Living in the states I had no help and 4 children. Tooooo much;of course the men come home too tired to do anything. Now i have 2  maids and a guard and gardner. Masha�llah, but with help comes problems.Sometimes i wish that they would all go away. Subhanallah we are never satisfied.

 Asalamu Alaykum

 Yes, it is nice to have the husbands to do some house work. But don't try to get them to clean when they are tired and just came from work becaus then things can get a bit ugly

Salaam

Jenni, I think so too that our job is more physically and may I add mentally hard just thinking about everything in the house and the kids and when the is a doctors appointment, or what to cook, or......... I could keep going.

True the husband goes to work and I respect how much he has to put up with just to put food on the table, but when he comes home he has nothing to worry about while the wife is usually still running around the house from the "kids", and house work (which never ever finishes). So even though the husband doesn't help around he should atleast appreciate what she is doing.

But, I am not talking about me just in general 'cause I see most of my friends that their husbands don't care or appreciate what they do.

My husband helps around sometimes, but I don't like to tell him to help me work in the house 'cause I do think that that is a females job, cooking maybe sometimes, kids definitly.

Peace

sis jenni,

Since when did the man stay at home and the woman go out to work? And since the woman is more sensitive and has more affection than the man (in which men are more stronger by controlling their feelings) it is more convincing that the woman is the home loving person the kids and husband come home to.

Yes, and since in Canada I know that it is much different thinking than the other countries. I did work not saying I am not with women working. I did't say that my husband doesn't help around the house (even though he does) but I never do ask him too. It just seems weird to me personally. And that is my point of view, a part of my personallity. Sorry if I disappoint you but thats ME!

Peace

Salam --

The muslim husband should help out, Islam recognizes that a wife needs time for herself as well -- the husband being able to help during the week will provide that time for her. But what is the key to getting your husband to help out if he not inclined too?

MayPB

Husbands helping out? Yes, they should, its not exactly going to hurt them  

If you're going to share a life to together, live in one house and maybe kids, then isn't it fair that both share the household tasks? and swap occassionally also?

Jenni wrote: Rose, that is true. But it is up to them to be nurturing and loving fathers and to make sure thier wife is happy, well rested and has time to care for her health and own needs. That way everyone in the family is well cared for, not just the husband. Peace..

Yes jenni, "please read what I write carefully".

I am very sensitive and LOVE to get as much attention as possible by my husband.

Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

Jenni stated: �And in wealthier Muslim countries and even in Pakistan where my Husband is from upper middle class women do basically no housework and have a fulltime maid and gardener.�

Dear Rose,

I just read your post entitled �blessed�, and it made me ponder how even in a rich country (as Jenni has pointed out above) there are � maids - who I presume are expected to (do the) work (of a housewife), as well as raise and look after her own children.

My question is - Is it fair to just pass on the work we don�t feel like doing, when the consequence of that action leads to doubling someone else�s workload?  

Angel stated: 

�Husbands helping out? Yes, they should, its not exactly going to hurt them  

If you're going to share a life to together, live in one house and maybe kids, then isn't it fair that both share the household tasks? and swap occassionally also?�

And of course Angel�.. I agree husbands have a duty to help out, and yes nothing wrong with spicing up the mundane, by alternating tasks. Excuse me if I am been somewhat idealistic, but if you love your partner wouldn�t you take satisfaction in pleasing them?    

Salaam,

well wrote: My question is - Is it fair to just pass on the work we don�t feel like doing, when the consequence of that action leads to doubling someone else�s workload?

No, of coarse not you dont tell someone to do this job just 'cause you don't feel like doing it. As couples living together both, the man and woman, are sharing everything and both want whats best for their family, future, kids,....

well wrote: Excuse me if I am been somewhat idealistic, but if you love your partner wouldn�t you take satisfaction in pleasing them?

Thats what I think too, and that goes for the husband too.

TREAT SOMEONE THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE TREATED

Peace

 

-------------
A thorn defends the rose,harming only those who would steal the blossom

thanks for your reply.....

if you would be kind enough, i am interested in your opinion on the issue of the 'maid', who is a woman who has to do her own housework as well as another woman�s (housework).

if it is not right for a husband to expect his wife to do all the housework, is it right for the people (woman) employing a maid, to expect that maid to double her workload, merely because they have more money than her?

peace.....

from someone seeking equality

�Well, in Pakistan if people like my husbands family didn't hire maids and pay them, give them fabric for clothes and pay for thier kids uniforms and books for school they would have no food and no money. That is the reality.�

Yes a reality created by whom?

It seems men are not getting paid enough money, to be able to support their wives (so that they do not need to work), maybe that�s because certain people reward themselves ludicrously high wages, at the expense of the less powerful & well off. 

Sorry if I have misunderstood what you have said, but your comments on how much happier etc. women are who are getting help with the housework (from a maid), for me only illustrates how those women have placed their (trust &) contentment in a (luxurious) worldly existence (and not Allah {SWT} and the Hereafter).

�And the men don't feel cheated because thier wife is spending all of her time scrubbing toilets and floors.�

I believe every woman/man should accept his/her duties (within their own household). There may not be many poor people at this forum, but from a poor persons perspective, a rich person saying - because I have money, I am now above doing housework, better hire someone less �well off� than me�.. Is naught but scorn of the greatest kind�..

If you can�t see that, and how people who drive for such luxuries create an ever greater gap between rich and poor, then the world is certainly only going to become an uglier place.

Salaam,

well wrote:   if you would be kind enough, i am interested in your opinion on the issue of the 'maid', who is a woman who has to do her own housework as well as another woman�s (housework).

Well, in my opinion I think if one is healthy and is capable of cleaning why would she want a maid. Just to sit around and watch someone go through her house as if it is hers. And take care of the kids and teach them her WAYS.

The only exception I think a woman would get a maid is when she is disable, and really can't take care of everything and needs a helping hand.

 

jenni wrote: They get to exercise,

house work is also exercise, I turn on the music and work at home, I don't realize it but I get work done faster.

  

jenni wrote:    I think in turn thier husbands are happier. And the men don't feel cheated because thier wife is spending all of her time scrubbing toilets and floors.

Yes and when you say most maids are young, wouldn't the woman be scared from her husband to cheat on her with the maid. (in which I have heard of is happening).

  

well wrote: I believe every woman/man should accept his/her duties (within their own household). There may not be many poor people at this forum, but from a poor persons perspective, a rich person saying - because I have money, I am now above doing housework, better hire someone less �well off� than me�.. Is naught but scorn of the greatest kind�..

 

   What money can do........

Peace

 

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A thorn defends the rose,harming only those who would steal the blossom

jenni wrote: She is not a maid, or slave or servant for her husband. If that is the role you want, thats fine

Please tell me where did I say that I like being a maid??

Assalaamu alaikum

Dear Jenni,

It�s clear that your husband is from a wealthy family; hence unless he suddenly becomes compassionate for the poor, he is naturally going to propagate a message similar to what you have brought. I assume this is (one of the reasons) why you liked him, and married him in the first place.

I can see that you have some resentment in the fact that, you are �forced� to stay at home and look after your kids (ie �I am sacrificing being at home for the kids, thats it. Otherwise I can go back to work and do more than just cook and clean.�).

This seems to me like you are resenting been a mother, and would rather compete with your husband in work (earning money). I don�t know if you have ever thought of this (and I do not have anything against women working), but maybe when you work, you take the job of another woman�s husband, and where does that leave her?

Regarding equality, naturally there are different grades in Jannah (& hence on earth also), I just wonder how people can have the cheek to preach - moderation & equality � when they quite clearly wish to hoard as much money as they are able (which is certainly not moderate nor equal). 

Narrated Hakim bin Hizam {RA}: I asked The Prophet {SAW} (for some money) and he gave me, and then again I asked and he gave me, and then again I asked him and he gave me and then said, �This wealth is (like) green and sweet (fruit), and whoever takes it without greed, Allah will bless it for him, but whoever takes it with greed, Allah will not bless it for him, and he will be like the one who eats but is never satisfied. And the upper hand is better than the lower (taking) hand.� [Sahih Al-Bukhari: Vol. 8: 448]

Many people are been denied even a wage, so is it fair that they should be discarded merely to support a small minorities luxury? If the poor are denied their basic necessities, as a result of a greedy few, then that few have certainly not perceived the message of moderation, equality - Islam�..

Narrated Abdullah {RA}: The Prophet {SAW} said, �Who among you considers the wealth of his heirs dearer to him than his own wealth?� They replied, �O Allah�s Messenger! There is no among us but loves his own wealth more.� The Prophet {SAW} said, �So his wealth is whatever he spends (in Allah�s cause) during his life (on good deeds), while the wealth of his heirs is whatever he leaves after his death.� (*) [Sahih Al-Bukhari: Vol. 8: 449]  

* What one spends during one�s life for Allah�s sake is what one really owns, because one will get permanent reward for that in the Hereafter.

In the above Hadith man is acceptant of the fact that, his own wealth (ie good deeds) is dearer to him than that of his heirs (his worldly possessions, that which he leaves behind), hence if a person comprehends the Hadith, they may realise the hoarding of worldly wealth is indeed a bad habit. So when will we realise that �real wealth�, is the purification of our spiritual health? When did the pursuit of worldly commodities - possessions, gain precedence over good deeds � true intentions? (Exert form one of my other posts)

Equality!

salam sisters,

I hate to say this, but i have 2 maids. My husband has forced them on me. Although, i don't like having them; i need them. I have masha�llah 7 children and sure to have more. My husbands family is big and i do all the cooking on Fridays( not the maids) Also i cook everyday and watch my children. To be honest there are lots of times that i wish i could send them home. As for my husband he never comes in contact with them. They both wear face covers Masha�llah. I don't feel spoiled because my husband has provided me with maids,he says that he wants lotttttssssssss of babies and that the responsibilities that i have with his family i need them. Masha�llah friday lunch is 10 chickens/ or 1 sheep. It takes 1 hour just to make salad/and wash the fruit for lunch. If a man can afford it/why not? If he can't than he needs to help out.

Bismillah,

I believe the easiest thing for everyone to do is to at least rinse off their own plates and glasses and put them in the sink or dishwasher.  Pick up trash, hang up wet towels, put dirty laundry where it goes, clean up after yourself as you walk through the home rather than leaving debris behind!

Wealth is a lifestyle I don't understand.  Why not have maids if you can afford them?  I have no good reason.  I can see both points of view.  However, I have personally known two women who were maids employed by wealthy Muslims who were one:  Physically abused, neglected and not paid; two, sexually assaulted by the less than human "man" of the house. 

When weddings are paid for, that sounds like real generosity.  If you employ people for generous pay which allows them to get the clothes, housing, and healtcare they need (as well as time to worship), that seems like a benefit to them and you.

For myself, although I have always been financially poor as an adult, I had a poorer woman offer to come live with me and cook and clean.   (The benefit to her would have been a place to live in safety, and I would teach her English, of course.)  But I could not accept her help even though I was pregnant and often ill and unable to clean or cook large meals.  I felt I would have been taking advantage of her.  This is just how I felt.    I found a home which could pay her instead.

I believe men and women should share work equally as much as both individuals are able to bear the load, whether it is outside or inside the home.  Working together would be lovely rather than each waiting for the other to fulfill his or her supposed duty. 

Salaam,

herjihad,  you have done a good thing about the lady and May Allah (swt) reward you for that.

you said" Working together would be lovely rather than each waiting for the other to fulfill his or her supposed duty."

exactly, I wouldn't wait for my husband to tell me to do something, I just do it. And also my husband doesn't need me always telling him do this and do that, he helps without me telling him. Both partners need to understand eachother and know when help is needed.

Peace

My sister is not Moslem but this is what happened to her..

She was 8 months pregnant. She asked her husband for help to do laundry (the laundry is downstairs). He said sure. So he takes the clothes and throws them down the stairs! I think that sometimes some just don't get it.   I grew up in a house where chores and things were just seen as something that needs to get done, no matter what the gender. Dishes, cleaning, moving the lawn etc. No, not much fun at times but necessary. As they say Just do it.

Assalamu alaikum,

Just a reminder:

1. We manage here an Islamic discussion board, thus all members are requested to maitain the deorum as per the standards of an Islamic cultural society. Any joke, or casual statement which the moderators find insensitive, may result in edition or deletion.

2. A generally pleasant demeanor and cordiality in language is requested during discussions.

10. We will not tolerate personal attacks on participants from ANY Community (personal attacks are defined as comments that reflect upon the person instead of their opinion). Furthermore, any insults intended to ANY religion or ANY prophet of God, or ANY holy scripture shall be removed.

Brother Zaman, your above post clearly contains a personal attack.   Let's all try harder to keep the conversations respectful.

Peace, ummziba.

Salaam,

"personal attacks are defined as comments that reflect upon the person instead of their opinion"

Yes sis ummziba, you are right, thanks for pointing that.  We know eachother now because of our comments, probably more than if we were to see eachother face to face.

Peace

Yes yes jenni...

You don't get it, do you?

Rose for you to stoop to his level says something about you as a woman.

ZamanH wrote: Jenni wrote: Salaam sisters, I was wondering how you all feel about your husbands helping around the house. Before I got married I made it very clear that I would not do all of the housework and child care myself and my husband agreed.  That is the reason, I feel sorry for your husband. You are too lazy or too inept. Either way, your husband should not have married you. Women from other cultures don't make such fuss.

Zaman you are wrong...you can't solve the problems from this perspective....

Bismillah,

Dear Jenni,  I disagree with some of your ideas, but a discussion board is where we exchange ideas, so please don't leave.  I also agree with a lot of your ideas and feel respect for your ability to express yourself.

ZAMAN HAS NOTHING WORTHWHILE TO CONTRIBUTE.  HE ADVOCATES TERROISM AND INSULTS OUR GOOD WOMEN.

herjihad wrote: Bismillah, Dear Jenni,  I disagree with some of your ideas, but a discussion board is where we exchange ideas, so please don't leave.  I also agree with a lot of your ideas and feel respect for your ability to express yourself. ZAMAN HAS NOTHING WORTHWHILE TO CONTRIBUTE.  HE ADVOCATES TERROISM AND INSULTS OUR GOOD WOMEN.

Oh I so agree with you about ZamanH! And he needs to remember there are men in hell too.

 When the Prophet Mohamed did not make slaves of the house out of his wives. When something needed mending he did it, remember? He did not call Aisha out of the other room to fix his article of clothing. But most men think the woman is only there to keep his house, have his kids and serve him. Granted not all men are like this but many are.

My husband will help me because we both work. Don't get me wrong, he is not just going to do it, I have to ask him first. I make sure it is only 2 things at a time because if you give someone a list of things to do it becomes overwhelming. But he will help out and he will even cook because he loves to.

I think the problem with men is how they were raised. If the mother raises her son to help her and respect her then he will help and respect his wife. Most women do not make the boys in a house do anything to help and that is where the problems start.

Sometimes I wonder why women get married at all. All the work is on their shoulders 24 hours a day.

Lameese

Jenni wrote: The problem is many men don't and even when their wife is ill or tired they don't help out without being begged or asked. I am sorry to say that many of my American or other ethnic friends husbands are far more hands on at home than my Muslim friends husbands. They just come home from work and don't move from the sofa(my husband is not like this). When we go to the park in the evening we see the chinese, americans and others teaching thier sons and daughters to roller skate, ride bikes, play sports and swim. Where are most of the Muslim dads? At home waiting for thier wives to serve them tea. This is not everyone, but most of the people around here. Peace

Jenni,

I have a friend that is married to a Jordanian and she has reverted to Islam too. Her husbands mother and father came to visit. The mother got up one morning and was throwing up blood, she is in poor health. Both her sons were yelling at her to cook their breakfast like she did back home. My friend called me crying, she was so upset that they did not even care that she was throwing up blood and they would not let her (my friend) make the breakfast. My friend then took her husband in another room and told him that his mother was sick and not to yell at her anymore to make the breakfast, he beat her until she was lying on the floor. There are a lot out here like this.

You are right not every man is like this but many are.

Lameese

 Bismillah,

Lamees, it is a hard thing, and many difficult steps to go through, but she needs to go report this abuse.  At least take pictures to have proof.  She need not act on it now.  Don't tell him she has pictures.  Give copies to a friend. 

In many places beaten women and children go to the top of list for housing.  Have her fill out an application just in case.  Tell her she doesn't have to act on it unless she feels like it when they offer her free housing.

I was and am influenced by my culture.  It is our jihad as Muslims to struggle against weakness and wrong behavior always.  If we have failed a hundred times, we might succeed on try 101.

Israfil wrote: Perhaps the behavior which you ladies mention is a cultural thing.... All men differ and all men act differently in acccordance to their culture how Zaman replies perhaps is in accordance to how he was raised. We are all products of our environments.

So, this means the Culture is an excuse to ignore the religion?

Lameese

Yay Lameese! You go Girl!

Kim...

well wrote: Angel stated:  �Husbands helping out? Yes, they should, its not exactly going to hurt them   If you're going to share a life to together, live in one house and maybe kids, then isn't it fair that both share the household tasks? and swap occassionally also?� And of course Angel�.. I agree husbands have a duty to help out, and yes nothing wrong with spicing up the mundane, by alternating tasks. Excuse me if I am been somewhat idealistic, but if you love your partner wouldn�t you take satisfaction in pleasing them?

Yes you are being idealistic

but if you love your partner wouldn't you take satisfaction in pleasing them ? Well, yes and no - Not to the point of babying them! The household belongs to both, both pitch in and take care of the house, not just one member, And if kids are around then when they are old enough then they will pitch in too.

Hi, Jennie pointed out to me that other day that in case of divorce, for example, in Islamic societies the man gets the house. 

Therefore the house really ONLY belongs to him.

So let HIM do all the cleaning. Or ask his wife to help (NOT do it all)

Kim...

Sister Henna,

Excellent post.

Assalaamu aliakum

There are many Ahadith illustrating how good a deed it is - to free a slave, I don�t believe there are any Ahadith stating that it is just (good) to keep slaves! I think you will find that Prophet Muhammad�s {SAW} wives never had maids; Are they not the mothers of all believing women, and an example for them (in deed)?  

Surah 33, Ahzab

28.        O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Say to your wives: If you desire the life of this world, and its glitter, Then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free in a handsome manner (divorce).

29.        But if you desire Allah and His Messenger, and the home of the Hereafter, then verily, Allah has prepared for Al­-Muhsinat (good-­doers) amongst you an enormous reward.

You do not follow the ways of any of the Prophet�s (or their wives) if you choose the luxuries of this world, at the cost of the poor (& the Hereafter).  

Henna stated: �He said (sav) he couldn't give her a maid at these moment because the "suffah"* was so poor even He (sav) couldn't find something to give them to eat.�

I am interested in the source of the above material? Meantime one thing I would like to point out is the kind heart of Prophet Muhammad {SAW} (A Muslim�s role model), as at least he realised that it is unjust to live in any kind of luxury, when the basic necessities of the community are/were not met.

So please justify your greed!     

Bismillah,

I like your post, Open.

Good post sister Jenni,

But perhaps saying: >>>>>The point is if a man has alot of money and doesn't want to help in the house he should provide a maid. If he is poor he should help his wife in the house, since it is his house to maintain<<<

However noble your intentions were we shouldn't justify laziness with help there is no justification for no help. If a man sees his wife doing all the work he should want to help as marriage is not one sided. If he is wealthy and he cares about the welfare of his wife and family he would also be the other half in this matter. If he is poor its the same thing. Because even if one has a lot of money and provides a maid he is still lazy and that does not provide a positive message anywa. Yes you have the maid but you still have a lazy husband. If you're poor you're forced to help because you are poor! Sister this example shouldn't justify laziness but I understood your whole point in that men should help their wives. However I put the emphasis on some men are lazy such as some women are lazy.

Even if a husband has a maid, it would be a good idea to help out from time to time when maid is off duty (i.e. unloading dishwasher) and ask children to help out as well. Children should see that their dads are empathetic to the needs of their mother in respect for time for herself.