Question about the Prophet
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Topic: Question about the Prophet
Posted By: Pati
Subject: Question about the Prophet
Date Posted: 11 August 2009 at 3:24pm
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Hi everyone,
I have a question about P. Muhammad (PBUH).
Is it certified any miracle he did? I mean, in the same way that Jesus did with Lazaro (a disabled person to whom Jesus asked to "stand up and walk", and did), or the multiplication of bread & fishs, or the walk over the sea...
Is it certified any miracle from the Prophet?
Thanks in advance for any answer you may give me.
Patricia ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Replies:
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 12 August 2009 at 7:33pm
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From amongst them was the Qur'an, the manifest and clear miracle and brilliant proof, falsehood cannot approach it from before it or behind it. It is a revelation from One Who is All-Wise and Praiseworthy. It incapacitated the most eloquent of people in the most eloquent of times to produce a single chapter that would be comparable to it, even if the whole of creation were to gather for that purpose. Allah, the Exalted says, "Say: If the whole of mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they assisted each other." [Al-Israa' (17): 88] It challenged them to this despite their large numbers, their eloquence and their severe enmity, and it challenges them to this day. As for the other miracles, it is not possible to enumerate them all due to their huge number and renewing and increasing nature. However, I will mention some examples: http://www.pbuh.us/prophetMuhammad.php?f=Cr_Miracle - http://www.pbuh.us/prophetMuhammad.php?f=Cr_Miracle
http://www.sunnah.org/history/miracles_of_Prophet.htm - http://www.islamanswers.net/miracles/otherMiracles.htm - |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 12 August 2009 at 9:51pm
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Pati wrote:Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 12 August 2009 at 10:34pm
Sorry, but as Catholics, we believe tha Jesus was doing the miracles himself, as God's Son.
I know you don't accept that Jesus was God's Son, but that's something inherent to our religion.
Actually, Jesus was doing part of his miracles on Sabbath, and that caused a small revolution between the "pure" Jews. In the Bible, it's said:
JN 5, 16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this every day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
Regards,
Patricia ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 13 August 2009 at 5:02am
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Posted By: Meditations
Date Posted: 13 August 2009 at 10:00pm
Dear Abdullah Can you point me to where you get this info from ? I always thought Jesus ( AS ) did perform this physically ( in a way similar to what Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH ) or Prophet Moses did , not by praying ( dua'a ) [Yusufali 3:49] "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe; AsSalam Alaykoum |
Posted By: Meditations
Date Posted: 13 August 2009 at 10:34pm
Dear Patricia As brother abuayisha pointed out , Apart from the Quran , Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH ) had numerous physical miracles ( I think there's at least over 1000 witnessed incidents of food/water multiplication , hearing ...etc. ) But you don't need to just read about events that happened hundreds of years ago , there're so many examples of miracles related to Prophet Muahmmad ( PBUH ) that you can witness today Miracles about Prophet Muhammad still occur until today through Quran , and words he spoke of For example : Quran says : 094.004 : And exalted thy fame Today, 1430 years later The name Muhammad is the most popular first name on earth The name Muhammad is said out loud 5 times a day in every mosque in the world in Azan , and in every muslim's prayer With time differences , and the semi-spherical nature of our earth , this means that there's no second that passes without his name ( PBUH ) being said thousands if not millions of times Quran says : 15:9 : We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). Today , Quran is the most read book in the world , no other book is being memorized the same way muslim memorize Quran ( not only on the chapter , word and letter level , but on the level of vocal performance of each letter ) it's the only book that I know of that survived change or versioning over the years There're so many other examples , but I guess now you get our point ? |
Posted By: salahuddeen2009
Date Posted: 14 September 2009 at 1:20pm
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salam to all
These are evidences from the new testament that Jesus had no power of his own,he acquired it all from the OneGod who sent him,TO PROVE THAT HE'S HIS MESSENGER,NOT A LIAR,that's why he prayed before resurrecting Lazarus,by Allah's Will&power
http://www.biblestudytools.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=joh+5:30&version=niv&st=1&sd=1&new=1&showtools=1 - Joh 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
NOW FOR THE MOST CLEAR ONE,SISTER PATI: ACTS 2 :22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know
Allah says in the holy Quran,sura3,verses 45-52:
46. "He will speak to the people in the cradle http://www.qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?L=arb&Page=56#f1 - [1] and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous." - - 47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for All�h creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" - and it is. - - 48. And He (All�h) will teach him [(��s� (Jesus)] the Book and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom), (and) the Taur�t (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel). - - 49. And will make him [(��s� (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, a figure like that of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by All�h�s Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by All�h�s Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. - - 50. And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taur�t (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear All�h and obey me. - - 51. Truly! All�h is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path. - - 52. Then when ��s� (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in All�h�s Cause?" Al-Haw�riyy�n (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of All�h; we believe in All�h, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to All�h)." |
Posted By: Akhe Abdullah
Date Posted: 15 September 2009 at 12:47pm
Wa Alaikum As Salaam,Salahuddeen.JazakAllah Kheiran for the clarifacations.  May Allah reward you for your efforts.
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Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 15 September 2009 at 1:10pm
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Hi Salahuddeen2009,
Thank you very much for your long and documented post.
If you allow me, I will start with a quote from the Bible, including something you quoted too (From John, Chapter #5):
There is no mistake in what I said, there is only a disagreement because, again, for US as Christians Jesus was God, and for you as Muslims Jesus was only a Prophet.
When the Bible says "God's Son", we mean, Jesus was sent to the Earth by God in the way of his Son, part of him (and I don't mean Father in phisical way, we don't mean that God "engendered" Jesus, just that God sent Jesus in the way of His Son). In the name of the Father (God), de Son (Jesus) and the Holly Spirit (Faith), that's how we start our prays as Catholics.
Just note what the verse #20 says: The Father (God) shows the Son (Jesus) everything He Himself does (miracles). The same way that any father in this world will teach his son everything he knows.
So, for us, Jesus was doing the miracles following the teachings of his Father (God), and at the same time, as part of Him.
Regards
------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Posted By: salahuddeen2009
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 12:25pm
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salam sisterPati
You picked only one phrase& made your comment about it,but you left the other phrases,in summary you didnt answer the following questions:
1)could jesus do any miracle by his own POWER?yes or no?(according to the past phrases from the Bible the answer is a BIG "NOOOOOOOOO"
2)why did jesus pray many times to God?is jesus a Deficient God who needs the help of His God?or in a better way,is he not a God at all?
(LOGIC THINKING SAYS THAT GOD SHOULD BE "SELF-SUFFICIENT",not needing to pray,kneel nor put his face in the ground for his "own god"!!)!!
 3)you said that( I don't mean Father in phisical way, we don't mean that God "engendered" Jesus, just that God sent Jesus in the way of His Son)your statement here means that jesus isn't Physical son of God,so can you explain to me these 2 phrases in the bible,to clarify the concept of FATHERHOOD that you believe in:
My questions here are 2 also: Firstly:what's the difference between the fatherhood of God to Jesus & the fatherhood of God to the audience(ordinary people) in the past two phrases(according to islamic scholars we believe that the word father in the Bible is a mistranslation of the word Guardian,in Aramic,that's all,because Allah,God,stated in the Holy Qur'an that He's father of No One,Fatherhood doesn't fit with His Majesty),
All what you need you to do is just to remove the word father from the past two phrases& put the word Guardian,then the confusion will be OVER,just as simple as that,you can do the same by replacing the word Son of God,by the word Slave of God then go & RE-read the new testament with these 2 CORRECTIONs
Secondly:Who's the God Of Jesus ,according to his speach in John 20:17?can God be the God of a part of himself(is this what you believe,sister)????!!
 I'll suumarize your belief to you,I want you just to read it loudly,to yourself,then ask yourself (IS THis The TRUTH?! Is This what you feel comfort with?)
This's what you believe,as a catholic Christian,:
GOD HAD SENT GOD (BOTH OF THEM ARE ONE) TO BE KILLED ON THE CROSS AFTER GOD PRAYED TO GOD TO RELIEVE GOD'S PASSIONS ,BUT GOD WANTED ALL THIS SUFFERINGS TO HAPPEN TO GOD IN ORDER THAT GOD WOULD FORGIVE HUMANS FOR A SIN THAT GOD KNOWS FOR SURE THAT THEY HAD NO HAND IN IT,BUT IT MADE GOD GET ANGRY WITH ALL OF THEM!!
IN SUMMARY: GOD HAD SENT GOD TO MAKE GOD SUFFER TILL GOD'S DEATH ON THE CROSS ,TO MAKE GOD HAPPY !! ISN'T THIS WHAT YOU BELIEVE?SISTER?
OH MY GOD!!!  THE BELIEF OF SOMEONE SHOULD BE AT LEAST ""LOGIC""!!Sister,
we are now in the last days of the holy month of Ramadan,we as muslims obeyed God's orders by withstanding the sufferings of fasting the 30 days of Ramadan,to show Him our loyalty,BUT YOU DID NOT,you were just eating & drinking,& DENYING ALL THESE OBLIGATIONS,sister
we spent the Nights doing salat & reciting the Holy Quran(the last Testament of God to the Humans,BUT YOU DID NOT,you were just sleeping & DENYING all this ,sister
we pray 5 times daily(Salat) in the way That Allah(God of Adam,Abraham,Moses,David,Jesus&Mohammad)had ordered us to do,,,BUT YOU DID NOT,you were just enjoying your life & DENYING ALL THESE OBLIGATORY SALATS,sister
then after all this,you say:I'm in peace with GOD!!??
IS THIS LOGIC<SISTER>???
GOD SAYS IN THE HOLY QUR'AN,SURA 5:116-120:
116. And (remember) when All�h will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O ��s� (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: �Worship me and my mother as two gods besides All�h?� " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).
- 117. "Never did I say to them aught except what You (All�h) did command me to say: �Worship All�h, my Lord and your Lord.� And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world). - 118. "If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You, are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise http://www.qurancomplex.org/Quran/Targama/Targama.asp?L=arb&Page=127#f1 - [1] ." - 119. All�h will say: "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein forever. All�h is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success (Paradise). - 120. To All�h belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and all that is therein, and He is Able to do all things. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 12:26pm
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Hi Pati,
as you have known by now that Islamic understanding is that the miracles were done through God's prophets only with God's help and permission. No one else can give life except God, if any prophets were able to do so, we must remember that they did it through their Creator alone. They themselves could not delay or extend their own lives by a minute without the will and work of God.
Miracles were to show to the people that the prophets were from God. We see in the Scriptures that God did show many miracles through many prophets, but those who were to reject God and His messengers still made fun of them and called them magicians and did not believe them. Jesus' example is clear, you think if those who disbelieved were shown a miracle they will believe? That did not happen with him neither, those who were bound to hell did not believe in him to be from God, they pursued him till they were about to kill him, and according to Islamic teaching, God saved his sevent from humiliation, honored him by raising him up to Himself, yet another, even this miracle for the disbelievers was not enough.
So, If you are asking, if prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did miracles like Jesus (pbuh) is said to have done. My simple answer will be no (and any one, please correct me if I am wrong) same way what miracles Moses may have done would probably be different than those done by David (pbuh).
I agree with those who say, the Quran is a miracle God did through prophet Mohammed (pbuh), something we can say Jesus did not have! as prophet Mohammed was an illiterate man, while Jesus, according to the Bible was well versed in Jewish Law and scripture.
Like I said, it is the purpose for which God sent messengers most important and of interest than what miracles they brought with them or were given.
I see your statement "for US as Christians Jesus was God" and "Jesus was sent to the Earth by God in the way of his Son" as contradictory.
This contradiction is further reinforced by this statement of yours: "The Father (God) shows the Son (Jesus) everything He Himself does (miracles). The same way that any father in this world will teach his son everything he knows."
Since, we all agree that God is All Knowing, All Aware, does God need learning about things, the Creator of All, need to be taught? like I teach my daughters everything I know (I only have daughters, Alhumdolillah), It seems odd and it is wrong to think. God is not taught, nor He needs to know, He is self sufficiant, All Knowledgeable.
I must say, your undestanding of Who God really is, needs some attention sister.
Also, I don't think you will disagree with me that God who is One, does not have two wills, the All Knower Must have One Will. This quote from the Bible makes a point, and I hope you are able to see it:
" http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+22:42&version=NIV - Luke 22:42
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." You say, "he (Jesus) is God for us, and Muslim take him as a prophet" I believe I have quoted this before, but here it is again: "...But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."
And this quote is from NT Matthew 13:57
Al least two visible points here: First, Jesus is declaring his prophethood. Second he is acknowledging being dishonored.
Have we grown in our understanding yet that there is none who can reach God in order to dishonor Him.
May God Almighty guide those who seek His guidance, in truth for their own good, Ameen.
Hasan
------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 16 September 2009 at 2:15pm
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Salams Hasan, For us, Jesus during His stay on Earth was God's Son (Special Creation), but after His Death, He became part of God, coming back to His origins. I don't find any contradiction there. We don't say Jesus was God, even pretending to be during the time He was on Earth. That's not truth. But the truth which came from His miracles was the Holly presence He was always representing. Maybe my way to explain it was not the right one, but I hope this time the words are fitting what I want to say. Regarding the staying of Jesus on Earth, well, for us as Catholics, He came to save the Humanity from any sin. Through Him, God gave us a chance to believe on Him, to stop fighting and follow His Holly Word... Just an example: Jesus did never fight (just in the Synagogue, when it was full of usurers). The people who believed His words, followed him without asking for anything. For us, they (Jews and Romans) killed Him because they were afraid from the Word of God, from His Message. They were afraid from someone who was making miracles, convincing people just talking to them, making only good things for everyone, not insulting, not fighting... in that time, it was not good to be this way, and that's why Jesus became the objective to kill. Jesus was expressing a Message of peace, understanding between different people, against wars and kills, and every bad feeling a human being may have. If you want to control a population, they should have every kind of bad feelings to other people, you have to start looking for someone to blame for everything... and suddenly, Jesus appeared: with knowledge of God's Word, from childhood, impeccable behaviour, accepting everyone who was coming to Him (for instance, Maria Madgalena, a prostitute who became one of his most faithful followers)... Jews and Romans were afraid from the goodness, and from losing control on their land. Just that. But we are not used to learn from mistakes. And I am sure that if God would give us another chance, the humanity would answer the same. Regards. Patricia ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 17 September 2009 at 3:30pm
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Hola Pati,
let me ask you a question: In Catholicism who is refered to as " Madre de Dios" ??
Take care,
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: salahuddeen2009
Date Posted: 17 September 2009 at 5:42pm
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salam Patti
you said(For us, Jesus during His stay on Earth was God's Son (Special Creation), but after His Death, He became part of God, coming back to His origins. I don't find any contradiction there.)
Do doyou mean that God was Incomplete!!till jesus Died!!?
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Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 18 September 2009 at 4:07pm
Hola Hasan, Yes, it is. Maria, Madre de Dios. And we refer to the Church as the "Santa Madre Iglesia" too (Saint Mother Church). Because for us, Maria was the mother of God, the mother of Jesus who was part of God and God as the same time (not engendered by God, just created).
Do you mean God has a shape? Do you mean God is finite? Do you mean God is something material? I don't think so, sorry. God is complete, never uncomplete. God is perfection, never makes any mistake. God is good, nothing bad comes from Him. Salams, ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 18 September 2009 at 8:10pm
A miracle is defined as an extraordinary event happening only on the hands of a prophet, by the command of Allah swt. It is also characterized as an event that cannot be challenged or paralleled as it is not a usual event that takes place in everyday life. The invention of an airplane, for example, cannot be considered a miracle since a miracle happens only to those who have received the revelation from Allah. Imam ash-Shafi^iyy said:" For every miracle Allah gave to the other Prophets, He gave Prophet Muhammad a similar or a greater miracle". When the people of Prophet Salih asked him for a miracle, Allah supported Prophet Salih (peace be upon him) by bringing forth a camel and its calf from a solid rock. Upon seeing that, some people embraced Islam and others yet still did not. Likewise, Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) son of Lady Mariam was supported with Miracles when he called the people to the religion of Islam and to believe in the oneness of Allah. The people at the time of Prophet Jesus were renowned for their high level of skill in Medicine. The people could not match what he did by the will of Allah as He supported him with miracles such as reviving the dead and curing blindness and leprosy. These two diseases in particular were usually considered untreatable by the people of his time who were skillful in medicine. None of them were able to do what Prophet Jesus did, no one was able to revive the dead or cure the blind or cure leprosy by placing their hand on the person or wiping over his eyes. These are extraordinary events occurring only for Prophets by the will of Allah. If all the non-believers were to unite their efforts in an attempt to match a prophet�s miracle they would only be met with failure. As for Muhammad (peace be upon him), Allah the Exalted supported him with many miracles. The people of Prophet Muhammad were famous for their Arabic language eloquence. The greatest miracle given to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Holy Qur�an, the Book which is always preserved from perversion. It is a miracle that stood the test of time lasting for centuries and remains unchallenged until the Day of Resurrection. Despite of the Arabs proficiency in the Arabic language they were unable to come up with an Ayah which is similar to a single Ayah in the Holy Qur`an. Amongst Prophet Muhammad�s miracles (peace be upon him), one which happened on the day of the trench. As the companions (may Allah have mercy on them) were digging they came across a large rock that they could not dig out, so they informed their leader Muhammad (peace be upon him) who took the pickaxe, said �Bismillah� three times and then hit the rock once only to see it disintegrate to the ground in the form of running sand. On several occasions, he fed a large number of people on the diet of one person, quenched the thirst of thousands of companions with one small potful of water. He talked to the animals, trees and Jennies, foretold a large number of events, travelled to Jerusalem and heavens within a few moments time, divided and reunited the moon by pointing a finger and performed a lot of other miracles. Even when he was a child, a Christian saint recognized him as a future Prophet. The saint witnessed the trees bowing before him and a patch of cloud moving over his head as he walked. Many such miracles happened but not a single miracle was given by Allah swt when the disbelievers demanded. Following are few of the answers in reply to the disbelievers demand that "Why is not a sign sent down to Him from His Lord? Have they not been given sufficient proofs (of your Prophet hood) in the previous Books (20:133) Your mission is (not showing them the miracles) but only to give warning (of the Hereafter) (13:7) Say, Allah is well able to send down a sign but most of them do not know (what that sign would be).(6:37) Why is not Quran referring to the miracles, the Prophet(Pbuh) often performed inn reply to the demand? Because, the Last Prophet(Pbuh) was not to be a guide for a certain period and certain people. The later men of the scientific age would believe in a living proof only. They would call fairy tales, the stories of the Prophet(Pbuh) conversing with trees and animals, if recorded in Quran. Besides, those who did not want to believe, always scoffed at the earlier Prophets(pbuh) when confronted with the signs, calling if sorcery, magic or trickstery. The Quran says: If thou camest unto them with a miracle, those who disbelieve would verliy exclaim: Ye are but tricksters. (30:58) And if they behold a portent they turn away and say: Prolonged illusion! (54:2) That is why the Almighty gave him a living sign, a final argument for the men of all ages to come. The sign is the safe and Final Word of God, The Quran. Is it not a miracle that despite the descriptions of a large number of verses describing universe and its phenomon, not a single verse, sent down 1400 years ago can be contradicted by modern science? Is it not a miracle that the stages of creation of man, detailed by Quran cannot be challenged by medical science after 1400 years? Is it not a miracle that a civilisation, not mentioned in any earlier scripture or historical record, was excavated in the desert of Oman after 5000 years in 1992 and the Quran had described its details at more than a dozen places! The Quran had claimed 1400 years ago that its authenticity will increase with the passage of the universe. But it is plain miracles (hidden for the time) inside the hearts of those endowed with (scientific) knowledge. Only the wrong doers deny our signs. And (yet) they say, why are not portents sent down upon him from his Lord? say: Portents are with Allah (to be made manifest in time) and my mission is only to give plain warning. (29:49,50) We shall show them our portents on the horizons and within themselves until it will be manifest unto them that it (The Quran) is the Truth (14:53) - Source {islamic voice, darul Ifta} And yes when the miracle of splitting of moon was shown {not on there demand], they just called it magic.Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) did perform miracles, however in the eyes of the disbelievers this was nothing more than magic and they still kept on demanding signs. Just because they did not receive the specific signs that they asked for that does not mean that no signs were showed to them at all. And yes Pati, even while their demands of signs were fulfilled by Allah's permission, these disbelievers, did not accept them as Prophet. Musa AS, Isa , Salih AS, likewise all the Prophets who showed miracles by the permission of Allah swt, had very few followers. If people had to believe they believe, they don't need miracles. ------------- Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent." |
Posted By: salahuddeen2009
Date Posted: 18 September 2009 at 8:26pm
Mt 27:46
Was jesus not sure About God's perfect Decisions(this means that you,Patti are more trusting God than Jesus himself!!,that's why you never cry to God like jesus did,asking him why did you do so & so to me,right?)? or did jesus object against His Job on earth &was asking to RESIGN? |
Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 19 September 2009 at 1:14am
Jesus was sent in the way of a person, with our fears and doubts sometimes. He was afraid from dying minutes before He left the Earth... but at the end, god showed Him the light to take Him back to the Heaven. At the same time, it's philosophy and a lesson to learn: Jesus in the Cross had a doubt of God, thinking that God had forgot him... but at the end, God didn't do and took Him to the Heaven. How many millions of people did have that doubt of God's existence? But at the end, God is always there. That's our understanding, at least. Salams, Patricia ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 19 September 2009 at 4:35pm
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Pati,
what you are saying when you say"Jesus was sent in the way of a person, with our fears and doubts sometimes. He was afraid from dying minutes before He left the Earth... but at the end, god showed Him the light to take Him back to the Heaven." that Jesus was a man, what he was before his birth and after his resurrection is really not for us to decide. But I am glad that you finally do say that "he was sent in the way of a man" you are just hesitant to say clearly that he was a man when he was Jesus, the man we know to have walked on the earth, who had fears like anyone of us, who ate, who was born and weaned like any one of us. Was given prophethood like many prophets before, was given miracles and word of God.
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 19 September 2009 at 4:49pm
Thank you Patti,
your answer really is interesting and true from Catholic understanding, according to which, Mary (as) (the mother of Jesus pbuh) is said to be the "mother of God."
But my concerns are reality and truth based. Your reply raises several questions, I will pose two:
1) In God, the Son, the Holy spirit (Trinity) where does the mother fit, and the Mother of God is not God, but son of God is, Why? can you answer that question for me?
Is the mother less than the son even though she is referred and regarded as Mother of God (Madre de Dios)?
2) If Mary is the mother of God, (remember it does not say mother of the son of God, rather "mother of God" that makes Mary Jesus' grandmother?
I am just being reasonable with what the claims are according to the Catholic church which you follow.
------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Pati
Date Posted: 20 September 2009 at 5:13am
Hi Hasan, First of all, I wish you a happy Eid Mubarak to you and all your family. I hope it's going to be a very special day to you all  I will try to answer your questions: 1) In God, the Son, the Holy spirit (Trinity) where does the mother fit, and the Mother of God is not God, but son of God is, Why? can you answer that question for me?
Is the mother less than the son even though she is referred and regarded as Mother of God (Madre de Dios)?
Well, for us, Maria the Virgin is the ideal believer, the most holly person... and I repeat PERSON ever in the Earth. It's said that the Evil was afraid from her, because of her believes and strength to defend it. And at the same time, she was the chosen to be the physical mother, the person who gave him love, education, formation, etc. She was so perfect that God chose her to send her his Son. Some people say that Maria is the Third part of the Trinity, and in one way she may be, because this Third is the believe in God, and she was the perfect believer, with impeccable behaviour during her life. She was not part of God, but human, and she was the chosen to have in her womb the Son of God during 9 months, time while she felt the touch of God. She gave the life to the Son of God, as well as her love and principles. 2) If Mary is the mother of God, (remember it does not say mother of the son of God, rather "mother of God" that makes Mary Jesus' grandmother?
I am just being reasonable with what the claims are according to the Catholic church which you follow.
I think you are just mixing things: She was mother of Jesus and as Jesus was part of God, she was mother of God and developing that role. But she was not the mother of God itself, because was not engendered, as you also defend. She was not grandmother of Jesus, only His mother, and a normal person whose believes made her special between the whole humanity. At the same time, we see her as the Mother of the believers, but not a physical mother, but an spiritual one, because of her perfection at every level. Kind regards Patricia ------------- No God wants the killing, but the peace. The weapons are carried by people, not by religions. |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 20 September 2009 at 10:58am
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Everyone, Please understand that we are supposed to discuss the topic from Islamic standpoint in this section. However, if you want to discuss the topic from various perspectives, including Islam and Christianity, the topic should be moved to the Interfaith section. Or a separate thread should be created in the interfaith section. Peace
------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 20 September 2009 at 3:31pm
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Eid Greetings to All.
Pati, I will have to move this topic " Madre de Dios" to interfaith section as brother peacemaker is right. We have drifted away from the topic.
May Allah guide us All to the Right, Ameen.
Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: kukuruza
Date Posted: 12 October 2009 at 11:20am
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I consider that as those prophets are not present. People wrote...
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