Daniel’s religion
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Topic: Daniel’s religion
Posted By: herjihad
Subject: Daniel’s religion
Date Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:24am
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Bismillah, Daniel, I would like to know more about your faith. How do you personally practice your Judaism? How does it affect you and your wife and children in your everyday lives? ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Replies:
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 22 March 2005 at 9:46am
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That is indeed an interesting topic for me as well. Especially from a jewish perspective, I am totally ignorant as what do they beleive about God and how do they pray for Him. Is there any concept of "divine sonship" in judaism as well as someone referred me to some of the texts of OT having passages narrating divine sonship etc. Is it different than commonly found "children of God" phrases in OT. Waiting for good informations. Cheers!. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 7:03am
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Oh dear!!!
My mother sat in mourning for my sister and I when we were still Alive. My sister fell in love with a christian man and married him I heard from a reliable source that a hit was planned on the Muktah in Ramallah and snuck in with Uri Avnery and the other Nutters two months before Arafat died. Someone called my 78 year old mother and told her I was "having tea" with Arafat. She called me on my Cellular and confronted me from her old age home in Nathanya. I told her it was "Non sense we are as a matter of fact sharing a mango juice.....Hello? Mom Hello" She disowned me. That's not orthodox judaism that is my mother. Luckily Mom has Alzheimers so I'll be seeing her at the Passover Seder. More on this later I must clean for the sabbath or my wife will kill me... |
Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 8:23am
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Dear Danial, I am beginning to like your sense of humor and sensitivity towards life. Since all of you have come to this boards, I am beginning to like this place even better. Thanks to all of you who have joined this little group recently. A warm welcome to everyone! I lived with my husband and little daughter in Japan for 9 years. There, people are very much unaware of different cultures and religions. We had many problems explaining to our friends what food restrictions mean to us. Once we had a chance to meet a Jewish young man, who was from WashingtonDC. It was only by chance that we discovered he was facing the same problems as us with regards to food. He told me, you do not take meat and milk products together, which was a very new concept for me. I learnt many things about your religion from him. Most stikingly, I found the fundamentals similar to Islam. It would be a trip and further insight into your religion if you tell us more. [but dont get killed by your wife Peace, Nausheen ------------- <font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
]Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 12:28pm
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Es_Selam'un Aleykum ve Rahmetullahi ve Berakatuh, Daniel,welcome to islamicity and i believe you will love your stay, insh'Allah.I think you are the first Jew i came across in this board which i have been regularly visiting for more or less two years,a warm welcome from me to you!... My uncle's wife was also an Jew from Tel Aviv and she was my best friend till her turn back to Paris(my uncle is a little bit mule that she did not resist:))))....i remember her laugh to my uncle when their adhan begins and she was saying to him why you don't pray,you'll go to hell,lol!;i learnt so much things from her especially on French Kitchen,i miss her.... Daniel,please stay in the board and share your feelings ,you are an rare jewel for us;also we are ready to participating the words for your needs in the board. Wa Salaam, |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 1:46pm
Orthodox Judaism Some of this his is really going to surprise and or amuse most of you but it's all accurate. I studied in Yeshivah until I was 14 and my best childhood friend David Lazar was an Orthodox Rabbi. God is not given a persona in Orthodox Judaism. The very mention of his name is Taboo. Moses was not allowed to enter the Holy land for fear that he would be worshipped. He was buried in the dessert by Joshua alone see: book 5 Deuteronomy In Orthodox Judaism God is an abstraction. We are to follow and teach Ten basic rules. After that all the rest is ritual and Mitzvoth (deeds) similar to your Sakaat (the Joyful giving) We are less excited than you with generosity. Yeah I know, We have a reputation for being stingy. We get a lot of that 
We are supposed to give in secret so as not to humiliate or behold. Example Kashrut (Koshering) demands The outer edges of all orchards and fields are not harvested by the owners but left to the "Elements" At night they are gathered by those who are in need. It was really a cool religion before the Crusades and Hitler and Kahane At the mention of the one God in prayer we are to cover or close our eyes. so as to not imprint or associate the mention of this concept of god with a physical object. I noticed that Arabic Calligraphy is highly developed and that I almost never see other art forms in Muslim homes such as images or sculpture. My guess is that this is also an issue in Islam? -That Graven images and idols are avoided for fear that the object itself may become the object of worship. The God of Israel is an abstraction. All else is legend and folklore. In fact. Zionism is absolutely forbidden in Orthodox Judaism. By Jewish Orthodox law we aren't supposed to be here until the Messiah shows up on a white donkey following the end of days. We are all supposed to get an explanation then about everything. Until then we are supposed to figure out as much as we can on our own and treat each other well. Explanations are made up all the time but they are really for the sake of argument if not entertainment. The Cabbala is an intended pacifier for men tender, fearful and in the throws of midlife. You have to be married a father and over the age of 40 before you are allowed to open the Cabbala. Unless of course you are a Female rock star. Death is a mystery there is no mention, promise or description of a heaven or Paradise other than that given in the book of Genesis. That gig ended for humanity after Adam, Eve the snake and Apple fiasco. We are told to pay attention to our lives here in the "Olam" (Universe) and Four of its dimensions or corners God is said to occupy "All 4 and that which is beyond our understanding" Its just left like that. My Little Sister is Orthodox and holds a PhD in Astrophysics. This all makes sense to her because she's well, a rocket scientist. "The Bible states that God is Pan Dimensional So there." Having a genius little sister is my personal cross to bear So. According to orthodox Judaism, All that has to do with god is highly personal and officially conjecture. God is way beyond our jewish understanding. We may thank the one god for our lives and our bodies. We have ten instructions 5 about things spiritual and five regarding our dealings with other human beings. Divine son-ship? Nope. We are all the children of Abraham Isaac and Jacob According to the Torah book one Genesis we lost you guys when Sarah broomed Hagar and Ishmael. Ishmael or Heb: "Yishmah El" The name actually means "God will hear of this" Ain't that the truth. In Israeli culture the Military as you can imagine is a big deal. We were raised to be warriors from kindergarden. When you brazenly disobey a superior be it a parent a teacher an officer or an employer, you are said to "Sahm Berez". This literally means "Installing a faucet" Guess why. Hagar the mother of Yishmael was a beautiful young woman. Sarah upon the miraculous birth of her own son Isaac was a childless baron "hag". She named her child Isaac (Laughter) and sent Hagar and her boy to the dessert where they would have perished had the Angel Gabriel not found them in the wilderness and placed a berez (Heb: Berez- faucet or tap ) there into a wall of solid rock where they laid down in despair to give themselves to death. Abraham was said to have loved Ishmael and was said to be filled with so much resentment having to give up his son and young wife that when he was called to sacrifice Isaac not only did he agree but when the "Voice of god told him to stay his blade he had to be physically restrained by yet another angel of God. We are as ancient peoples the products in history or legend or metaphor of a Mother's Jealousy and a Father's failure to protect his own first born. Islam and Judaism are the possible bookends of a dysfunctional family. Orthodox Judaism recognizes this. |
AhmadJoyia wrote:Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 25 March 2005 at 4:09pm
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Bismillah,
Daniel, I would like to know more about your faith.� How do you personally practice your Judaism?� How does it affect you and your wife and children in your everyday lives? I'm a little Schizophrenic in that department. I resist the desire to demonstrate my faith at times because I feel that my religion has been stolen from me by Hooligans and politicians who know so very little about real spiritualism and true faith. My children and wife practice conservative Judaism we study a bit of Torah and eat kosher. That' means no pork or shellfish and the animals are slaughtered quickly and as painlessly as is possible. We are mostly vegitarian. I sometimes have to work on Shabat (the sabbath) I play piano with a Jazz trio at private parties for the various consulates in Hertzeliya There's this street there called Embassy row I've been in just about everyone of those houses over the years. Besides the money I get to hear what's really going on in the world by the apologists themselves which is not what we hear on the BBC and definitly not what you see or rather don't see on CNN. Also the food these people serve on break is simply to die for. I digress. We attend services more that I like to. Tonight is Purim a typical 1,2,3 Jewish holiday. 1 They tried to Kill us 2 We survived 3 Let's eat We got the victim thing down. This particular holiday isn't written up in the Bible the Prophets or the Ktuvim (Chronicles?) It's Purim. Not my Favorite holiday.It is the story of Ester, Haman, Mordechai and Ahashverosh. Intrigue corruption drunkeness ... Hmmm Come to think of it maybe it's not all that bad... |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 27 March 2005 at 10:05am
| Thanks Daniel, for your info and would definitely like to continue hearing more on this, especially on the topics like; Kind and types of religious books you have (Pentatouch or five books as usually they are named) and how do they differ from the OT (if at all they are different from OT). Also, which of them is considered revealed text of God and which one is the human accord of events that took place in history? Secondly, how much reliable these books are as far as their authenticiy is concerned in modern scholarly view? |
Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 27 March 2005 at 11:45am
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Daniel, You say above "Tonight is Purim a typical 1, 2, 3, Jewish holiday. 1 They tried to kill us. 2 We survived. 3 Let's eat. We got the victim thing down." First, your sense of humour is delicious! Second, from what I have seen on television and in magazines/newspapers/websites, this seems a very Jewish attitude. I am hoping that we Muslims can take note of this and be careful not to fall into this same trap ("We got the victim thing down."). Since 9/11 it is a fact that Muslims have been victims of misinformation about them and their faith, slanted media reports, 'Islamophobia', invasions of Muslim countries, hate mongering, and so on and so forth. Already you can see reports of Muslims laying blame, being apologists, and crying "poor us". It would be sad if the future saw Muslims saying and feeling about victimization the way our Jewish friends have come to do. God willing, we will stop feeling like victims of all this and start doing something positive to change the way things are. Perhaps our legacy could be more like:
And yes, please, let's do eat! Food for thought, don't you think? (And yes, pun intended!) Peace, ummziba.
------------- Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~ |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 29 March 2005 at 12:40pm
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[QUOTE=AhmadJoyia] Thanks Daniel, for your info and would definitely
like to continue hearing more on this, especially on the topics like; Kind and types of�religious books you have (Pentatouch or five books as usually they are named)�and how do they differ from the OT (if at all they are different from OT). Also, is concerned in modern scholarly view? [/ QUOTE] I had always assumed that the Torah aka The five books of Moses aka Pentatouch were the same for all religions. and that the consequtive Faiths continued on like Rocky ... 'Never actually read the Bible but I Give the movie a thumbs up... I have no Idea ...which of them is considered revealed text of God and which one is the human accord of events that took place in history? As to who wrote the narration- A mystery. The Ten Commandments are believed to be straight from God. Secondly, how much reliable these books are as far as their authenticiy. Hey it's the BIBLE. If it's not authentic then entire religions are going to be really dissapointed. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 30 March 2005 at 11:52am
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'Islamophobia', invasions of Muslim countries, hate mongering, and so
on and so forth.� Already you can see reports of Muslims laying blame, being apologists, and crying "poor us". It would be sad if the future saw Muslims saying and feeling about victimization the way our Jewish friends have come to do.� God willing, we will stop feeling like victims of all this and start doing something positive to change the way things are.� Perhaps our legacy could be more like: They tried to kill us. We stood together and fought back with intelligent words and deeds. Allahu akbar!� (God is greater!) There's something here that needs further thought before I answer. I was on Sabbatical in Pittsburg during 911 and I lived in a Muslim/Jewish neighborhood (we flock to each others resturaunts) Okay okay your resuraunts. The Arab anti Defamation league is doing its best but it should (if it hasn't already) solicit the help of the Jewish defamation league. The down side of the victim thing is that it leads to self righteousness and provides excuses to be selfish and brutal The upside is that if you play it right you are letting good people know what is going on and they will come to your defense. It Pittsburg I was a visiting mentor at the Carneige Jazz Workshop. We were all on "Mosque watch" after 911. While good people will always come to each others aid. The bad guys will always waste no time to find any excuse to mix it up. In America during WWII the Japanese were herded into concentration camps after Pearl Harbour. America can be a strange and humorless place in time of war. If I were Muslim I'd be out there doing P.R. like crazy. I find it hard to believe that everytime a shahid blows himself up in my moms super market or in a coffe shop where my 2 year old nephew is wounded in his stroller that this makes you rejoice. You can't do anything about my security and Its not your business to do so. In Israel my people are in charge and it is our duty to put ourselfs in harms way if neccesary to protect civilians from settlers and "unofficial" army engineer corp incursions into Palestine. We are sick by what has been done in our name. I am hardly alone in my beliefs and practice. Sharon has been forced to yeild to our demands. Our religions are not responsible for the acts of desperate people. They are manipulated by the truly evil or blamed by those ignorant. Please tell me if you dissagree with this. |
Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 30 March 2005 at 12:07pm
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Daniel, You said: "I find it hard to believe that everytime a shahid blows himself up in my moms super market or in a coffee shop where my 2 year old nephew is wounded in his stroller that this makes you rejoice." This is exactly the point I was trying to make. I don't rejoice, lots of Muslims don't rejoice, but some do. We need to change our way of thinking before we let the victim thing lead us to "self righteousness and provides excuses to be selfish and brutal." It is already happening! Many Muslims are also sick by what is being done in our names. That is why it is so important for dialogue, understanding and intelligent words and deeds! What a world we are living in. Peace, ummziba. ------------- Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~ |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 30 March 2005 at 1:41pm
| Amen |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 30 March 2005 at 7:04pm
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Quote from Daniel "As to who wrote the narration- A mystery. .... Hmm! it sounds like you are talking of mysterious authenticity of different books of Bible. Seems more interesting than I thought. Any clue, which one is more mysterious than the other. I mean, beside the Ten Commandments, which may not be more than 10 lines or call it 10 passages, what else is considered to be direct from God in the Whole Bible (OT)? |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 30 March 2005 at 10:32pm
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"what else is�considered to be direct from God in the Whole Bible (OT)?"
Actually it's all in the form of quotations Like.. "And god said, I am the Lord your god. You will have no other gods before me... etc. The Settlers site the Bible as the word of god which is in my opinion bonkers. It's a narration. All of it second hand. If you choose to beleive it it is a mattere of faith. They The Settlers/Kahanists have created a new religion that takes the OT as the literal word of god. The borders of Israel reach far into Palestine Lebanon and Jordan if you accept the parameters given in Book Five. These guys also run around Palestine wearing the latest automatic weapons, Prayer Shawls and "Tefilin" (little leather boxes with O T passages written in them, beating up Elderly Quakers and Palestinian Farmers alike within an inch of death when ever they run into them and find them alone. I have them on DVs which have found their way to the U.S. State department and the UN. Bullies are basically bewildered cowards and weasels. Only one in a thousand are true sociopaths with out conscience or mercy. I believe from my experience that we are mostly redeemable. Chomsky has a point about Hard wired behavior but I've been wonderfully suprised by the opposite occurring before my eyes. I could tell you stories that would convince you once and for all that Allah is indeed great and that there just have to be angels looking after us even though as a jew I don't believe in a personal God or angels. I have been looked after by powers that defy secular explainations. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 31 March 2005 at 3:46am
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Bismillah, We would love to hear stories that inspire our faith in Allah, SWT. I don't want to misquote Chomsky. I said that about the hardliners being hardwired! Thank you for your narration about your visit to Pittsburg. Allah, SWT, chooses who to give faith to, and who to deprive of it. And Allah, SWT, knows all of this and it was written and will be so, according to the principles of fate, Qadr, in the Qur'an. And I changed, so I know deep in my heart that people can change. I used to believe what Leon Uris wrote about Israel, and what I was taught in church. Now, I believe what Allah, SWT, has led me to believe in: Islaam. (And also I don't believe everything I read just because it's in print!) To answer the quesiton about the Bible from someone who used to study it a lot, many Christians believe that it is like Daniel said those settlers do: God's word with no variation accepted. More pragmatic Christians who know that this has been disproven accept it as a guidepost for their behavior. I was always taught that the first five books, the Pentateuch, were the same in Judaism as Christianity. However, my Catholic friend informed me that they are different in her faith. Catholicism has extra books that the Protestant faiths don't. Daniel, Do you know if the Jewish version of the Torah, the first five books, is the same as either the Catholic version or the Protestant version? ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 11 April 2005 at 3:11pm
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"Do you know if the Jewish version of the Torah, the first five books, is the same as either the Catholic version or the Protestant version?" Hi Herjihad, The OT is Identical for both Xtians and Jews. The King James version has a few amusing mistakes in translation. Michael Angelo's Moses was sculpted with horns as the result of one misstranslation. Moses came down from the mount with "Karnei or" (Rays of light) comming out of his head. Keren is singular for both Ray or Horn Karnie means (Rays of) Karnayim means horns. Oops. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 12 April 2005 at 8:07pm
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Do you mean a blind faith even though everyone knows its not the original one. How someone can put his trust on it and live a whole life by it? How can such a religion can even exist amoung wise people? I am totally surprised... May be there is something more to it. Either people don't know of it or probably they don't care about it and due to their common interests, just want to stick togather whatever is with them..... Definitely like to know more on it. Thanks anyway for your insights. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 13 April 2005 at 3:01am
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Ahmad,
I think that free will was granted to us for a reason. The Laws of Noah are laws that all agree on. The Laws of Moses are laws that we all agree on. These are the basic rules like the instructions you get with a new toaster. 1. For use with 110 volts Alternating current only. 2. Do not bathe or sleep with this toaster... Life for the religious person comes with a manual. There is a possiblility that after the initial basic instructions the manual does not fit precisely the needs of society today as with the old days in some cases this applies to 1967 |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 13 April 2005 at 4:57am
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I'm being really flippant here and I apologize if I've hurt anyone's
feelings. I just finished reading "Good Omens" It's sort of a Dante meets Monte Python kinda book. I'm still giggling.The plot is that the Anti Christ is mixed up at birth with another baby and is raised by a normal family. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 13 April 2005 at 6:45am
| I note what you have mentioned and rather appreciate. Another question now comes to my mind, is what is your opinion about Jesus being the true Prophet of God that He sent him to guide the lost sheep of Israel? Especially (I am assuming that you already differred on the christian's persepective about Jesus identity) with the Islamic perspective about Jesus. Blessings of Allah be on all of us. Cheers! |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 13 April 2005 at 11:18am
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Judaism has no mention or recollection of Jesus.
I like to think of Jesus as I do Louis Armstrong. A man who preached love, taught harmony in an entertaining and breathtakingly beautiful way. I can't imagine that he didn't exist since in my world neither are gone. I'm not joking here I think that as human beings we are capable of great things all on our own. Allah created us to see what we would do with the choices he gave us. Everything after the Ten Commandments I take as a suggestion. There is npo evidence of people wandering 40 years in the Sinai not so much as one artifact has been found. Hmmmmmm. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 13 April 2005 at 8:08pm
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So, you mean to say that after Moses, no prophet came in Judaism to guide them to the right path, the path of Moses from which they might had divereted. That is strange, especially once not only Quran but OT also mentions several of them e.g. Prophet Yayha (John the Baptist), Younis (Yohana) etc (many more whose names I can't recall to translate them in English) . Of course there is a difference between ordinary good people (like you said Louis Armstrong) and a good people like these Prophets. Quran says that most these Prophets got killed by their own people of Judaism. What do say about them especially with regard to the story of John the Baptist which (according to NT) was the last in this chain before Jesus and got the same fate in the hands of his own people? My second (or whatever the number is) question with regard to this is that "Is there any notion in the minds of Jews that since they are the chosen people of God, hence they would never enter hell?" If yes, from which evidence? I mean where is this promise of God with them? either in OT or any other book? |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 14 April 2005 at 2:02am
No mention of hell or heaven. a couple of angels in OT Book one but that's about it. No one bothers to explain where they came from and they are described as visitors/ strangers and that they are beautiful. Lot protects them in his home and offers to send his daughters out to the mob gathering outside his home in Sdom to protect these strangers. Lot's wife afterwards becomes heavily salted and the daughters do the wild thing with their dad. What a family. Abraham demonstrates early on the problems of loyalties to family and to our peers. What if they are rotten people? What happens then what do you do? Let God handle it? How many times do you say "Stand down" to one of your officers preparing to fire through Civilians caught between you and a (Yes) still armed Palestinian Policeman. He (the officer with pimples) keeps saying "You're mine Your mine..." In my experience you say nothing. You pull the barrel up 60 degrees and hit him just as hard as you possibly can 4 inches below his heart. That's Tikun Olam. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 14 April 2005 at 6:08am
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This is again new to me. But then what is the concept of life after death in Judaism especially without any concept of hell or heaven? And if there is no "life after death" then what is the purpose of this life on earth with Judaism? I think the more I am getting to know about it, the more I am getting confused about this so called "oldest monotheistic" religion on earth. Nevertheless your responses are amazingly different than what I thought before about Judaism, but ofcourse need to continue more on it. Thanks for your patience on my surprises and replies. |
Posted By: blond
Date Posted: 14 April 2005 at 6:16am
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I have heard that Moses' kabbalism (or esoteric knowledge laced with witchcraft) which he first learnt as a Pharoah in trainning (or Prince of Egypt), was reinforced by the teachings of his father-in-law, Jethro, the renowned Ethiopian magician. Moses adopted his Ten Commandments from the ancient 147 Egyptian laws called the ' Negative Confessions,' and gave the Hebrews credit for African customs, some already quite ancient during his time. One classic example was the adoption of the rite of circumcision, an Egyptian custom, thousands of years old by Moses' day. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 14 April 2005 at 1:26pm
Okay, This is why we don't even bother to convert people. Allah is the name Muslims give God when I talk to Muslims I refer to God as Allah. I enjoy this because in Judaism God is with out Name or image. We aren't given encouraged or even allowed to think about god as having a physical visual or aural image. At least not as a group. Death is something to be avoided and killing of any kind is absolutely forbidden. Why did my soldiers kill three Palestinian boys yesterday? Your guess is as good as mine. it has nothing to do with Judaism. It's not so much that there is no heaven or hell as much as they are irrelavent and unmentioned. The message is that life is temporary and precious we are to learn to behave well and do good deeds. We leave heaven if there is a heaven to God and Angels and concentrate on the here and now Story tellers and Children speak of heaven. Satan is only mentioned in the book of Job which is basically ancient hebrew literature. At five I was told that there was no heaven and it tore me up for a while. I miss so many people and it hurts my feelings to think that all they were and all they would have been is snuffed out forever. It's a problem in Judaism. Just when you thought that circumsision was the worse thing you'll ever experience they hit you with this. Hassidic Judaism is another story they've really got it made. they have an answer for everything and believe in more things than 9 Gay Southern Californians in a Navaho sweat lodge. How the...? I'm a musician I hear things |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 14 April 2005 at 1:46pm
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Blond Hi,
According to the OT that I was taught as a jew: 1.) Jethro was Druze 2.)The Cabbalah was thrown together thousands of years after Moses 3.) Abraham and God concocted Circumsision. It might have found it's way back to africa with the Menashe tribe after the dispersion Some Ethiopians claim Zion and an Ancient Jewish heritage. (In my opinion they can have it... Yes, My son is circumsised but I was conflicted about it... EDIT: NOTE: at this point I became mildly stuffy and rude and Blond I apologize . You didn't have that coming at all I was still dizzy with frustration over the resent news here in Israel and Rhemats expert version of Judaism. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 14 April 2005 at 4:12pm
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(I am assuming death of an human being. right?) But who said so and from where? Is it in OT, if not, then by Israel's state law? Secondly what about scraficial animals. why the ritual is necessary? Or why was it being practiced if not now?
Oh, really! Then what about the complete story of Adam, eve, and the satan? Isn't it in OT? Ok! then what do you mean by this statement. Judaism doesn't consider Satan an entity in the equation of life and death?
I really couldn't understand your problem description? Probably you mean to say there absence of the concept of 'hell' is a problem. But I tell you, you have put me in ever greater problem to understand what are you trying to convey. Then who is "they" to hit you to undergo circumsision. I don't understand your last sentence in here.
O really! so which Judaism have we been talking about all this long? Do they (the Hassidics) have anything to believe in the heaven and the hell. From where do they get their knowledge if not from OT? |
. I mean, What do we call that you have been describing.Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 14 April 2005 at 9:24pm
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Adam and Eve -people
The serpent- -a serpent (demon?) not Satan The laws of Noa (fail safe for the ten commandments) forbid the killing of animals as well The Hassidim are a new religion they claim the Lubavicha Rebbi to be the Messiah. The man is DEAD but they are still weaiting for him to get well. They get their beliefs from you and the christians. That's not a bad thing but they are what the world see's as being jews. They have great parties and they solve more problems than they make. In Israel they are not appreciated because they don't work and they don't serve. If you read the OT you see a gradual change in the character of god. God grows up from a childish jealous cranky sort of eye level entity to a more mature laid back sort of spiritual Parent. Allah stops smiting multitudes people and giving good advice. We all keep embellishing with tradition legend and writtings. What I am describing is Conservative and orthodox Judaisim. I rather thought the sweat loge comment would get a laugh but it was a bit over the line. I hope I haven't put you off asking questions. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 15 April 2005 at 1:56am
Hassids have an answer for EVERYTHING Example: The dent between your nose and your lip. Just before you are born an angel flicks a finger on you and knocks all the knowledge of heaven to the back of your mind. before you were born you, I, - all of us hang out in heaven for fourty days. just before that we were in another life on earth until we died and so on and so on. We don't learn so much as we REMEMBER. They got a million of these explainatioins and stories they are childlike and innocent for the most part. I think they are quaint. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 15 April 2005 at 5:43am
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[QUOTE=herjihad] Bismillah, We would love to hear stories that inspire our faith in Allah. [/QUOTE] I always seemed to be primed or warned before I step into an important or dangerous moment. When I act harshly or badly I am punished immediately and thouroughly to such an extent that my son Joey claims "Daddy has instant Karma" when I act foolishly I am saved by outrageous luck Examples that I am aware of: A single wasp took a special interest in me on a hill just above Nabalus 50 meters away an IDF corporal was playing his M16 when it slipped off his lap and sent 5 rounds in a perfect line starting with my foot print and ending with where my head would have been had I not been trying to get away from this insect. A Palestinian friend of mine from Jarjour called me to ask if I could inquire why the IDF had placed a tank in his orchard and why settler Children were pitching tents near the tank. Aithough the area in question was a now "Military Area" and the Tank was placed there to look for terrorists. I made through the perimeter because the officer on watch recognised my face from some Educational T.V. Program and mistook me for a visiting official. I caught the Tank commander having tea inside the settler perimeter. 3 Trained attack dogs ran out at me ready to strike but suddenly stopped only feet away sat down in the dirt howling and whining and defecating as if they were in agony. I took this opportunity to calm and pet them as settlers Palestinians and soldiers looked on in amazement. Even as I saw then running full out at me I had this amazing feeling of calm and that some one had enclosed me and my friend Ibrahim in a sort of protective bubble. I would not believe this story had I not experienced it. Out side of Harez in Palestine I witnessed a demonstrator had fallen before a line of Israeli Police and had broken her wrist After I had helped her up a 120 kilogram (260lb) Israeli police captain pushed me from the back. Like a total idiot I spun around and screamed at him in hebrew Hishtagata? which means "are you nuts". Miraculously he took a step back tripped over his own feet and took down eight policeman with him to the ground in various stages of half saves regaining of balance only to go all the way down to the ground sitting to laying down (four little policemen on each side as he fell.) Even the police were laughing. Ever since I was little when ever someone tried to do me harm challenge me or humiliate me. Terrible things seem to happen to them. Accidents illness and even death. When I was little I felt guilty in that I had somehow willed these things to happen. Allah Akbar |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 15 April 2005 at 6:35am
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How come an supposedly ugly looking serpent (demon?) could be able to decieve them? Why would anyone take a literal meaning of it just to distinguish between a satan and a serpent or a demon for that matter? However, with your explanation, then could serpent be another super-natural entity like angels, satan, or demon in Judaism?
So, from where this law of Noa comes in other than "the five books of Moses"? and why this law has precedence over the books of moses? I mean to say if law of Noa came before Moses, then the old law is automatically obsolete becuase of the new law (assuming the new law overrides the old). But if Noa came after Moses, then why would you only believe in him and not the other prophet who came in the line till Jesus or for that matter till Mohammad.
What is your belief about awaited Messiah? Is it from books of Moses or from law of Noa or from any other source? I am trying to collect from some of your earlier postings that Jews should not be in that land of Palestine, in the first place. Rather they should wait for the prophesied Messiah and only come through his commands (not exactly but words to that effect). Where is this prophesy (book) and by whom?
Provided we believe that these writings are from authentic sources. Isn't it? But what happens when we do come to know that they are not from the authentic sources? Should we continue in the conundrum of conjectures? |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 16 April 2005 at 10:20am
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At this point in my life I think it's all about kindness, tolerance and
generous compromise tempered with reasonable humility. I mean if you only look after yourself everyone hates you. If you give a beggar your only belt your pants fall down. Snakes demons or Satan it's all the same symbol. Innocence vs the world. We all have the basics from our seperate religions on how to get along. We need to compare notes like what we are doing here and figure out how not to hurt each other. I apply the bible metaphorically to my life. The best I manage is a B+ on the Ten Commandments 9 out of 10. My best work day is on the sabbath. I make money and then I make excuses. God didn't intend me to have an overdraft... I admit that I have experienced miracles before my very own eyes. They are not the topic of everyday conversation even with myself because they challenge my fix on reality. Conundrum of conjectures? Perhaps. Who knows the truth? I don't. What feels right isn't always what feels good. I don't believe most of what I read. I have great faith in people who also think for them selves as well as having faith in Allah. I worry that while we fuss over the details of our seperate faiths we exclude each other from solving bigger problems that our children and our children's children will inherit. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 18 April 2005 at 6:05am
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Bismillah, Thank you for sharing your miracles, Daniel. I'll look at all the bees around my house differently now. (But I'm still thinking of buying poison because my little boy swells up with a sting. Not fatally, but it's a sight!) I agree with your comparison of our faith comment. (How do you people quote those things? Anyway, you know.) It was in my view a huge reason why I come to this discussion board. (Increasing my faith, patience and good will are others. That's why I leave sometimes, for lack of getting those things.) Conundrum of conjectures and hardwired hardliners. Great sounding stuff! Very alliterative. Why is it conjecture Ahmad? I don't believe in many things literally, but I am a muslimah. Are you asking Daniel's opinion? Because the stated facts that are literal can be found in books in the library. If someone asks my opinion, which suprisingly enough once in a while they do, I say I believe that good people go to heaven, and that heaven as described in the Quran is for unimaginative people who needed something concrete to hold onto. I wouldn't have anything to look forward to if I took the Quran's description of heaven literally. (Please remember that even though I am different than you, I deserve respect.) I trust Allah, SWT, to provide a lovely heaven for me, and I don't worry about the details. I follow the five pillars, even though I can't imagine being able to get to Mecca. Maybe when my sons are old enough to take me. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 18 April 2005 at 7:21am
Dear Sis Herjihad, I was simply commenting upon the unknown authorship of present day bible as Daniel do seem to admit this fact. All they have is a second (who knows may be third, fourth or....) hand manuscript whose authenticity can't be verified. No one knows what is original and what has been added in it by the human hand. So all the best they can do is use conjectures to recognise God. Therefore, though Quran doesn't compel them (and ask them to follow the word of God that had been sent to them for their right guidance) but recommends them to leave conjectures and follow the straight path which is without conjectures. Other than this, I had no other implied meanings to the conjectures and in no way used them to humiliate anyone's faith. Rest Allah knows the best. May Allah guide all of us to the right path. Amen. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 18 April 2005 at 2:03pm
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Dear Cousin Herjihad, Bee Allergies are dangerous. If you can't Keep some sort of Beta blocker like Arbuterol spray around the house A good strong cup of coffee will aid a swollen throat by purging water from the smooth muscles there. In case you are caught away from a hospital always have in your car two packets of instant coffee a water bottle two aspirin and anti- hystamin. 1. Do not remove the stinger by pinching more venom into the skin Use two hands one to pinch the skin up and roll between your thumb and fingers. with the other hand or tweezers guide the stinger out. 2.Apply a crushed aspirin directly to the puncture. 3. Have her/him Drink water and take an antihystamine. 4. For a child have sweet strong coffee handy if s/he starts to wheeze. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 20 April 2005 at 10:39am
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AhmadJoya,
Sister Herjihad hit it pretty much on the head. The Bible is believed by many religious Jewish scholars to be true but sort of in code. The world was created 5000 years ago in the space of a week? Well who's to say how long a day was then? Newtonian physics has since made way for new laws of nature where time is not a constant. This is giving me a head ache too. We are all going to find out in the end... or not. You just go on with your life doing Tikun Olam (fixing the universe) or Sakaat (the Joyful giving) and enjoying this beautiful world in which Allah has allowed us to be. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 11:38am
| Well, Daniel, I think there is a difference between being "some true" and being "all true". The point being made was that no one knows in the OT as to what is true from God and what is true from human hand. Trying to sifting out from this mixture of the two is where conjectures come in. Though someone may still recognize God through this book, but that would solely be based on conjectures. On the other hand, the same God can also be recognised through Quran, but then it is not based on conjectures but on sound evidence. The choice is open and clear. However, whatever the way, I pray that may Allah help us all to recognise Him all the way. Amen. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 21 April 2005 at 1:43pm
This is why when two jews get together you end up with three different arguments. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 23 April 2005 at 7:58am
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Bismillah, I saw an Arab/American comedian once. He was hilarious. Aside from him, I have yet to see Muslim on Muslim jokes as seemlessly and painlessly quipped as Jewish on Jewish jokes are. Daniel: Benadryl, the generic, works for his hives and reactions to bugs and insects for some reason. And that's good because I don't use aspirin and I don't drink coffee (yuck) -- but of course my neighbors would have those things if I needed them. I've been reading Tayuush the Vermonters for Palestine thing you suggested. It has a huge links page. (But I'm not paying $90 bucks for the Jerusalem Times!) Hypothetically, do you think mixed Jewish and Muslim marriages would be cool? (I know the Orthodox Muslim answer to that. Only Muslim men and Jewish women, never Muslim women and Jewish men.) ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 23 April 2005 at 8:18am
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No No I for got her name but I'll get back to you there is an N.Y. Muslim
comedean and I'll find her for you but get my email now ( just click my name and the link'll come up be for I get broomed from here. I just sort of stepped over the line with my last E=mail. regarding um well never mind 
The Jerusalem times? Look to ISM and Gush Shalom it's all eye level. and free off the net. These are not proffessional reports though they are more like letters from the front from young people. These are great kids though. Heros. Pains in the b - uh neck sometimes but heros none the less. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 26 April 2005 at 4:02pm
This is like a total set up. How can I answer this. Humorlessly... When my sister married out of the faith to Christian Man my mother declared my sister dead and sat (Sheva) the seven days of mourning. If we marry a Muslim I think we are drowned in a 100 gallon Vat of Lebanese Humus... I'm sorry can't help it. It's a pretty straight deal. If you marry a person of another faith you become either a secular person or join their faith before you marry. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 5:13pm
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Bismillah, That was your mom's generation. Maybe you and your sister will deal with intermarriage differently in your generation? ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 5:52pm
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Heh - there have been a few weird Bible editions over the centuries - like the Bible in which the "not" was accidentally omitted from "thou shalt not kill". It has a nick-name, but I've forgotten what it is. Something like the "murderous Bible", or something... Kim... |
Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 6:35pm
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Wow Daniel - remind me to be standing next to you when there's a huge disaster! Or sitting next to you when there's a train crash. Where were you when I was falling off the horse??? Kim... |
Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 7:22pm
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I have a Moroccan friend who is married to an Australian guy. I'm not sure if he is religious at all, but I guess he (like many of us) is at least nominally Christian. I asked her how her parents felt about marrying a Christian guy. She said it was ok with them because her aunty married a Christian German guy many years ago and he eventually converted to Islam. So her family's attitude is now "He's not a Muslim? That's ok - one day he might be, and if we have helped that, then that's cool too". Kim... |
Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 7:28pm
http://www.stateart.com.au/sota/hit-list/default.asp?fid=3108 - http://www.stateart.com.au/sota/hit-list/default.asp?fid=310 8
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Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 9:01am
I think so. Our values and priorities are very different from that of my mothers and grand mothers generation. My father and I however flew 2000 miles to be with my sister when my nephew (his Grandson) Jesse was born. |
Posted By: Sanjiv
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 9:05am
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Surprised to find in the Sunday Telegraph an Australian newspaper that there is currently a small number of Indian Jews who's family tree streches over a millenia in the Kashmiri region and Manipur. Didn't think it possible due to geographics but indeed it seems Jewish merchants came and settled down in India due to trade. Found a website relating to this below if any were interested. http://www.hotathrandom.com/IndianReligions.htm - http://www.hotathrandom.com/IndianReligions.htm http://members.tripod.com/adaniel/manipurjews.htm - http://members.tripod.com/adaniel/manipurjews.htm
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Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 9:08am
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[/QUOTE]
Wow Daniel - remind me to be standing next to you when there's a
Where were you when I was falling off the horse???� Kim... [/QUOTE]Better the horse than the wagon. Train crash? What is with you and outdated modes of transportation? Huge disasters? I only do little ones. But  I'd be happy to have you
stand next to me any time you like. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 9:15am
I had heard a little and knew even less about this community. Thank you for posting these links. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 9:28am
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On the subject of "Jewish humor"
I'm not sure that we are as funny as we used to be. |
Posted By: Shams Zaman
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 1:36pm
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There are numerous stories about The Jews living in Afterwards due to fear of internal fight each tribe was given a separate water spring which emerged as a miracle in that desert from Prophet Moses (MPBUH) stick. So these tribes remained there for some time but once they refused to fight the infidels alongside Prophet Moses, to take their land in Shams Zaman ------------- [email protected] |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 5:10pm
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Wow. I'll poke around and see if anyone here thinks along these lines.
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Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 07 May 2005 at 9:46am
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Nope. This is a total mish mosh of stories all of which I've heard in their
various entirety but certainly not in this sequence. The lost tribes were so called only after the destruction of the second temple by the Romans. The leprosy story rocks. For all I know this could be true. |
Posted By: kim!
Date Posted: 08 May 2005 at 11:35pm
OOPS! I was wrong! It was the "Naughty Bible" because it left the "not" out of "Thou shalt not commit adultery"! :} Kim... |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 09 May 2005 at 12:55am
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And then there's the Romanian Bible...
My Mother's Grandfather was Romanian. He could follow a person into a revolving door and come out ahead of them with a wallet, pocket watch and a big smile the size of a European crosswalk. He wore both suspenders and a belt. My Father said this was because "The man didn't trust his own pants." |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 1:40pm
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Bismillah, My grandpa's were Baptist preachers. I didn't know them, unfortunately. So this grandfather of yours, was he also Jewish as well as Romanian, or am I missing something? I think we should do an Arab/Muslim version of the Princess Bride because laughter vitalizes us humans. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 23 May 2005 at 6:24pm
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Gypsies are called Roma My Grampa was Jewish by birth but in his heart
he was a Gypsy. At least that is what he said. He said a lot and he always captured our imaginations as children as being a Roma a King of Gypsies no less. Roma. He told me I was a prince and my sister a princess. He was a total character and I miss him. He drove my mother nuts with his schemes and scams to make money instantly and his secular and totally subversive attitudes towards any sort of authority. He snuck my sister and I into any number of baptist churches in L.A. The fire and brimstone stuff was disturbing to us and hilarious to him and I remember him with his jaw set, his arms folded in front of his chest and the palm of his open hand in a secret gesture to me to be cool because something wonderful was coming. Gospel choir music. When the choir started to sing he'd look at me sideways over his glasses making a double chin and his eyebrows dance. "What'd I tell ya. Eh? Eh?..." I grew up thinking that all black people were terribly clean, articulate, strict, organized and religious. I reasoned that black people were treated so badly because there were too many white people and that white people were naturally jealous. When I shared this revelation with my grandfather he laughed and told me that I was a genius. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 3:14am
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Bismillah, I thought all people were naturally jealous, and NOW I find out it's just us whites! What a wonderful grandfather! It's too bad tolerance skips a generations sometimes. What did your grandfather think about the Arabs and the situation in Israel and Phalastine? I thought I had taught my daugher the things I feel naturally, like not being a bigot or racist; but she hates hispanics because a group of girls were very cruel to her when we moved to a new area. So is that it? A group of Phalastinee were cruel to some Jews and the revenge is going to continue? And then when time passes and the Phalastinee have more power, they will show equal cruelty in revenge also? Of course I probably shouldn't have put the cruelty by Phalastinees first. Who did it first is so important, right? (Maybe in reality it would be best to concentrate on who was the one to stop the cycle.) So, there are people who want to just make peace, but we seem outnumbered by the people who need revenge. Sorry for being so dismal. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 24 May 2005 at 2:33pm
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My grandfather died in 1976 about 2 months after I was wounded in
Kadum just above Nabulus serving in the IDF. I wasn't supposed to be in Israel at all according to him. My grandfather had never been a soldier. He said "If you kill a person for any reason you destroy an entire world" My brother had served in the US Army during the Vietnam war My Dad was with the 101 in WW2. My Father saved the world and my brother and I put ourselves in harms way for the agenda of businessmen and cynical politicians. My grandfather didn't think about such things. They were "worries". He felt that worrying was "a terrific waste of time." I'm sorry your daughter had to experience that. kids can be pretty cruel some times. Regarding revenge and terror. It is not the only weapon available to an oppressed people it isn't even the most effective. but it is the most satisfying. On the other hand, Non Violent Passive resistance takes great strength restraint, courage and love. Personally I'm not up to it but I support it and help people who practice peace. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 1:53pm
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Bismillah, How is non-violent passive resistance helping, for example, in Israel and Phalasteen? I think about Ruwanda and how so many people were murderers and how the families of the victims must co-exist with them. How are they doing it, and how will they stand it? If they make it, it seems anybody should be able to. That's a beautiful saying of your grandfather's. My feeling is that the most heinous killers and rapists should be killed also, maybe as an example; and people who are activelly physically trying to kill you, like in your house. Then if we provide education, healthcare, and housing to people, most of them wouldn't be criminals anymore. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 25 May 2005 at 4:20pm
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I disagree that anyone should be executed by any state. Killing Eichman
here in Israel was a mistake. A person who presents a clear danger to society should be reformed or removed from society. I clear danger is in my mind: murder assault rape and willful destruction of theft of property. If a person is presented with the choice of standing their ground or running away from a mortal challenge they are ethically obligated to run away. I would go so far to say that if a person stands their ground in a public place where innocent people may be caught in the cross fire. They should be found guilty of willful manslaughter. All life is sacred and it up to Allah when a person dies and no one else |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 28 May 2005 at 5:27am
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Bismillah, It would be better if we had the resources to imprison rather than kill most of the criminals. But the prisons are overcrowded, underfunded, and there is not much chance of reform in places like this. Also, many so-called minor criminals, such as wife-beaters and stalkers, are being released early or not incarcerated at all because of this lack of space. Murder 1 is intentional, premeditated. Murder 2 is intentional but not premeditated. Manslaughter is unintentionally but wrongfully causing someone's death. If self-defense is concluded, there is no charge. It'd be great if people had a living wage to provide for our own needs just by working a good job. What do poor people in Israel do? Does the state give them housing, healhcare, food for a limited time with requirements to look for work and provide proof of that, or seek education and provide proof of that? I heard that new immigrants needs are met by the state. Is that true and for how long? ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 28 May 2005 at 1:27pm
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Poor people are offered great deals in the settlements.
Healthcare is provided for all rich or poor. all religions New immigrants are provided great deals tax free for the first 7 years they are here provided they are jewish. If you are muslim or christian you pay through the nose like regular sabrahs -that is if you can get into the country at all or even obtain a work permit. |
Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 28 May 2005 at 1:33pm
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It is nice to see that Daniel is still with us...
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Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 28 May 2005 at 1:50pm
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Hey Suleyman!!!
It's been totally nuts here. Freedom Summer has arrived and the guest room is ready for my ISM kids. I was up to my neck in computer mischief this last month. Some one switched my monthly income with my ID number at the national insurance main office. All my "assets" were immediately seized, (these consist of an overdraft at the bank and an ancient renault) my earnings were attached and income tax demanded yet another audit. My studio was vandalized. My mother actually called me on my birthday which can only mean that she's either up to something or is at death's door. How have you been man? |
Posted By: saalih
Date Posted: 28 May 2005 at 2:23pm
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Bayazid Bastami & the Rabbi One day Hadhrat Bayazid Bastami rahmatullah alayhi while in meditation, saw himself in a synagogue dressed as a Jew. At first he was confused, but when he kept on seeing the same vision over and over again, he decided to enact it. So, he dressed himself as a Jew and went to their synagogue. |
Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 28 May 2005 at 2:25pm
 ,Thanks my friend Daniel...if we don't count sending 75.000,-USD to an wrong account and not also counting of forgetting to opening an Letter of Credit to Spain;everything is fine in my life,Alhamdulilah...it is proud to see that you are inside of us...take care...enjoy with the summer,very nice;as you know from the Mediterranean Sea
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Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 29 May 2005 at 11:53am
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Shakur welcome to the party.
Your story sounds like any number of mnemonic sequential devices used to remember the icons of Judaism One is the lord Two is the tablets of contract Three the fathers Four the ? Mothers ? Five the books of Torah I forget the rest... But there's no drama to it No one is threatened with death No one from a neighboring religion get's publicly faced or has to convert to another religion. I can't help feeling you're trying to put your thing down here. |
Posted By: saalih
Date Posted: 29 May 2005 at 2:32pm
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no really, if you ask your rabbies truly they will tell you islam is the true religion same goes for christians. let me ask you question. can a person convert to judaisim without being a jew. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 29 May 2005 at 5:09pm
I don't know how to answer you. These are riddles. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 29 May 2005 at 9:40pm
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Bismillah, Daniel, this is a difficult postulation. How can your non-violent vision enable peace in Israel/Phalasteen? Do you believe that it can? Is there an organized group of Israelis/Phalasteenees and others concentrating on such methods? Easier: What music do you play? ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 30 May 2005 at 12:46am
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HerJihad,
It was never my vision. I'm the most unlikely candidate for non violence if ever there was one. The only way to get someone like me to embrace nonviolence is to shame them into it. Little old Israeli women put themselves in the way of IDF Bulldozers to save Palestinian property and lives. They stake out the roadblocks and military barriers where our soldiers tend to behave badly. They are the eyes and ears and the conscience of what remains of our heritage and all that was good about us and still is. There's not enough of them. Tens of thousands of Israeli draft age youth have weaseled out of the army by claiming medical, religious and mental illness. Those who claim their conscience as a reason to get out of the army go straight to jail. There are so many of these draft dodgers that they are sent to regular civilian prisons. On the other side of the spectrum are the settlers. See: Gush Shalom; New Profile; Women in black: Hadash: Balaad (Israel); Peace Now; ISM; ICHAD; Mozaic Communities (Israel) In the middle remain the main population greatly disillusioned and dreaming of European and American citizenship. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 30 May 2005 at 4:26am
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Bismillah, It is encouraging that a lot of Israelis don't want to join the military. I have heard the fact that everyone must serve in the military at some point in their lives as an excuse to target non-combatants. Of course, the crazy people who think they will go to heaven for killing innocent people think a lot of wrong things. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: saalih
Date Posted: 30 May 2005 at 10:50am
how is my question a riddle. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 30 May 2005 at 4:10pm
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Okay I'll bite.
1.) Only a non jew can convert to Judaism. The real question is why would someone choose Judaism? I was born a jew with certain loyalties and trained to perceive life in this existential- more questions than answers- way. Islam and Christianity offer a personal relationship with Allah as well as a personal saviour. To a person trying to make sense out of life and believing in such things as salvation and utter forgiveness for past deeds- Islam covers this wonderfully. I believe that Allah/God intendsthat we as jews behave as jews and repair the damage that we have done to society and ourselves. Perhaps with the help of other faiths. I can not give up on Judaism because it is the source of what I am. We have been kicked out of the Holyland twice. In both cases it was because we made selfish and stupid choices. ............................................................ ... 2.) If Rabbis believed that Islam was the true religion they would be Muslims. |
Posted By: saalih
Date Posted: 31 May 2005 at 8:14am
| you havn't answered the questoin maybe should bite again. this is logic, if your religion is the true religion, and that you believe only those whom are among you will go to heaven the rest of 6 Billion ( and in the past) people who are not jews will automatically go to hell not because they didn't want to convert judaisim but they couldn't. just for the simple reason they were not jews. am i wrong or can other people who are not ethnicaly jews convert to judaisim |
Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 31 May 2005 at 9:19am
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Assalamu alaikum, Shakur, living in the United States, you should be aware already that some people do convert to Judaism, especially those who marry a Jew. Please, read this entire thread and see all the good things Daniel has done for the Palestinians, perhaps this will help soften your heart and your words. He does deserve our respect at the very least. Peace, ummziba. ------------- Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~ |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 31 May 2005 at 1:43pm
Anyone can convert to Judaism regardless of race or religion Judaism does not have a stand on hell as there is no formal belief in a hell the likes of what is described in Christianity or Islam. There are stories and legends such as the book of Job where the devil makes a deal with god etc. It's not required reading. It's an irritating story- a dark joke. There are also stories of monsters. Shelly's Frankenstein is based on a yiddish folk story "The Golem". It's a child's fantasy with two dimensional characters and foils. It's like the Charlie Bronson Death Wish series only it all takes place in Prague. And the Character meeting out dark justice is a creature fashioned from clay and Magic. The walking hut of the witch hag Babayaga... I only know about this stuff because my brother has an MA. in Yiddish Folklore and Mythology. As we say in Hebrew Shtooyot bamitz agvaniot. "Nonsense in tomato juice".
Any more questions? |
Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 31 May 2005 at 2:04pm
| Shakur,please don't cause polarization...i believe Daniel made more good things to the Palestenians than we made... |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 01 June 2005 at 3:17am
|
[QUOTE=Suleyman] Shakur,please don't�cause polarization...i believe
Daniel made more good things to the Palestenians than we made...[/ QUOTE] Suleyman if only that were true. I am completely self serving here. Those "Evil IDF soldiers" average aged 18-21 years old believe that they are fighting the devil himself. I'm just a little better informed. The best thing I could do for the Palestinians is to leave. I'm sort of stuck here and I'm looking for a compromise that my conscience can let me live with. |
Posted By: saalih
Date Posted: 01 June 2005 at 7:24am
| if you call it nonsense do you still consider it the word of god ( the book of JOB) |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 01 June 2005 at 7:26am
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Bismillah, I got that you thought you should leave from what you said about your grandfather saying you shouldn't be there. Well, I've been thinking about how to bring that up. And now you did. You know the obvious conundrum. So many Arabic people's families are there, and they can't go back home to be with them because the Israeli goverment has taken their travel rights and I guess citizenship rights. Yet, if the Israeli Jews like you who care about all human life leave, then who will be left? Yet, some people are going to feel that you have taken their place. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 01 June 2005 at 9:27am
|
Herjihad,
I vote balaad which is what my wife calls the "Arab" party. That's non sense It's the only democratic non Commie party that believes that the law of return should not apply to only one religion. I think the experiment is over as far as building a "light unto all nations" I think we made a mess of it in the most important part. We did have a great deal of help screwing up but in the end the responsibility was ours once we were strong and safe in our own "home". My children will serve in national service that is they'll teach Math, Music and English in poor neighborhoods until they are drafted into the IDF. From there they are prepared to go to jail once they are ordered to serve in the IOF. I used to do an impersonation of Johnny Cash when I was playing the tea houses "I'm Johnny Caayash I went ta prizin as diyd mah dahaady befar mahe... When mah' lil boy grozup he a goin ta prizin Oy a broch... |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 01 June 2005 at 9:47am
uh oh...
INCOMING TRICK QUESTION HIT THE DECK MEN AAAAAUGHHHHHH.... I was talking about the book of Job in it's context as an originally Hebrew manuscript. I mean Jeez Louize man I thought WE (da Jews) just made it up like a last minute album filler. Like "Her Majesty" on Abbey road or "Thorn Tree" on the Laylah album. It's Like... like, like, that. No? ]
Okay Okay I apologize It's not nonsense. It is beyond my understanding. Now where would you like me to send my pinky? |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 02 June 2005 at 1:40am
You covered it all there didn't you? In like one paragraph. There are levels of hypocrisy. I'd like to think that in cases where some chaos is unavoidable we can still get some work done. Last night I learned from Uri Avnery a man who excels at getting me in trouble with the police and my mother that I am considered by the new IDF Military chief of staff (Halutz) to be "a traitor and that I should be prosecuted" Congratulate me I must be doing something right. 
This is the same man that dropped a one ton bomb on a terrorist in Gaza. In the process nine children died||| Sorry. Nine children were murdered. When Haaretz asked him, "What do you feel" When the news came that the civilian casualties had been high and he was called on the carpet for it he replied. "I take full responsibility for this action. as for what I feel... I feel a slight bump in the floor as the bomb leaves the airplane." I promise you Herjihad and all who listen, I'll see HIS arrogant butt in the Hague dock before I die. There's an ISM Fund Raiser coming up on the eighteenth. I'm donating a bunch of signed albums. let me know if you or your friends are interested in the states. I'll hook you up with Tommy Wallace in Boston |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 02 June 2005 at 4:16am
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Bismillah, Can they prosecute you? The Hague sounds like something really bad, but tell us what you mean. Thank you for donating your albums. What is ISM? Who is Tommy Wallace?
------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 03 June 2005 at 7:00am
If they did prosecute me it would be a good thing. They would have to review my evidence publicly. My family would be safer on shopping excursions. (Last year we were run off the road by an unmarked government car. Two civilian police officers hiding at a speed trap 200 meters away witnessed the whole thing and pulled them over. I was ordered to stay in my vehicle by the police with the one bottle of good wine we buy for the sabbath and the milk and meat groceries we buy for the whole week mingling on floor in the back seat around my children's feet. The government guys were released. I was not allowed to get out of my car or see to my children for twenty minutes. My wife said something about this country (Israel) turning into a banana republic. I filed a complaint and received several months of continuous blatant pointed obnoxious police harassment for my troubles. Almost every officer that has been involved has been through some miracle of fate directly or indirectly available to me in their civilian lives. I find out with out asking that they are the sister in law of a good friend or have children that are being treated for substance or chemical abuse I work privately with young adults and children that are trying to re-enter society. My wife is a professor of Neuroscience at Haifa University and volunteers 4 hours a week as a family therapist. The same people that do us harm are shown to us to be in terrible need. Our fear turns to pity and our anger to compassion. I think I'm getting extra help here. I can't believe that there are people as blessed as I am. I know that I I'm this short fat over talkative pompous and at times very silly man- I always have been. Yet I'm getting this special crash course in daily doses from what can only be the hand of Allah. That sounds nuts to me too. Believe me. I think Allah is making a point and that point being just look at what I can teach THIS dumb jewish shmek. All he has to remember is that Allah/God is in charge and I take care of him against all odds. In an ocean of evil I provide islands. Amid chaos and despair I tell him how beautiful and precious and hilarious life really is. Google: 'Daniel Dworsky 2297771 ISM' or Tom Wallace ISM 'Rachel Corrie Tom Hurdall' Regarding the Hague: http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/forum_eng.html |
Posted By: saalih
Date Posted: 04 June 2005 at 11:15am
| interesting website http://www.jewsforallah.org - www.jewsforallah.org |
Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 04 June 2005 at 1:25pm
|
Shakur,
Thanks for the website. Peace, Danny |
Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 04 June 2005 at 2:05pm
| Das ist einen interestichen siten...Shakur,theinch du veriech muchen...Jazach Allah Kherichein... |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 05 June 2005 at 4:50am
|
Bismillah, Was that German? That was a very interesting site. Shakur, thank you very much. Does that mean I know German??? That would be cool. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 05 June 2005 at 4:56am
Ja Ja,meine ist einen Dutch,broderich Suleimenech...Hallo' Herjihad... |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 05 June 2005 at 5:30am
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Bismillah, Cool. This was harder. Yes, Yes, it is German, brother S. Hello! Daniel, I read the first speech from that Gush website. I like what the general had to say about changing from doing bad things to good. What right did he have to change when the change was easier? Maybe it will cause a lot of hardship for him still, but doing the right thing is always important. Of course, many people might get angry about me saying this. But when I read the Qur'an before I became Muslim, I saw that it said that Christians, Jews and Muslims will go to heaven. I further understood it to say that Allah can guide anyone, even people without a prophet. This combined with the fact that Allah, SWT, is neither male nor female and that men and women are equal in piety before Allah, SWT, encouraged me to become Muslim. So I think good Jews, Muslims, Christians and others will go to heaven because the Mercy of Allah is unbounded by human hatred. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: saalih
Date Posted: 06 June 2005 at 9:26am
| i am sorry but it won't happen. a person who deosn't believe in one god and muhammed is he's prophet will not got to heaven. allah says no other religion besides islam will be expected and the they will be consider the loosers. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 06 June 2005 at 2:16pm
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Bismillah, We'll see. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Sanjiv
Date Posted: 07 June 2005 at 2:04am
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Daniel Dworsky It is humbling to see people like you with a open and loving mindset to your Palestinian Buddy's or mates. So many bad things happening around the world today that it is indeed encouraging to see people keep up that human spirit. I admit my own ignorance as the uprising began in 2000 I believe I remember all the media bias. I never quite got hold of the real picture until a documentary called The Issue That is Palestine by Aussie journalist John Pilgert was shown. It became painfully evident the suffering caused by this ongoing 60 years or so war. If anyone can find sources to John Pilgert let me know as I have been unsuccessful.
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Posted By: Daniel Dworsky
Date Posted: 07 June 2005 at 11:59am
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G'day http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3502.htmhttp :// pilger.carlton.com/palestinehttp://www.palestinemonitor.org/ media/ false_witnesses.htmhttp://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/20 02-06/ 30pilger.cfmhttp://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article 3499.htm
Danny Alekum Salam P.S. After I die I know I'm not going to heaven or hell. I'll be hanging out with all my friends at a refugee camp... |