Mutliple Wives
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Topic: Mutliple Wives
Posted By: jibreel
Subject: Mutliple Wives
Date Posted: 22 July 2005 at 6:01pm
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Assalamo Alaikum,
I have read many threads on the internet in regards to polygamy and polyandry. I realize that allot of sisters think this is unfair because the first thing they realize is that it gives brothers (some) ideas that they can find more wives if they can afford it, but... I always thought that instead of a divorce, why not the brother just get married to a second wife, and then finally settle only until when a new brother comes along for the 1st wife that could afford to marry her. Is this the islamic way to really see multiple marriages? In what way should a Brother have to treat his wives when having married to more then one? by supporting them financially, loving them or both? |
Replies:
Posted By: aisha
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 7:02am
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as a sister,i do support the ploygamy issues,but in the right circumstances,i think in polygramy is good it does make sure women get loved and looked after,if they have no-one else,in fact polygramy is more benificial to women then men.the men with more than one wife has to make sure that all hes wives get treated the same and all the children,and in some cases the wives familys.the wives get themselves a nanny,and a good helping hand around the house,and possibly a friend to talk to,allah(swt)knew he was helping women when he gave this revelation to our prophet(swa),some men thought it was for there own benefit(he,he). ------------- aisha |
Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 7:55am
Assalamo Alaikum, This is why i posted this to clarify the issues around the net i found. Divorce is to be avoided as mush as possible, which brings us to the point of what does a brother have to do other then his responsibility of continuing his duty to provide for the first wife, even if he seeks marriage with the second. But the question i have is what is to be treated equally, the providing or the romace? Its obvious the romace died or if the brother wanted a variety of sisters it then against the islamic shcool of thought., i mean unless he was adopting 3 more wives who are widows or orphans and or victems of war. |
aisha wrote:Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 2:47pm
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Are you saying the second wife becomes a nanny, and a good helping hand around the house, and etc.? |
If so, nothing could be further from the truth - generally speaking.Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 10:16am
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" what do we do with the QURAN verse that says to leave one wife before
taking on another? Im pretty sure that polygamy is only allowed in very
special cases, and only to support a widdow and her child. Peace Noah |
Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 10:41am
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Islamicity Multiple Wives Counting Center highly recommends you to reading that book: http://www.al-islamforall.org/litre/englitre/Polygainis.htm - http://www.al-islamforall.org/litre/englitre/Polygainis.htm brother Suleyman-Islamicity Multiple Wives Counting Center(IMWCC):helps you to not passing over 4 to brothers 1 to sisters since 2001.... |
Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 10:55am
| Sorry since 2003 i am not as old as Angel... |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 3:08pm
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Kindly site that verse for us, as I have not come across a verse in my studies of the Quran, requiring a man to "leave one wife before taking on another". |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 4:30pm
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Transliteration
Wa-in aradtumu istibdala zawjin makana
zawjin waataytum ihdahunna qintaran
fala ta/khuthoo minhu shay-an ata/khuthoonahu
buhtanan wa-ithman mubeenan Y.Ali But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure for dower, Take not the least bit of it back: Would ye take it by slander and manifest wrong? R.Khalifa If you wish to marry another wife, in place of your present wife, and you had given any of them a great deal, you shall not take back anything you had given her. Would you take it fraudulently, maliciously, and sinfully? Pickthal And if ye wish to exchange one wife for another and ye have given unto one of them a sum of money (however great), take nothing from it. Would ye take it by the way of calumny and open wrong? Shakir And if you wish to have (one) wife in place of another and you have given one of them a heap of gold, then take not from it anything; would you take it by slandering (her) and (doing her) manifest wrong? Literal And if you wanted exchanging (to exchange) a spouse (in) place (of a) spouse, and you (P) gave one of them (F) a ton , so do not take from it a thing, do you take it wrongfully/slanderfully, and an evident sin/crime? Peace Noah |
Posted By: Arabian
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 9:37pm
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Noah, Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this in the case of a divorce? You're leaving one woman and taking another woman for whatever reason; maybe you realized that you could not love both equally? Really the only thing being said here is if you which to exchange one wife for another then do not take of the gifted dower. We are not told exactly why you would be exchanging that wife. With Peace, Muhammad ------------- �...the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?� (The Quran, 21:30) |
Posted By: aisha
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 3:47am
salaam,yeah that seems like divorce procedure,i think thats different to a man wanting more wives,i think a man who does have more wives should definatly treat them the same in love and wealth,if he is taking a second wife because he doesnt love the first wife,then maybe he should divorce the first wife,before he marries the second,i think for a man to take more wives there should be a reason other than just having to wives(twice the fun) if you know what i mean .------------- aisha |
Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 5:38am
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Polygamy is not a horrible institution as long as all parties are willing participants. As a Mormon, we too are faced with this issue often. We believe polygamy to be morally okay, if practiced right. However, we are prohibited to practice it due to events in the late 19th century here in Utah. Some excommunicated sects of the church still practice this, but they practice a perverted version forcing child brides and marriages to men much older. We also have a problem with them casting out their teenage sons so there is no competition for the women. This is where Polygamy becomes wrong, when men forget why there is a need for it and they use it for their own sick purposes. If practiced right, the first wife should be okay with the husband taking a second wife. The second wife would understand she is equal to the first wife by law and the husband should treat them as such. Neither wife should be subservient to the other. And neither should be made to feel less. My husband and I have joked often about the issue, since I haven't always been a member and non mormons love to make jokes about the practice of Polygamy. I cannot have children. After all our trials, adoption will be the only answer. But an adoption can cost between 10-40,000 USD. In a Polygamist society, this would not be an issue. He could marry a second wife and have his children through her. Unfortunately, that will not be the case. Of course, with multiple wives, you always worry about the Sarah/Hagar fight when one is blessed and the other is not. I mean, that's what led all of us to be divided nations instead of one brotherhood. One last comment, in 2002 or 2003, I read an article in Newsweek about a man who was from Africa. He was a Muslim and had received refugee status with the US for him and his family. There was a catch, though all were given status, he had two wives. He was told, before they could get to the US, he had to divorce one of his two wives. His first wife had given him 3 sons, all still very young. His second wife, whom he had only married within the last year, was pregnant with their first child. Which wife was he to choose? He went with his first wife only because she had 3 children and she was his greater responsibility. He loved his second wife and did not want to have to do it, but he must. So, this poor woman had to come to a foreign country with no one to care for her and her unborn child. I found this article heartbreaking and it brought up many issues concerning legal polygamy in other countries and the illegality of it here in the United States. (Strange that Gay Marriage gets so much support, but a loving family must be broke up for the "moral" betterment of the nation.) Angela |
Posted By: aisha
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 10:33am
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unfortunatly there are sad occasions like this that happen,i think what you said is right angela,polygramy is good if used right.its a shame your husband cannot use ploygram,i feel for you both.inshallah i hope things turn for the best. ------------- aisha |
Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 12:25pm
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Peace all
There is no evidence that a brother has to even tell the first wife if he has taken a 2nd bride. This also should be islamic reasons, like Piety and support for each other, and not because she is a hot babe. This is as far as i understand it . The Qur'an is the only book on the planet that states how many wives you can have, 4., and no other book and i mean the Bible has ever stated this, Solomon (PBUH) had hundreds of wives., its also known that Kings used to have hundreds if the least 20 mistresses or more. |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 1:22pm
Peace brother "Marry off those who are single among you and those of your male and female servants who are righteous. If they are poor, God will enrich them of his grace, for God is bounteous and all-knowing." Pay close attention to the fact that it says male and female, so this verse is for everybody, as men cannot marry men. So the rule is, marry those unmarried. If a man has a wife, he is not unmarried. so youre right this verse If you wish to marry another wife, in place of your present wife, and you had given any of them a great deal, you shall not take back anything you had given her. Would you take it fraudulently, maliciously, and sinfully? is about divorce. From the wife youre with, before you take on another wife, as outlined in the first verse. It does not say wifes, or one of your wifes. The verse strongly on its own suggest that there is only one wife to deal with at all. Im willing to debate that polygamy is ONLY allowed if there is orphans involved and it is to protect them and their mothers, and for no other purpose at all. "You shall hand over to the ORPHANS* their rightful properties. Do not substitute the bad for the good, and do not consume their properties by combining them with yours. This would be a gross injustice. If you fear that you will not be equitable towards the ORPHANS, then you may marry their mothers. You may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship." (4/2-3) "They consult you concerning women:
say, "GOD enlightens you regarding them, as recited for
you in the scripture. The mothers of ORPHANS* that you wish
to marry but do not give them their due dowries, you shall
be just. The rights of young boys must also be protected.
You shall treat the orphans equitably. Whatever good you do,
GOD is fully aware thereof." (4/127) "Do not give those who are immature the money which God has ENTRUSTED you with. You shall provide for them from it and cloth them, and say to them what is just. You shall test the orphans when they reach puberty. As soon as you find them mature enough, GIVE THEM THEIR PROPERTY..." (4/5-6) You must be the GUARDIAN to these Orphans
and caretaker to their inheritance BEFORE even considering
Polygamy. It is not just for a man to just pick children off
the street and claim that he will marry their mother. The
man must be the Guardian to the children appointed by their
deceased father or because they (the Orphans) are from his
blood i.e 1. Orphans placed in our guardianship are to be treated fairly. 2. If we fear biased-ness or unfairness in treatment, we MAY marry their mother. 3. We MUST pay their mother her dowry as in the case of a normal marriage. 4. We MUST NOT be biased in our dealings with either wife. So to me it is clear as daylight, that this is just another sign of love from our Rabb, alhamdulilah. It is to protect the weakest in any society, the orphans. Nothing else, because we cannot be equally fair to 2 wifes, as much as we would love to. Not even when we marry to protect the children. Peace Noah |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 25 July 2005 at 3:17pm
Peace sis I hear you, i just always figured it would be twice the amount of work, for the same pleasure hehe Peace Noah |
Posted By: aisha
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 4:19am
he,he,thats right,its the women that gain in the end,just as it should be. ------------- aisha |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 6:20am
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Polygamy existed prior to Islam, and as Islam was the final message to mankind, it sought to regulate pural marriage. When Ghailan al-Thaqafi accepted Islam, he had ten wives. "Choose four of them and divorce the rest,'' the Prophet (peace be on him) told him (Reported by al-Shafi'i, Ahmad, al-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Ibn Abi Shaybah, al-Darqutni, and Bayhaqi.). Similarly, some men who had eight (Reported by Abu Daoud in his Musnad.) or five wives at the time of embracing Islam were told by the Prophet (peace be on him) to retain only four (Reported by Ahmad, al-Darimi, Ibn Hibban, al-Hakim, and the compilers of Sunan (Abu Daoud, al-Nisai, and Ibn Majah).)
The Prophet (pbuh) did not ask 'which are orphans' and divorce the rest, they were able to choose. Many times scholars and others give reasons why polygamy is allowed, but these reasons are not legally binding on an individual to take a second, third or fourth wife. |
Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 6:38am
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Bismillah Indeed, poligamy existed long before Islam. Islam however, limited the number of wives to four. The key point is that the number was reduced... very contrary to people's perception today. Although Christians today question rationale behind polygamy, they fail to notice that there is no indication in the Bible that marriage should be strictly limited to one wife only. Having four wives however is not similar to having four girlfriends. And all the necessary conditions should be met. ------------- MOCKBA |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 26 July 2005 at 11:30am
Let me get this streight. Our mercyful messenger asked the men to toss out havlf their wifes? to what? I dont buy it for a minute. Im well aware that polygamy was practiced widely, and still is all over the world today in various ways and societys, but that is hardly a carte blanche to polygamy on its own, that the number got limited. Because look at the QURAN verses, isnt it clear that not only where they limited, they altso got a clausul on them? People practiced human sacrifice before the arrival of Quran. so...is that ok to if i only sacrifice a little? Im sorry but i trust God more than al-Shafi'i Peace Noah |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 6:35pm
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Bro Noah, You are right there is a very strong caution for marrying more than one, but again, remember Islam is not just for one place and for a one moment of history. Think of its general applicability in all spatial as well as temporal dimensions. Hopefully, you shall find your answer this way. Indeed Allah knows the best. |
Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 8:37pm
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I think men who need to marry more than one woman to satisfy thier lust
are really weak. And if you marry a good woman and later marry a second
to have sex with someone new you will be held accountable for wronging
your first wife. I know 3 brothers from Lybia who's father married a
second wife when they were teenagers because he wanted to have another
virgin and he eventually stopped coming around and left them. Those
boys now men hate thier father and want nothing to do with him. Why are
so many men so ignorant on this issue. If you want to marry a sister
just for fun, while it lasts you better tell her, otherwise you are a
Liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you have stolen her chastisty for your temporary lust. The prophet
peace be upon him took care of all of his wives and did not leave one
for another. And how many of you can love and care for more than one
woman, your children, providing them seperate houses and all of thier
needs including healthcare ect. I mean come on brothers how clueless
are you.YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR MISTREATING YOUR WIVES!!!
------------- You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly. |
Posted By: Noah
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 8:45pm
Peace bro I fully agree with this. The Quran limited a behaviour that was back then, in no uncertain terms. And further more noted that from that point on, if people was to marry more than one, it should be for the protection of orphans and their mothers, as shown in my last post. sister Jenni calm down now. anger produces toxins in your body that are unhealthy, no need to make yourself ill over it ;) Peace noah |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 9:02pm
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Good admonition Jenni, and men should indeed think deeply about their wife and children prior to entering another marriage, however, certainly we don�t want men having affairs, thus committing a major sin, which if discovered by his wife, would likely hurt even worse. |
Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 9:10pm
Sisters can also refuse to Marry if they do not want to., most islamic marriages are more protected by these fatal relationships you mentioned then any other types around the world., would you argue with ALLAH?
Islam protects Sisters from what you just posted, the couple is usually under scrutiny for getting married for the right reasons and Islam discourages marriages like this if they can not meet the criteria.
allowed in ISlam, its very rare and un orthodox to, this is your fear speaking or someone attacking Islam., who ever did this is not Muslim. If both the Brother and Sister do there duty as Muslims itis all fine Jenni., you marry under Islamic guides then it works.
in islamic marriages, what other marriages do you find more strict then Islam's which protects Sisters even after devorce? The rest that you keep mentioning is typical fears Sisters have who never married or married a kafir.
which is impossible for the woman to carry out. Polygamy works very well under Islamic rulings like i mentioned., that the Sisters have been provided well, stable to keep there faith and the grooms above other lower degrading desires. Islam has even influenced the West with alimony or other Rights for woman, of-course been that they are not Brothers or Sisters in the west these rules are abused and the consequences show for them. ALLAH knows best how to protect many single sisters and woman out there who out number brothers, who will take care of this sisters? So 1-You can marry up to 4 as long as your supporting and love them equally under strict islamic rules., This superseded the 100+ wives, or mistresses which was allowed in the bible. The Qur'an is the only book in the world that limits wives, raises there dignity in society and prohibits abuse of the oath to marriage., life is very hard and everyone knows it, we all also make mistakes but the Islamic guidelines are not responsible for the mistakes, the people are. WHY ALL THIS? It is the point of "AVOIDING DIVORCE" ALLAH DOES NOT like devorce. If a brother decides to divorce a wife, he has to fallow a even more strict path Islamically. My only question is does a brother have to treat the prior wives equally in in affection and love if this is the reason he marries another sister?, relationships do fade. So if they need to move on peacefully and marry another sister to avoid fornication and start a new family, to support and provide for prior sisters is not sin, its a blessing for the sisters if the relationship fails in the first place. |
Posted By: human
Date Posted: 27 July 2005 at 11:53pm
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In my experience even parents find it difficult to love their own children equally. So it is hard to believe that there are men who can love multiple wives equally. Also, I want at least one lady on this forum say, I wish men would ask their first wife for her consent before taking on another. And perhaps polyandry would make sense in certain cases (say the husband is sterile). So why don't muslims support it? Be that as it may, that's why I believe that religious books should restrict themselves to a few fundamental good deeds, and leave the rest to people to decide what is best for them. Because these things change with time and locale. In practice, that's really what happens. For example, all these quotes from Koran are well and good, but many would be illegal in countries like USA. Peace, Human. |
Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 6:40am
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Jibreel, I understand what you are saying but listen to this. There are
most parts of the world where the proportion to men and women are equal
except certian regions like Irag or Afghanistan where more men have
been killed in war. In places like Saudi Arabia where some Muslims have
more money and can marry more than one wife, the chance for poorer men
to marry is much more diffucult. A rich guy might have 2,3 or even 4
wives and a lower class worker guy might not be able to find a wife at
all, leading him to sin. I know many people who say this is common in
the Gulf states and in some other parts of the world. Even here in
America, brothers are having a hard time finding a wife, so good for
you, if you marry more than one. What good men you are, being selfish
and not leaving any companion for your brothers!!!! By the way in India
and China the Population of women is Declining. Soon there will be more
men than women in the world. Good luck boys, I hope your rich!!!
------------- You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly. |
Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 8:45am
Peace
Well if your used to the U.S.A. you really have not experienced a love like Islam or other people who are true to there faith., i understand and heard this before. But history has proved that men abused this in western religions by having hundreds of children like J.S. Bach or King Solomon (PBUH) for example but this abuse calls for redemption.
The first wife should always Marry with the promise before the witnesses that the husband always asks her permission unless they do not love each other any more later and there is a seperation. Its a duty to ALLAH that comes first though, and very strict for the brothers to support the wives.
Un fortunatly, this is impossible for any human bieng since it envolved having marriages at the same time and supporting the men and feeding children too. Polygamy is not about having several sexual partners as it the non west miss inter-pits it, i say west since India practices polygamy abusively, Polygamy is about been married to several wives at the same time avoiding divorces., no woman can have several houses with several husbands and the babies in different houses at the same time, impossible to do for any human beings., But there is a acceptation to a agreement on the wife's side if she has lots of money and accepts to support her self in the case there is a separation between them and he is going to leave for another woman or she prefers her own place and a devorce.
There was never anything illegal in the Qur'an in the U.S., Islam allows people to worship how they please and with any religion they please, but they can not attack muslims for there faith, especially the way they did to Jesus (PBUH) and others who spoke out against oppression by tyrrants. Polygamy has only been called up in certian countries to be stopped in the recent 80+ years from the fears conservative Catholics had of the growing religion of islam., and to control the population and economy., for Islam means peace and ALLAH rules over life and death. Mormons still practice polygammy in the U.S. so the so called war on islam is and was a secret war all along. Also, the U.S. A has adopted more Islamic laws then any other western countries, -Equal rights, -Freedom of speech, where woman still can not talk to a priest today. -Non discrimination of race or the sexes, I can go on.... Basically the U.S. adopted and exploited these beliefs by mixing them up with a economical system which defers to secure woman's rights., to simply put it, a capitalist society is about the money., not deeds., and certainly not a democracy word by word a fact. Many try to argue with this facts that Islam means peace in society, but they have no evidence to support but that they fit into the pack of hypocrites who fallow conjecture and take false witness, usually from a racial point of view to reject the idea that God created arabs too., so what God is it that created them who could not create me and you then? sound slike Statan's tribe? It is not in anyones right to Judge Islam, Believers (Muslims, Jews or christians) and or even ALLAH ( God )by the mistakes people make., we are all here to over come the tests with abstinence over lusts. I believe Islam's guidelines also prohibit also the arab tribal or religious sect ideas of man made laws like for example "pre marriage arrangements" with the prides face covered |
Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 28 July 2005 at 9:21am
This is still the woman's rights club in Islam, no matter how much there cultures or money interfere. The woman can decide before the Imam and witnesses and also her Witness friend investigates to make sure her groom can provide, if she decides to marry a poor muslim and accepts a rag as a gift, its her choice to love him., people live in trailer homes and even on the streets in the U.S.A., also remember that Masjids contribute to help the poor young couples start a family if its all agreed to before witnesses, its about a family not sexual partners, i think your mixing up non muslim men here and bad intentions by disbelievers no?.
Well it takes 2 to do this., and fornication is a sin period.
I agree that its hard, especially when some masjids do not allow woman to pray together with the men., or separate rooms. But if Islam is put to practice correctly you would not of even came accross this problem., its a very pure way of life, pure in innocence and higher standards of morals, its a experience if one has never been a muslim., like a heaven on earth.
No sisters are ever for sale., its not America where some choose any terribly ugly alcoholic man for financial security. No one has the power to choose for the sister in a ISLAMIC marriage, not even the IMAM., the whole ceromoney is based around the Sister.
Maybe Chinese men you mean., But it is not necessary at all to even think like this, these countries have laws to prohibit births of girls, ALLAH condems anyone who tries to control life and murders there children, which existed in the Prophets time as well (PBUH)., when baby girls where barried by proud tribal parents who wanted boys. I agree that SISTERS have to speak out if there is a battle of the sexes, its a evil thing period and exists all over western societies where woman get exploited until they are un desireables and subjected to men. It is the right of every sister in Islam to speak out against this., but the battle of the sexes does not exist in Islam, although there are few people who are new to it and think so. The rest about Arabia is culture, not all the people in Islamic countries are muslims and or realy practice, though most do., so yes its expected to hear men abuse this. |
Posted By: ummsaleh
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 11:55am
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Oh my god- A muslim womans worse nightmare. I'm married into a wealthy family in the middle east and I love islam, but i've told my husband that if even thinks to marry i'll leave, and he can have everything, who cares about money. I have so many friends that their husbands have married on them and who do they marry, dancers/ nightclub singers. Their nice American muslim wife having baby after baby covered from head to toe. How can these men use islam? That's why women get angry/ when married men take another wife it's not a widow or older woman/ women from war areas.It's usually a virgin or someone he has fallen in love with. please forgive me i've had too many friends with bad experiences. ------------- Lost somewhere in the Middle East. |
Posted By: jibreel
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 1:52pm
Actually Muslims do not have these types of problems, as i already mentioned how polygamy works in Islam. And the Husband does not get everything, she the sister does.
They do not., and its there choice who they marry and how they dress., if they do not like it they can live outside more stricter areas.
Muslims do not fall in Love with others the way you described it, its not possible., infact they see love as a infactuation, true love is to marry out of piety and make the sacrifise for another by doin Gods will for each other. i think you are mixing up western polygamy issues with islam and or even India., in the west with a capitalist society woman can be oppressed to be subjected to men, where money is everything there is shame. To narrow it down, the crimes against woman are more in the west, here in spain one woman dies everyday from alcoholic abusive catholic husbands., it is a fact. Also in brazil more domestic problems with jealous men beating and killing there woman as well as double standards that they can see others. But the U.S. tops it all with crimes been the highest when it comes to domestic violence, crimes against woman, and even white collar crimes as well. |
Posted By: ummsaleh
Date Posted: 30 July 2005 at 10:36pm
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Oh come on Jibreel I've seen it with my eyes, women left with nothing and no rights. Womens rights in Saudi, lol ------------- Lost somewhere in the Middle East. |
Posted By: muslim_gal1988
Date Posted: 27 August 2005 at 5:11pm
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just wanted to say SALAAMZ
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