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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: General Islamic Matter
Forum Description: Discuss Islamic matters/issues that not covered by other sub catagories
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16275
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Topic: Need help

Posted By: calvindamenace
Subject: Need help
Date Posted: 27 January 2010 at 12:43pm

Assalamu-alaikum brothers and sisters.. I am a new convert (if you can call me that since I have stopped praying and grew confused about islam), recently due to some changes in my life I moved back to my native country Ukraine, particularly in an area where there are no muslims or almost none. Since I am a new convert, I had and still have a lot of questions, I mean at first I was so moved by islam and after I came back here and started reading about it online I became really confused.. Are we really guided by Quran? Or by Hadith and Sunnah? I wonder about praying.. let's say I went on a walk in woods, around here it snows a lot during winter and it gets as cold as -4F, how do you pray? Do you take off your shoes? How do you make wudu in such weather? Also hadith.. there's so much confusing stuff about it.. I think I red somewhere where prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came up to someone who was sleeping on his stomach and kicked(!!?!) him telling it's not good to sleep on stomach, why is that? I heard we have to sleep on a right side, I wonder who cares how I sleep?? And kicking a person? Why not to touch him on a shoulder? Why did our prophet (pbuh) had more then four wives? What about Aisha, why is she "favourite" wife? Isn't it against Quran? And why did revelations about her not committing adultary came so late? ..Please answer.. these are only couple of many that I have, thanks in advance.

Replies:

Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 27 January 2010 at 9:57pm

Uri S wrote:

Assalamu-alaikum brothers and sisters.. I am a new convert (if you can call me that since I have stopped praying and grew confused about islam), recently due to some changes in my life I moved back to my native country Ukraine, particularly in an area where there is no muslims or almost none. Since I am a new convert, I had and still have a lot of questions, I mean at first I was so moved by islam and after I came back here and started reading about it online I became really confused.. Are we really guided by Quran? Or by Hadith and Sunnah?

We guided by both. Hadith usually explain about thing that quran doesn't say it in detail. For example about 5 daily salat (prayer). Quran just ask you to do it, but doesn't tell you how. How we perform salat we get it from hadith. As far as I know there is no contradiction between quran and hadith. If there is Quran have higher hierarchy.

Uri S wrote:

I wonder about praying.. let's say I went on a walk in woods, around here it snows a lot during winter and it gets as cold as -4F, how do you pray?

Do you take off your shoes? How do you make wudu in such weather?

Islam is not make you difficult. There is many dispensation in shalat. If you can not wudhu, due to sickness or no water, or any other condition impossible to perform wudhu you can do tayamum (put your hand on any surface then rub your hand, face and arms). Regarding shoes, when you are in a warm place (inside your house etc) take wudhu completely with taking of your shoes then put your shoes and sock on, after that let say you go outside or whatever if you need to do wudhu again you don't need to put you shoes or socks off. If you are not traveling you can wudhu without putting your shoes for 24 hours but if your traveling you can do this for 3 days. Regarding how to perform shalat if you can not do perfectly with ruku and sujud (prostrate) you can do with sitting in the chair etc. Basically in general Islam is easy and doesn't like you have difficulties.

For the rest I'll answer some other time, or somebody else will do.

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Salam/Peace,

Semar

"We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH)

"1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air"

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 3:05am

Quoting Semar:
"We guided by both. Hadith usually explain about thing that quran doesn't say it in detail. For example about 5 daily salat (prayer). Quran just ask you to do it, but doesn't tell you how. How we perform salat we get it from hadith. As far as I know there is no contradiction between quran and hadith. If there is Quran have higher hierarchy."

Isn't Ouran complete as we say..?

Quoting Semar:
"Islam is not make you difficult. There is many dispensation in shalat. If you can not wudhu, due to sickness or no water, or any other condition �impossible to perform wudhu you can do tayamum (put your hand on any surface then rub your hand, face and arms). Regarding� shoes, when you are in a warm place (inside your house etc) take wudhu completely with taking of your shoes then put your shoes and sock on, after that let say you go outside or whatever�if you�need to do wudhu again you don't need to put you shoes or socks off. If you are not traveling you can wudhu without putting your shoes for 24 hours but if your traveling you can do this for 3 days. Regarding how to perform shalat if you can not do perfectly with ruku and sujud (prostrate) you can do with sitting in the chair etc. Basically in general Islam is easy and doesn't like you have difficulties."

Thanks for explanation and yeah I know islam should not be a burden, yet I didn't get an answer to my question.. Like I said imagine that I am on a walk in woods, it had snowed and theres couple inches of snow.. There's a river close by that is not frozen yet, so I do have water to perform wudu, but can you imagine what will happen to me if I get my hair wet while it's -4F?? Or should I perform tayamum with snow? It wouldn't be pleasant I'd tell you that. And if I perform salat outside while being wet it's sure one of the ways to get sick, don't you think? Answer anyone? Thanks.

P.S. Sorry about my post, haven't figured out how to use all the options.

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 7:22am

[QUOTE=Uri S]Assalamu-alaikum brothers and sisters.. I am a new convert (if you can call me that since I have stopped praying and grew confused about islam),

Wa'laikum Salam wa rahmatullah

Welcome to the discussions at Islamicity, brother.

All Praises be to Allah, that you shared your doubts with us here. Insha Allah, we shall try our best to help you in gaining knowledge.

recently due to some changes in my life I moved back to my native country Ukraine, particularly in an area where there are no muslims or almost none.

Brother, is it not possible that you move to a place where there are muslims.

Since I am a new convert, I had and still have a lot of questions,

Yes, you shud have questions. These questions are sign of a healthy mind . Islam has answers to all the questions that rise, during this process of clearing our doubts, we gain lots of knowledge. Don't take this {questions} as a negative aspect, as said, its a good sign. Even we get lots of questions and get them cleared, alhamdullilah.

Also hadith.. there's so much confusing stuff about it.. I think I red somewhere where prophet Muhammad (pbuh) came up to someone who was sleeping on his stomach and kicked(!!?!) him telling it's not good to sleep on stomach, why is that? I heard we have to sleep on a right side, I wonder who cares how I sleep?? And kicking a person? Why not to touch him on a shoulder?

Good question.

Don't you think, bro. that Islam is a complete way of life. It teaches us how to sit, how to walk, how to drink water, how to eat our food, and indeed how to sleep ! All these actions and sayings of our Prophet , which we call as sunnahs, are today proven by scientifically correct. We muslims follow these sunnahs, with the intentions that we are obeying Allah's command by following Prophet.

We were discussing about sleep, right ! {Here's sharing from sunnipath and a blog as well}

Shaykh Abdul Haq in his book Madarijun Nabuwa states,

"because the heart is on the left one will not be satisfied with the sleep and the person will sleep heavily not knowing his state. If one sleeps on the right side the heart dangles meaning a person cannot sleep heavily. This benefits a person as he can look after himself and his family if anything happens. A major benefit is that one will not miss the morning prayeras one is not engaged in heavy sleep.

Gilbert found that if researchers had pooled the results of the oldest studies and analyzed them, they might have gotten a big hint by 1970 that putting babies to sleep on their stomachs raised the risk of SIDS. Instead, that observation did not become convincing until the late 1980s.

Researchers now know that sleeping on the stomach raises the risk of SIDS sevenfold. That realization led to "Back to Sleep" campaigns in Britain in 1991 and in the United States in 1994. The meaning of SIDS is (sudden infant death syndrome )

Between 1970 and the unveiling of that advice, 11,000 British infants -- who might have survived if sleeping on the back had been the norm -- died of SIDS. In the United States, Europe and Australia, "at least 50,000 excess deaths were attributable to harmful health advice," Gilbert and her colleagues wrote.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/01/AR2006010100749.html - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/01/AR2006010100749.html

Today science tells us that it is best to sleep on the right side or back and not on the left side and stomach. Glory be to Allah, how did the glorious Prophet Muhammad know this back in his time? Truly he is a great example for us all to follow (Surah 33:21) for all time.

Also read this, insha Allah, shall help us increase our knowledge.

HADITH; Hadhrat Aisha radhiallahu anha states, "Whosoever sleeps after Asr salah and loses their intellect only has themselves to blame. "
SCIENCE; A gas exits from the earth at the time of Asr salah which is heavy and can effect a person's mind and heart. If a person sleeps before Isha, the body also sleeps and cannot fight this gas hence causing illnesses.

QUOTE]

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 7:42am

Why did our prophet (pbuh) had more then four wives?

First, of all let�s talk some facts and history about marrying more than one�

Before Islam (in many cultures and religions) it was normal for people to marry many women at the same time without any limitation whatsoever.

Marrying more than one isn�t an Islamic �invention�. For instance, Prophet David (PBUH) was said to have about 300 women (wives and all). And prophet Soliman (PBUH) was said to have about 700 women.

When Islam came, it put the limitation of 4 (with conditions).

When the above Quranic verse was revealed, all muslims (whom had more than 4 wives) had to limit themselves to 4 or less (depending on the case). And so they did.

Yet, at that time the prophet (PBUH) was married to 9 wives (before this order was revealed), and he didn�t divorce them.
Why? Here�s why�

Let it be know that in Islam, the Prophet�s wives are of special value and stance. They are not like any other women�

What a lot of people don�t know (I being one of them before I researched for answers), is that before the above verse (limiting to 4 wives) was revealed\descended to the prophet, another order (rule) was revealed\descended a while back�

That order was mentioned in this verse (from Al Ahzaab):

God descended an order that �no one was to marry any of the women the Prophet married�.

Before applying that ruling on the wives, they were provided a choice�either to stay his wives and stick to the ruling (never to remarry again) or for them to get divorced at that time� they all preferred to stay with him!

The reasons for such a rule (his wives never to remarry)are obvious, it was to protect the prophet and his wives (whether while or after the prophet passed away) from any form of harm or mistreatment.

Imagine for example, after the prophet�s death any of his wives would remarry, and be mistreated in any way by a husband. Imagine (as a muslim) the impact of this on us!!

Or even if any of his wives would remarry, and be verbally mocked by atheists (who were ready to use anything just to demoralize or mock the prophet, his wives and muslims). You can imagine the type of low talk that can be used in such a situation, no need to mention it here.

This of course was important because the wives of the prophet have a very special stance in Islam (after all they are called �Mothers of all Muslims�).

So, here is the situation:
1- God said the prophet�s wives (9 of them at the time) are not to remarry after him.
2- God ordered muslims not to marry more than 4 at the same time.

In other words, the prophet will have to divorce 5 out of the 9 he had as wives at that point. Those 5 will neither be his wives nor any one else's (unlike all other women who when divorced can remarry).

Out of God�s mercy for the Prophet�s wives, He descended this verse:

t is an order from God directed to the prophet (specifically) never to marry anymore women at all (keeping the 9 he already has). And that he (the prophet) does not have the right to replace his wives (divorce one or more and marry new ones while keeping his limit of wives at 9).

And this rule (that applied to him only) was the answer for his situation (since he had 9 wives whom cannot remarry again).

So, from that point on... neither could the prophet remarry nor could his wives!

Special case, special reason and that was that.

Source : Blogspot - Fadfation.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 7:44am

Insha Allah, shall answer your rest of the questions, soon.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 9:29am

Wa Alaikum Asslam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barkatuh

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

First, I am so glad to see you brother, and welcome to the IC, Wish you get the whole benefit. Smile

It is really nice that you share and ask about anything you do not understand,, we are all here to learn from each other.

Well, brother, I am not a scholar, but I am a sister who cares for you and prays that Allah guides you. I want to add my few cents.

Here are some points, I would like to share.

1- The method of studying Islam starts from the base of Islam. We believe that Allah created the whole world and put it in a great order. He loves us and wants the best for us, SO that He subhanah, orders us to do everything that is good and healthy for us and forbids us from doing anything that harms us. We need to pray because Allah wants us to be close to Him all the time, to be guided and helped by Him. But Islam never wants anything hard or difficult for us. There are many many verses in Quraan that tell us how Allah is full of mercy and never asks us to do anything we can not bear or that might be harmful for us.

2.286 On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. Quraan.

2.185 Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

So if the weather is so cold and you know that it might harm you, so you must NOT use water and if you used it while you know it harms you, then you did a sin.

Jabir said, "We were on a journey and one of us got injured. Later, he had a wet dream. He asked his companions, 'Can I perform tayammum?' They said, 'No, not if you have water.' He performed ghusl and died. When they came to the Messenger of Allah, they informed him of what had transpired. He said, 'They killed him, Allah will kill them. Do you not ask if you do not know? The rescue of the ignorant person is the question. He could have performed tayammum and dropped water on his wound or wrapped it with something and wipe over the wrapping, and wash the rest of his body." This is related by Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, ad-Daraqutni and Ibn as-Sakin, who said it is sahih.

2.195 and make not your own hands contribute to (your) destruction; but do good; for Allah loveth those who do good.

But Allah taught us that we can never miss the prayer and we need to do wudu or tayammum if we can not. SO you do what is not burden on you and avoid any harm. Do you know that if someone is sick and can not move any part of his body, he can pray moving his eyelids. SO Allah wants us to keep this prayer as mush as we can, because we need to pray to be protected and safe.. to be close to Allah and connected to Him, He is our creator and He knows the best of us. We do not pray or do any worship because Allah needs it,, He is the Needless but we need do need Him.

35.15 O ye men! It is ye that have need of Allah: but Allah is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise.

2- Why did the prophet peace be upon him kicked the man? You should read how he used to be so so so gentle not only with his companions but even with his enemies. He used to smile all the time. He used to put his hand on the shoulders, the chest,, or the thigh of the person he wants to talk to. He never takes his hand from the person when he shakes hands with him until the other person pull his hand.

The other part of the question about why he should care for the way we sleep,, I think sister Seekshidayath replied with good answer to this, Baraka Allah Fiha.

He, peace be upon him, did not acre only for the way we sleep,, he even cared for the way we do in the bathroom, may Allah raise your rank.

3- Why did he married more than the others? I just want to add my few cents. You should read the biography of the prophet peace be upon him to know that there was a reason for marring everyone of his wives. Some political reason, some social reason,, and some other reasons.

Why does he loved our mother Aisha, RAA? There are many reasons how she cared for him more and used to be special,, but at the end of the day,, the man sometimes loves a woman more than the other women for his own reasons and you know more as a man. Love is something comes from the heart,, and everyone has the right to love the one he wants but he is asked about doing what pleases Allah with them. He must be just in the things that he can do as a human being. ..........................................

I just want to you to stay strong. Being a Muslim in some societies is not that easy. BUT you need to ask Allah to help you and make you stronger.

You and all of us, need Allah more than everyone else. He is the only one who guides you and lightens your heart. You should ask more and learn more,, until you reach the moment that your heart loves and believes before it knows. Your heart will love to do what Allah wants before knowing why.. because your heart will be full of faith in him and love to Him.

I pray to Allah to guide us and make it easy for all of us to please Him and stay close to Him.. I hope you get the benefit form this.

Note:

You can use the site of the IslamiCity to study more, and want to suggest this site for studying Islam online.

An electronic certificate is awarded on completion of each course. This is completely free and online under supervision of Dr Bilal Philips.

http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.com/ - http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.com/

For personal reading following site has good commentary on Nawawi's 40 Hadith by Dr. Jamal Ahmed Badi, International Islamic University Malaysia

http://fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/ - http://fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/

Allah Hafiz

Admin: Edited just to remove unnecessary links and underlines.

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 28 January 2010 at 3:44pm

Thanks for replying.

..I think it'd be better if I number sayings and questions..

To seekshidayath:

1. Yes, belive me sister - there are almost no muslims around here, it's a little rural city in western Ukraine, eastern orthodoxy is a main religion around here. I heard about one guy, but he doesn't work as far as I know and he tries to be around his home when it's time to pray.. therefore he cannot answer my question.

2. Now.. slpeeping on a right side.. Well, there are people that are not able to sleep on a right side due to the problem with liver.. And then are you telling me that you go to sleep on a right side and always wake up on a right side? You got to be kidding me.. as for me I move all over my bed.

To Full Of Hopes:

First of all thanks for praying.

3.You haven't really brighten me up on a question that I've asked. I mean I already knew that islam shouldn't be a burden.. As for " Jabir said, "We were on a journey and one of us got injured. Later, he had a wet dream. He asked his companions, 'Can I perform tayammum?' They said, 'No, not if you have water.' He performed ghusl and died. When they came to the Messenger of Allah, they informed him of what had transpired. He said, 'They killed him, Allah will kill them. Do you not ask if you do not know? The rescue of the ignorant person is the question. He could have performed tayammum and dropped water on his wound or wrapped it with something and wipe over the wrapping, and wash the rest of his body." This is related by Abu Dawud, Ibn Majah, ad-Daraqutni and Ibn as-Sakin, who said it is sahih." I didn't get the situation.. What was better for a guy to perform a ghusl or tayammum?? Or performing both? And I really didn't get the passage where it says "He could have performed tayammum and dropped water on his wound or wrapped it with something and wipe over the wrapping, and wash the rest of his body." - seems like it's both.. If he was able to do ghusl what was the tayammum for?

4. "Why did the prophet (pbuh) kicked the man".. Strange, you didn't deny him (pbuh) doing it, therefore I take it did happen. You just told me that I should read how he (pbuh) was so gentle at other times.. I am not trying to say that he (pbuh) wasn't gentle, I am just trying to get an answer on this particular matter - as for why did he (pbuh) kick the man?

5. I still didn't get an answer to this neither: "let's say I went on a walk in woods, around here it snows a lot during winter and it gets as cold as -4F, how do you pray? Do you take off your shoes? How do you make wudu in such weather?" So do I perform wudu ..or tayammum with snow? Eather one in such weather would not be pleasant.. Cause I guess praying without wudu or tayammum is out of question. So WHAT DO I DO IN SUCH SITUATION??

And here are some new ones..

6. Satan causes yawning (Bukhari 73:245)

7. Oversleeping is caused by Satan urinating in one’s ear (Bukhari 54:492)

8. Spoons should be covered before going to bed (Bukhari 69:527)

9. Satan sleeps in ones nose, so water should be snorted each day (Bukhari 54:516)

Please explain, cause these really got me CONFUSED.

10. And a last one for now.. I was told numerous times that islam is religion of peace. Then why such hatred towards christians? And let's imagine for a moment that my christian (yes I was born into a christian family) parents got killed in a suicide attack. How should I feel as a muslim? Is he my brother dying for a cause or a killer of my parents? And if our religion is peace and we are so enlighten, how come we are using guns instead of words??

P.S. Don't get me wrong, these are just questions that are bothering me and all I want is some explanation. Tnanks in advance. Peace be with you.

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 29 January 2010 at 6:57am

Asslamu Alaikum

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على أله و صحبه

1- I really like it when you ask about everything you do not understand. But I still say you need a scholar to explain to you the whole situation. I provided the previous hadith just to tell you the man should not use water for his wound because it harms him. He can do ghusl for the whole body but just wipe on his wound again if it doesn't harm me. But I need to take a full answer from a scholar about the man's situation in this hadith.
As for you, if you know the water might harm you in this weather, I read in a book that YEAH, YOU CAN USE THE SNOW for tayammum if there is no sand in the area.

2 -As for kicking the man, I also wanted to tell you that, it was in a gentle way, not in the tough way someone can imagine and the man loved it because this is the way they loved the prophet peace be upon him and all his movements. I wanted to tell you, he used to do many gentle movements to teach them and kicking was like just one way to warn the man but it was NOT in the humiliating way someone can think. I guess you just saw the word and imagined that it was us not ok.. but it is fine with their great love to him, the way he did it is never humiliating because he was never tough on anyone. Let me tell you this. If you love your friend sooooo much, he comes and kicks you saying: hey, long time you do not call, what will you do? will you think this is humiliating????

They loved him more than that, and he knew that well. Let me tell you this nice story.

Prophet Mohammed [pbuh] told the army to stand upright and straight, but he saw that Sawad was not upright in standing, so he ordered him to stand upright. Sawad told Prophet Mohammed that he would but did not stand as was ordered by the Prophet.

So the Messenger of Allah approached Sawad and pricked him with his Sewak �Tooth Cleanser� in the stomach and told him to stand upright. Sawad told the Prophet [pbuh] that he caused him pain in the stomach and Allah sent you with the right, so I would like to avenge, i.e. let me top take revenge from you for pricking with Sewak. Prophet Mohammed [pbuh] revealed his stomach and told Sawad to take revenge. But Sawad, hurriedly, knelt down and kissed his stomach saying that is what he wanted to do as he thought it was the last day for him and he would be martyred so he wished to touch the Prophet�s skin as the last thing he would do in this worldly existence.

This is really their way,, and if you were their, full of Iman and love to him, you would never think he, peace be upon him, did a mistake.

forum_posts.asp?TID=16281"> Heart

If we are talking about him what would we say?

..............
The rest of your questions about things from Shyatan, are all from unseen things, that you believed in just because we are believers. Part of our faith is that you MUST believe in the unseen knowledge. And this is the difference between the Muslim and the NON_ Muslim. You can not see the Satan or what he does to you when you are sleeping. You just have to believe it cause the prophet peace be upon him said so. You can just feel you are lazy and depressed when you are used to pray and one day you did not wake up for the prayer, someone used to cry so bad when they miss it. It is a matter on Iman when it comes to the unseen knowledge.
.................

About the suicide and those bombs some use to kill the innocent with, you should never be affected by the terrorists because they are ignorant and they never represent Islam. You must not believe those are doing Jihad. THOSE are just killing and in fact some people do brain washing to them and send them telling them that this is Jihad while they themselves will NEVER KILL THEMSELVES. They just sent the youth of Muslims wash their brain and lie to them.

Jihad is part of Islam to defend the Islamic country and spread Islam all over the world because it is the truth. BUT it has nothing to do with killing women, kids and innocent people. Muslims in Jihad are allowed to KILL JUST THE SOLDIERS. YOU see what I mean dear brother.

I must say again, go back to the base of your Islam, make it so strong and then start asking for knowledge..you will find answers for all your questions in sha Allah.

May Allah guide you and open your heart for more and stronger Iman. You must not waste the time.. you had to learn more and teach people who are still in the darkness.

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 29 January 2010 at 7:04am

Dear Brother,

Just want to tell you this.. In Islam, you have the whole right to sleep the way you like. Allah will NOT punish you if you like to sleep on your stomach. Some things about your lifestyle, the way you sleep, the way you eat after you eat with the right hand.. you can use a spoon a fork a knife or whatever,, Islam just tells you that if you want the Sunnah, the more rewards, you do this,, but you are still a good Muslim and fine if you sleep on your stomach or eat with a spoon..

Do not worry yourself about optional things that are just to make us live better and more polite.. lol Big%20smile

Allah Hafiz

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 29 January 2010 at 6:32pm

As Salamu Alaikum

That was well-answered, sis. Subhan Allah.

There were two more questions unanswered

What about Aisha, why is she "favourite" wife? Isn't it against Quran?

Prophet {Sallal lahu alayhi wa sallam}, treated all his wife fairly. You must be knowing that. Regarding Ayesha RA being his favorite wife, that was because one can't be fair in regards to matters of heart. I mean, he may incline towards one wife for her good quality which he may not find in other, or may like an other wife for her other quality which first one may not possess. But otherwise, it is strictly commanded that one shud be fair, in regards with other rights.

What i learn from this hadith is , when Prophet sallal lahu alayhi wasallam was asked who is his favorite wife, he answered promptly answered Ayesha'. And when was asked about companion he likes most, he again answered Abu Bakr RA, promptly. This would teach us not be diplomatic, but straight forward. Anyways, slightly deviated from your question.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 29 January 2010 at 6:53pm

And why did revelations about her not committing adultary came so late? ..

Brother, that was a period of trial, personally to Ayesha RA, as well as all the people there. We see different type of people, few supporting her, few spreading gossips --- and many more. If the revelations were immediately sent, the hypocrisy of people would not have known at all. There are many lessons to be learnt out of this happening. It teaches us how to face and react in such conditions. Is n't it !

One of the revelations then were : 'And why did you not, when you heard it, say: "It is not right for us to speak of this" - Does this not teach is how to react if we hear such slanderings against any woman ? If the revelations were immediate, we would not have got to learn so many lessons out of it. Though, it was then a trial to Ayesha RA, but she is a role model for all muslimahs, as how to face such slanderings. Its very tough for any women to be in such conditions.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 30 January 2010 at 12:54pm

Asslamu Alaikum

1. "But I still say you need a scholar to explain to you the whole situation." Well, would anyone by any chance know a place online where a scholar would answer me?

2.As for a kicking a man.. would you please read this: "Another Hadith is the one narrated by Abu Umama (May Allah be pleased with him) he said: “When the Prophet (peace be upon him) passed a man sleeping on his front in the mosque he hit him with his feet and said: wake up and seat as this is a diabolic sleep”, He (pbuh) KICKED HIM WITH HIS FEET!! so I take it wasn't like a friendly kick from your friend "hey, long time no see", don't you think?

3."The rest of your questions about things from Shyatan, are all from unseen things, that you believed in just because we are believers. Part of our faith is that you MUST believe in the unseen knowledge." I see, well that's not what I was told. A brother that introduced me to islam reassured me that islam unlike christianity has reasoning in EVERYTHING and IT'S NOT A BLIND FAITH unlike christianity.. Let me quote from http://www.journeytoislam.com/Hear/Reasoning%20in%20Islam%20attracts%20me.htm - www.journeytoislam.com/Hear/Reasoning%20in%20Islam%20attracts%20me.htm "Muslims believe that Islam is a term synonymous with truth, and that under the glorious and ever-brilliant sun of Islam, by the light of reason and knowledge, truth can be obtained but in order to obtain that knowledge, and thus attain that truth, man must use his reasoning faculties.", "One of the glories of Islam is that it is founded upon reason, and that it never demands from its followers an abnegation of that important mental faculty. Unlike certain other faiths, which insist upon their votaries implicitly accepting certain dogmas without independent inquiry, but simply on the authority of "The Church", Islam courts inquiry and counsels its disciples to study, search and investigate prior to acceptation. The Holy Prophet, of ever-blessed memory, said: "Allah hath not created anything better than reason, the benefits which Allah giveth are on its account, and understanding is begotten of it.".. Well, that sure makes sence unlike of what you've said.. accepting something on faith, blindly without explanation is unacceptable to me, what if your message is wrong.. and I blindly follow you.. that just might cost me an eternity. Thanks, but no.

4."Why did he married more than the others? I just want to add my few cents. You should read the biography of the prophet peace be upon him to know that there was a reason for marring everyone of his wives. Some political reason, some social reason,, and some other reasons." Fine, explain to me what was the reason to marry Zayd's ex-wife? And here's a passage for you to read: "I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: “Give me that girl.” (Sahih Muslim 4345)" What was a reason to ask for that girl?

5.As for Aisha, I red what you've said. Yet in my mind, somehow, I find it difficult that relevation came exactly month later.. Seems to me that it would be enough for any woman to have a menstrual cycle..

P.S. Explanations are more then welcome.

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 30 January 2010 at 11:07pm

Wa'laikum Salam wa rahmatullah,

2.As for a kicking a man.. would you please read this: "Another Hadith is the one narrated by Abu Umama (May Allah be pleased with him) he said: �When the Prophet (peace be upon him) passed a man sleeping on his front in the mosque he hit him with his feet and said: wake up and seat as this is a diabolic sleep�, He (pbuh) KICKED HIM WITH HIS FEET!! so I take it wasn't like a friendly kick from your friend "hey, long time no see", don't you think?

Brother, be it Qur'an or hadith, we cannot get the exact meaning and depth of the ayah until we learn arabic and understand it. One word of arabic gives different meanings and understanding, as per the context. Just recently attended a lecture and it was said - Even if you have read all the translations of Qur'an in different languages, you have n't really read and understood Qur'an untill you learn to understand arabic".

What i intend to say is, when we read the hadith in arabic and understand it,we then understand the real meaning of it.

-------------
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 31 January 2010 at 3:19am

Peace Uri,

First of all i welcome you to Islam.May GOD guide u and all of us to the truth.It is really amazing and nice to see your doubts about Islam and i applaud ur courage to question the beliefs in Islam.God has certainly chosen you to be guided.Praise be to him Alone.I perfectly understand your confusions regarding certain things and i find it not surprising at all that you stopped praying becoz of them.It is better to understand and clear things up rather than following a faith blindly.Islam like u mentioned is not a blind faith.God does not want people to have doubts and follow it blindly without reasoning .And this can be seen throughout the Quran.

[3:60] This is the truth from your Lord; do not harbor any doubts.

God asks us to not just read the Quran but "study" the Quran.Study involves critical analysis.And its perfectly alright to do so.

I see many who wrote Quran cannot be studied without Hadith and that it is not detailed. This is totally against God's repeated assertions in the Quran that it is easy to learn,perfect,complete and fully detailed.

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?* Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[54:17] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

[54:22] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

[54:32] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

[54:40] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

[7:185] Have they not looked at the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all the things GOD has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their life may be near? Which Hadith, beside this, do they believe in?

[12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.

[31:6] Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of GOD without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.

[34:53] They have rejected it in the past; they have decided instead to uphold conjecture and guesswork.*

[39:23] GOD has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways (to Heaven and Hell). The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for GOD's message. Such is GOD's guidance; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. As for those sent astray by GOD, nothing can guide them.

[39:29] GOD cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners (Hadith), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to GOD; most of them do not know.

Now as far as your question regarding the Prophet kicking a man is concerned,i have to say that this is nothing but lies attributed to the prophet.The prophet was blessed with a great moral character.

(68:4] You are blessed with a great moral character.

The above claims that the Prophet did not kick the man hardly but softly seems to be a desperate attempt to justify the blasphemous Hadith.The truth is that this is nothing but a lie.I advise you to focus on the Quran alone as sources other than the perfect Quran will confuse you.This is not my opinion but as u can see from the above verses, it is a direct commandment from your LORD.The ones who say that Quran isnt sufficient are nothing but disbelievers of the Quran.There is no middle position.You either believe that the Quran is complete and fully detailed as mentioned in the Quran or you dont.There is no ifs or buts.The ones with ifs or buts harbour doubts in their minds and dont trust their GOD.

Now with regards to your issue of Salat in a cold place like urs all i can suggest is look into the Quran.

[5:6] O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling, or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had (sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.

I would like to bring to your attention that God has to be always our number one priority.Performing the contact prayers is a very important duty.Therefore,when it comes to our salats we set aside everything else or rearrange our lives so that there is no probs in performing the salats.We have to preplan things as far as possible so that we dont miss our prayers.Im sure in your town there are restaurants or shops with washrooms and also may be public toilets that you can use to do your ablution even if you are travelling.During these times,by God's mercy finding water is not much of an issue i guess.I dont know how practical it is in cold countries but if ur travel is preplanned you may also try somehow carrying some water with you.The bottom line is that we do all possible and strive to worship GOD.And when u strive and have the intentions to do so,believe me GOD will never put you in a situation where worshipping him becomes a hassle in anyway.

Finally remember,God has made this wonderful religion easy to practice.People make it harder with their innovations and additions,God doesnot.There is no nonsense in the Quran.It is easy to study and easy to practice in our lives. Praise be to GOD the lord of the universe.

Peace.

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 31 January 2010 at 3:56am

Peace Uri,

The below is for your kind reference.

Polygamy was a way of life until the Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. When the earth was young and under-populated, polygamy was one way of populating it and bringing in the human beings needed to carry out God's plan. By the time the Quran was revealed, the world had been sufficiently populated, and the Quran put down the first limitations against polygamy.

Polygamy is permitted in the Quran, but under strictly observed circumstances. Any abuse of this divine permission incurs severe retribution. Thus, although polygamy is permitted by God, it behooves us to examine our circumstances carefully before saying that a particular polygamous relationship is permissible.

Our perfect example here is the prophet Muhammad. He was married to one wife, Khadijah, until she died. He had all his children, except one, from Khadijah. Thus, she and her children enjoyed the Prophet's full attention for as long as she was married to him; twenty-five years. For all practical purposes, Muhammad had one wife - from the age of 25 to 50. During the remaining 13 years of his life, he married the aged widows of his friends who left many children. The children needed a complete home, with a fatherly figure, and the Prophet provided that. Providing a fatherly figure for orphans is the only specific circumstance in support of polygamy mentioned in the Quran (4:3).

Other than marrying widowed mothers of orphans, there were three political marriages in the Prophet's life. His close friends Abu Bakr and Omar insisted that he marry their daughters, Aisha and Hafsah, to establish traditional family ties among them. The third marriage was to Maria the Egyptian; she was given to him as a political gesture of friendship from the ruler of Egypt.

This perfect example tells us that a man must give his full attention and loyalty in marriage to his wife and children in order to raise a happy and wholesome family.

The Quran emphasizes the limitations against polygamy in very strong words: "If you fear lest you may not be perfectly equitable in treating more than one wife, then you shall be content with one." (4:3) "You cannot be equitable in a polygamous relationship, no matter how hard you try." (4:129)

The Quranic limitations against polygamy point out the possibility of abusing God's law. Therefore, unless we are absolutely sure that God's law will not be abused, we had better resist our lust and stay away from polygamy. If the circumstances do not dictate polygamy, we had better give our full attention to one wife and one set of children. The children's psychological and social well-being, especially in countries where polygamy is prohibited, almost invariably dictate monogamy. A few basic criteria must be observed in contemplating polygamy:

1. It must alleviate pain and suffering and not cause any pain or suffering.

2. If you have a young family, it is almost certain that polygamy is an abuse.

3. Polygamy to substitute a younger wife is an abuse of God's law (4:19).

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 31 January 2010 at 10:32am

Uri S wrote:

Asslamu Alaikum

1. "But I still say you need a scholar to explain to you the whole situation." Well, would anyone by any chance know a place online where a scholar would answer me?

Wa Alaikum Asslam

اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على أله و صحبه و سلم

Dear brother, may Allah help you. I will try to find someone to help you online, Insha Allah. BUT you too keep searching. I pray the brothers and sisters here can tell you of anyone online.

2.As for a kicking a man.. would you please read this: "Another Hadith is the one narrated by Abu Umama (May Allah be pleased with him) he said: �When the Prophet (peace be upon him) passed a man sleeping on his front in the mosque he hit him with his feet and said: wake up and seat as this is a diabolic sleep�, He (pbuh) KICKED HIM WITH HIS FEET!! so I take it wasn't like a friendly kick from your friend "hey, long time no see", don't you think?

OK this hadith is TRUE, but sister Seek made me drew my attention into something very important. YEAH the word in Arabic can never be tough like how it seems in English. It is s very light movement. Just a gentle way to draw the attention of someone. Still on my point it is so fine in their society, their culture the way they loved him.

3."The rest of your questions about things from Shyatan, are all from unseen things, that you believed in just because we are believers. Part of our faith is that you MUST believe in the unseen knowledge." I see, well that's not what I was told. A brother that introduced me to islam reassured me that islam unlike christianity has reasoning in EVERYTHING and IT'S NOT A BLIND FAITH unlike christianity.. Let me quote from http://www.journeytoislam.com/Hear/Reasoning%20in%20Islam%20attracts%20me.htm - www.journeytoislam.com/Hear/Reasoning%20in%20Islam%20attracts%20me.htm "Muslims believe that Islam is a term synonymous with truth, and that under the glorious and ever-brilliant sun of Islam, by the light of reason and knowledge, truth can be obtained but in order to obtain that knowledge, and thus attain that truth, man must use his reasoning faculties.", "One of the glories of Islam is that it is founded upon reason, and that it never demands from its followers an abnegation of that important mental faculty. Unlike certain other faiths, which insist upon their votaries implicitly accepting certain dogmas without independent inquiry, but simply on the authority of "The Church", Islam courts inquiry and counsels its disciples to study, search and investigate prior to acceptation. The Holy Prophet, of ever-blessed memory, said: "Allah hath not created anything better than reason, the benefits which Allah giveth are on its account, and understanding is begotten of it.".. Well, that sure makes sence unlike of what you've said.. accepting something on faith, blindly without explanation is unacceptable to me, what if your message is wrong.. and I blindly follow you.. that just might cost me an eternity. Thanks, but no.

Yeah. there is noting in Islam that means you believe blindly. I did not say that. You know the purpose of your life, you know how you come to this life. You know what should you do to be happy. You know why are you here and where will you go after you die. You know who created this well organized world around you. Islam has the answers for all questions.

But some things we can not handle as human beings. For example, you can not see an angle with your eyes because you can not handle that. You can not see the devils. the Satan, even the Jinn. See this is what I wanted to explain to you. Some hidden knowledge that Allah wanted for it to be knowledge. We believe the Satan stays on my nose when I sleep not because I saw him, because I can never see him, but my prophet, PBUH, told me that and he was told by Allah.

4."Why did he married more than the others? I just want to add my few cents. You should read the biography of the prophet peace be upon him to know that there was a reason for marring everyone of his wives. Some political reason, some social reason,, and some other reasons." Fine, explain to me what was the reason to marry Zayd's ex-wife? And here's a passage for you to read: "I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: �Give me that girl.� (Sahih Muslim 4345)" What was a reason to ask for that girl?

About the prophet, peace be upon him, seeing the girl. Before I answer this, I want to tell you. Remember, although the prophet was a prophet who is special person but he is still a human being after all. BUT some of his enemies do like the hungry cat that is looking for small dirty pieces of meat on the floor. It still finds some. You see what I mean, DIRTY.

1- The purpose of his marriage to Zainab,RAA, the x-wife of Zayd was mentioned clearly in Quraan. The Arabic society at that time used to adopt some kids. Those kids take the names of those people as fathers and so that the daughter in law can not marry the father in law. Allah wanted to STOP this rule, So to give the clear lesson to the whole society, the prophet himself should marry Zainab the x-wife of Zayd who was adopted by him, peace be upon him.

The story is that the prophet peace be upon him wanted something from Zayd so he went to Zayd's house. They used to have curtains not doors at that time. The wind moved the curtains, but he, peace be upon him, never did that with his hand. So he saw the girl. He kind of liked her but her did not say a word to anyone. After that Zayd complained to the prophet that he had some problems with his wife but the prophet said. NO stay with your wife and fear Allah.

This aya was one of the proofs that the prophet peace be upon him did not lie in a word. He could hide this aya but he never lied to his people and never hide any truth or aya from them. If he was not honest he could hide this one BUT He told them the whole truth even this aya, Subhanallah.

5.As for Aisha, I red what you've said. Yet in my mind, somehow, I find it difficult that relevation came exactly month later.. Seems to me that it would be enough for any woman to have a menstrual cycle..

I do not understand your question here? Please explain more.

P.S. Explanations are more then welcome.

Dear brother as for you stopping praying. I do not agree. Because this prayer is the way that Allah protects you from Satan, devils and any kind of harm. If you leave your weapon then you are not covered and the Shyatn will add more to your doubts and be easier for him to mislead you. You need to be back praying and making so much duaa even if you have those doubts,, Allah will help you more to answer them and by the time they will stop and Shyatn will give up and leave you. I can see you are a good Muslim in the right place, and that is why Satan is working hard with you. HOW can you defeat him without praying?

I have this nice story for you:

A teacher wanted to explain to his student how the Satan do with us. So he said: my dear, imagine you saw a very beautiful garden, but when you wanted to inter, there was a big dog. He wanted to stop you from entering, what do you do?
He said I throw a stone at him. He said but he will be back. He said I throw another stone. He said but he will be back again and again and again. So the student was confused and was quiet looking at the teacher.
The teacher said: so easy. call for his owner and tell him to stop the dog from bothering you.
So your prayer is your calls for Allah the owner, to stop those doubts and feeling in your heart about Islam.

May Allah YA HAY YA GAIOOM, Guides you and me into the TRUTH and the way of the winners and keep us away from the HELL FIRE.

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 31 January 2010 at 10:58am

haris30432 wrote:

Peace Uri,

[3:60] This is the truth from your Lord; do not harbor any doubts.

God asks us to not just read the Quran but "study" the Quran.Study involves critical analysis.And its perfectly alright to do so.

I see many who wrote Quran cannot be studied without Hadith

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و علىى آله و صحبه و سلم

This is the truth, Sunna and Hadith are the second source of Islam. As they are the words of the prophet, peace be upon him, who never says false and who is all of his words are inspiration form Allah, the Greatest.
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - 53.1 file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - - 53.2 file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - - 53.3 file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - - - 53.4 - - This is not against is the hadith adds more to Quraan. And studying Hadith with Quraan is not against that Quraan is easy to study. BUT if CAN NEVER ignore Sunnah/Hadith and stick to Quraan then be a Muslim. file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - The Messenger clarified this through his own prayers and by teaching the Muslims how to pray. He said: �Pray as you have seen me praying.�

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - he Sunnah, though, makes all this clear.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - God knows best with whom to place His Message�� (Quran 6:124)

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - protected his tongue from uttering anything but the truth. Allah has protected his limbs from doing anything but what is right.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - His own interests never swayed him from speaking the truth. The only goal that he sought was the pleasure of Allah Almighty.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - �Write, for by Him in Whose hand is my soul, only truth comes forth from this.� �and pointed to his mouth.

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - obey God and obey His Messenger and those in authority among you. If you fall into dispute about a matter, refer it back to God and His Messenger if you believe in God and the Last Day�� (Quran 4:59)

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - - may Allah guide us into the truth. And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 31 January 2010 at 11:14am

haris30432 wrote:

Peace Uri,

The below is for your kind reference.

This perfect example tells us that a man must give his full attention and loyalty in marriage to his wife and children in order to raise a happy and wholesome family.

1. It must alleviate pain and suffering and not cause any pain or suffering.

2. If you have a young family, it is almost certain that polygamy is an abuse.

3. Polygamy to substitute a younger wife is an abuse of God's law (4:19).

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

Subhanallah, Thanks for this article. Interesting mashallah.

Just want to ask you: Is this Quraan or you got if from a book:

Polygamy to substitute a younger wife is an abuse of God's law (4:19).
Why does it have Quraan numbers? or do you mean this?
file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - 4.19 file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - Nor - given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - contrary file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - it may file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml - of good. -

file:///C:%5CUsers%5CSahumah%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 31 January 2010 at 11:28pm

Peace,

I apologize if im ignoring the original questioner of the discussion in this post.However, i wish to clear something with the sisters and brothers in this forum.First and foremost, i would like to start by saying that im not against Hadith and Sunnah.Its just that my H&S are a little different than yours. My Hadith is the Quran and my Sunnah is Allah's Sunnah(what he teaches us i mean). In the above post one sister has put out some interesting points in support of her understanding that Quran without the Hadith is incomplete.The salat is not detailed.The Zakat is not detailed.The Hajj is not detailed etc etc.Indirectly, they tell you that the Quran is incomplete. God is either bluffing or when God says its complete there is a hidden meaning which only a scholar can decode.

[6:38] All the creatures on earth, and all the birds that fly with wings, are communities like you. We did not leave anything out of this book.** To their Lord, all these creatures will be summoned.

[30:58] Thus, we have cited for the people in this Quran all kinds of examples. Yet, no matter what kind of proof you present to the disbelievers, they say, "You are falsifiers."

The above statement is totally against the Quran.Please examine the below verse.

Prophet Muhammed only taught and lived according to the Quran and nothing else.The claim that Muhammad was infalliable and that all he did and said was an inspiration is wrong.This elevates him from being a normal human being to a Super man.The verses below prove that Muhammed indeed was nothing more than a normal human being who received the scripture and was blessed with prophethood just like all others before him.

[3:144] Muhammad was no more than a messenger like the messengers before him. Should he die or get killed, would you turn back on your heels? Anyone who turns back on his heels, does not hurt GOD in the least. GOD rewards those who are appreciative.

[18:110] Say, "I am no more than a human like you, being inspired that your god is one god. Those who hope to meet their Lord shall work righteousness, and never worship any other god beside his Lord."

[7:188] Say, "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what GOD wills happens to me. If I knew the future, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe."

MUHAMMAD WAS NOT INFALLIABLE.

The below verse clearly points out that Muhammad was not infalliable.

[66:1] O you prophet, why do you prohibit what GOD has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.*

*66:1 Mohammedans around the world believe that Muhammad was infallible. This verse teaches us that he was indeed a fallible human being (18:110, 33:37, 40:66, 80:1).

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 12:20am

All that is claimed as Sunnah and Hadith of the prophet are mere hearsays recorded nearly 200 years after the prophet and not by the prophet himself.The Quran came out of his mouth and therefore that is the real hadith but the disbelievers cannot understand it.The ones who follow the hadith and Sunnah themselves admit that many of the hadiths are false.Yet,they choose to follow an inconsistant source when God commands them to follow the only consistant source ie the Quran.

Now if we are true believers,we should be thinking that if GOD says his Quran is complete,perfect and fully detailed and that he did not leave anything out of it,it should be the truth.There should be no doubts.One would then ask where are the details of the salat?.Why did not GOD explain the details of such an important form of worship?.The answer is within the Quran.We learn from the Quran that all practices of islam came through Ibrahim and not Muhammed.Muhammed was asked to follow ibrahim's religion.The Salat,the Zakat,Hajj etc was taught to ibrahim by GOD and Muhammad just followed those practices.

[2:124] Recall that Abraham was put to the test by his Lord, through certain commands, and he fulfilled them. (God) said, "I am appointing you an IMAM for the people." He said, "And also my descendants?" He said, "My covenant does not include the transgressors."

Abraham:

Delivered All

Religious Duties of Islam

[21:73] We made them IMAMS who guided in accordance with our commandments, and we taught them how to work righteousness, and how to observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and the obligatory charity (Zakat).* To us, they were devoted worshipers.

[2:125] We have rendered the shrine (the Ka'aba) a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Abraham's shrine as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail: "You shall purify My house for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."

[2:127] As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed): "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.

[2:130] Who would forsake the religion of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.

[2:132] Moreover, Abraham exhorted his children to do the same, and so did Jacob: "O my children, GOD has pointed out the religion for you; do not die except as submitters(Muslims)."

[2:135] They said, "You have to be Jewish or Christian, to be guided." Say, "We follow the religion of Abraham―monotheism―he never was an idol worshiper."

[3:68] The people most worthy of Abraham are those who followed him, and this prophet, and those who believe. GOD is the Lord and Master of the believers.

Muhammad:

A Follower of Abraham*

[16:123] Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.

*2:135 The Quran repeatedly informs us that Submission is the religion of Abraham (3:95, 4:125, 6:161, 22:78). Abraham received a practical "scripture," namely, all the duties and practices of Submission [the Contact Prayers (Salat), the obligatory charity (Zakat), the fasting of Ramadan, and the Hajj pilgrimage]. Muhammad was a follower of Abraham's religion, as we see in 16:123; he delivered this Final Testament, the Quran.

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 12:32am

Proofs in the Quran that Salat and Zakat existed before Muhammad

The Contact Prayers (Salat)

Existed Before the Quran*

[8:35] Their Contact Prayers (Salat) at the shrine (Ka'bah) were no more than a mockery and a means of repelling the people (by crowding them out). Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief.

*8:35 All religious practices in Islam came to us through Abraham; when the Quran was revealed, all rites in "Submission" were already in existence (21:73, 22:78).

FASTING EMPHASIZED

[2:183] O you who believe, fasting is decreed for you, as it was decreed for those before you, that you may attain salvation.

OBLIGATORY CHARITY EXISTED BEFORE MUHAMMAD

[9:54] What prevented the acceptance of their spending is that they disbelieved in GOD and His messenger, and when they observed the Contact Prayers (Salat),* they observed them lazily, and when they gave to charity, they did so grudgingly.

HAJJ EXISTED BEFORE MUHAMMAD

[22:26] We appointed Abraham to establish the Shrine: "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My shrine for those who visit it, those who live near it, and those who bow and prostrate.

[22:27] "And proclaim that the people shall observe Hajj pilgrimage.* They will come to you walking or riding on various exhausted (means of transportation). They will come from the farthest locations."

[22:28] They may seek commercial benefits, and they shall commemorate GOD's name during the specified days for providing them with livestock. "Eat therefrom and feed the despondent and the poor."

[22:29] They shall complete their obligations, fulfill their vows, and visit the ancient shrine.

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 1:08am

The above explains why the Quran does not explain the details of the practices of Islam.Hadith records can only be used as a source to know history.They are no good than any other history textbooks which we may be used to understand some thing that existed in the past.

God did not specify certain things in the Quran becoz they were already existing during the revelation of the Quran.It wouldnt make sense to explain something to the people which they were already doing.God through the Quran pointed out the corruptions that crept into the religion of ibrahim and warned people against persisting in such corrupted practices.

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 3:04am

haris30432 wrote:

The above explains why the Quran does not explain the details of the practices of Islam.~~Hadith records can only be used as a source to know history.They are no good than any other history textbooks~~ which we may be used to understand some thing that existed in the past.

This is false. I am not here to argue. I told you the truth and I pray it is clear for everyone here. Sunnah is half of our faith. It is not a hsitory book but it is the second source of Islam. I mentioned above the true obvious relation bewteen Quraan and Sunnah for the people who really seek the truth.

God did not specify certain things in the Quran becoz they were already existing during the revelation of the Quran.It wouldnt make sense to explain something to the people which they were already doing.Prove this? So NO need even to tell people to pray, you said they aleardy know. I am sorry to say NONSENSE. God through the Quran pointed out the corruptions that crept into the religion of ibrahim and warned people against persisting in such corrupted practices.

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 3:09am

haris30432 wrote:

All that is claimed as Sunnah and Hadith of the prophet are mere hearsays recorded nearly 200 years after the prophet and not by the prophet himself.The Quran came out of his mouth and therefore that is the real hadith but the disbelievers cannot understand it.The ones who follow the hadith and Sunnah themselves admit that many of the hadiths are false.Yet,they choose to follow an inconsistant source when ~~God commands them to follow the only consistant source ie the Quran.~~

I replied to this above and said Allah orders us to take everything from the prophet peace peave be upon him, which is Hadith also. The whole Ummah agreed on Hadith in those days of pure and perfect Muslims and no one said let us just leave Hadith cuase some lied in it.

The Muslim scholars worked so hard on this and spent thier lives to make sure of the hadithes. They left for us STRONG SAHEEH HADITHS, and warn us of the lies.

I konw those people whp deny the importance of hadith and I am not here to fight. I tell the truth and then Allah will ask you about this.

Abraham:

Delivered All

Religious Duties of Islam

[2:127] As Abraham raised the foundations of the shrine, together with Ismail (they prayed): "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.

[2:130] Who would forsake the religion of Abraham, except one who fools his own soul? We have chosen him in this world, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous.

[2:132] Moreover, Abraham exhorted his children to do the same, and so did Jacob: "O my children, GOD has pointed out the religion for you; do not die except as submitters(Muslims)."

[2:135] They said, "You have to be Jewish or Christian, to be guided." Say, "We follow the religion of Abraham―monotheism―he never was an idol worshiper."

[3:68] The people most worthy of Abraham are those who followed him, and this prophet, and those who believe. GOD is the Lord and Master of the believers.

Muhammad:

A Follower of Abraham*

[16:123] Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 3:41am

haris30432 wrote:

Peace,

BUT you can never never follow the Sunnah of Allah when you leave the Sunnah of his dearest prophet, peace be upon him, HOW COME?

To be a Muslim you MUST take the prophet's peace be upon him Sunna beside the Quraan. It is clear in Islam that you need to believe in Muhammed peace be upon him and take his Sunna beside believing in Allah and Quraan.

In the above post one sister has put out some interesting points in support of her understanding that ~~Quran without the Hadith is incomplete~~. I never said that. I KNOW: Quraan is COMPLETE. My point was you can not be a Muslim when you just stick to Quraan and leave the Sunnah behind your back.

~~The salat is not detailed.The Zakat is not detailed.The Hajj is not detailed etc etc.Indirectly, they tell you that the Quran is incomplete.~~ Check the article again.

God is either bluffing or when God says its complete there is a hidden meaning which only a scholar can decode.

[30:58] Thus, we have cited for the people in this Quran all kinds of examples. Yet, no matter what kind of proof you present to the disbelievers, they say, "You are falsifiers."

The above statement is totally against the Quran.Please examine the below verse.

Subahallah, how the person who typed this is kind of misgudied and wants to misgudie others. Please go back to the puropse of this aya being revleaved read it will and read the whole story. Undersatnd the meaning that ALlah wanted to say and then come here share.

Prophet Muhammed only taught and lived according to the Quran and nothing else.TRUE!!

The claim that Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم was infalliable and that all he did and said was an ~~inspiration is wrong.~~

Qura'an relpies to you.

53.1 By the Star when it goes down,-

53.2 Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.

53.3 Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.

53.4 It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:

This elevates him from being a normal human being to a Super man.The verses below prove that Muhammedصلى الله عليه و سلم indeed was ~~nothing~~ more than a nor mal human being who received the scripture and was blessed with prophethood just like all others before him.

We did not say he was a upernationla but he is a special person for many reasons and even special prophet, peace be upon him. Read more and know mroe then come here share.

MUHAMMAD صلى الله عليه و سلم WAS NOT INFALLIABLE.

The below verse clearly points out that Muhammad was not infalliable.

[66:1] O you prophet, why do you prohibit what GOD has made lawful for you, just to please your wives? GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.*

*66:1 Mohammedans around the world believe that Muhammad was infallible. This verse teaches us that he was indeed a fallible human being (18:110, 33:37, 40:66, 80:1

Note: I think you alwyas forget to say: peace be upon him after the name of my lovely dearest man, prophet Muhammad peace be upon him,my soul and my parents souls are sacrificed for him. Is it alsoQuraan that says this?

صلى الله عليه و سلم

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 3:48am

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

اللهم صلي الله عليه وعلى آله و صحبه سلم

K I told the whole truth and I am here just for brother Uri S. I am really busy and I gave my time just for him. Just cause he is a dear brother. May Allah relieves his pain and supports him. May Allah guides me and him.

SO please DO NOT WASTE MY TIME brother Haris. I really like your polite and kind way but you want to reject the truth, you reject the prphet's Sunna and want to say the sunna is just Quraan. I told you the truth and did my job. I will try not to add more cause I told you the truth and enough. I hate to debate. May Allah guide me and you.

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 5:24am

Peace,

I have clearly stated everything in my post with references from the Quran which you seem to have deliberately ignored.You have replied to a few picked and chosen sentences from my post and ignored most of the most important ones which i assume u have no answer to.May be thats how you reply.May be i too can try the same Inshallah.So here goes.

Prophet Muhammed only taught and lived according to the Quran and nothing else.TRUE!!

Well then why dont u just follow Quran Alone?

Im very sorry i do not wish to disobey my lord by going to any other sources other than the Quran if thats what u mean.Im content with the Quran which was revealed to prophet Muhammad.I dont need a thousand volumes of other books written 200 years after the prophet by somebody from uzbekistan to figure out what God means by the verse.The Quran has been made easy to study for anyone.Alhamdulillah!.If following the Quran alone is misguidance, im happy to be misguided or being called misguided.All followers of truth were called the same by the jews during Jesus's time and the Arabs during Muhammad's time.Your name calling is just history repeating itself for me

53.4 It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:

Yes,but the "IT" in the verse is not anything and everything that came of out of the prophet's mouth.The "IT" in the verse means the Quran.The Quran which he delivered to the people.And his mission was only to deliver the Quran.

[5:99] The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message, and GOD knows everything you declare and everything you conceal.

[6:48] We do not send the messengers except as deliverers of good news, as well as warners. Those who believe and reform have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

We did not say he was a upernationla but he is a special person for many reasons and even special prophet, peace be upon him. Read more and know mroe then come here share.

You seem to have totally ignored the verse i posted or may be you did not understand the very clear verse.Anyways, ill repost it.Please read carefully and understand inshallah.

[3:144] Muhammad was no more than a messenger LIKE the messengers before him. Should he die or get killed, would you turn back on your heels? Anyone who turns back on his heels, does not hurt GOD in the least. GOD rewards those who are appreciative.

Even though the above verse is very clear you seem to be idolizing the prophet by giving him a special position compared to other prophets which the Almighty did not give.I challenge you to show me a verse from the Quran which clearly tells that prophet Muhammed has a special position than other prophets. Please read the Quran before you type such horrendous statements. PLUS you are making a distinction amoung the messengers of GOD by making such a statement.This is a clear violation of direct and repeated commandments by GOD in the Quran.

2:136] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

[2:285] The messenger has believed in what was sent down to him from his Lord, and so did the believers. They believe in GOD, His angels, His scripture, and His messengers: "We make no distinction among any of His messengers." They say, "We hear, and we obey.* Forgive us, our Lord. To You is the ultimate destiny.

[3:84] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

[4:152] As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and make no distinction among them, He will grant them their recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[27:59] Say, "Praise be to GOD and peace be upon His servants whom He chose. Is GOD better, or the idols some people set up?"

Peace!

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 5:31am

Peace,

[16:125] You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.

Inspite of the above verse,u seem to be very reluctant to learn and debate thats not a good sign sister.The truth should not disturb you ,it should make u happy and enlighten you.By refusing to debate you are again disobeying God.Anyways,if you would like to stop, i do not wish to force you to anything.Im commanded not use complusion in matters of religion.

Peace!

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 1:26pm

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم
Show your religion Islam beside your name dear brother Haris?
Quraan tells us to be proud of our Islam and show it clear.
Visit these links please, if you seek the truth

1- forum_posts.asp?TID=15502 - Why is prophet Muhammed peace be upon him special?

2- forum_posts.asp?TID=6582 - the Life of Prophet Muhammad (saw)

3- forum_posts.asp?TID=16281 - If we are talking about him what would we say?

4- forum_posts.asp?TID=16256 - Prophet Muhammad {Pbuh} - Protector of life

5- forum_posts.asp?TID=15312 - How much do you love the prophet SAAW?

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 1:37pm

Asslamu Alaikum Wa Rahmau Allah
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على أله و صحبه و سلم

I pray that you are fine and increasing in Imaan and in stonrg faith brother Uri S. I pray Ya Allah Ya Haya Ya Gaioom, helps you and protects you.

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 9:42pm

haris30432,

Please start a thread in intrafaith section, where you possibly may discuss your subject. Please comply with the forum_posts.asp?TID=4589 - Guidelines .

Your last post would be moved to that section (thread: post of haris30432):

forum_posts.asp?TID=16297 - Post of Haris30432

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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 01 February 2010 at 9:46pm

Sure..my apologies. i will comply with the guidelines Inshallah.

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 8:19am

Peace

I want to thank Haris30432, his posts are great!! I do not understand why people are not willing to continue discussion with him, seems like they just can't retort him.

1. As for a kicking a man.. would you please read this: "Another Hadith is the one narrated by Abu Umama (May Allah be pleased with him) he said: “When the Prophet (peace be upon him) passed a man sleeping on his front in the mosque he hit him with his feet and said: wake up and seat as this is a diabolic sleep”, He (pbuh) KICKED HIM WITH HIS FEET!! so I take it wasn't like a friendly kick from your friend "hey, long time no see", don't you think? OK this hadith is TRUE, but sister Seek made me drew my attention into something very important. YEAH the word in Arabic can never be tough like how it seems in English. It is s very light movement. Just a gentle way to draw the attention of someone. Still on my point it is so fine in their society, their culture the way they loved him.
Ok, judging from your words.. I have yet to find a society where a kicking someone with his feet would be like saying "hi" in western society or are you trying to say that's how things are in arabic society? And if "the word in Arabic can never be tough like how it seems in English" seems like I could never be sure about the meaning of the Quran since I am not planning to learn arabic.

2."I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: “Give me that girl.” (Sahih Muslim 4345)" What was a reason to ask for that girl? About the prophet, peace be upon him, seeing the girl. Before I answer this, I want to tell you. Remember, although the prophet was a prophet who is special person but he is still a human being after all. BUT some of his enemies do like the hungry cat that is looking for small dirty pieces of meat on the floor. It still finds some. You see what I mean, DIRTY.
Well, isn't it a TRUE HADITH? How can you call it a dirt? Are you trying to say he was hungry for young girls and.. only cause he was human? Well no reason to put pbuh I guess.. he was only a human. When I'll be writing about him as of a prophet I'll still put it. You didn't answer my question straight forward, please do so for the future.

3. The purpose of his marriage to Zainab,RAA, the x-wife of Zayd was mentioned clearly in Quraan. The Arabic society at that time used to adopt some kids. Those kids take the names of those people as fathers and so that the daughter in law can not marry the father in law. Allah wanted to STOP this rule, So to give the clear lesson to the whole society, the prophet himself should marry Zainab the x-wife of Zayd who was adopted by him, peace be upon him. The story is that the prophet peace be upon him wanted something from Zayd so he went to Zayd's house. They used to have curtains not doors at that time. The wind moved the curtains, but he, peace be upon him, never did that with his hand. So he saw the girl. He kind of liked her but her did not say a word to anyone. After that Zayd complained to the prophet that he had some problems with his wife but the prophet said. NO stay with your wife and fear Allah.
The WIND MOVED a curtain? How convenient. He KINDA LIKED her? Don't make me laugh. The story that I red is kinda different. Here: "Our prophet had a beautiful daughter in law Zainab, wife of his adopted son known as Zaid Bin Mohammed. One morning he WALKED INTO HER ROOM looking for his son and ran into her while she was just waking up and WAS WEARING REVEALING CLOTHING. HE LIKED WHAT HE SAW. To make a long story short , she was in his bed within a few days". The rest is here: http://http://www.islamreview.com/articles/Divinely_Ordained_in_Islam.shtml - http://www.islamreview.com/articles/Divinely_Ordained_in_Islam.shtml

4. As for Aisha. Here's what I think. Muhammad could have waited a month, saw that she hed her period and then had a revelation that she didn't "cheat". Yes, no?

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 9:15am

Full of Hopes wrote:

�Asslamu Alaikum Wa Rahmau Allah�بسم الله الرحمن الرحيماللهم صلي على نبينا محمد و على أله و صحبه و سلم�I pray that you are fine and increasing in Imaan and in stonrg faith brother Uri S. I pray Ya Allah Ya Haya Ya Gaioom, helps you and protects you.

Ameen

And sis, ignore him anywhere at the forum.

Haris, you did not answer a question of Sis {Full of Hopes}. Why did you not update your profile as being a MUSLIM ?

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 9:21am

As Salamu Alaikum

Uri, we are n't continuing the discussion here, as the guidelines of the discussions state that we are to discuss in relevant sections and shud not move away from the topic.

It was my personal suggestion to sis Full of Hopes, who is one of my good friends here, to ignore him. We encourage healthy discussions in the light of QURAN AND SUNNAH, {as well}. Any of the aspect ignored does n't complete our faith.

Anyways, for you here's a link. Kindly read this

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/books/15 - http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/books/15

I wish you read it fully, as it may help you increase your knowledge.

Read this particular part related to our discussion :

Ya�eesh ibn Tihfah al-Ghiffaari reported that his father said: �I was a guest of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), one of the poor to whom he played host. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came out to check on his guests during the night, and saw me lying on my stomach. He kicked me and said, �Don�t lie like this; this is the kind of lying that Allaah hates.�� According to another report: �He kicked him and woke him up, and said, �This is how the people of Hell lie.�� (Reported by Ahmad, al-Fath al-Rabbaani, 14/244-245. Also reported by al-Tirmidhi, no. 2798, Shaakir edn.; by Abu Dawood in Kitaab al-Adab in his Sunan, no. 5040, al-Da��aas edn. The hadeeth is also in Saheeh al-Jaami�, 2270-2271).

This method of rebuking was appropriate for the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) because of his position and status, but it is not appropriate for ordinary people. It is not alright for any person who wants to rebuke another for sleeping on his stomach to kick him whilst he is asleep and wake him up, and then expect him to accept this advice and thank him for it. The same applies to hitting a person who is making a mistake or throwing something like pebbles or whatever at him. Although some of the salaf did that, it was because of their particular status. Some stories of this nature follow:

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 9:46am

Reg Prophet's marriage to Zaynab RA.

Uri, i hope you are a sincere seeker. My advise to you would be stay away from such sites - http://http//www.islamreview.com/articles/Divinely_Ordained_in_Islam.shtml - http://http//www.islamreview.com/articles/Divinely_Ordained_in_Islam.shtml

Kindly look for good sites which give you authentic knowledge. Not these kind of rubbish.

Full of Hopes did answer you. Here i would like to add a little from the site Islam-qa: Kindly read it with attention

Zaynab bint Jahsh (may Allaah be pleased with her) :

Concerning her Allaah revealed the words (interpretation of the meaning):

�So when Zayd had accomplished his desire from her (i.e. divorced her), We gave her to you in marriage, so that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the believers in respect of (the marriage of) the wives of their adopted sons when the latter have no desire to keep them (i.e. they have divorced them)�

[al-Ahzaab 33:37]

She used to boast about this to the other wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), saying: �Your families arranged your marriages but Allaah arranged my marriage from above the seven heavens.� Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 7420.

So that was the sharing. Let me make you clear, prophet SAWS, simply obeyed the commands of Allah swt. There was nothing rubbish like prophet's desire to marry and stuff, shared in your post, from that site.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 9:57am

4. As for Aisha. Here's what I think. Muhammad could have waited a month, saw that she hed her period and then had a revelation that she didn't "cheat". Yes, no

I wish you be modest in your thoughts, Uri. Anyways, it was made clear to you that the revelations were not immediately sent, {Allah swt knows the best}, but the wisdom behind it which makes me write to you, is that it was trial and test from Allah swt , hypocites were exposed, --. Even today that incident holds many lessons for us. Now, coming to your point, i can say that - REVELATIONS from the skies were the best answer to these people who spread out rumours, or hold doubt over this noble women in Islam

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 02 February 2010 at 11:22am

May Allah guide you brother Uri S.. I am so upset to see your reply. I want to cry but at the END.. Allah is the ONLY one who can open your heart to the TRUTH and guide you.. I am just a very very very small human being who knows nothing... I am nothing.. I just saw that not many replied and wanted to help.

GO BACK TO THE BASE OF YOUR ISLAM..

Ask yourself: Why are you a Muslim?
Why did you choose Islam? What is the base of Islam?

Just want to say the word dirty was not for the hadith, it was for the way some people pick some events and deal with them in a dirty way.

anyway, Allah knows my intention. I told you I am not a scholar, but I pray that I answered what I could answer from your questions.

May Allah be pleased... Stay strong and seek the truth.

NOTE: I added a post on the basics of Islam forum and pray you can read it:

forum_posts.asp?TID=16302 - To reject the Hadith is to reject the Quran

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And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 03 February 2010 at 3:22pm

Peace

Yes, I am a sincere seeker, and I think I should give guys from http://www.islamreview.com - http://www.islamreviw.com or as a matter of a fact any other webpage as much of a chance as I am giving this board. And see how it works out. Just because some of you think they are bad for me to read and cannot explain some things that they expose and ARE NEW to me, will not take it off my list. I will review even more of that stuff and I will ask questions here and see how many of my fellow muslims came even close of asking the same questions or knew what they believe in. I don't doubt that many of new muslims have same questions that I do, except they never asked. And please, no answers out of pity. I want straightforward right to the subject answers. Thanks.

1. How great, being able to hit people and have �m thank you for that. No, I can't accept that. A person of any status should know it's wrong. And a pearson of a great morality would too. Did you get a hint? Also,the follow up stories you never posted.

2. In previous post, I was told that sister had answered my question. Let me get back to it once more. Here's what I asked: ""I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) met me in the street and said: “Give me that girl.” (Sahih Muslim 4345)" What was a reason to ask for that girl?" And what I was answered: "About the prophet, peace be upon him, seeing the girl. Before I answer this, I want to tell you. Remember, although the prophet was a prophet who is special person but he is still a human being after all. BUT some of his enemies do like the hungry cat that is looking for small dirty pieces of meat on the floor. It still finds some. You see what I mean, DIRTY." So, where exactly is my answer? I mean was he told by Allah to go and ask for her? Or was it cause of his own agenda?

3. I find it really disturbing that a prophet Muhhamad was able to do things that were not allowed to other followers. Also, have you noticed a difference between prophet Isa and prophet Muhhamad? I have. And then if Quran is message for umma.. how come it mentions Muhammad so many times? Honestly, I wish I could see a good sample to follow.. but lots of stuff just gets in a way of that.

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 04 February 2010 at 9:05am

Peace,

You are very welcome brother Uri.I knew from the very first instance when i read your post that you are a sincere seeker of the truth Mashallah.God has given us senses to use.We need to put them in good use and when u do that GOD will guide you and help you get all your answers from his glorious Quran.The sincere ones are only those who will be permitted to understand the Quran.The ones who wish to follow their leaders blindly will have a lot to answer.

Anyways coming back to the original topic,again i would like to assert that such Hadiths are nothing but blasphemous attacks on the final Prophet.i cant believe that the ones who claim to love him so much are defending such hadiths.These Hadiths show the Prophet as aggressive and being a predator.This is nothing but a horrendous crime.The Prophet was blessed with a great moral character.Only the rejectors of the Quran would ignore the Quranic verse and try to defend such Hadiths.

"3. I find it really disturbing that a prophet Muhhamad was able to do things that were not allowed to other followers. Also, have you noticed a difference between prophet Isa and prophet Muhhamad? I have. And then if Quran is message for umma.. how come it mentions Muhammad so many times? Honestly, I wish I could see a good sample to follow.. but lots of stuff just gets in a way of that."

Brother Uri,if u ask who can be ur best example,many would say Prophet Muhammad(Which is right).The Quran also mentions Prophet Ibrahim as an example to follow.However,since both these Prophets are not amoung us now,we follow what was left behind and the Prophet only left behind the Quran and nothing but the Quran.One of the proofs to that would be the below verse in the Quran.The verse only mentions the Quran and not the messenger's Sunnah or Hadith.When you follow the Quran alone,there will be nothing that gets in your way to find the truth Inshallah.If u have any questions you can PM me and inshallah i will be more than happy to help you.

25:30] The messenger* said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

Seeks Hidayath and Full of hopes:

You are free to ignore me.i have no problems but please do not ignore such Quranic verses.Putting a word"Islam or Muslim" beside your name wouldnt make much sense then.

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 04 February 2010 at 6:10pm

haris30432 wrote:

One of the proofs to that would be the below verse in the Quran.The verse only mentions the Quran and not the messenger's Sunnah or Hadith.When you follow the Quran alone,there will be nothing that gets in your way to find the truth Inshallah.If u have any questions you can PM me and inshallah i will be more than happy to help you.

25:30] The messenger* said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

haris30432,

Once again, I tell you that please don't bring such matters anywhere in the forum except intrafaith section.

I have a question for you. You say that the Qur'an alone should be followed (not the messenger's sunnah or ahadith). But, the Qur'an dictates us to follow Allah and His Messenger:

"Believe in Allah and His apostle, and spend (in charity) out of the (substance) whereof He has made you heirs. For, those of you who believe and spend (in charity),- for them is a great Reward."

Qur'an 57:7

Please reply in the thread created for you in the intrafaith section forum_posts.asp?TID=16297 - Post of Haris30432

Uri S,

It is better to take one step at a time. Start with the Qur'an, and then ahadith. Your knowledge about Islam will grow gradually. And yes, come back here, ask questions one by one. When one question has been addressed to the conclusion, then ask another question. That way, all your questions would possibly be addressed. Nobody is a scholar here, but we would try our best to answer your questions.

So, have you read the Qur'an with translation, brother? If not, please let me know the language in which you may understand it the best way, and I may look for the Qur'an translation in that language.

May Allah guide us all.

Peace

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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 06 February 2010 at 12:17am

@Peace maker, i certainly will try my best to comply with the guidelines Inshallah.My deviation from the topic was not intentional( it was God's will)

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 1:37pm

peacemaker wrote:

Uri S,

�

It is better to take one step at a time. Start with the Qur'an, and then ahadith. Your knowledge about Islam will grow gradually. And yes, come back here, ask�questions one by one.�When�one�question has been addressed to the conclusion, then ask another question. That way, all your questions would possibly�be addressed. Nobody is a scholar here, but we would try our best to answer your questions.

�

So, have you read the Qur'an with�translation, brother? If not, please let me know�the�language in which you may understand it the best way, and I may look for the Qur'an translation in that language.

�

May Allah guide us all.

�

Peace

Peace

Sorry I wasn't answering, well if you say that I should ask one thing at the time.. let's do that. You've asked if I've red quran, yes I'm reading it.. in english and russian. Anyway, here's the question. I see you all getting at haris30432 cause seems like he's abolishing hadith and that's not right according to you. Well, who's to say that you are right? I mean wasn't quran revealed so that faith could be easy to everyone? And yet, you still say that to explain a lot of things from it you need a scholar.. My understanding, every person is different and every person will emphasize their views.. Shouldn't we be guided by quran only since it's the law of God instead of being guided by a person? Look at talibs, they also interpret islam, but their way, and they do believe that their islam is true one.. and muslims end up killing muslims.. Don't forget about other schools of islam - salafi, wahhabi, shia.. I had no idea there were so many of them. So, why do we need scholars, all they will bring is their view on islam and who's to say if it's a correct one? And which school of islam is.. true path?

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 7:04pm

You can read the thread at Intrafaith section wherein there's a discussion with haris. We are not judging him. Allah swt commands us in the Qur'an to obey Prophet. Haris, is n't proving us, as how he obeys Prophet. By the way, how can you say that we are not right ? Is n't that you are judging us. Kindly note that on mere opinions and desires of oneself, we shud n't judge anyone. We members who opposed Haris stand, viewed him thru Qur'an and sunnah. If you want us to prove wrong, i wish you too use the same criteria, i.e prove us wrong from Qu'ran and hadith.

About which path to follow. We muslims don't encourage divisions and confuse people. Islam is simple. We have Qur'an before you, we have an Ideal before us of whom Allah swt commanded us to take him as our Ideal in our lives - i.e our Prophet Muhammad. Answer is simple, follow Qur'an and cling to sunnah {sayings and practices of Prophet}. Don't bother if you are salalfi/sunni or stuff. Pray Allah swt , who is our Creator, to guide us to a path He has shown us.

Now, your next question ?

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 1:08am

seekshidayath wrote:

You can read the thread at Intrafaith section wherein there's a� discussion with haris. We are not judging him.�Allah swt commands us in the Qur'an to obey Prophet. Haris, is n't proving us, as how he obeys Prophet. By the way, how can you say that we are not right ? Is n't that you are judging us. Kindly note that on mere opinions and desires of oneself, we shud n't judge anyone. We members who opposed Haris stand, viewed him thru Qur'an and sunnah. If you want us to prove wrong, i wish you too use the same criteria, i.e prove us wrong from Qu'ran and hadith.

You are amazing me.. where did you see me saying that you are wrong or judging you? All I said is: "who's to say that you are right?" I was merely asking on what bases you believe that your way is the only way.. I am not trying to prove you wrong, don't you get it? I am not here to do so. I'm here only to get answers to my questions.

To answer you in simple terms as why we need a scholar - Scholars are learnt persons. They do possess more knowledge, than us. They spent there times, energies and talents totally, to study Islam. What brother stated is we are n't scholars. We don't possess perfect knowledge as scholars do. Don't we move on to more learnt person to gain more knowledge generally?

Christians have theologians.. we have scholars.. same path. Isn't all the knowledge in quran? And don't we have the same quran? Or do they have a different one? Or their quran explains some things better then mine? Don't think so. So, it will be no more but their views on islam, their interpretations.. why would I need someone to guide me if I have quran where everything is stated clearly..??

There it is. Hidden message. "And cling to sunnah". Isn't that a way to say "sunni islam is a right path"?

Now, your next question ?

Sorry, we are still on this one.

P.S. People keep repeating islam is simple.. yet it seems like so many people try to make it more compicated then it really is. At least to me.

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 3:18am

Uri S wrote:

seekshidayath wrote:

Whatever, we will stop that discussion now.

Uri, its not compulsory that you seek a scholar. Okay !! What we meant to say that we don't possess so much of knowledge like that of a scholar. That was the humbleness of Br.Peacemaker. Hope you got the point. Did we ever say, Uri, you need to see a scholar

Now, suppose if a person belongs to a rural area. They never knew what a computer is, but just heard its name. A little learnt person, when brings a computer to his home, will he just read its manual and install & run it. Can he ? What he does is, he brings along a person, who knows to install it and start up. He teaches him few new things as well. This was a simple example i designed out of my understanding to explain you, that by just reading manual { Qur'an}, one cannot totally understand. A person who was bought to install, is like our Prophet, who was called as a walking Qur'an. I hope am clear.

There it is. Hidden message. "And cling to sunnah". Isn't that a way to say "sunni islam is a right path"?

I don't speak indirectly. I never meant that. Since sunnah and sunni are closer in terms you derived such !!

Now, your next question ?

Sorry, we are still on this one.

Okay, untill you get cleared, kindly don't move to the next.

I learnt that Haris is working thru PMs just because his posts were deleted. Let me tell that the new members, irrespective of their religion, or sect, needs there posts to be approved. Its not that we are against posts of Haris, that he is working thru PMs. When one feels he is right, he shud be over boards. If we were against Haris, we would never approve a single post of his. Why would we approve few and delete ! i myselves approved his posts. I thought to write openly instead of answering him thru his PM.

P.S. People keep repeating islam is simple.. yet it seems like so many people try to make it more compicated then it really is. At least to me.

Kindly shed that blockade from your mind that its complicated, else you shall see white as black always.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 12:11pm

You only approved those u think u can give some kind of a reply.All the other ones you just deleted.Thank GOD for pms the messages reached those blessed to get the message.Iam glad you acknowleged that u approved only few of the many i posted.God bless u for that :D.

My GOD! do u really believe that Quran is that complicated?Why didnt the Prophet write or have some one write down his sayings during his life time if it wouldve been of so much importance in these times?Did he forget ?Did GoD forget?Why does GOD promise that only his words will be preserved and not the sayings of the final Prophet?

Kindly shed that blockade from your mind that its complicated, else you shall see white as black always.

Good piece of advice.Id like to offer you the same.Quran isnt complicated.Its easy to study.Believe your LORD,trust him and he will teach u without any scholars.

[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.

Peace!

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 11:31pm

Hey Haris ! as far as i know, NONE of your post was deleted. I always approved them

U said :

Did i say Qur'an is complicated !!! Why did you go to college for further studies, when by school level you cud learn to read & study very well. Why did you seek assistance of professors !

Now, you don't complicate the issue Haris. I never said, its a must to seek a scholar. And did i name a scholar and suggested study him only ?

For your kind information, hadiths {sayings of prophet} were written during those times. Insha Allah, shall share a link of a thread.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 11:39pm

[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords,* instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners

You are misleading people with your understanding Haris !!

Fear Allah swt !! I stressed over need of being in touch with people who possess more knowledge than ours. Just it! It sometimes also suggested to members to stay active, or be in touch with people who practise Islam. Just because, that helps us to refresh our faith and keep ot live. Likewise, when we read scholars, will it not help in gaining more knowledge !! Is it not simple and clear to you !!!

I don't bother if you work with PMs and try to force your thoughts over them, i have trust in Allah swt that any misleading factors shud not affect them, because they are here to seek true knowledge, sincerly. Allah swt always guides the true seekers. May Allah swt lead all of us to straight path

Read this thread to know, how hadiths were written and collected during the days of Prophet

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16351 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16351

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 14 February 2010 at 11:51pm

Read this thread, as how hadiths were written during the days of Prophet

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16351 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16351

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 3:27am

Uri S,

Please don't worry about harris or any such matter in this thread. Please post in the comment section if you have any concern. Also, please don't use bold font for the entire body of the post. Please comply with the guidelines.

harris30432,

This is the third time, I am tellling you that please stay away from this thread. You may continue to post in the intrafaith section by engaging in discussion or dialogue. Please comply with the guidelines.

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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 18 February 2010 at 4:04am

Seekshidayath, let me give you a sample.. There are scholars that approve oral sex (probably those that live in western countries) and there are scholars that don't. There are scholars that approve masturbation, and there are scholars that don't. Now, how do I rule out which scholars are right and which are wrong? And tell me, how do these people came to such conclusions with SAME QURAN?
..I wonder if �Sorry, not my fault, I was just following scholar’s advice� is going to be an exuse on Judgment Day.. since quran has it clear �Behold Allah's guidance is the only (true) guidance�.

Now, suppose if� a person belongs to a rural area. They never knew what a computer is, but just heard its name. A little learnt person, when brings a computer to his home, will he just read its manual and install & run it. Can he ? What he does is, he brings along a person, who knows to install it and start up. He teaches him few new things as well. This was a simple example i designed out of my understanding to explain you, that by just reading manual { Qur'an}, one cannot totally understand. A person who was bought to install, is like our Prophet, who was called as a walking Qur'an. I hope am clear.

So, are you saying that quran is insufficient and you do need a manual along with it?

Well, follow sayings and practices of prophet.. ok.. here: "The Prophet said, "Bring me stones in order to clean my private parts, and do not bring any bones or animal dung." Sahih Bukhari 5:58:200 Well, I see he never used toilet paper.. The practice is to use stones.. how come we don't?

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 3:24am

As Salamu Alaikum

Uri, i was thinking of you all the day in my class. Morning, before starting up, i checked your post. When i attended my class, i had lecture of the same subject, you have been discussing. I thanked Allah swt, very much. I did note few points. Insha Allah, shall share them with you. What i was reflecting over is, how well Allah swt facilitates us with the sources, Allahu Akbar !!

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 19 February 2010 at 3:53am

By the way Uri, did you read the link, i shared at the first post of this page. Your second part of the post will be answered insha Allah

Regarding the other two questions of yours. I shall take an other example. During the days of Prophet there was no photography. Now, a question may arise if photography is allowed in Islam. Few scholars allow it and few don't. Your kind of question is what to do ? Is n't it

The Prophet sent Muadh bin Jabal to Yemen as their judge and governor. Before Muadh left the Prophet, he asked the latter on what basis would he judge if he was confronted with a problem.

Muadh said that he would judge on the basis of the contents of the Quran.

The Prophet asked him, "assuming that you do not find it in the Quran, on what basis would you judge",

Muadh said he would judge on the basis of the Sunnah of the Prophet.

The Prophet also asked him, "assuming that you do not find it both in the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophets, on what basis would you judge",

Muadh bin Jabal replied that he would use his own individual judgment.

And the Prophet was very happy to hear this statement".

Now about photography, we don't find directly in Qur'an and sunnah, that photography is prohibited. .There is something called "Ijtihaad", which means rulings are derived from Qur'an and sunnah. Scholars present there daleel {which means their derivations from Qur'an and sunnah}. Both who permit and do not permit present there daleels. Now, its upto us, whether we take any of the rulings. We are not blamed for not taking anything, nor are questioned by Allah swt.

Hope, you got your questions answered. If at all you are not clear, you can further question them

And yes, note that Ijtidaad may be wrong, as scholars though are very highly learnt persons, who spent there life in studying, are still humans. They are prone to errors and we are not bounded to follow them only.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 20 February 2010 at 1:52pm

So, how is this religion complete if you can't resolve some matters with Quran or with a scholar? (Not that I would anyway) I thought it should be “this is permissible to you, and this is not”. Now, that’s simple. And this, quoting you "Now, it’s up to us, whether we take any of the rulings. We are not blamed for not taking anything, nor are questioned by Allah swt." How is it working? I don't get it, so if I decide to go with a scholar that made a decision that masturbation or oral sex is ok then it's permissible to me, and if I decide to go with one who forbade it, it's ok too? How can we not know if it's a sin or not? I mean such a thing can lead me to being in hell, that's not a little matter; I sure want to know what sin is and what is not without having to guess or relying on myself.. I am prone to making mistakes, after all I am just a human and I would like a clear guidance so I can follow it without a doubt. As for photography, thanks for explaining,(I mean what's wrong with taking pictures of your family or nature,

can't believe that could be an issue too) yet I wish I could hear more on masturbation and oral sex, I do believe these existed at the time of a prophet...

P.S. Also, you never answered to this “So, are you saying that Quran is insufficient and you do need a manual along with it?”, instead you just pointed me to a thread on how hadith were written.

P.P.S.

I wonder if any scholars out there still use stones to wipe their butts, for some reason I highly doubt that. So, in some way, not that many people follow prophet's path..

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 9:09am

Oh ! you changed your name from uri to calvindamenace - Uri was bit easy to spell. Anyways,

And yes, i wish you were bit modest, Use good examples.

READ THIS : {Source Islam-qa} And yes, thanks for the discussion. Am getting to learn more out of this. Here was a question, similar to yours. It was answered as follows ;

If the Muslim has enough knowledge to enable him to compare the views of the scholars based on the evidence and to decide which is more likely to be correct, and he can tell what is more correct and more likely to be correct, then he must do that, because Allaah has commanded us to refer disputed matters to the Qur�aan and Sunnah, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

�(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination�[al-Nisa� 4:59]

So he should refer the disputed matter to the Qur�aan and Sunnah, and whatever appears to him to be more correct, based on the evidence, is what he should follow, because what is obligatory is to follow the evidence, and he may refer to the words of the scholars to help him understand the evidence.

But if the Muslim does not have sufficient knowledge to enable him to decide which of the scholarly opinions is more likely to be correct, then he should ask the people of knowledge whose knowledge and religious commitment he trusts and then follow the advice or fatwas they give. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

�So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know�

[al-Anbiya� 21:43]

If their opinions differ, then he should follow the one who is most trustworthy and most knowledgeable. This is like when a person falls sick � may Allaah give us all good health � and he looks for the most trustworthy and knowledgeable doctor so that he can go to him, because he is most likely to give him the right treatment than anyone else. It is more important to be on the safe side in religious matters than in worldly ones.

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow whatever scholarly opinion suits his desires if it goes against the evidence, or to seek fatwas from those who he thinks are going to be lenient in their fatwas.

Rather he has to be on the safe side when it comes to his religion, and ask the scholars who have the most knowledge and are most fearing of Allaah.

Al-Khilaaf bayna al-�Ulama� by Shaykh Ibn �Uthaymeen, 26; Liqa� Munawwa� ma�a Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, p. 25, 26

Is it befitting for a wise man to take precautions for his physical health and go to the most skilled doctors no matter how far away they are, and spend a great deal of money on that, then take the matter of his religion lightly and not to care about it unless it coincides with his whims and desires, and to take the easiest fatwa even if it is contrary to the truth? Indeed, there are even people who � Allaah forbid � ask a scholar a question, and if his fatwa does not suit their whims and desires, they will ask another, and another, until they find a person who will give them the fatwa they want!

There is no scholar who does not have some issues in which he strove to make a decision on the basis of ijtihaad but failed to reach the right answer, but he is excused for that and he will have a reward for his ijtihaad, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): �If a judge passes a ruling to the best of his ability and knowledge and gets it right, he will have two rewards. If he passes a ruling to the best of his ability and knowledge but gets it wrong, he will have one reward.� (al-Bukhaari, 7352; Muslim, 1716).

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow the errors and mistakes of the scholars, for that combines all kinds of evil. Hence the scholars said: whoever follows that concerning which the scholars differed, and takes the easiest of their fatwas, becomes a heretic, or close enough. Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/228. Heresy means hypocrisy.

We ask Allaah to give us understanding and to help us to acquire beneficial knowledge and to do righteous deeds.

And Allaah knows best. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and grant him peace.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 12:18pm

seekshidayath wrote:

Oh ! you changed your name from uri to calvindamenace - Uri was bit easy to spell. Anyways,

And yes, i wish you were bit modest, Use good examples.

We are old enough and mature enough to talk about it.

If the Muslim has enough knowledge to enable him to compare the views of the scholars based on the evidence and to decide which is more likely to be correct, and he can tell what is more correct and more likely to be correct, then he must do that, because Allaah has commanded us to refer disputed matters to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination”[al-Nisa’ 4:59]

So he should refer the disputed matter to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and whatever appears to him to be more correct, based on the evidence, is what he should follow, because what is obligatory is to follow the evidence, and he may refer to the words of the scholars to help him understand the evidence.

One's going to see a scholar cause his knowledge on some matters is not sufficient, right?

So how can he compare and decide what's more correct?

It just doesn't make sence.

But if the Muslim does not have sufficient knowledge to enable him to decide which of the scholarly opinions is more likely to be correct, then he should ask the people of knowledge whose knowledge and religious commitment he trusts and then follow the advice or fatwas they give. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:43]

We have talked about it already; people have different views and make different decisions.

If their opinions differ, then he should follow the one who is most trustworthy and most knowledgeable. This is like when a person falls sick – may Allaah give us all good health – and he looks for the most trustworthy and knowledgeable doctor so that he can go to him, because he is most likely to give him the right treatment than anyone else. It is more important to be on the safe side in religious matters than in worldly ones.

How do you decide who's more trustworthy in an age of information? This is not old days where you had to travel to a nearby village to see an old guy who'd explain to you his views... Can you even imagine how many different points of views you can read online?

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow whatever scholarly opinion suits his desires if it goes against the evidence, or to seek fatwas from those who he thinks are going to be lenient in their fatwas.

Again, who's to say which scholar is right on a matter that botheres me?

Rather he has to be on the safe side when it comes to his religion, and ask the scholars who have the most knowledge and are most fearing of Allaah.

This is amazing. Answer me please; which scholars do poses more knowledge? Addresses and phone numbers would be great.

>

Al-Khilaaf bayna al-‘Ulama’ by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, 26; Liqa’ Munawwa’ ma’a Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, p. 25, 26

Is it befitting for a wise man to take precautions for his physical health and go to the most skilled doctors no matter how far away they are, and spend a great deal of money on that, then take the matter of his religion lightly and not to care about it unless it coincides with his whims and desires, and to take the easiest fatwa even if it is contrary to the truth? Indeed, there are even people who – Allaah forbid – ask a scholar a question, and if his fatwa does not suit their whims and desires, they will ask another, and another, until they find a person who will give them the fatwa they want!

Yeah, they would. Cause it seems like this religion does give you a chance to go by someone's view, not by word of God.

Who knows, maybe these people decided that first scholar they saw didn't poses as much knowledge and went to see another.. which also didn't posses enough, so they had to go see another...

There is no scholar who does not have some issues in which he strove to make a decision on the basis of ijtihaad but failed to reach the right answer, but he is excused for that and he will have a reward for his ijtihaad, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “If a judge passes a ruling to the best of his ability and knowledge and gets it right, he will have two rewards. If he passes a ruling to the best of his ability and knowledge but gets it wrong, he will have one reward.” (al-Bukhaari, 7352; Muslim, 1716).

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow the errors and mistakes of the scholars, for that combines all kinds of evil. Hence the scholars said: whoever follows that concerning which the scholars differed, and takes the easiest of their fatwas, becomes a heretic, or close enough. Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/228. Heresy means hypocrisy.

We are walking in circles here... Like I mentioned above, we go to see a scholar due to the luck of knowledge, how do we know if he's wrong?

And yet if he is wrong we can't follow him.

Guess this made sence for you somehow. (??)

We ask Allaah to give us understanding and to help us to acquire beneficial knowledge and to do righteous deeds.

And Allaah knows best. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and grant him peace.

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 5:48am

I just noticed you've moved topic from New Muslims to General Islamic Matter. I did post it in Groups - New Muslims for a reason. I bet many new muslims have these questions. Or are you guys not comfortable with new muslims reading this?

Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 6:04am

Seeks-'scholars though are very highly learnt persons, who spent there life in studying, are still humans. They are prone to errors and we are not bounded to follow them only.'

Do you realize that this is what we are ultimately saying?

If a muslim follows the Quran then at least there should be no confusion.

There are many good people in the world. Doesn't make them right or wrong. They are not the prophet(pbuh) nor do these scholars talk words straight from Allah.

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 7:40am

calvindamenace wrote:

I just noticed you've moved topic from New Muslims to General Islamic Matter. I did post it in Groups - New Muslims for a reason. I bet many new muslims have these questions. Or are you guys not comfortable with new muslims reading this?

We wanted this thread to be read by all muslims {not just new muslims}

Insha Allah, shall reply your post soon.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 22 February 2010 at 6:23pm

martha wrote:

Seeks-'scholars though are very highly learnt persons, who spent there life in studying, are still humans. They are prone to errors and we are not bounded to follow them only.'

Do you realize that this is what we are ultimately saying?

As Salamu Alaikum

Sis Martha, firstly let me make clear to you that one goes for the ruling over matters that are not very clear and apparent by our knowledge of Qur'an and sunnah. Not every muslim is well-bounded with Islamic knowledge.

For today, i shall leave you a homework. {Both you and Uri/Calvin}

Can we slaughter a dog ? {Prove me from only Qur'an}

Insha Allah, this question shall help you realise the need of scholar.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 5:28am

I am not here for homework. Once again, I am not here to prove anything, I am here to get answers to my questions. Yet, I'll look it up while you take your time to answer to my last post. (My understandings, if a dog causes trouble, let’s say if it's too aggressive towards human being, sure you can.)

P.S. As far as I know there are also different views on a keeping a dog which is crazy... I mean what could be wrong with having a dog. I love dogs; it's an animal and no matter what any scholar says... I'm going to keep one and they can keep on following their self-made rules. Here: "The Quran also tells that it is permissible to eat what trained dogs catch (5:4)." Ok, do hunters that have these dogs for hunting also have to go through purification every time a dog touches him? Do they have to purify whatever they got too?

Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 9:15am

There is nothing wrong with having a dog. I can;t find anything in the Quran to say we can slaughter a dog. THough dogs are mentioned several times. There is the story of the men in the cave. If dogs were not permitted then they would not have been created.

Hadiths contradict. SOme say kill a dog, others don't BUt Muhammed loved animals. So why on earth would I need a scholar in this instance? Because it doesn't say much in the Quran?

Another point. Scholars say donkeys are haram. How ridiculous! Do you not know of the story of Hala Sultan?
(donkeys btw get treated terribly by many ignorant people. WOuld that be why then? cause they think them haram?)

Your post does not make any sense to me at all :(

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 2:42pm

here seekshidayath.. an article for you - http://www.quran-islam.org/meat_of_dogs_and_cats_(P1138).html Also, I didn't understand what you meant by "slaughter"? For food? Well if you'd eat that, sure, why not.

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 6:18pm

Well, Martha and calvin, there's no direct command of Allah swt in the Qur'an about dogs to be eaten. {Am sorry for giving a senseless example, as i was reading of dogs in Islam yesterday, so holded that in my mind }

What i intended to say, there are many such things in the Qur'an of which Qur'an is not direct. Very simple example is of salah. Qur'an commands us for salah while hadith explain us how to offer salah. I was trying to explain you all that.

Regarding contradictions, for example these days i was debating over permissibility of celebration of Prophet's birthday in Islam. There is variation of views . Scholars contradict. Both the types, prove from Qur'an and sunnah, as its permissible and not permissible. What to do in that case.We can take up any ruling, that which we feel is correct. We shud not follow our desires. But there's an insight within us, and Allah swt knows us very well. If we are true seekers, we will get true guidance from Allah swt.

At matters where Qur'an and Sunnah are absolutely silent, and when we take up any ruling from the scholar, which we feel it appropriate, and which are much closer to Quran and sunnah, then we are not questioned by Allah swt for that. Nor, is it a sin. Allah swt surely guides sincere seekers .

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 23 February 2010 at 8:00pm

seekshidayath wrote:

Well, Martha and calvin, there's no direct command of Allah swt in the Qur'an about dogs to be eaten. {Am sorry for giving a senseless example, as i was reading of dogs in Islam yesterday, so holded that in my mind }

Well, there's no direct command not to eat a dog but there's one for a pig, right? I doubt that it was forgotten to mention such for a dog.

And then hadith all of a sudden make dogs.. Not clean? Show me in Quran where it says that they are not clean animals. Thank you.

What i intended to say, there are many such things in the Qur'an of which Qur'an is not direct. Very simple example is of salah. Qur'an commands us for salah while hadith explain us how to offer salah. I was trying to explain you all that.

We come back to this question so many times... Are you saying Quran is incomplete? Remind you, I wasn't muslim for long before these questions came, but I promise you I'll look in on subject of salah and answer you as soon as possible.

Regarding contradictions, for example these days i was debating over permissibility of celebration of Prophet's birthday in Islam. There is variation of views . Scholars contradict. Both the types, prove from Qur'an and sunnah, as its permissible and not permissible. What to do in that case.We can take up any ruling, that which we feel is correct. We shud not follow our desires. But there's an insight within us, and Allah swt knows us very well. If we are true seekers, we will get true guidance from Allah swt.

And how many are there such examples? How many times are you going to rely on someone instead on relying on God's word?

At matters where Qur'an and Sunnah are absolutely silent, and when we take up any ruling from the scholar, which we feel it appropriate, and which are much closer to Quran and sunnah, then we are not questioned by Allah swt for that. Nor, is it a sin. Allah swt surely guides sincere seekers .

Sample, what if a scholar tells it is permissible to have an oral sex with my wife and I find it ok with me because I do believe it's ok, but at the end when I come in front of Almighty it is sin? If you can't have a 100% assurance on what is sin and what is not with a book of God!! and have to guide yourself by guessing or relying on someone's opinion, then what kind of a "clear path" are we talking about here? And may I ask you, who told you that you are not going to be questioned by Allah for taking up rulings made up by scholars? How do you know it wouldn't be a sin? Show me such thing in Quran.

Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 12:55am

Salams Seeks,

It is interesting that you mentioned salat in your above post as an example that the Qur'an is not very direct on this matter(thus us needing hadith as a back-up)

I do not agree. We already know that all religious practices came from Abraham (ie salat, fasting,zakat and hajj)We should assume then that Muhammed and the believers were all ready well aquainted with practicing salat correctly. So it would not have been necessary to have the actual practice(ritual) revealed in the Qur'an.
Salat WAS revealed in the Qur'an for the purpose of the idolatrous Quraishi to observe the salat. ( were they then offering salat incorrectly and needed reproving? I assume that would be the case)

And again,after Muhammed died(when Islam changed and followers split into sects) did we have different versions of salat. ANd that continues today.

Muhammed never at any time in his daily life needed to instruct the people how to do the salat( not that I am aware of) We can read in the Qur'an that Muhammed had no other duty than to reveal the Qur'an.
He was the messenger , not the guardian/protector/keeper/watcher. (Qu'ran 42:48)

So, in matters where Qur'an is seemingly silent we should consider that everything was already known to the people. THe Qur'an is perfect..we should not add to it. NOr do we take anything away from it.

Again, regarding celebrating the Prophet's birthday. I would not consider that to be important enough to have scholars debating over it.

And if we are not questioned by Allah for following wrong hadiths I cannot see how we are accountable for not following hadiths. If in doubt, don't do it. Isn't that the best advice for a believer?

We do agree on one thing here Seeks..that ALlah surely guides sincere seekers. :) May He guide us all.

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 24 February 2010 at 6:10pm

martha wrote:

We already know that all religious practices came from Abraham (ie salat, ZAKAH

Is it ? Can you kindly quote that ayah ?

We should assume then that Muhammed and the believers were all ready well aquainted with practicing salat correctly.

My question was when Quran orders us to do salah, how shud we do it, when we are not to follow the teachings of Muhammad. Quran does n't teach us to do salah, as the way we do it , right ?

Salat WAS revealed in the Qur'an for the purpose of the idolatrous Quraishi to observe the salat. ( were they then offering salat incorrectly and needed reproving? I assume that would be the case)

How can you say that salah was revealed with that purpose ? I don't want assumptions. I need backup from the only source you believe in, i.e Qur'an.

And again,after Muhammed died(when Islam changed and followers split into sects) did we have different versions of salat. ANd that continues today.

Is it

Muhammed never at any time in his daily life needed to instruct the people how to do the salat( not that I am aware of)

Kindly add - Peace be upon him or sallal lahu alayhi wasallam, after Prophet's name. And Prophet instructed believers to offer salah as they see him doing.

We can read in the Qur'an that Muhammed had no other duty than to reveal the Qur'an.
He was the messenger , not the guardian/protector/keeper/watcher. (Qu'ran 42:48)

You can also get to read these ayaat

Say (O beloved Prophet, to mankind): If you love Allah, then follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (3:31)

Indeed in the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example for him whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. (33:21)

The saying of the believers when summoned to Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger that he may judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. And they are the successful. (24:51)

O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger and those in authority from amongst you, then if you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and very good in the end. (4:59)

So, in matters where Qur'an is seemingly silent we should consider that everything was already known to the people.

What about us, the muslims living after Prophet ? I shall not trust people around me if they really practicising the way Prophet did. Also, you don't want me to lookin sunnah {hadith}.

THe Qur'an is perfect..we should not add to it. NOr do we take anything away from it.

Qur'an is PERFECT. NOR ARE WE TO ADD ANYTHING OR GO AGAINST IT. By following hadith, we are infact practicisng the command of Allah in Qur'an, wherein we are asked to take Prophet as or Ideal, and we are asked to obey the messenger. Let me make it loud and clear, though already you did read it, that by following hadith am not going against Qur'an and infact by rejecting sunnah, one is going against the commands of Allah swt.

Again, regarding celebrating the Prophet's birthday. I would not consider that to be important enough to have scholars debating over it.

Its important for me as a believer to be alert of every act i do and the belief i hold. I would consider every act of mine important for all of us accountable for what we do.

And if we are not questioned by Allah for following wrong hadiths I cannot see how we are accountable for not following hadiths. If in doubt, don't do it. Isn't that the best advice for a believer?

We are accountable for not following the hadith. Its like one who is rejecting the hadith is infact rejecting Qur'an. When Allah commands to obey messenger {many times in Qur'an}, how do you obey messsenger , when you don't look at hadith ?

We do agree on one thing here Seeks..that ALlah surely guides sincere seekers. :) May He guide us all.

Ameen

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:23am

I hope I'm going to get an answer to my post too.

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:29am

Can you post that question directly, Uri.

Those posts above were addressed to both of you.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:32am

I wish Uri and Martha to read this link, {kindly}

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16389 - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16389

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:41am

Well okay, here are the posts that I haven't gotten answers to: 1.Page 6, Posted: 21 February 2010 at 10:18pm and 2.Page 7, Posted: 24 February 2010 at 6:00am. Thanks

P.S. Seeks, you never plucked your eyebrows? Really?

Also, I could argue with you about meaning of this verse "And whatever the Messenger gives you, take it; and whatever he forbids you, shun it." [Al-Hashr (59):7], all it says is do what is allowed and don't what's not, you and scholars (one of them is ‘Abdull�h Ibn Mas’�d) on an other side try to make it more complicated then it really is.

Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 9:35am

Salams Seeks,

I have read the above link. What exactly is your point?

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 10:11am

Seeks,

I appreciate your time and effort, but really it is not helping. You, and not you alone, prefer to rely on unreliable hadiths. Really sister, that is fine, but I chose not to.

We can continue backwards and forwards discussing these issues but they will help us little.

I go to various sources to gain as much info as possible. ANd I have come to the conclusion that I am fine to follow the course I am taking.

If that offends you then my apologies, but I still prefer to follow my God as I see fit. I would rather be a goat than follow the flock of sheep that goes over the cliff.

May you be blessed for your efforts.

Assalam alaikum.

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 10:35am

Hey Martha,

I don't think you are any different than anyone else, ultimately, most people are trying to do the "right thing." I have seen very good Muslims do something that may not be "acceptable." They came to their own conclusions either based upon acurate or inaccurate information. And really it comes down to INTENTION. Ultimately Allah knows what was a person's intention.

Its like for you and I, not being a native Arabic speaker or being a scholar, we only do so much based upon reason. And there are people far, far more challenged in this regard then us- we ca nat least read a translation, some people cannot read anything.

Have you learned any more about the Schools?" These are based upon well thought out, well researched and consistent knowledge. We avergae folks are so limited in our knowledge is comparison.

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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi

Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 11:21am

Hi Hayfa,

Thanks for the words :) You're right , it ultimately comes down to intention (good of course)

AM trying to learn about good schools. Will get there eventually I guess

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 6:43pm

martha wrote:

Salams Seeks,

I have read the above link. What exactly is your point?

Wa'laikum salaam.

Sis, my intention of sharing that link was to let you know the importance of following hadith. You insisted that Qur'an is complete and there's no need of following hadith. So was it.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 6:50pm

Sis Hayfa, thanks for your post. I don't understand why martha changed like that. That really worried me. Its a big deviation when people say that only Qur;an shud be followed. {You must be knowing of that group - Rashad Khilafa} I was trying my best to convey her that hadith are also important to understand Qur'an. She also denies the importance of reaching out scholars {I mean studying them}. If i would have mentioned those scholars as madhabs or school of thoughts, then again she would get confused and stubborn with her thoughts.

Anyways, am glad that she is trying to learn more and more. Insha Allah, this journey of gaining knowledge shall make her get more experiences and sound knowledge. Ameen.

Am sorry Martha if i sounded tough to you in my last post. But i had to be so. So you at other discussions, insha Allah

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:46pm

Hm.. so many muslims and not so many answers. Still waiting on my answers seekshidayath.. or anyone else.

P.S.

seekshidayath wrote:

You insisted that Qur'an is complete ..

At least we got some kind of an answer to "Are you saying Quran is incomplete" out of this quote, don't you think?

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 2:01am

Calvin !! i was gifted a book today. And you know what it was - 'The Authority of Sunnah'. Am reading that.

I had no time, to lookin to your post. But insha Allah, by sunday, {since shall look at those questions, what exactly they are}

I was very excited to get such gift. Look, how well, Allah swt helped me

By the way, your lines are the same as Haris. Only one simple question to you. You must have offered salah earlier. Qur'an does n't teach us how many units {rakat} of salah shud one offer, and how shud we offer, and what shud we recite while performing salah. My simple question to you is,how shud one offer salah, when you insist that hadiths shud not be taken

And kindly note QURAN IS COMPLETE. I repeated many times that BY FOLLOWING SUNNAH, AND BY STUDYING HADITH, ONE IS FOLLOWING THE COMMAND OF ALLAH.

My second question to you is, when Allah swt repeatedly ordered us in Qur'an to take Prophet sallal lahu alaihi wasallam, as ideal, how shud we take him, as we don't live in his days..

Kindly do answer these questions

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 2:24am

Salams Seeks,

I am not worried if you are tough on me. If Allah was tough on me that would be a different matter.

See, I was not born muslim. Hayfa will understand that for us reverts it is very different. It isn't just following the religion, it has other impacts on our daily life. We are conscientious and have to enquire.

Seeks, you and I are like opposite ends of the magnets. In our own way we aim for the same things in this life and the next.

Muslims say religion is a way of life. Imagine how you would feel and cope with living as a Catholic for example. Do you not think it would be difficult for you to make Catholic living a way of life? Forget about which religion is right or wrong here..just try to imagine the difficulties faced...no other like minded people close by..family members avoiding you. Try to imagine this.
Perhaps then you would understand the difficulties faced for reverts.

Then try to imagine all Catholics saying different things about the stories and life of..hmm..Jesus, Mary, things they did and said...which way they performed prayer, how many times a day they did it. What they ate and drank to break a fast. What side they slept on. If you can perfom wudu in the snow when there is no water....

NOw as naive as it might sound, for some reverts, when they first come to Islam, they think all muslims say and follow pretty much the same things. The Shia's and Sunnis have obvious outwardly rituals, but as Hayfa said on the whole people(muslims) come to their own conclusions about information out there.

So...then there is added confusion for a revert. Then you get mullahs/imams/scholars..all varying. I have seen that a lot. NOw for a straightforward, logical thinking person like me...that does not make sense.

That then brings us to the question of hadiths. Which to follow, which not to. Recently I was talking to a Shia friend of mine on line. They were also confused for a while, to the extent they wanted to change to Sunni. For certain reasons they did not change. Following Sunni did not offer the answers either. So now they say they are muslim with no prefix.

We can continue to discuss all these different mannerisms and rituals of a religion. Who is right, who is wrong. We will never be in complete agreement with another.

I am more than happy for people to point out my errors and say I am wrong, that I have gone agaisnt Islam, whatever they want to say, but hey, it is my life, it is my decision and I will do what is best for my body and innerself to bring me closer to God.

TBH I have learnt more this past 2 weeks than I have in 6years altogether. Regardless of what our member haris has said, whether others say he is wrong or not, whether he is a follower of Rashad Khalifa or not, he has in fact been consistant, and he does make a lot of sense. ANd I admire that in a person. He actually KNOWS what he is saying, and believes it too.

So... you now want to know where I am I guess. I will read the Quran and follow God the best way I know how, not the way other people think is best for me.

Lol, not that it matters, but you tried to make a point that I was not respectful to Muhammed(pbuh)because I forgot to say pbuh. That is rare I have to say for me not to do so. BUt actually I think for most of the time I have said salaams to you and other members when addressing them? BUt you did not say salaams to me Seeks? Do we not say that to fellow muslims? It starts to then go beyond the ridiculous.

I think I have learned enough for the time being in this forum re: Religion. I will visit to join in on other non-religious matters from time to time...so please excuse me if I find replying to current topics rather insignificant for my progress. My intentions are good.

Perhaps I will send a smiley instead of answering with words.

Have a good day

Asalam alaikum :)

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 26 February 2010 at 3:20am

Walaikum Salaam

Am sorry Martha, if i had missed to say salaam to you. I just looked back, i answered your salaam. I did even say salaam to you.

Am extremely sorry if i misconcepted you anywhere, while discussions. I now, understand you. Once again, am sorry for it.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 02 March 2010 at 7:40am

seekshidayath wrote:

I had no time, to lookin to your post. But insha Allah, by sunday, {since shall look at those questions, what exactly they are}

Guess it wasn't Allah will for me to get an answer.. Even pass Sunday. Anyway, to make it easier for you (seems like you neet it) I decided to post these questions once more in this post.

And then hadith all of a sudden make dogs.. Not clean? Show me in Quran where it says that they are not clean animals. Thank you.

Regarding contradictions, for example these days i was debating over permissibility of celebration of Prophet's birthday in Islam. There is variation of views . Scholars contradict. Both the types, prove from Qur'an and sunnah, as its permissible and not permissible. What to do in that case.We can take up any ruling, that which we feel is correct. We shud not follow our desires. But there's an insight within us, and Allah swt knows us very well. If we are true seekers, we will get true guidance from Allah swt.

And how many are there such examples? How many times are you going to rely on someone instead on relying on God's word?

At matters where Qur'an and Sunnah are absolutely silent, and when we take up any ruling from the scholar, which we feel it appropriate, and which are much closer to Quran and sunnah, then we are not questioned by Allah swt for that. Nor, is it a sin. Allah swt surely guides sincere seekers .

Sample, what if a scholar tells it is permissible to have an oral sex with my wife and I find it ok with me because I do believe it's ok, but at the end when I come in front of Almighty it is sin? If you can't have a 100% assurance on what is sin and what is not with a book of God!! and have to guide yourself by guessing or relying on someone's opinion, then what kind of a "clear path" are we talking about here? And may I ask you, who told you that you are not going to be questioned by Allah for taking up rulings made up by scholars? How do you know it wouldn't be a sin? Show me such thing in Quran.

If the Muslim has enough knowledge to enable him to compare the views of the scholars based on the evidence and to decide which is more likely to be correct, and he can tell what is more correct and more likely to be correct, then he must do that, because Allaah has commanded us to refer disputed matters to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination”[al-Nisa’ 4:59]

So he should refer the disputed matter to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and whatever appears to him to be more correct, based on the evidence, is what he should follow, because what is obligatory is to follow the evidence, and he may refer to the words of the scholars to help him understand the evidence.

One's going to see a scholar cause his knowledge on some matters is not sufficient, right?

So how can he compare and decide what's more correct?

It just doesn't make sence.

If their opinions differ, then he should follow the one who is most trustworthy and most knowledgeable. This is like when a person falls sick – may Allaah give us all good health – and he looks for the most trustworthy and knowledgeable doctor so that he can go to him, because he is most likely to give him the right treatment than anyone else. It is more important to be on the safe side in religious matters than in worldly ones.

How do you decide who's more trustworthy in an age of information? This is not old days where you had to travel to a nearby village to see an old guy who'd explain to you his views... Can you even imagine how many different points of views you can read online? You just might spent an eternity reading..

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow whatever scholarly opinion suits his desires if it goes against the evidence, or to seek fatwas from those who he thinks are going to be lenient in their fatwas.

Again, who's to say which scholar is right on a matter that botheres me?

Rather he has to be on the safe side when it comes to his religion, and ask the scholars who have the most knowledge and are most fearing of Allaah.

This is amazing. Answer me please; which scholars do poses more knowledge? Addresses and phone numbers would be great.

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow the errors and mistakes of the scholars, for that combines all kinds of evil. Hence the scholars said: whoever follows that concerning which the scholars differed, and takes the easiest of their fatwas, becomes a heretic, or close enough. Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/228. Heresy means hypocrisy.

We are walking in circles here... Like I mentioned above, we go to see a scholar due to the luck of knowledge, how do we know if he's wrong?

And yet if he is wrong we can't follow him.

Guess this made sence for you somehow. (??)

P.S. Seems like we are not going nowhere and the whole process moves really slow (maybe it's because of the type of the question or maybe and it seems like it not that many muslims have answers to such question and the ones that do aren't that ...competent. No offence seekshadiyath, but I wonder why is it only you that answer? Anyway, you are more than welcome to answer to this post while I'll move on to my next subject which I’ll post next. Guess it will be salah .

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 March 2010 at 6:36pm

My apologies Calvin for not replying you. Thanx for bringing up the post.

Well, there's no direct command not to eat a dog but there's one for a pig, right? I doubt that it was forgotten to mention such for a dog.

And then hadith all of a sudden make dogs.. Not clean? Show me in Quran where it says that they are not clean animals. Thank you

Calvin, there are many things in the Qur'an which are not direct. Anyways, when we find no direct command from Qur'an, we lookinto hadith. Hadith {which are the the desirous sayings of Prophet, but are from Allah },. If a hadith forbades us, we stop it and when it is silent too, we can take either.

And how many are there such examples? How many times are you going to rely on someone instead on relying on God's word?

Okay, can you take out from Qur'an, if we are to celebrate birthday of Prophet or not ?

One's going to see a scholar cause his knowledge on some matters is not sufficient, right?

So how can he compare and decide what's more correct?

It just doesn't make sence.

We don't blindly follow scholars Calvin. By the way these scholars give us rulings from Qur'an and sunnah

You did not write to me about this ayah ? - "�(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination�[al-Nisa� 4:59] " How will you interpret this ? How will you refer back to messenger ? Qur'an is for all the people even after Prophet. How shud i refer to the messenger ?

How do you decide who's more trustworthy in an age of information? This is not old days where you had to travel to a nearby village to see an old guy who'd explain to you his views... Can you even imagine how many different points of views you can read online? You just might spent an eternity reading

Simple example, check your selves. You are not taking anything from my post. Not a point do you agree, Its just because you don't trust me. Neither am going to learn anything from you, since i don't trust you {to be plain and frank]

Remember Calvin, we daily make duas and even while in salah at surah Fatiha, we pray Allah to guide us to the rightpath. Believe me, when we sincerely make prayers, Allah swt surely guides us. He makes true sources reach us. We do trust him and take. Mind it, that we reach out scholars, only when few issues are not apparent to us.

You must have read that ayah many times in which Allah swt commands us to ask, those who know. What do you mean by this ? Can u kindly interpret it ?

Again, who's to say which scholar is right on a matter that botheres me?

It's answered above

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 02 March 2010 at 6:45pm

Our discussions are taking us nowhere, calvin. Anyways, i wish you to answer my questions before we move forward. Those two from my above post, and the other which i had been posting and reposting, as how shall we take Prophet Muhammad {sallal lahu alayhi wasallam} as our Ideal, when Qur'an commands us such.

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 03 March 2010 at 12:09am

seekshidayath wrote:

Okay, can you take out from Qur'an, if we are to celebrate birthday of Prophet or not ?

Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn.(3:79) Well, there it says it all, don't you think? In fact, isn't that what christians do - celebrate the birth of Christ? I mean it does seem like muslims bring Muhammad to such level where he becomes... almost as God, I mean for God’s sake you even put him in an every prayer!! (And as far as my understanding goes a prayer should be for a glorifying God, right?)

You did not write to me about this ayah ? - "“(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination”[al-Nisa’ 4:59] " How will you interpret this ? How will you refer back to messenger ? Qur'an is for all the people even after Prophet. How shud i refer to the messenger ?

Yeah, I wasn't a muslim for long, and yet even to me it seems like so much stuff is outdated. Like this verse. Honestly, I have no answer to this question. I’ll research more on this one. Thanks. By the way, it says "refer it to Allah and His Messenger", not to scholars or “learned persons", right? Are trying to say that by communicating through scholar we somehow communicate with God and Messenger? Or by reading hadith you do? Do you tolerate all hadith or not? If yes, I can point you to hadith where women are compared to dogs or monkeys (Bukhari 8/102 and Hanbel 4/86)... Is that OK with you? Or you choose which ones to accept and which not to?

You must have read that ayah many times in which Allah swt commands us to ask, those who� know. What do you mean by this ? Can u kindly interpret it ?

Bring up the verse please.

You are not taking anything from my post. Not a point do you agree, Its just because you don't trust me. Neither am going to learn anything from you, since i don't trust you {to be plain and frank]

How can I trust a woman if... "Women are naturally, morally and religiously defective".(Bukhary).

P.S. Please, do not compare me to haris, since he still considers himself a muslim, even if it's a muslim that abolished hadith (Quran only muslim ??) and I on the other side, don't consider myself muslim no more. I am not pro or against hadith, nor I am trying to prove anyone wrong, it's a simple conversation (that sometimes get's to stage of arguing) on things that I find difficult, insulting or simple silly in islam. I am just looking for rationality (that I was told existed in this religion), asking questions and welcoming answers. Sometimes I get anxious and not so nice, yeah I know, but that's how I am. Sorry if I offended anyone by stating my thought out in open.

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 03 March 2010 at 1:39am

If you can't have a 100% assurance on what is sin and what is not with a book of God!! and have to guide yourself by guessing or relying on someone's opinion, then what kind of a "clear path" are we talking about here? And may I ask you, who told you that you are not going to be questioned by Allah for taking up rulings made up by scholars? How do you know it wouldn't be a sin? Show me such thing in Quran.

One of your quotes was not answered. I asked it to a person {Br. Abuzaid[, whom i trust for his knowledge in deen. This was his answer, which shall insha Allah, satisfy you.

Islam is clear path in the sense that it tell us what should be our faith clearly without leavin any ambiguity with regard to Allah and His attribute.

Now, fact that there are some disputed issues in Islam does not make it ambiguous religion. Dispute arises just because Allah himself have not made something clear to us and He being all knowing did it deliberately. Intelligence is one of the great gift of Allah SW that He had given us and this is to be used in the matter of Deen as well as in acquiring worldly means. Islam encourages us to think and ponder upon issues instead of giving us complete and rigid solutions. Morever, when it comes to issues of jurisprudence, many of the issues are related to context and condition in which we live. So, giving a rigid solution would make more problems and sometime it would become impossible to follow the ruling in varying contexts.

So, it is flexiblity and ease that Allah SW has given us considering human weakness and considering the fact that Islam should be practiced in varying environment till doomsday.

Now, regarding the question that what is proof that if we follow a genuine scholar in disputed issue we will not be questioned.

This is how it goes.

1. It has be clear from Quran that we must obey Allah and His messenger.

2. But, obeying Allah and His messenger is subjected to knowledge a person acquire

3. Everybody cannot get same degree of knowledge because of the varying context in which they are born in and because of various degree of intelligence, memory and attitudes humans have.

4. Some of the people who specialized in Islamic knowledge by devoting their full time of Islam knowledge must be considered more knowledgeable subjected to their degree of intelligence and sincerity.

5. Thus practically it is not possible for a common person to acquire enough knowledge to form an opinion in disputed issues.

6. I am not willing to devote my time to prove a common person wrong if he insists that he has enough knowledge on a subject and can form an opinion based on his own knowledge and intelligence. He will be judged by Allah SW. If he is right he may get reward for it and if he wrong he is answerable to Allah SW. This is he who has to justify his act on the day of judgement.

7. Now, what if there is a dispute between scholars who has sound knowledge, wisdom and sincerity? Well, for a common person, he has to be sincere in obeying Allah and His messenger and should do his best to get most right opinion. If in this process he err or the scholars to whom he follows make mistake, the person cannot be responsible.

8. Proof! well it is simply established by the last verse in Surah Baqarah

On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray:) "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: seekshidayath
Date Posted: 03 March 2010 at 2:28am

`Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn.(3:79) Well, there it says it all, don't you think? In fact, isn't that what christians do - celebrate the birth of Christ? I mean it does seem like muslims bring Muhammad to such level where he becomes... almost as God, I mean for God�s sake you even put him in an every prayer!! (And as far as my understanding goes a prayer should be for a glorifying God, right?)

Its not idolising at all. To celebrate birthday - is it idolising ? What if, christians celebrate b'day of christ ? How do you connect them and state celebratin the b'day of Prophet Muhammad {sallal lahu alayhi wasallam} is wrong ? When you wish my answers from Qur'an, i also expect you to support your answer by Qur'an and sunnah . Also, why is it taking him as God when we just celebrate b'day ?

I mean for God�s sake you even put him in an every prayer!! (And as far as my understanding goes a prayer should be for a glorifying God, right?)

We offer out put him in every prayer {in your words}, as Allah stated us in Qur'an to send blessings over him, as Allah and angels also send him. Is it taking Prophet as God ?

Yeah, I wasn't a muslim for long, and yet even to me it seems like so much stuff is outdated.

So, its time to move your thread at non-muslims section. Now you don't even take Qur'an as word of God. When you have no answers you simply state its outdated. Whats the use of these discussions ?

Like this verse. Honestly, I have no answer to this question. I�ll research more on this one. Thanks.

By the way, it says "refer it to Allah and His Messenger", not to scholars or �learned persons", right?

I shall quote you the ayah, wherein its said that we can reach out those who possess more knowledge.. By the way, you atleast prove to me, as how shud one refer to messenger ? - I shall give you the answer - simply by following his sayings, which are preserved.

Are trying to say that by communicating through scholar we somehow communicate with God and Messenger?

These kind of derivings come, when we try to understand by our own. So try to reach men of understanding, sincerly.

Or by reading hadith you do? Do you tolerate all hadith or not? If yes, I can point you to hadith where women are compared to dogs or monkeys (Bukhari 8/102 and Hanbel 4/86)... Is that OK with you? Or you choose which ones to accept and which not to?

You just share that hadith here, not the number. By the way what is this hanbel ? I look into those sayings of Prophets which are authentic, i.e have right chain of narrators.

Bring up the verse please

�So ask of those who know the Scripture, if you know not� [al-Nahl 16:43].

How can I trust a woman if... "Women are naturally, morally and religiously defective".(Bukhary

This is what happens when you don't study from those who possess more knowledge than yours.Hope atleast now you realise the need of studying from those who spent there lives in gaining knowledge sincerly. Shall share a link insha Allah.

Don't bring up new topics inless old ones are solved. Else we may get messed up

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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."

Posted By: haris30432
Date Posted: 03 March 2010 at 5:25am

Peace,

Its true that i have a different understanding of Islam than many in this forum.However i do take offence in any form or level of mockery of GOD, the Quran and his messengers.There fore,dear brother, i would like to request you to double check some of your posts as it slightly has a tone of mockery.Plus if you do not consider yourself a muslim yet,i would request you to kindly be more respectful in ur questions.And even though i disagree with Seekshidayath on many issues,i agree with her opinion that this discussion may be better done in the non-muslims section.

Peace :)

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ONE GOD ONE SOURCE OF LAW!

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 03 March 2010 at 8:28pm

seekshadiyath wrote:

Originally posted by seekshidayath

Its not idolising at all. To celebrate birthday - is it idolising ? What if, christians celebrate b'day of christ ? How do you connect them and state celebratin the b'day of Prophet Muhammad {sallal lahu alayhi wasallam} is wrong ? When you wish my answers from Qur'an, i also expect you to support your answer by Qur'an and sunnah . Also, why is it taking him as God when we just celebrate b'day?

I found this link http://muttaqun.com/mawlid.html, you have to understand I wasn't muslim for long and I do not know quran well, and yet you want me to support it with verses from it. Well I can always copy and paste, so here it is:

"The Messenger (Muhammad) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in All�h, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)." 2:285,

"Say (O Muslims), "We believe in All�h and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibr�him (Abraham), Ism�'il (Ishmael), Ish�que (Isaac), Ya'q�b (Jacob), and to Al-Asb�t [the twelve sons of Ya'q�b (Jacob), and that which has been given to M�sa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Isl�m)." 2:136,

"And those who believe in All�h and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them (Messengers), We shall give them their rewards, and All�h is Ever OftForgiving, Most Merciful".4:152,

"Say (O Muhammad ): "We believe in All�h and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibr�him (Abraham), Ism�'il (Ishmael), Ish�que (Isaac), Ya'q�b (Jacob) and Al-Asb�t [the twelve sons of Ya'q�b (Jacob)> and what was given to M�sa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (All�h) we have submitted (in Isl�m)."3:84

So, now then, we say to those who insist on celebrating the Prophet's birthday.... with clear proof not to distinguish between the Prophets... why don't you celebrate ALL the Prophet's birthday's? Like Jesus'? You can do it on Dec. 25th or pick another date if you want. Oh, I see, you know better than to celebrate Jesus' birthday?? Maybe the reasons you shouldn't be celebrating Jesus' birthday, are the same reasons not to celebrate Muhammad's birthday?" Nicely said.

We offer out put him in every prayer {in your words}, as Allah stated us in Qur'an to send blessings over him, as Allah and angels also send him. Is it taking Prophet as God?

As far as I know it was Muhammad who thought muslims how to pray, well do you say that's what he thought them to say? Or did he himself said this "I testify that there is no god but Allah and I testify that Mohammed (in his case it would be "I am your slave and messenger") is His slave and messenger. O Allah, bless Mohammed (in his case "bless me and my family") and his family as You blessed Ibrahim and his family. Yes, no? And how come we don’t include any other prophet in our prayers?

So, its time to move your thread at non-muslims section. Now you don't even take Qur'an as word of God. When you have no answers you simply state its outdated. Whats the use of these discussions?

Sure, you can move this thread anywhere you want, I don't really mind. As of outdated, it does seem like it, here's sample - verses of slavery, and as far as I know it's abolished in every western society (yeah, for some reason muslims try so hard to come to any cuffir european country from islamic countries where living should be super great since they enforce islamic law) unlike in some muslim societies, where it still flourishes. Here: "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"(33:50), is this Ok with you? I mean let's say that it's not outdated, that means that slavery is ok, right? In fact any muslim who takes this verse as it is could go and get a slave?

These kind of derivings come, when we try to understand by our own. So try to reach men of understanding, sincerly.

You still insist I need someone to tell me how I should understand a verse in Quran? Why is it stated then that "This (the Qur’an) is clear insight for humanity and guidance and mercy for people with certainty 45:20 or "And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?54:17. Are you trying to say it's written in code and we need someone to decode it? Why would God do that if He wants to guide us?

You just share that hadith here, not the number. By the way what is this hanbel? I look into those sayings of Prophets which are authentic, i.e have right chain of narrators.

Sure. Enen some extra ones. Here you go:
"If a monkey, a black dog or a woman passes in front of a praying person, his prayer is nullified." (Bukhary 8/102; Hanbel 4/86). Note, if a pig passes - it's ok
"Bad luck is in the woman, the horse, and the home" (Bukhary 76/53).
"The prophet gave permission to kill children and women in war" (Bukhari, Jihad/146; Ebu Davud 113).
"Woman was created from rib so she will always remain crooked. Leave her crooked as she is." (Beginning of creation, Bukhari, vol.2, p.251).
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a women equal to half that of a man?" The women said "yes". He said "This is because of the deficiency of the women's mind." Sahih Bukhari 3:48:826

“So ask of those who know the Scripture, if you know not”

Verse 2:2
Yusuf Ali:     This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear God
Zohurul Hoque:     This Scripture, no doubt in it, is a Guidance for the reverent:
T. J. Irving:     This is the Book which contains no doubt; it means guidance for those who do their duty
T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:     This is the Book (the Qur'�n), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaq�n [the pious and righteous persons who fear All�h much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love All�h much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)>.
M. Pickthall:     This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil).
M.H. Shakir:     This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).

Guess there were people that couldn't read or didn't know quran. That simple. Scripture meaning quran.

This is what happens when you don't study from those who possess more knowledge than yours.Hope atleast now you realise the need of studying from those who spent there lives in gaining knowledge sincerly. Shall share a link insha Allah.

Please do.

Don't bring up new topics inless old ones are solved. Else we may get messed up.

Sure.

P.S. I thought I would share this too:

"I am the most honorable messenger, on the day of the judgment only I will think of my people" (Bukhary 97/36).
"Do not make any distinction among the messengers; I am not even better than Jonah" (Bukhary 65/4,5; Hanbel 1/205,242,440).
"The parchment that the verse about stoning to death for adultery was written on was eaten and abrogated by a goat." (Ibni Majah 36/1944; Ibni Hanbal 3/61; 5/131,132,183; 6/269).
"The punishment for cutting the fingers of a woman is to pay her: 10 camels for one finger, 20 camels for two fingers, 30 camels for three fingers, and 20 (twenty) camels for four fingers" (Hanbel 2/182; Muvatta 43/11).
"The prophet said:'Do not write anything from me except the Quran. Whoever wrote, must destroy it" (Muslim, Zuhd 72; Hanbel 3/12,21,39).
"The prophet ordered Amr Ibn As to write everything that he speaks" (Hanbel 2/162).
"Omar said: Quran is enough for us, do not write anything from the prophet" (Bukhary, Jihad 176, Gizya 6, Ilim 49, Marza 17, Megazi 83, Itisam 26; Muslim, Vasiyya 20,21,22).
"The Prophet never urinated in standing position" (Hanbel 6/136,192,213).
"The prophet urinated in standing position" (Bukhary 4/60,62).
"Do not eat and drink with your left hand, because Satan eats and drinks with the left hand" (Hanbel 2/8,33). How convenient for lefties , but what's the fuss, they only make up 15-25% of the population.

And there are many more..

P.P.S. All written above wasn't approved for some reason. Is there some kind of a censorship on this board and you only approve of what you find suitable for yourself?

haris30432 wrote:

Peace,

�

Its true that i have a different understanding of Islam than many in this forum. However i do take offence in any form or level of mockery of GOD,�the Quran and his messengers.There fore,dear brother, i would like to request you to double check some of your posts as it slightly has a tone of mockery.

If you feel like that, I am sorry, cause I am not making fun of any religion. I find some stuff silly, hard to understand, sure, but not in any way I am trying to mock the religion. Yeah, in some matters I could be slightly sarcastic towards a person..

Plus if you do not consider yourself a muslim yet,i would request you to kindly be more respectful in ur questions.And even though i disagree with Seekshidayath on many issues,i agree with her opinion that this discussion may be better done in the non-muslims section.

I don't consider myself muslim no more. I mean I believe there's One God, I try to avoid pork, yeah. But I am not sure where I stand on islam at the moment, (LOTS of QUESTIONS, trust me), so I don't mind moving this thread.

Peace :)

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 03 March 2010 at 9:01pm

seekshidayath wrote:

7. Now, what if there is a dispute between scholars who has sound knowledge, wisdom and sincerity? Well, for a common person, he has to be sincere in obeying Allah and His messenger and should do his best to get most right opinion. If in this process he err or the scholars to whom he follows make mistake, the person cannot be responsible.

We've talked about it

I go to see a scholar if I am troubled with something myself and can't resolve it on my own. How can I figure which one of these scholars is right since they are "learned people" not me. If a scholar makes something that is sin acceptable, then it's his sin, not mine. Beautiful.

8. Proof! well it is simply established by the last�verse in Surah Baqarah "On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray:) "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."

I stumbled upon an article not so long ago... So why are there people that commit suicide? That would be only a way out if a person's sure there's no way he/she could continue with their problems, right? I mean the reason you could take your own life if you do believe you can't bear it no more, right?

Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 04 March 2010 at 2:00am

Don;t think calvindamenace is trying to offend anyone here, least of all GOd or the Qur'an. He wants answers thats all.
THere can really only be one answer to a question, and he's not getting that.
If the answers vary then he is bound to be suspicious about things. I would to. Actually I have been :) NOt anymore though. Am in a really nice place now, thanks to all muslims everywhere.

:D

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some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:22am

Oh!! dear brother Calv!!

may Allah guide me and you and all Muslims into the truth!!

I am trying to help as well, but I do not feel embarrassed to say.. I am not a scholar and do not have the answers for soooo mnay questions.. but let me add what i know about some of your questions as i heard it from a scholar..

first: I am soooo proud of you and your wide knowledge about hadith and it makes me feel so sure Allah is guiding you to more of his true religion and raising your rank, in sha Allah.

"I am the most honorable messenger, on the day of the judgment only I will think of my people" (Bukhary 97/36).
"Do not make any distinction among the messengers; I am not even better than Jonah" (Bukhary 65/4,5; Hanbel 1/205,242,440).

The scholars of hadiths answer you question about this as some people ask this like you:

they said: in case some people want to lower the position of the prophets peace be upon them, or abuse any other prophet saying he is lower positions tell him this hadith: Do not make any distinction among the messengers; I am not even better than Jonah.

But in case someone wants to abuse the prophet's high position or deny it, you will need this hadith: "I am the most honorable messenger, on the day of the judgment only I will think of my people"

That is why dear brother we need to know more about the events and be soooo knowledgeable when we talk about hadith,, because the hadith and even the aya is not separated form the event and the time to use it.

It is hadith+ an event+ the time to use it.

that is why, my dear brother, the ignorant come and say.. hey we got a contradiction because they do not understand.

-------------
And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:23am

"The punishment for cutting the fingers of a woman is to pay her: 10 camels for one finger, 20 camels for two fingers, 30 camels for three fingers, and 20 (twenty) camels for four fingers" (Hanbel 2/182; Muvatta 43/11).

I do not have the answer for this. I hope someone else can help.

-------------
And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:34am

"The prophet said:'Do not write anything from me except the Quran. Whoever wrote, must destroy it" (Muslim, Zuhd 72; Hanbel 3/12,21,39).
"The prophet ordered Amr Ibn As to write everything that he speaks" (Hanbel 2/162).

Brother again here you need the event, the time and purpose to study a certain hadith. The first hadith was in the in the beginning of Islam.. not many people know Quraan and if the hadith is written it might be mixed with Quraan and be confusing at that time.. then after that, it was fine cause many people knew Quraan very well..

"Omar said: Quran is enough for us, do not write anything from the prophet" (Bukhary, Jihad 176, Gizya 6, Ilim 49, Marza 17, Megazi 83, Itisam 26; Muslim, Vasiyya 20,21,22).

Yeah, dear brother, Umar RAA, said saw because this happened when the prophet peace be upon him was on the bed and before his death. he was so sick and people were fighting in front of him, when he said, let me write something for you. At that time. Umar, RAA, felt the mercy on the prophet, pace be upon him because he was sick and wanted to make them stop fighting so that he reminded them of Quraan. So that again you need to know the time a certain hadith is said.

-------------
And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:42am

"The Prophet never urinated in standing position" (Hanbel 6/136,192,213).
"The prophet urinated in standing position" (Bukhary 4/60,62).

The prophet, peace be upon him had a pain in his knee which is hard for him to sit with, so that he urinated standing.

-------------
And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: Full of Hopes
Date Posted: 04 March 2010 at 9:46am

"Do not eat and drink with your left hand, because Satan eats and drinks with the left hand" (Hanbel 2/8,33). How convenient for lefties , but what's the fuss, they only make up 15-25% of the population.

Please explain your question, I do not understand it here..
But when someone wants to please Allah, Allah makes it soo easy for him. I know many lefties who are so happy with eating with their right hands. Even some lefties like to practice doing many other things with their right hands, some can write and draw even.. it is not hard..

-------------
And whoever seeks a religion other than Isl�m, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers(3:85)

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 05 March 2010 at 6:55pm

Full of Hopes wrote:

�

"I am the most honorable messenger, on the day of the judgment only I will think of my people" (Bukhary 97/36).

First of all thanks for tthe answer, but as far as I see it totally contradicts with quran cause it stated clearly in it that there's no distinction between prophets. Here are verses:

"The Messenger (Muhammad) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in All�h, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers" - and they say, "We hear, and we obey. (We seek) Your Forgiveness, our Lord, and to You is the return (of all)." 2:285

"Say (O Muslims), "We believe in All�h and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibr�him (Abraham), Ism�'il (Ishmael), Ish�que (Isaac), Ya'q�b (Jacob), and to Al-Asb�t [the twelve sons of Ya'q�b (Jacob), and that which has been given to M�sa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Isl�m)." 2:136

"Do not make any distinction among the messengers; I am not even better than Jonah" (Bukhary 65/4,5; Hanbel 1/205,242,440).

�

�The scholars of hadiths answer you question about this as some people ask this like you:

�they said: in case some people want to lower the position of the prophets peace be upon them, or abuse any other prophet saying he is lower positions tell him this hadith: Do not make any distinction among the messengers; I am not even better than Jonah.

Trust me, this verse of hadith is not about any other prophet but Muhammad. So, what other prophets are you trying to connect to it?

�

�But in case someone wants to abuse the prophet's high position or deny it, you will need this hadith: "I am the most honorable messenger, on the day of the judgment only I will think of my people"

What high position? Again it contradicts quran. There is no distinction between them. There are no "high" or "low" prophets, don't you understand?

�

�That is why dear brother we need to know more about the events and be soooo knowledgeable when� we talk about hadith,, because the hadith and even the aya is not separated form the event and the time to use it.

�

It is hadith+ an event+ the time to use it.

�

�that is why, my dear brother, the ignorant come and say.. hey we got a contradiction because they do not understand.

�

Pretty conviniet to have two explanations I tell you. And it's even better to have 'em stated as correct ones at the same time, even that they both contradict each other. Can it get any better for a scholar?

Posted By: calvindamenace
Date Posted: 05 March 2010 at 7:12pm

Full of Hopes wrote:

�"Do not eat and drink with your left hand, because Satan eats and drinks with the left hand" (Hanbel 2/8,33). How convenient for lefties , but what's the fuss, they only make up 15-25% of the population.

�

�Please explain your question, I do not understand it here..
� But when someone wants to please Allah, Allah makes it soo easy for him. I know many lefties who are so happy with eating with their right hands. Even some lefties like to practice doing many other things with their right hands, some can write and draw even.. it is not hard..

�

It wasn't a question, it was more of a statement. It's just wierd that God made 'em lefthanded and makes 'em eat with a right hand

, but I think I already know what you gonna answer me on this one - it's how God tries 'em out, right? To see if they are good folowers.. I think it's more of a custom.. see when when toilet paper wasn't invented yet, people used different stuff to clean themselves, "in India and other middle eastern countries, even today, the preferred method is to wipe using nothing but your left hand and water and then of course wash your hand well afterward and don’t handle any food or the like with your left hand; as such, people who are left handed tend to be forced to become right handed early on in those regions." So, maybe that's why you shouldn't eat with left hand?