Interfaith Dialogue - It’s all a test

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It’s all a test

Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1588
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Topic: It’s all a test

Posted By: copenhagen
Subject: It’s all a test
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 3:21am

Hello,
stealing this comment from another thread.

Community wrote:

"Some people before you asked questions and on that account lost their faith" they should have realized everything is a test and the only reality is His reality, to whom all power belongs.

guess the conversation could go two ways.
A) "everything is a test"
B) "His reality"

I feel that A would be a subset of B, but B wouldn't necessarily envelope A. So, I opted to title the thread with the first point :)

So, is it all a test? Is that the purpose for the pain?

Thoughts, comments?

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Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith.

Replies:

Posted By: aisha
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 7:23am

salaam,you know there are many poor and hungrey people out there,i belive allah(swt)is testing us to see if we help these people or not.allah knows what he is doing there is a reason why he does things we may never know why,some things are apparent we know why some things happen,we just have to trust allah(swt).

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aisha

Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 7:58am

Hi Sam,

Muslims do believe that the life of this world is a test/trial. Here are some Qur'anic verses that point to this:

"Verily, it is We who have created man out of a drop of sperm intermingled, so that We might try him (in his later life): and therefore We made him a being endowed with hearing and sight." 76:2

"And most certainly shall We try you by means of danger, and hunger, and loss of worldly goods, of lives and of (labour's) fruits. But give glad tidings unto those who are patient in adversity - who, when calamity befalls them, say, "Verily, unto Allah do we belong and, verily, unto Him we shall return." It is they upon whom their Sustainer's blessings and grace are bestowed, and it is they, they who are on the right path!" 2:155-157

"You shall most certainly be tried in your possessions and in your persons; and indeed you shall hear many hurtful things from those to whom revelation was granted before your time, as well as from those who have come to ascribe divinity to other beings beside Allah. But if you remain patient in adversity and conscious of Him - this, behold, is something to set one's heart upon." 3:186

"And know ye that your possessions and your progeny are but a trial; and that it is Allah with whom lies your highest reward." 8:28

I hope this is helpful.

Peace, ummziba.

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Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~

Posted By: Lehua
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 9:42am

Assalamu alaikum,

Everything in this world is a test and the basic test is our belief in Allah(SWT). Everything can be brought back to this point.

Example:

Allah(SWT) is the provider of eveything, therefore everything that we have is given to us by Him. Our test is if we use the things that he has given us in His name. Do we give charity? Do we spend Lavishly? Are we holding on to it to take to our grave?

Everything happens for a reason and Allah(SWT) would never put a burden on a person that they could not handle. Our test is how do we react when bad things happen in this world? Ask Allah(SWT) for guidence? Curse and say 'Why me'? Thank the Allah(SWT) for the blessings that we have? Any situation can be turned around depending on the perspective that it is looked at. Nothing happens that is negative, we just don't know the outcome.

Insallah this has clarified your question.

Peace & Blessings, Lehua

Posted By: copenhagen
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 11:14am

aisha wrote:

wa laikum asalaam (sp?

)

the poor, the orphans...
the environment?

da'wah?
memorizing a bit more of the Quran?

How does one define which tests are most relevant? I'd think we could list lots of potential tests, but we really only focus on a couple, at most, at any given stage in life.

If "it" is all a test, just what exactly is the test? How can one pass "the test" if one doesn't know what the test is?

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Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith.

Posted By: copenhagen
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 11:30am

ummziba wrote:

"And most certainly shall We try you by means of danger, and hunger, and loss of worldly goods, of lives and of (labour's) fruits. But give glad tidings unto those who are patient in adversity - who, when calamity befalls them, say, "Verily, unto Allah do we belong and, verily, unto Him we shall return." It is they upon whom their Sustainer's blessings and grace are bestowed, and it is they, they who are on the right path!" 2:155-157

"You shall most certainly be tried in your possessions and in your persons; and indeed you shall hear many hurtful things from those to whom revelation was granted before your time, as well as from those who have come to ascribe divinity to other beings beside Allah. But if you remain patient in adversity and conscious of Him - this, behold, is something to set one's heart upon." 3:186

"And know ye that your possessions and your progeny are but a trial; and that it is Allah with whom lies your highest reward." 8:28

Hello ummziba,

Yes, those are very well selected ayat.

I pretend to know a lot about christianity, but off hand, can't think of any bible verses

Anyone got any regarding life as a test?

Peace,

Sam

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Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith.

Posted By: copenhagen
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 11:44am

Lehua wrote:

Assalamu alaikum,
Everything in this world is a test and the basic test is our belief in Allah(SWT). Everything can be brought back to this point.
Example:
Allah(SWT) is the provider of eveything, therefore everything that we have is given to us by Him. Our test is if we use the things that he has given us in His name. Do we give charity? Do we spend Lavishly? Are we holding on to it to take to our grave?

Everything happens for a reason and Allah(SWT) would never put a burden on a person that they could not handle. Our test is how do we react when bad things happen in this world? Ask Allah(SWT) for guidence? Curse and say 'Why me'? Thank the Allah(SWT) for the blessings that we have? Any situation can be turned around depending on the perspective that it is looked at. Nothing happens that is negative, we just don't know the outcome.

wa laikum as-sala'am,

that is a very nicely presented summary.

I think a Christian could copy-and-paste it, replacing the letters A-l-l-a-h-s-w-t with the letters G-o-d.

Peace,

Sam

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Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith.

Posted By: Meedo
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 4:29pm

salam

The purpose of life is to worship God . Worshipping means recognizing him as God and obeying him.

Peace

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Meedo

Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 6:22pm

The test thankfulness or ungratefulness, ungratefulness is ignorance. Thankfulness to Him is faith.

How much can one realize that The Kingdom(Dominion is His), how much can someone let go of his own opinions and stubborness and know that to Allah belongs the whole affair, Allah says in the koran that He will certainly reward the thankful. How much is someone able to sacrifice for His sake. The way of our father Abraham which the prophet and the faithful followed shows us what sacrifice is, Allah commanded him to sacrifice his son and i believe he loved his son more then anything else in the world, when Abraham made the dicision to slay his son and the only thing left to do was move his hand for the knife to cut, Allah called out to Him that he (Abraham) completed the vision. In other words he has obeyed Allah and sacrificed his son, Allah is The Merciful so for this sacrifice of his, Allah gave him back his son and Him being pleased with him, His nearness. Allah took Abraham (Ibraaheem) as a friend.

He looked to a star and said this is my Lord, and then said the moon was His lord and then that His Lord is the sun because it was bigger. But when it set, He came to the conclusion that Allah who created everything is His Lord. If someone reasoned like this nowadays about a star being his Lord some people might kill him, because they say that he is commiting shirk, And Allah took Abraham as a friend. Abraham was sincere and truthful. And we are commanded by Allah to follow the way of Abraham. He was neither jew nor christian but one who submitted to Allah wishing to please Him.

Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 23 July 2005 at 6:40pm

Do not forget also Ibraheem's reasoning with the unjust ruler who claimed to be The god, Abraham said to him Allah is He who gives life to the dead and makes them die, the king replied i give life and make them die. Then Abraham said: Allah is He who comes with the sun from the east, then you come with it from the west.

2:258 Have you not seen him who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Gives life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that comes with the sun from the east: Do thou then come with the sun from the west." Thus was he confounded who covers up(who denied, disbelieved). And Allah does not guide the people who darken (are unjust).

Posted By: copenhagen
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 1:06pm

Peace all,

I googled for this subject last night, and found a thread that got really nasty with "my version of the test is better than yours". As you may guess from my sig, I don't want to see that happen. I find it very beautiful that everyone placed the greatest importance on Allah, and that someone brought up the importance of helping others. Diverse with room for personal expression, yet firmly grounded :)

Community wrote:

He looked to a star and said this is my Lord, and then said the moon was His lord and then that His Lord is the sun because it was bigger. But when it set, He came to the conclusion that Allah who created everything is His Lord. If someone reasoned like this nowadays about a star being his Lord some people might kill him, because they say that he is commiting shirk, And Allah took Abraham as a friend. Abraham was sincere and truthful. And we are commanded by Allah to follow the way of Abraham. He was neither jew nor christian but one who submitted to Allah wishing to please Him.

Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 3:50pm

copenhagen wrote:

Peace all,

I googled for this subject last night, and found a thread that got really nasty with "my version of the test is better than yours". As you may guess from my sig, I don't want to see that happen. I find it very beautiful that everyone placed the greatest importance on Allah, and that someone brought up the importance of helping others. Diverse with room for personal expression, yet firmly grounded :)

I recall reading the above account in a different context -- the person used it as an example of pantheism/polytheism/idolitry in Islam :( Talk about missing the boat, hey?

I found the following lessons:
1) People will come to monotheism from different backgrounds
2) Things of this world are temporary, God is eternal

But, now to bring up the debate...
I can understand why Muslims dislike the idea presented by the majority of Christians who equate Jesus with God. But I honestly can't see where the disagreement lies with a common Jewish person you may come across on the street. i will give you my opinion but ofcourse it might be true in parts and flawed in other parts. The problem lies in history and their hiding of knowledge, They killed messengers before and their ancestors claimed to have killed Jesus (the peace is upon him), and denied his teachings and threw it into the world through the romans transformed into Allah having a son(which was accepted easily by the romans because gods have sons in their methology) and other mistranslations and interpretations which jews were responsible for because they translated it from hebrew to Latin, the roman church forced it upon the rest of europe and the jews looked on without any objection to this lie against Allah. Jesus came to the jews and they did not accept it and threw his teachings transformed away to the rest of the world. Jew in arabic is yahood, it has a connection to the word hodaa which means guidance, the responsibility of the chosen people lays in guidance, a clear example of modern days is their control of the media and hollywood, you know how easy it could be for them to show the people the truth if they wished to? if they followed His will and took their responsibility towards the rest of mankind as serious? instead of the truth, they confuse people to the point of hopelessness and anger because they preceive that as more porfitable and with support from their false teachings of only jews will enter paradise and the rest of mankind is for them to use, not to say all of them are like that. But most of them in my view are, atleast those are. Ofcourse jews have much to blame us for also, for instance our looking on while Hitler was killing them by the millions, although there are Moroccan allied soldiers burried in Belgium and The netherlands who fought along the side of the allies against the Nazi's. And i do not like the use of the word "if", but it is tempting to say "if their ancestors had not given the transformed teachings to the romans and "christianity" was not spread into europe and europe would have been left out of the roman version of christianity that genocide would never have happened, but everything is in His plan so that they may return to Him. And i am sure our intollerance which is unjust could be used against us. But i remain with that those who's name is connected to guidance have the biggest responsibility in even the muslim intollerance. The chosen people, i do not envy them because their responsibility is big and we all have different responsibilities. One of ours is patience, and some of us fail in this responsibility too. So it is time to better ourselves and i see good signs. The Most important thing is in this time of fear is to give the fear to the one who created it, The Creator has the most right to His creation so this also goes for fear and He knows best what to do with your fear and why He created it in you(everything is His) and He is The Merciful, but to place it in something or someone else will make you unjust, because then your motives will not be Him but something else, and everything else comes to an end except His Face.

From the above comments, worshipping God is presented as being most important. Honestly, common folks don't put that much time and effort into faith.

This is going to sound very rude...
I can't see the difference between Islam and Judaism. One follows whatever one was born into. Everyone is born a muslim you mean? this is true for all of mankind, you come in this world submitted to Him, you do not know what a dad or mother is. Being born into what you preceive as a muslim family is no garantee that you are safe is it? so everyone has a responsibility of searching for the truth.

Fire away :) I'll keep my mouth shut and learn a bit now.

Posted By: copenhagen
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 7:04pm

Community wrote:

I can't see the difference between Islam and Judaism. One follows whatever one was born into.

Everyone is born a muslim you mean? this is true for all of mankind, you come in this world submitted to Him, you do not know what a dad or mother is. Being born into what you preceive as a muslim family is no garantee that you are safe is it? so everyone has a responsibility of searching for the truth.

Doh, didn't see that coming.

Don't you think it is fair to say that a child born to practicing Jewish parents would see Islam in a slightly different light than a child born to practicing Muslim parents? Both pray to the God of Abraham and Adam, of Moses and Noah. I would think a normal Jewish kid on the street would see Islam as monotheism for the rest of the world

Thank for the time and your patience. I would agree that "everyone has a responsibility of searching for the truth".

By the same token, I feel everyone has a degree of responsibility of presenting their faith in the best possible light. Must say, many folks on this forum are doing a good job.

Peace,

Sam

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Some people before you asked questions, and on that account lost their faith.

Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 24 July 2005 at 8:18pm

copenhagen wrote:

Doh, didn't see that coming.

Don't you think it is fair to say that a child born to practicing Jewish parents would see Islam in a slightly different light than a child born to practicing Muslim parents? Yes, and i appreciate you using the word "light" because aslong it is seen in light it is good. It is in darkness that injustice is done. Both pray to the God of Abraham and Adam, of Moses and Noah. I would think a normal Jewish kid on the street would see Islam as monotheism for the rest of the world

Yes and not as something to hinder other people from through mis information and instilling fear in people for it.

Thank for the time and your patience. I would agree that "everyone has a responsibility of searching for the truth".

By the same token, I feel everyone has a degree of responsibility of presenting their faith in the best possible light. Must say, many folks on this forum are doing a good job. aslong as it is in some light it is good, although i write mostly in the darkness of night, i do have lamps on. Truely the invention of the lightbulb is a wonderous invention.

Peace,

Sam