Fate
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: General Islamic Matter
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URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15017
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Topic: Fate
Posted By: seekshidayath
Subject: Fate
Date Posted: 11 July 2009 at 8:44am
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All praise is for Allah swt, We praise Him and seek His help and forgiveness We were discussing fate/ destiny. Happened to read a new concept, "administered fate" posted by our sister - Nur. As we were going off-topic. so thought to continue here. Though i may not go deeper into its discussion, as its not allowed. Am just sharing few hadiths, which show that there's no such concept of administered fate. What do you say sister, of Umm Salamah, of whom Chrysalis shared ? Here are the hadiths Abu Dawud collected this Hadith from Ahmad bin Hanbal. Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin `Umar said that the Messenger of Allah said,"Every thing is predetermined, even laziness and intelligence". There is also an authentic Hadith in which the Messenger of Allah said,Seek the help of Allah and do not succumb to feebleness. And when an affliction strikes you, say, "Allah has decreed this, and He does as He wills.'' Do not say, "Had I done this or that, this or that would have happened, because "if'' opens the door wide for the work of Ash-Shaytan If we believe in administered faith, we may get these sorts of whisperings, is n't it ? While when i leave those strivings which you called as administered faith, as mere strivings in the way of Allah swt, and the results as from Allah swt, then its very simple. In a Hadith from `Abbas, the Messenger of Allah said to him,Know that if the Ummah were to all gather their strength to cause you some benefit that Allah has not decreed for you, they will never be able to bring you that benefit. And if they gather their strength to bring a harm to you that Allah has not written on you, they will never be able to harm you. The pens have gone dry and the Books of Record have been closed. How will my administered fate work, when Allah swt already ordains. Can you help me to understand this concept under the light of above hadith ? ------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Replies:
Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 12 July 2009 at 7:47am
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Dear S Hidayah, What you are quoting above is all about Natural Fate from this phrase - LAHAULAWALA QUWWATA ILLA BILLAHILIYILADZEEM. And Administered Fate - Verily, never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change what is within themselves" (Holy Quran 13:11). I searched for a better explanation than my own which is similar to what I was taught and what I understand and Alhamdulillah, I found this - There�re 3 forms of creed worthy of discussion regarding God's attribute Al-Qudrah: Qadariyyah �
some people believe that whatever happens is solely an outcome of their
own effort. God gave the power to man to initiate, but God has no say
in the result. This creed is rejected and deemed fasiq (defiant). How
did the Qadaris come up with the idea that man determine their own
destiny? The reality is that so many people live in misery, poverty,
and affliction, even though almost all of them make every effort to
live well. The best of things (position) is the middle one. Unfortunately, many of the Muslims have become �Jabaris� without them admitting it. We can conclude this from their sayings and actions:
What goodness rewarded upon you is from Allah, and what hardship afflicted upon you is from yourself. Notes from Ustaz Zakaria:
------------- Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention. |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 12 July 2009 at 9:31am
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As Salamu Alaikum,Nur and Seek.(Alhamduillah!)good job both of you.What goodness rewarded upon you is from Allah, and what hardship afflicted upon you is from yourself.MashAllah!
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Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 6:55am
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I would like to relate something that has got to do with Fate. Marriage. Some Muslims say when a marriage broke down, we blame it on Fate. In Tasawwuf, it is a sin to blame Allah. If we see carefully, the reasons why marriages broke down is because of ego or Nafs. It could be from one party or it could be from both. Some Muslimahs are unable to find husbands and some will say, it is fated that they are still single. I do not think so. We have to return to the reason why we marry. What is the purpose of marriage. If it is only for sex, for status or for economic reasons. then we have deviated from the real reason. Islam had given guidelines as to how to find partnes in life. 1. Religion. 2. An acceptable appearance. 3. A compatible social and educational/mental level. Perhaps the reasons many Muslimah still stay single is because, they have too much aspirations in their partners. Maybe some would disagree? ------------- Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention. |
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 6:40pm
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As Salamu Alaikum Sister, the ayah you quoted, "Verily, never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change what is within themselves" (Holy Quran 13:11)." is in reference to a group / nation. Else word, "Person" would have been used. I don't say that the life of a person completely depends on efforts of man, or completely is controlled by fate. What you called as administered fate, i call it striving for the cause to reach natural fate. However there are some areas of our fate that do change by our duas made. I do agree that its wrong to accuse or blame Allah swt for any loss of our life .Its not just in Tasawwuf, Islam teaches us not to accuse Allah swt. The cases you discussed for instance a divorce - whats wrong if one says that, it was destined by Allah swt ? Take the case of Zaid bin Harith and Zainab bint Jahsh RA, they were divorced and wished to be separated. It was destined ! However most of the sites share these views of scholars Scholars derive that destiny is of two types: a) Muallaq (revocable): This destiny is written on �The Preserved Tablet� (al Lawh al Mahfoodh), and is subject to change and alteration through the omission or commission of certain deeds. For example: the lifespan of a person is originally 50 years, but may increase to 60 years if he performs the ritual of Hajj, or a certain calamity is to befall him unless he averts it by spending in charity. This is the destiny refereed to in the aforementioned narration. b) Mubram (irrevocable): This destiny denotes the eternal knowledge of Allah. It encompasses the final result of the Muallaq destiny i.e. our choice of actions, their consequences and every precise detail of our lives. This definite knowledge of Allah is not subject to change or alter even slightly and is exclusive to Allah only. In the light of the above the following may be derived: Our supplications do change destiny and are of much avail. Good deeds are a source of increase in ones sustenance, and avert calamities. Sins result in a decrease in ones sustenance, and invite calamities. We cannot know what is Muallaq and Mubram of a person. It varies. For instance, to get a job may be Mubram for me and Muallaq for you. I give my 100% of efforts {these efforts also include my prayers {duas} and strive, finally i get what am destined. I accept any decision of Allah swt that gives me full satisfaction. 64:11. No calamity befalls, but with the Leave [i.e. decision and Qadar (Divine Preordainments) ] of All�h, and whosoever believes in All�h, He guides his heart [to the true Faith with certainty, i.e. what has befallen him was already written for him by All�h from the Qadar (Divine Preordainments) ], and All�h is the All-Knower of everything. " This ayah would give a muslim lots of support when calamity befalls. Else, if i look thru your views, i may think it was only because of my wrong efforts/approach. While if i take the result as will of Allah swt, am free of any kind of stress. Ofcourse, we need to check our approach, but not all are always wrong ! ------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 4:03am
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Waalaikum Salam Sis Hidayah. First of all I would like to apologize for the late reply. As you know, lately, I tire easily and got no mood to sign in. I am just waiting for my daughter who had just got a job as a teacher in the Ministry of Education to get stablized in her job. I wish to retire, hopefully before Ramadhan next year. InshaAllah! Hidayah, you wrote - Sister, the ayah you quoted, "Verily, never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change what is within themselves" (Holy Quran 13:11)." is in reference to a group / nation. Else word, "Person" would have been used. You would not have a people without a person right? Everything starts from the individual remember? I don't say that the life of a person completely depends on efforts of man, or completely is controlled by fate. What you called as administered fate, i call it striving for the cause to reach natural fate. -Your striving is an act that you put an effort to administer your fate. For example there is apples hanging on the tree courtesy of the natural fate that Allah had given, If the farmer did not put an effort to water the plant, put in fertilizers, would the apple tree grow with abundance for the farmer to sell? If you do not put an effort to get a ladder to climb and get the apple, would the apples drop onto your lap just with your dua? However there are some areas of our fate that do change by our duas made. - Definitely, but with sincerity and after doing our part . For example, we ask Allah to give us long life, but at the same time, we eat all kinds of food that are dangerous to our health. Will our dua be makbul (accepted by Allah)? The cases you discussed for instance a divorce - whats wrong if one says that, it was destined by Allah swt ? Take the case of Zaid bin Harith and Zainab bint Jahsh RA, they were divorced and wished to be separated. It was destined ! However most of the sites share these views of scholars In the beginning, we were taught to choose a partner based on 1. Appearance 2. Status 3. Iman or piety The best of course is to base it on taqwa or iman or piety to Allah. If we are lucky enough, we will be gifted with all these three. In the case of Zaid and Zainab it was destined that they were to be separated, due to the status. Zaid an ex-slave and Zainab being a daughter of the Wealthy Quraish tribe. Scholars derive that destiny is of two types: a) Muallaq (revocable):- Does this not fit the meaninf of Administered Fate? b) Mubram (irrevocable): And this Natural Fate? Our supplications do change destiny and are of much avail. - Yes, but first we have to exert the Natural Fate (Attributes of the Ruh that Allah had given) that is - Qudrah (power) Iradhah (will) Ilm (knowledge) Hayah (life - during our lifetime) Sama� (the power of hearing) Basar (the power of seeing). How we apply these attributes in our daily life is administered Fate. Good deeds are a source of increase in ones sustenance, and avert calamities. - Yes. Because we are doing something that is natural to us, that is we are born in the state of Fitrah - Pure - Innocent, Clean Good. We are returning to our Natural Fate. Sins result in a decrease in ones sustenance, and invite calamities. - True. Let us define sin in tasawwuf. What is sin? Sin is a feeling of turbulence - unrest, instability, tumult, chaos because we are going away from Fitrah. Doing something that is against the Rules of Allah. We cannot know what is Muallaq and Mubram of a person. It varies. For instance, to get a job may be Mubram for me and Muallaq for you. Let us be like Ahlussunnah wal jamaah - To apply both these meanings in our everyday life. For example, when I was unemployed a few years back, I would never get a job just by waiting for someone to call me and give the job to me. I have to exert some kind of effort in order for me to get a job. Open up newspapers for job vacancies, or looking up the internet or calling your friends that you are in need of a job. Alhamdulillah, I got a job recommended to me by a friend of mine. If I were to just wait at home, only doing dua after solah, without making any effort, I am being unfair if I blame God that I was not granted my wish. I give my 100% of efforts {these efforts also include my prayers {duas} and strive, - This is Administered Fate. finally i get what am destined. I accept any decision of Allah swt that gives me full satisfaction. - And this is Natural Fate. So Hidayah, I will conclude that you are an Ahlusunnah waljamaah, because you had applied both this concept in administering your own fate. ------------- Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention. |
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 4:50am
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As Salamu Alaikum Finally, we are on similar lines  . JazakiAllahu khayr for the discussions. I learnt more about fate.------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 6:49am
I enjoyed reading this. Thanks  ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |
seekshidayath wrote:Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 7:29am
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[QUOTE=Nur_Ilahi]Waalaikum Salam Sis Hidayah. I call this faith, not administered fate. Is there a difference? Depending how we exercise faith then that decides our fate However there are some areas of our fate that do change by our duas made. - Definitely, but with sincerity and after doing our part . For example, we ask Allah to give us long life, but at the same time, we eat all kinds of food that are dangerous to our health. Will our dua be makbul (accepted by Allah)?
This again is faith, surely. And obedience to Allah. HOw is that fate?
Our supplications do change destiny and are of much avail. - Yes, but first we have to exert the Natural Fate (Attributes of the Ruh that Allah had given) that is - Qudrah (power) Iradhah (will) Ilm (knowledge) Hayah (life - during our lifetime) Sama� (the power of hearing) Basar (the power of seeing). How we apply these attributes in our daily life is administered Fate. Faith? And , as you say,using those wonderful attributes of a human body Allah has given us. If we don't use them correctly then we insult Allah
Good deeds are a source of increase in ones sustenance, and avert calamities.
Not necessarily- they can be.
- Yes. .(Not necessarily) Because we are doing something that is natural to us, that is we are born in the state of Fitrah - Pure - Innocent, Clean Good. We are returning to our Natural Fate.
Sins result in a decrease in ones sustenance, and invite calamities. - True. No, no, no! Not necessarily!!! - they can do Let us define sin in tasawwuf. What is sin? Sin is a feeling of turbulence - unrest, instability, tumult, chaos because we are going away from Fitrah. Doing something that is against the Rules of Allah.
Oh dear....people sin and have a great time and IGNORE these feelings you describe.....HOWEVER I believe ONE day the sins will disturb them. Shaytan makes the sinners feel they are doing ok at sinning, so it will be pleasurable for a time. . .For example, when I was unemployed a few years back, I would never get a job just by waiting for someone to call me and give the job to me. I have to exert some kind of effort in order for me to get a job. Open up newspapers for job vacancies, or looking up the internet or calling your friends that you are in need of a job. Alhamdulillah, I got a job recommended to me by a friend of mine. If I were to just wait at home, only doing dua after solah, without making any effort, I am being unfair if I blame God that I was not granted my wish.
This is called exercising faith
 Really I am confused. Help me out here.I give my 100% of efforts {these efforts also include my prayers {duas} and strive, - This is Administered Fate. finally i get what am destined. I accept any decision of Allah swt that gives me full satisfaction. - And this is Natural Fate. This is the reward for exercising your faith.
 Allah knows our destiny(fate) long before we do, but Allah still needs to test us. I give you an example. For those who are parents. We see our children grow and develop. You give them rules to follow. SOmetimes they obey, sometimes they don't. But the majority of parents will STILL allow the child to err...as a growing lesson. Lets face it...I am sure we know our kids well enough to know how they will react to a certain situation. Bingo! Allah is the same.
Am I making sense here? Or am I way off line somewhere ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 8:23am
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Hello Martha , Glad to see you active now-a-days at IC. I see you reading and responding to Islamic articles. So i conclude that you are studying Islam ! Fate is bit complicated issue. Even in Islam its said, we shud n't go deep in its discussion. If you have understood the above post, its enough. What do you say sister Nur, hope you advice her the same. {insha Allah, when you study Islam more, i mean its other aspects, it shall give you more understanding. ------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: Nur_Ilahi
Date Posted: 18 July 2009 at 10:36pm
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Dear Martha, I will try my best to elaborate on this subject Fate. You wrote - I call this faith, not administered fate. Is there a difference? Depending how we exercise faith then that decides our fate Waiting for the apple to fall onto your lap is faith. You know it will drop sometime. Yes indeed it will fall onto your lap, but most probably, you have to wait for hours and hours for your �faith� to materialize. We are given the will to determine our fate, why not use it by employing some kinds of mean for this faith to manifest. In this case, get a ladder and climb up to taste the sweetness of the apple. Apply this to our everyday life. We believe in Allah, we believe in Islam. Is it sufficient? Allah had given us the will, the power to increase our knowledge by seeking it and after acquiring these knowledge, it is not enough, we have to practice it. In other words, knowledge and action or in Islam ilm and aml must go hand in hand. This again is faith, surely. And obedience to Allah. HOw is that fate? When you supplicate to Allah for long life, that is faith. Because you know that He is As-Sami� - All Hearing. When you follow Allah�s commands for example fasting is good physically and spiritually, you are obedient to Allah. When you follow these commands with faith, you are setting your fate in a positive manner. Faith? And , as you say,using those wonderful attributes of a human body Allah has given us. If we don't use them correctly then we insult Allah Qudrah, Iradhah, Ilm, hayah, Sama�, Basar, Qalam - these are attributes of The Ruh or spirits/souls not the human body. Applying this wisely in our everyday life, will increase our Faith as well as our Fate. Use it wrongly we are only doing harm to no one but ourselves. We are only insulting our ourselves but not Allah. Good deeds are a source of increase in ones sustenance, and avert calamities. Not necessarily- they can be. These are meant spiritually, not necessary physically. The feeling of peace and calm are felt not by any of our physical parts, but felt by our heart/souls. Oh dear....people sin and have a great time and IGNORE these feelings you describe.....HOWEVER I believe ONE day the sins will disturb them. Shaytan makes the sinners feel they are doing ok at sinning, so it will be pleasurable for a time. Martha, we all were born in the state of Fitrah - Pure. It is how we were brought up. If we were brought up the evil way, we are suppressing the Fitrah that is in us. The Evil is not compatible with the Fitrah, The Fitrah will stay dormant. They indeed IGNORE the tuggings of the conscience, because they do not worship The Creator instead they worship Shaythan. But there is a possibility that The Dormant Fitrah may surface one day. That is why you see lots of people embracing Islam willingly because the Fitrah in them starts to surface and they cannot lie to themselves anymore. This is called exercising faith Really I am confused. Help me out here. No this is exercising Fate. Administered Fate is in our own hands. Faith means you know Allah is out there giving each and everyone an opportunity regardless of race or religion. It is how we make use of these opportunities that is called Fate. This is the reward for exercising your faith.  Allah knows our destiny(fate) long before we do, but Allah still needs to test us. I give you an example. For those who are parents. We see our children grow and develop. You give them rules to follow. SOmetimes they obey, sometimes they don't. But the majority of parents will STILL allow the child to err...as a growing lesson. Lets face it...I am sure we know our kids well enough to know how they will react to a certain situation. Bingo! Allah is the same. Am I making sense here? Or am I way off line somewhere The Love of Allah is similar to the love of a mother. But of course not as great as Allah�s Love. We as parents, had given our best ,physically, spiritually, mentally to our children to follow. Yet they err. As a mother myself, everyday after solah, I will pray to Allah to forgive my children for any error that they made, because we are human beings after all. Because I love my children very much, I do not want anything to befall them. I forgive them for whatever sins that they had done towards me, and I want Allah too to forgive them. This is Faith. Because we know that Allah is Ar-Rahman - Most Gracious, Ar-Raheem, Most Merciful, Al-Ghafur - Most Forgiving, At-Tawwab - Accepter of Repentance. This kind of faith may change our fate. ------------- Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention. |