About Islamic Scholarship
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: General Islamic Matter
Forum Description: Discuss Islamic matters/issues that not covered by other sub catagories
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16327
Printed Date: 26 November 2024 at 2:21pm
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Topic: About Islamic Scholarship
Posted By: martha
Subject: About Islamic Scholarship
Date Posted: 08 February 2010 at 11:15am
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Salams,
I have a question. What denotes a scholar? DO they get formal training? ANd why is it that often they do not agree with eachother's views? I really am trying to understand these things because many brothers and sisters debate and yet do not agree amongst themselves..depending on which scholar they have listened to. Are all scholars trustworthy? I have been kept very sheltered away from these things.I was never allowed to attend anything when I was married.  ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |
Replies:
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 08 February 2010 at 11:21am
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Assalamu Alaikum sister Martha,
Your question is valid, and I will move it to the General Islamic Matter; the thread is forum_posts.asp?TID=16327 - About Islamic Scholarship . I may also take part in that thread later, insha Allah.
Peace ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 08 February 2010 at 11:30am
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Walaikum assalam brother Peacemaker,
I look forward to the input :) ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 08 February 2010 at 7:04pm
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One who has reached the level of mujtahid, and is recognized as such by his peers, in other words, known as a scholar by other scholars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soCjHHevSN4&feature=related - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soCjHHevSN4&feature=related
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Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 12:59am
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Salams abuayisha, The link was good :) '...lop-sided fatwa's..' Not so good then :( ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 4:31am
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Who Is a Scholar? http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar&cid=1119503546382 - http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar&cid=1119503546382 ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 4:32am
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What actually makes one a scholar?
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=7152&CATE=1425 - http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=7152&CATE=1425 ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 4:35am
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The Ethics of Disagreement in Islam: Knowledge and Refinement
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=12&CATE=30 - http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=12&CATE=30 ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 6:20am
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Assalam alaikum peacemaker, Many thanks for the above links. They were most illuminating. And thank you for the time you put into finding them. Following Islam correctly (as fas as possible) is my main aim. It is why I ask so many questions. But I am still concerned that notible scholars varied with their teachings. Maalik ibn Anas said:- 'This particular knowledge is a matter of religion. Be careful in choosing who to learn from. I have met more than 70 people who often quoted the Prophets statements accurately close to those pillars of his mosque. You could trust any of them with the state treasury and you would be sure that he would discharge his trust most meticulously. BUt I did not take anything from them because they were not of the scholarly type' then you have this version of the same:- 'This knowledge is religion itself. Be careful from whom you acquire your religion. I know of seventy people who, while pointing to the Prophet's mosque, would say: `The Messenger of God, may God bless him and grant him peace, said while at these very columns . . . ,' but I have never believed anything they said. They were people who would prove to be honest if they were to be entrusted with the public treasury, but when it comes to academic honesty they would fail to live up to that expectation. Thus we avoided consulting these people until Ibn Shihaab came to us and we started to crowd at his door seeking reliable knowledge. [Al Intiqaa', 16.] So which from the above 2 quotes of Maalik's is the original, or does it not matter? (Obviously he was warning others who they listened to). We read in the sunni link of Maalik that ' He was one of the pioneers in establishing the science of hadeeth reporting and making juristic verdicts. The hadeeth which he collected and the verdicts he made are contained in his book Al Muwattaa', in which he compiled the reliable ahaadeeth known to the people of the Hijaz, the sayings of the Companions, and the verdicts of the second generation of Muslims which he verified.' Then why did he say ? (when the khaleefah al Mansoor wanted to have several copies made of the Al Muwattaa' and distributed to the new Muslim regions with the intention of getting people to follow its line and thus put an end to differences and dissension) 'People [in various parts of the Muslim lands] already possess a body of knowledge based on reports they have received and sayings of the Prophet they have heard prior to this. Each group of people acts according to what came to it first, and so there are variations in people's practices. Leave the people of each region to follow what they themselves choose. Was he condoning other muslim sects with that statement? I can understand the latter part of the following statement and is my point behind the thread :- Differences of opinion among genuine scholars were, to begin with, a source of blessing which helped develop Islamic jurisprudence, establish the relevance of Islam to changing circumstances, and safeguard public welfare. Later, differences of opinion became one of the most critical and dangerous factors contributing to disunity and internecine strife among Muslims. Indeed it became a scourge which dissipated much of the energies and potential of the Muslim Ummah; it caused people to become engrossed in matters which did not deserve the attention given to them. Perhaps I should have asked the question 'what constitutes a sect and who are the saved sect?' If sects are so different, interpretation of the hadiths will be different. Not all sects can be correct can they? ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 6:41pm
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Walaikum Salam Martha, Jazak Allah Khair, sister, for visiting those links and studying the references. Could you please provide the reference of the quoted hadith �Maalik ibn Anas said . . . .� The Sunnipath link you refer to shows how meticulous Imam Maalik was in collection and preservation of the Sunnah. Despite that effort, he advised khaleefah not to send that work to other places. The point was people were already following the prophetic sunnah in those places, and he felt no apparent need to change that status quo. The difference of opinion here was, defacto, a blessing for the ummah. One of the famous scholars of hadith who complied hadiths carefully is Imam Bukhary who selected 2,761 hadith from out of 600, 000 he complied and reported in his book sahiah-al-Bukhary. With regards to the saved sect, Muslims are advised not to become divided in sects. We should refer to Qur�an and Sunnah to see what is expected of us Muslims: "�(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination." Qur�an 4: 59 And in the Prophet�s last sermon, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: �O People, no Prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Qur�an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.� So, the barometer, as we see it, is the Qur�an and Sunnah that determines who is the saved one. And Allah knows the best. Scholars agree on all major issues, and they also agree on most of the issues. There are some issues where they have differing opinions, but those issues are minor ones. And those differences could also be interpreted as the blessing for the ummah as it does provide the flexibility in applying the respective ruling. Sects are created because of ignorance of Islam, and not because of Islam. May Allah guide us all. Peace ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 5:03am
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Salams peacemaker,
I found the quoted hadith of Maalik at this link. http://www.muslimheritage.com/day_life/default.cfm? ArticleID=471&Oldpage=2 I am trying to understand then which quoted hadiths from whom I should follow. :( And it is true that there should be no sects. And the Prophet (pbuh) in his last sermon (as you have put in your post) clearly says that no prophet or apostle will come after him.. So, I am correct to follow the sunni path then. All others are wrong. Is this what you are saying? I don't want to be following a wrong sect because of ignorance of those in Islam. It would be a waste of time to do so wouldn't it. ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 15 February 2010 at 7:23pm
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Assalamu Alaikum, Sister Martha, the statement of Imam Malik ibn Anas in both cases (there is some minor difference in words) refers to the fact that the knowledge and educational caliber of the teacher (and the narrator of the story or event as is the case here) should be given due importance ("Be careful in choosing whom to learn from"). For example, a person, even though trustworthy but lacking relevant academic qualification, would not meet the criteria of a teacher (or a narrator in this context).
The statement also demonstrates that Imam Malik adopted a very thorough approach (and by that extension early Muslims followed the similar pattern) in determining the methodologies of hadith collection and preservation. As to what you should follow (or which sect is the right one), I think the best way is to seek knowledge from the best sources. To begin with, start learning the Qur�an. And there would be times when you would require the hadith to know the details. "Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much."
Qur'an 33:21
If possible, visit the nearest mosque or Islamic center where you may learn how to offer prayer. Establish salat (prayer) gradually.
Here is a link as to how to offer prayers, but it is better if someone may explain it to you in person:
http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/salat/salat9.asp - http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/salat/salat9.asp
When you have time, visit the prominent Web sites such as:
And please ask any questions you may have. This forum and the Web site is a great blessing of Allah. Someone here would, insha Allah, answer your queries. And if there is a question that is not appropriately addressed here, there are abundant scholarly resources, and you would be directed to that, insha Allah. May Allah bless you with the knowledge and wisdom of Islam. May Allah guide us all. Peace P.S. The Web site reference you have provided has very good content, Masha Allah. Jazak Allah Khair. ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 2:04pm
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Asalaam alaikum peacemaker,
Brother, I am SO grateful for the help you have given me. But I am still not any clearer than before. If I was Sunni then I would follow Sunni scholars, if I was Shia then I would follow Shia scholars. That does not make sense. The prophet(pbuh) said there should be no sects. THe Quran clearly says there should be no sects. So then I am best to not declare myself as anything. And the hadiths were not written by Muhammed(pbuh)To follow the hadiths just because others tell me to would not be correct. I think it would be an insult to Allah to go against what the Quran teaches. As I cannot declare myself as anything, nor trust that anything comes from the correct source it would be better for me to read the Quran and learn from that only. I am not rejecting Islam in any way, but obviously I cannot say I am a muslim as I don't know where I belong. It is better I am known as a mere human being, and no longer as muslim. Anyway,this will be what people will say of me now. THat is fine. As they like. THank you so much though for your help. I must just rely on God and believe all will be OK. May Allah bless you for your efforts. ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 4:24pm
| Martha how about attending classes at your local masjid/Islamic Center? It is impossible to practice Islam without hadith. |
Posted By: martha
Date Posted: 21 February 2010 at 10:55pm
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abuayisha,
THere are no masjids to attend locally. THere are no trusting muslims locally. In fact since being in this new area I have not even seen a sister to speak to. I once saw an older brother at the local garbage dump lol. So that is it. NOt good is it. :( ------------- some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set |