merely 5,800 years ago as is suggested by the Bible.
The Qur�an too speaks about Adam (pbuh) as the first man on earth but it does not suggest any date or period of his life on earth, unlike the Bible - what the Bible says in this regard is totally incompatible with science.

12.    NOAH (PBUH) AND THE FLOOD

The Biblical description of the flood in Genesis chapter 6, 7 and 8 indicates that the deluge was universal and it destroyed every living thing on earth, except those present with Noah (pbuh) in the ark. The description suggests that the event took place 1656 years after the creation of Adam (pbuh) or 292 years before the birth of Abraham, at a time when Noah (pbuh) was 600 years old. Thus the flood may have occurred in the 21st or 22nd Century B.C.

This story of the flood, as given in the Bible, contradicts scientific evidence from archaelogical sources which indicate that the eleventh dynasty in Egypt and the third dynasty in Babylonia were in existence without any break in civilisation and in a manner totally unaffected by any major calamity which may have occurred in the 21st century B.C. This contradicts the Biblical story that the whole world had been immersed in the flood water. In contrast to this, the Qur�anic presentation of the story of Noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the Qur�an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the Qur�an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the Qur�an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of Noah.

It is illogical to assume that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) had borrowed the story of the flood from the Bible and corrected the mistakes before mentioning it in the Qur�an.

13.    MOSES (PBUH) AND PHARAOH OF THE EXODUS

The story of Moses (pbuh) and the Pharaoh of the Exodus are very much identical in the Qur�an and the Bible. Both scriptures agree that the Pharaoh drowned when he tried to pursue Moses (pbuh) and led the Israelites across a stretch of water that they crossed. The Qur�an gives an additional piece of information in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 92:

"This day shall We save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"
[Al-Qur�an 10:92]

Dr. Maurice Bucaille, after a thorough research proved that although Rameses II was known to have persecuted the Israelites as per the Bible, he actually died while Moses (pbuh) was taking refuge in Median. Rameses II�s son Merneptah who succeeded him as Pharaoh drowned during the exodus. In 1898, the mummified body of Merneptah was found in the valley of Kings in Egypt. In 1975, Dr. Maurice Bucaille with other doctors received permission to examine the Mummy of Merneptah, the findings of which proved that Merneptah probably died from drowning or a violent shock which immediately preceeded the moment of drowning. Thus the Qur�anic verse that we shall save his body as a sign, has been fulfilled by the Pharaohs� body being kept at the Royal Mummies room in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.

This verse of the Qur�an compelled Dr. Maurice Bucaille, who was a Christian then, to study the Qur�an. He later wrote a book �The Bible, the Qur�an and Science�, and confessed that the author of the Qur�an can be no one else besides God Himself. Thus he embraced Islam.

14.    QUR�AN IS A BOOK FROM ALLAH

These evidences are sufficient to conclude that the Qur�an was not copied from the Bible, but that the Qur�an is the Furqaan - �the Criteria� to judge right from wrong and it should be used to decipher which portion of the Bible may be considered as the Word of God.

The Qur�an itself testifies in Surah Sajda chapter 32 verse 1 to 3

Alif Laam Meem.

(This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt � from the Lord of the Worlds.

Or do they say, �He has forged it�? Nay, it is the Truth from thy Lord, that thou mayest admonish a people to whom no warner has come before thee: in order that they may receive guidance."
[Al-Qur�an 32:1-3]

THE FOLLOWER OF JESUS ONLY RECOGNISED JESUS AS THE LAST PROPHET - Hebrews 1:1-2  �God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things.� 

You quote hebrews. We don't even know who the author of this book is. So why should I believe it? And it does not say that Jesus is the last prophet. It only says that he was sent "at the end of these days."

THE COMFORTER ARRIVED IN THE DIRING THE FIRST CENTURY NOT 500 YRS LATER!

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the comforter will come in the 1st century. It only gives the characteristics of comforter which prophet Muhammad fulfills with ease.

 

2. Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth (The bible uses the word spirit synonymous with prophet in many places e.g 1 John 4: 1, and Muhammad PBUH was also known as ASSADIQ, meaning truthful) which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me (Muhammad PBUH did testified Jesus Christ to be one of the mightiest messengers of God. No Muslim is a Muslim if he does not believe in Jesus)."

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT A CHRISTIAN IS!

Like I said before, if a Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ, he should recognize prophet Muhammad as told by Jesus himself according to the Bible.

NO; YOU HAVE NOT EXPLAINED WHAT A CHRISTAIN IS FROM THE BIBLE!

All the points I gave were backed by the Bible itself. A true follower of Jesus should pay attention to Jesus' quotes in the Bible and should realize that only prophet Muhammad fits the description of the comforter.

Peace

 

 
Ali can you tell me how can a flood thats been localized kill all the inhabitants of the world, how is it possible that such a major event can be localized.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 03 February 2010 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by haris30432 haris30432 wrote:

As a Muslim, and this may sound strange to you as an answer, but I would expect a Christian who follows the teachings of Jesus to be just like us, regardless of where his teachings are, be it in the Bible or the Holy Qur'an, Jesus is the same and his teachings are the same, some people find it hard to believe that Jesus is a mighty prophet of Allah, our only real difference is that the Holy Qur'An has not been altered since it was first revealed, and therefore we can trust the words
written there in concerning Jesus, his mission and his teachings, where as with the Bible there have been many alterations, and please try to understand that the concept of Jesus as the son of god was not introduced until some 300+ years after his death and resurection.
Christians or followers of the Christian faith are not or should not be looked upon as alien to us Muslims,
and as rightly said before me on this particular thread, any person of any faith can perform what is commonly known as a christian act of kindness, an act of kindness does not make a person a christian, it makes them a human being and fulfilling the general nature as intended for us by our collective creator Allah.
 
Thats a good reply Mashallah.i would like to bring your attention to the below verse in the Quran.
 
[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
 
The verse above does not mean that any Christian or any jew or any Muslim or any others will receive recompense from GOD.The verse points to those Christians ,Jews, Muslims,Hindus,Buddhists etc etc who worship GOD alone and do not set up any partners besides GOD.I personally believe that there are such monotheists in every community and even though they may be born in a family of idol worshippers or live a sinful life,they will eventually not be satisfied with what they have or what they are doing and start searching the truth.And when such people study the Quran,they get satisfied and accept Islam.The truth is that they were True Muslims all along or destined to be True Muslims.Blessed are such believers and they will certainly receive recompense from their LORD.   
 Do you think this was writen down just for the mere pleasure of it this is just to demonstrate that no one and no so called prophets will superceed Jesus and his Apostles.
This is a nail in every false messenger's coffin. 

Heb 1:1 God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners,

Heb 1:2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:3 who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb 1:4 having become by so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? and again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?

Heb 1:6 And when he again bringeth in the firstborn into the world he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels winds, And his ministers a flame a fire:

Heb 1:8 but of the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever; And the sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:

Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

Heb 1:12 And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall not fail.

Heb 1:13 But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation?



Posted By: Shibboleth
Date Posted: 07 February 2010 at 9:15pm
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CHRISTIAN

The Latinized Greek term Khri�sti�a�nos′, found only three times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, designates followers of Christ Jesus, the exponents of Christianity.

 

�It was first in Antioch [Syria] that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.� (Ac 11:26)

26 and, after he found him, he brought him to Antioch. It thus came about that for a whole year they gathered together with them in the congregation and taught quite a crowd, and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.

The Holy Scriptures shows that it was a God-given name; they �were by divine providence called Christians and guess what? No one argue that fact, not even the Jews and other opponents of Christianity, until hundreds of years later (The Anti-Christ) There wasn�t even a Muhammad or a Mecca nowhere to be even thought of let alone found.

Just because Muslims chose not to believe, so be it, it�s there lost. But, way before Muslims was the Jews, and even they believed that Christ had followers, many of them becoming Christians.

What Muslims fail to realize, within a period of less than 300 years, the wheat field of Christianity had been overrun with the weeds of apostate antichrists (The Bible prophesied the antichrist would come) to the point where wicked Constantine the Great (himself incriminated in the murder of no less than seven close friends and relatives) figured in events that led to the development of a state religion disguised as �Christianity� which in reality is called Christendom (Apostate Christianity)   

Non-Christian Testimony. Secular writers of the first two centuries also acknowledged the presence and influence of early Christians in their pagan world. For example, Tacitus, a Roman historian born about 55 C.E., tells of the rumor charging that Nero was the one responsible for burning Rome (64 C.E.), and then says: �Therefore, to scotch the rumour, Nero substituted as culprits, and punished with the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men, loathed for their vices [as the Romans viewed matters], whom the crowd styled Christians. . . . First, then, the confessed members of the sect were arrested; next, on their disclosures, vast numbers were convicted, not so much on the count of arson as for hatred of the human race. And derision accompanied their end: they were covered with wild beasts� skins and torn to death by dogs; or they were fastened on crosses, and, when daylight failed were burned to serve as lamps by night.� (The Annals, XV, XLIV) Suetonius, another Roman historian, born toward the end of the first century C.E., relates events that occurred during Nero�s reign, saying: �Punishment was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given to a new and mischievous superstition.��The Lives of the Caesars (Nero, XVI, 2).

Flavius Josephus, in his Jewish Antiquities (XVIII, 64 [iii, 3]), mentions certain events in the life of Jesus, adding: �And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day [about 93 C.E.] not disappeared.� Pliny the Younger, governor of Bithynia in 111 or 112 C.E., faced with the �Christian problem,� wrote to Emperor Trajan, outlining the methods he was using and asking for advice. �I have asked them in person if they are Christians,� wrote Pliny. If they admitted it, they were punished. However, others �denied that they were or ever had been Christians.� Put to the test, not only did these offer up pagan sacrifices but they even �reviled the name of Christ: none of which things, I understand, any genuine Christian can be induced to do.� In answering this letter, Trajan commended Pliny on the way he had handled the matter: �You have followed the right course of procedure . . . in your examination of the cases of persons charged with being Christians.��The Letters of Pliny, X, XCVI, 3, 5; XCVII, 1.

Muslims, how far back do your evidence/references go that there were no Christians? Answer if you DARE!

Good question Robin, a very good question indeed.



-------------
�If you doubt what we have revealed to you, ask those who have read the Scriptures before you.� (Sura 10, Yunis [Jonah], verse 94) & (Surah Al �Imran: 84-85)


Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 1:03am
Salam Jouberar
Your statements in bold
Ali can you tell me how can a flood thats been localized kill all the inhabitants of the world, how is it possible that such a major event can be localized.

Are you referring to the flood of Noah? Well, I never said that the flood was localized and I never said that it killed all the inhabitants of the world. I do not know whether it killed everyone or only Noah's people or was it for only one piece of land or for entire world. I only said that according to the Bible, the flood took place 21st or 22 century BC and according to Science, there were other civilizations present at that time. Either Science is wrong or the Bible is.
Peace


Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 10:30pm
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

How would you answer the question:

 

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?

Hi,
 
A Christian is a believer, someone who follows the teachings of Jesus trying to act in good faith, to help and love everyone, no matter his religion, money, color, etc.
 
The most important for us is the love and the peace, and we have to try our best to make it possible.
 
Regards


-------------
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 01 March 2010 at 10:44am
Originally posted by _ALI_ _ALI_ wrote:

Salam Jouberar
Your statements in bold
Ali can you tell me how can a flood thats been localized kill all the inhabitants of the world, how is it possible that such a major event can be localized.

Are you referring to the flood of Noah? Well, I never said that the flood was localized and I never said that it killed all the inhabitants of the world. I do not know whether it killed everyone or only Noah's people or was it for only one piece of land or for entire world. I only said that according to the Bible, the flood took place 21st or 22 century BC and according to Science, there were other civilizations present at that time. Either Science is wrong or the Bible is.
Peace
 
ALI I AM SURE THE SCIENCTIST IS WRONG AND GOD IS RIGHT.
 
Ali here is your is post and you say you never said that or are only refering to the Quran.
 
Qur�anic presentation of the story of Noah and the flood does not conflict with scientific evidence or archaeological data; firstly, the Qur�an does not indicate any specific date or year of the occurance of that event, and secondly, according to the Qur�an the flood was not a universal phenomenon which destroyed complete life on earth. In fact the Qur�an specifically mentions that the flood was a localised event only involving the people of Noah.
 
The water had taken hundred and fifty days to go down thats very long for a localized flood my  friend I think the authors of the Quran got it all wrong like Noah's "fourth son" who drowned in  the flood.
 

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Gen 7:14 they, and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort.

Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh wherein is the breath of life.

Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God commanded him: and Jehovah shut him in.

Gen 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth.

Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high mountains that were under the whole heaven were covered.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both birds, and cattle, and beasts, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

Gen 7:22 all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died.

Gen 7:23 And every living thing was destroyed that was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only was left, and they that were with him in the ark.

Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days.

 

But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded. Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed, and the rain had stopped falling from the sky. The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. Genesis 8

An area of criticism applied by Muslim apologists against the Holy Bible and in support of the Quran is the issue of Noah's flood. Following the example set by Dr. Maurice Bucaille in his book, The Bible, the Qur'an & Science, Muslims assert that whereas the Holy Bible wrongly teaches a universal flood the Quran however, in agreement with both modern science and archeology, affirms that the flood during Noah's time was a local event. The Quran clearly teaches that the flood only affected the people of Noah and did not stretch across the entire globe.

Unfortunately, many who are not familiar with the Quran or the early Islamic writings are left with the impression that the Quran inarguably teaches that the flood of Noah's day was merely a local event. The problem with this is that the Muslim apologists who make such statements must often read into the text something not explicitly stated and/or ignore the early Muslim exegetes and their interpretation of Quranic passages dealing with the flood.

For example, the Quran never says that the flood affected only the people living within close proximity to Noah and his family. The only reason why the Quran singles out the people of Noah is simply due to the fact that the Islamic scripture is recording the message Noah proclaimed to his contemporaries. It has absolutely nothing to do with the extent of the flood since it would be impossible for the Quran to include all the peoples of the world in these passages seeing that they had never heard Noah's preaching.

Furthermore, there are passages in the Quran where a universal flood is clearly implied, if not explicitly stated. In fact, these very same passages are appealed to by Muslim writers, such as al-Tabari, to support the fact that the flood was universal. Before proceeding to the Muslim writings, let us first examine the Quranic witness to the universality of Noah's flood:

"At length, behold! There came Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: `Embark therein, of each two, male and female, and your family- except those against whom the Word has already gone forth,- and the believers.' But only a few believed with him." S. 11:40

"Then the word went forth: `O earth! Swallow up thy water, and O sky! withhold (thy rain)! And the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: `Away with those who do wrong!'" S. 11:44.

 


Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 05 March 2010 at 3:23am
Salam Jouberar
Your post=bold
ALI I AM SURE THE SCIENCTIST IS WRONG AND GOD IS RIGHT.

So science is wrong and Bible is right. And plants were created before the sun, sun was created after the Earth, and Earth was created in six days. I suppose these are all "facts" according to you?
Ali here is your is post and you say you never said that or are only refering to the Quran.
Read the top of my post you are quoting. All of it is a reply to the allegation that Quran has been copied from the Bible. Instead of giving my own reply, I quoted a scholar and gave a link. According to him (not me), the flood was localized. According to some other scholars, the flood was not localized. So I was right that I never said that the flood was localized or universal.
The water had taken hundred and fifty days to go down thats very long for a localized flood my friend
Where did you get the idea that water had taken a hundred and fifty days to clear up? Was it the Bible? Well, if we are all assuming that Bible is historically authentic, then you and the Bible is right and me, Quran and science is wrong. But we are not assuming that Bible is historically authentic. First you have to prove that Bible is authentic then quote it. And that prove has to be on the basis of science (which you ironically reject).
I think the authors of the Quran got it all wrong like Noah's "fourth son" who drowned in the flood
First off, Quran, unlike the Bible, has only one Author. And again you are assuming the Bible to be right here.
An area of criticism applied by Muslim apologists against the Holy Bible and in support of the Quran is the issue of Noah's flood. Following the example set by Dr. Maurice Bucaille in his book, The Bible, the Qur'an & Science, Muslims assert that whereas the Holy Bible wrongly teaches a universal flood the Quran however, in agreement with both modern science and archeology, affirms that the flood during Noah's time was a local event.
Well, even if we assume that Noah's flood was global, Quran does not give a date. So archeologists have no problem if we say that there was a global or a local flood at any time in history, hence both of the interpretations of Quran do not contradict with science. However, Bible gives us the date of that global flood, in which many civilizations of the world existed. Hence, Bible contradicts science.
Unfortunately, many who are not familiar with the Quran or the early Islamic writings are left with the impression that the Quran inarguably teaches that the flood of Noah's day was merely a local event.
I've said it before, Quran neither says that it was global nor does it confirm that it was local. You are missing the key point here which is that Quran does not give us a date and the Bible does, which contradicts science.
For example, the Quran never says that the flood affected only the people living within close proximity to Noah and his family.
:). So Quran doesn't say that flood only destroyed the people of Noah, hence the flood destroyed everyone. Now Quran tells us many tales about nations who were destroyed by God. The people of Aad were punished by thunder and lightning and were destroyed. God doesn't say that only those guys were destroyed, does that mean that everyone on Earth got killed? Furthermore, Quran tells us a story about a garden which was destroyed to punish a his owner. But it doesn't say that only that garden was destroyed, does that mean that every garden on Earth was also destroyed?
Furthermore, there are passages in the Quran where a universal flood is clearly implied, if not explicitly stated. In fact, these very same passages are appealed to by Muslim writers, such as al-Tabari, to support the fact that the flood was universal.
Like I said before, some scholars say that flood was universal. Tabari must be one of them.
"At length, behold! There came Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: `Embark therein, of each two, male and female, and your family- except those against whom the Word has already gone forth,- and the believers.' But only a few believed with him." S. 11:40

"Then the word went forth: `O earth! Swallow up thy water, and O sky! withhold (thy rain)! And the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: `Away with those who do wrong!'" S. 11:44.

The verses you quoted don't explicitly say that the entire Earth was submerged. The thing is, Quran is written in a very poetic fashion hence if God tells Earth to "swallow up your water" it does not mean that "you were entirely covered with water and now swallow it" :).
I've just argued that Quran doesn't explicitly say that the entire Earth was submerged. But suppose if I agree that the Earth was submerged, still, Quran will not contradict science. That is because Quran does not tell us when the flood occurred, but the Bible does. So let's assume for the sake of argument and conciliation that the whole Earth was submerged. Now explain to me, why does Bible contradict science?
Peace


Posted By: Douggg
Date Posted: 07 March 2010 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by robin robin wrote:

How would you answer the question:

 

What is a Christian according to the teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in The Holy Bible?



A Christian is someone who is a new creation "in Christ".   A Christian is someone who has been born again by the Holy Spirit.    If a person has not been born again and has not the Holy Spirit, that person is not of Christ .. i.e. not a Christian.  

Romans 3:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

When Jesus entered this world, how was he born, how was that facilitated?

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus's birth came by the Holy Spirit, and a Christian is someone who has been borne again by the Holy Spirit, a new creation "in Christ". 


Doug L.


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 08 March 2010 at 7:35am
Originally posted by _ALI_ _ALI_ wrote:

Salam Jouberar
Your post=bold
ALI I AM SURE THE SCIENCTIST IS WRONG AND GOD IS RIGHT.

So science is wrong and Bible is right. And plants were created before the sun, sun was created after the Earth, and Earth was created in six days. I suppose these are all "facts" according to you?
Ali here is your is post and you say you never said that or are only refering to the Quran.
Read the top of my post you are quoting. All of it is a reply to the allegation that Quran has been copied from the Bible. Instead of giving my own reply, I quoted a scholar and gave a link. According to him (not me), the flood was localized. According to some other scholars, the flood was not localized. So I was right that I never said that the flood was localized or universal.
The water had taken hundred and fifty days to go down thats very long for a localized flood my friend
Where did you get the idea that water had taken a hundred and fifty days to clear up? Was it the Bible? Well, if we are all assuming that Bible is historically authentic, then you and the Bible is right and me, Quran and science is wrong. But we are not assuming that Bible is historically authentic. First you have to prove that Bible is authentic then quote it. And that prove has to be on the basis of science (which you ironically reject).
I think the authors of the Quran got it all wrong like Noah's "fourth son" who drowned in the flood
First off, Quran, unlike the Bible, has only one Author. And again you are assuming the Bible to be right here.
An area of criticism applied by Muslim apologists against the Holy Bible and in support of the Quran is the issue of Noah's flood. Following the example set by Dr. Maurice Bucaille in his book, The Bible, the Qur'an & Science, Muslims assert that whereas the Holy Bible wrongly teaches a universal flood the Quran however, in agreement with both modern science and archeology, affirms that the flood during Noah's time was a local event.
Well, even if we assume that Noah's flood was global, Quran does not give a date. So archeologists have no problem if we say that there was a global or a local flood at any time in history, hence both of the interpretations of Quran do not contradict with science. However, Bible gives us the date of that global flood, in which many civilizations of the world existed. Hence, Bible contradicts science.
Unfortunately, many who are not familiar with the Quran or the early Islamic writings are left with the impression that the Quran inarguably teaches that the flood of Noah's day was merely a local event.
I've said it before, Quran neither says that it was global nor does it confirm that it was local. You are missing the key point here which is that Quran does not give us a date and the Bible does, which contradicts science.
For example, the Quran never says that the flood affected only the people living within close proximity to Noah and his family.
:). So Quran doesn't say that flood only destroyed the people of Noah, hence the flood destroyed everyone. Now Quran tells us many tales about nations who were destroyed by God. The people of Aad were punished by thunder and lightning and were destroyed. God doesn't say that only those guys were destroyed, does that mean that everyone on Earth got killed? Furthermore, Quran tells us a story about a garden which was destroyed to punish a his owner. But it doesn't say that only that garden was destroyed, does that mean that every garden on Earth was also destroyed?
Furthermore, there are passages in the Quran where a universal flood is clearly implied, if not explicitly stated. In fact, these very same passages are appealed to by Muslim writers, such as al-Tabari, to support the fact that the flood was universal.
Like I said before, some scholars say that flood was universal. Tabari must be one of them.
"At length, behold! There came Our Command, and the fountains of the earth gushed forth! We said: `Embark therein, of each two, male and female, and your family- except those against whom the Word has already gone forth,- and the believers.' But only a few believed with him." S. 11:40

"Then the word went forth: `O earth! Swallow up thy water, and O sky! withhold (thy rain)! And the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: `Away with those who do wrong!'" S. 11:44.

The verses you quoted don't explicitly say that the entire Earth was submerged. The thing is, Quran is written in a very poetic fashion hence if God tells Earth to "swallow up your water" it does not mean that "you were entirely covered with water and now swallow it" :).
I've just argued that Quran doesn't explicitly say that the entire Earth was submerged. But suppose if I agree that the Earth was submerged, still, Quran will not contradict science. That is because Quran does not tell us when the flood occurred, but the Bible does. So let's assume for the sake of argument and conciliation that the whole Earth was submerged. Now explain to me, why does Bible contradict science?
Peace
 
By the way I said scientist is wrong not science according to your speculation that the global flood was a localised flood .
 
 Where does the bible contradict science is it simply cos the Quran could specify the date that flood occured while the bible can specify it then it is a contradiction but not when the Quran can specify it.
 

The Quran in Surah 11:42 & 43 says that one of the sons of Noah refused to go into the Ark and was drowned in the flood, while the Bible says that all three sons of Noah went into the Ark with him and were saved from the flood,while the Bible says that all three sons of Noah went into the Ark with him and were saved from the flood (Genesis 7:7).


Surah 11:42 I wonder who removed this from the bible.
 
In Surah 11:44 the Quran says that the Ark came to rest on top of
mount Judi, While the Bible says that it was Mount Ararat (Genesis 8:4).
 
This clearly show you authentacity of the bible in comparison with the Quran's mangled stories.This shows it is global but it seems to me that you are confused about the Quran statements that you can not give me the exact answer if the flood was local or global.

Gen 7:5 And Noah did according unto all that Jehovah commanded him.

Gen 7:6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

Gen 7:7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

Gen 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creepeth upon the ground,

Gen 7:9 there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, male and female, as God commanded Noah.

Gen 7:10 And it came to pass after the seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Gen 7:14 they, and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort.

Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh wherein is the breath of life.

Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God commanded him: and Jehovah shut him in.

Gen 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth.

Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high mountains that were under the whole heaven were covered.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both birds, and cattle, and beasts, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

Gen 7:22 all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died.

Gen 7:23 And every living thing was destroyed that was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only was left, and they that were with him in the ark.

Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days.



Posted By: _ALI_
Date Posted: 12 March 2010 at 1:06am
Salam JOUBERAR
Your statements=bold
By the way I said scientist is wrong not science

Opinions of Science and scientists is the same. It's not like science says that Earth is round and scientists say that the Earth is flat.
according to your speculation that the global flood was a localised flood .
Have you even read my posts? I have said again and again that I do not know whether the flood was localized or not. In fact, In my previous post, I said that let us assume that the flood was global. Now can you tell us why Bible contradicts Science?
Where does the bible contradict science is it simply cos the Quran could specify the date that flood occured while the bible can specify it then it is a contradiction but not when the Quran can specify it.
I am not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate? And since Bible gives a date of global flood in which many noted civilizations were alive, that is why it contradicts science. Isn't that so simple to understand? Now Quran doesn't give a date so how can it contradict science here?
The Quran in Surah 11:42 & 43 says that one of the sons of Noah refused to go into the Ark and was drowned in the flood, while the Bible says that all three sons of Noah went into the Ark with him and were saved from the flood,while the Bible says that all three sons of Noah went into the Ark with him and were saved from the flood (Genesis 7:7)
So you're saying here that since Quran contradicts Bible, it is wrong. And I am saying here that since Bible contradicts Quran, Bible is wrong.
In Surah 11:44 the Quran says that the Ark came to rest on top of
mount Judi, While the Bible says that it was Mount Ararat (Genesis 8:4)

You are quoting stuff to strengthen my belief that Bible is wrong because it contradicts Quran.
This clearly show you authentacity of the bible in comparison with the Quran's mangled stories.This shows it is global but it seems to me that you are confused about the Quran statements that you can not give me the exact answer if the flood was local or global.
I have given you a very clear answer again and again and the answer is simply : I don't know. I am not confused about the statements of Quran, I'm merely proving that those statements do not specify whether the flood was global or not. But As I said, let us assume that the flood was global, Now can you tell me why Bible contradicts science instead of going in circles again and again and dodging the main question?
Gen 7:5 And Noah did according unto all that Jehovah commanded him.

Gen 7:6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

Gen 7:7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

Gen 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creepeth upon the ground,

Gen 7:9 there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, male and female, as God commanded Noah.

Gen 7:10 And it came to pass after the seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Gen 7:14 they, and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort.

Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh wherein is the breath of life.

Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God commanded him: and Jehovah shut him in.

Gen 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth.

Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high mountains that were under the whole heaven were covered.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both birds, and cattle, and beasts, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

Gen 7:22 all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died.

Gen 7:23 And every living thing was destroyed that was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only was left, and they that were with him in the ark.

Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days.

Yes I completely agree that according to the Bible, the flood was global. According to the Quran, the flood can be local or global. It is irrelevant. The main point is, which you have continuously dodged in our previous discussion and will dodge in the next, that Bible specifies when that global incidence took place. At that time, there were numerous civilizations present according to science. Now who should I believe? Either the science and Quran is wrong and Bible is right or either the Bible is wrong and science and Quran is right. You tell me
Peace


Posted By: JOUBERAR
Date Posted: 12 March 2010 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by _ALI_ _ALI_ wrote:

Salam JOUBERAR
Your statements=bold
By the way I said scientist is wrong not science

Opinions of Science and scientists is the same. It's not like science says that Earth is round and scientists say that the Earth is flat.
according to your speculation that the global flood was a localised flood .
Have you even read my posts? I have said again and again that I do not know whether the flood was localized or not. In fact, In my previous post, I said that let us assume that the flood was global. Now can you tell us why Bible contradicts Science?
Where does the bible contradict science is it simply cos the Quran could specify the date that flood occured while the bible can specify it then it is a contradiction but not when the Quran can specify it.
I am not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate? And since Bible gives a date of global flood in which many noted civilizations were alive, that is why it contradicts science. Isn't that so simple to understand? Now Quran doesn't give a date so how can it contradict science here?
The Quran in Surah 11:42 & 43 says that one of the sons of Noah refused to go into the Ark and was drowned in the flood, while the Bible says that all three sons of Noah went into the Ark with him and were saved from the flood,while the Bible says that all three sons of Noah went into the Ark with him and were saved from the flood (Genesis 7:7)
So you're saying here that since Quran contradicts Bible, it is wrong. And I am saying here that since Bible contradicts Quran, Bible is wrong.
In Surah 11:44 the Quran says that the Ark came to rest on top of
mount Judi, While the Bible says that it was Mount Ararat (Genesis 8:4)

You are quoting stuff to strengthen my belief that Bible is wrong because it contradicts Quran.
This clearly show you authentacity of the bible in comparison with the Quran's mangled stories.This shows it is global but it seems to me that you are confused about the Quran statements that you can not give me the exact answer if the flood was local or global.
I have given you a very clear answer again and again and the answer is simply : I don't know. I am not confused about the statements of Quran, I'm merely proving that those statements do not specify whether the flood was global or not. But As I said, let us assume that the flood was global, Now can you tell me why Bible contradicts science instead of going in circles again and again and dodging the main question?
Gen 7:5 And Noah did according unto all that Jehovah commanded him.

Gen 7:6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

Gen 7:7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

Gen 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of birds, and of everything that creepeth upon the ground,

Gen 7:9 there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, male and female, as God commanded Noah.

Gen 7:10 And it came to pass after the seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Gen 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

Gen 7:14 they, and every beast after its kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind, and every bird after its kind, every bird of every sort.

Gen 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh wherein is the breath of life.

Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God commanded him: and Jehovah shut him in.

Gen 7:17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth.

Gen 7:18 And the waters prevailed, and increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high mountains that were under the whole heaven were covered.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both birds, and cattle, and beasts, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

Gen 7:22 all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, of all that was on the dry land, died.

Gen 7:23 And every living thing was destroyed that was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only was left, and they that were with him in the ark.

Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days.

Yes I completely agree that according to the Bible, the flood was global. According to the Quran, the flood can be local or global. It is irrelevant. The main point is, which you have continuously dodged in our previous discussion and will dodge in the next, that Bible specifies when that global incidence took place. At that time, there were numerous civilizations present according to science. Now who should I believe? Either the science and Quran is wrong and Bible is right or either the Bible is wrong and science and Quran is right. You tell me
Peace
 
Scientist already proofed it that the flood was global go and look at the websites.
 
Here is one source that you can do some research on.
 
Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood
Part Four of a Five-Part Series on The Age of the Earth.

 

Two Vastly Different World Views, with Vastly Different Conclusions:
Let's not kid ourselves.  What this is all about is whether or not the Old Testament book of Genesis (along with the rest of the Old Testament, and the New Testament) is an accurate account of what happened around 4600 years ago with regard to a worldwide flood, and about 6000 years ago, with regard to Creation itself.

Was virtually all of the sedimentary strata laid down by a single Worldwide Deluge in a short amount of time, or is the evolutionary scenario of slow change, acting over eons of T-I-M-E, and the associated Geological Time Chart (with its millions and millions of years) a more accurate account of Earth history?

It's also about God's future judgment of mankind.  That's because Jesus Christ, Himself, related the Great Flood of Noah's day to His own return to earth to reign over it and the people in it.  See http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2017:20-27;&version=49; - Luke 17:20-27 , http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019:11-27;&version=49; - 19:11-27 ; http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%205:22-23;&version=49; - John 5:22-23 , http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2012:32;&version=49; - 12:32 , and http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev.%2020:4-15;&version=49; - Rev. 20:4-15 .

Let's Look at the Evidence:
The following are 18 Evidences of either massive flooding and erosion, extremely rapid layering of strata, or direct evidence of a Worldwide Flood.  Such evidences are found in numerous places on virtually every Continent.  

Polystrate Fossils: 
One of the strongest pieces of evidence for a worldwide flood is the existence of what Rupke termed "polystrate fossils."  Such fossils are found all over the world.  They usually consist of fossil  trees that were buried upright, and which often traverse multiple  layers of strata such as sandstone, limestone, shale, and even http://www.earthage.org/Upright%20Trees%20in%20Coal.htm - coal beds. 1,2,3,4  They range in size from small rootlets to trees over 80 feet long. 3
   Sometimes they are oblique in relation to the surrounding strata, but more often they are perpendicular to it.  For example, at Joggins, Nova Scotia, polystrate  tree (and root) fossils are found at various intervals throughout roughly 2,500 feet of strata. Many of these are from 10-20 feet  long,  5,6 and, at least  one was  http://www.earthage.org/polystrate/Fossil%20Trees%20of%20Nova%20Scotia.htm#A Mysterious%2040%20Foot%20Fossil%20Tree: - 40 feet long . 5,6,7  

Very few of these upright fossil trees have attached roots, and only about  http://www.earthage.org/polystrate/Early%20Mississippian%20lycopsid%20forests.htm - 1 in 50 8  have both roots and rootlets attached.  Such trees, and their -- more often than not -- missing roots, are discussed in much more detail in  http://www.earthage.org/polystrate/Fossil%20Trees%20of%20Nova%20Scotia.htm - The "Fossil Forests" of Nova Scotia . 9  Likewise, many (if not most) of the large, fragmented, and  broken-off  http://museum.gov.ns.ca/fossils/gallery/specimen/967121.htm - Stigmaria  roots are also http://www.shropshireonline.gov.uk/llmrc.nsf/open/Stigmaria - missing their http://www.xs4all.nl/~steurh/lpd/stigm2.html - rootlets .

Many of these roots and rootlets, are also buried individually. 9  This strongly  suggests that these trees did not grow in the same places where they were buried, but rather were  uprooted and re-deposited there.  

Similar circumstances occur at various other places in Nova Scotia, as well as in the United States, England, Germany, and France.  Another place where large tree stumps are preserved without their roots attached is  http://www.earthage.org/youngearthev/evidence_for_a_young_earth.htm#Axel%20Heiberg%20and%20Ellsemere%20Islands: - Axel Heiberg  10,11 Island in Northern Canada.

And although there is much data on buried trees in the geological literature, most of it is over 100 years old, and difficult to access.  One of the few articles on this subject was by Rupke, and in it he comments that:

�Personally, I am of the opinion that the polystrate fossils  constitute a crucial phenomenon  both to the actuality and the mechanism of cataclysmic deposition.  Curiously  a  paper on  polystrate fossils appears to be a  'black swan�  in geological literature.  Antecedent to this synopsis a systematic discussion of  the relevant  phenomena was never published.  However, geologists must have been informed about these fossils.  In view of this it seems unintelligible that uniformitarianism has kept its dominant position.



Posted By: swordofallah
Date Posted: 28 March 2010 at 9:08pm
Salam ~ Nur_Ilahi

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THATS THE CUTEST LIL PICTURE YA GOT THERE !



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