second wife
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Forum Name: Groups : Men (Brothers)
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Topic: second wife
Posted By: yahya in LA
Subject: second wife
Date Posted: 26 August 2005 at 6:52am
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ASAK Brother I need so help from you!How would you break it to your first wife that you have met a sister and you want to make her the second wife.Without causing the first one to be hurt? |
Replies:
Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 26 August 2005 at 11:38pm
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I do not believe there is any way on this earth that this can be done. How would you like to hear that?
Lameese |
Posted By: mazallen
Date Posted: 31 August 2005 at 10:07pm
As Salam Alaikum You shouldn't -- unless you are willing to follow every condition set forth in the Qur'an regarding the treatment of second (third and fourth) wives. It's no accident that Allah (s.w.t) made these so stringent for polygamous marriages. Besides, polygamy's illegal in every State aside from Arizona and Utah Peace |
yahya in LA wrote:
-- and we are supposed to respect the laws of the land
....Posted By: Henna
Date Posted: 01 September 2005 at 6:57pm
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Brother yahya in LA, did you talk to second sister about your first wife? |
Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 01 September 2005 at 10:35pm
Actually. polygamy is illegal in all states, although it is done more in Utah, due to the Mormons. But as with everything else, you have to catch them first.
Lameese |
Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 8:48am
| Not the Mormons Lameese....the apostates that practice Polygamy are excommunicated groups that follow their own rules. Polygamy was stopped by Mormons in 1896. But, Polygamy is illegal in all 50 states. I am suprised however it hasn't been challenged to the Supreme Court, since it is a religious issue. That whole 1st Amendment thing. |
Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 28 September 2005 at 9:18am
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I think that is all about to change. There are a lot of Mormans that are cloistered in small communities and marrying very young girls and kicking the yournger males out. This is seen now by the government as pedofile behavior when you are marrying a 12 year old. There is a Morman "preacher" that is being sought right now for "trying to get his Uncle's 12 year old to marry him" and his uncle was going to give this girl to him. It is illegal even for the Mormans and you are right that no one has done anything up until now. But now some of the women that have escaped (their words) are coming forward to tell their stories and how the law would not even protect them. So, this is all about to blow up. And I hope it blows the lids off all these communities because I think the word for the women suffering under these people is : VICTIM.
Lameese |
Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 2:05pm
| I agree Lameese, but you have to understand. These are not Mormon communities. Warren Jeffs and his people are not part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The Mormon Church. Our church actually has a program to help these poor young men and women and is leading the fight to get these pedophiles and deviants stopped. Polygamy itself is not an evil practice, but our church has found many members who abuse God's laws and take multiple wives for all the wrong reasons. The Fundamentalist LDS church is a cult, pure and simple. Mind control and terror are their tactics to keep the people in line. They will excommunicate a man and reassign his wives to another man. This is not in any way shape or form what the LDS church teaches or practices. Nor was it ever. When the LDS church did practice, many of the plural wives were in fact taken so they had a husband to care for them. Widows, elderly sisters who never wed, or in some cases another loving wife, but it was not like these criminal acts in southern Utah and Northern Arizona. |
Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 5:09pm
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Lameese, I have to say as a former mormon that I back up Angela,
polygamy is not allowed in the current mormon church and is against the
law in Utah. All of my family is mormon and we have no polygamists in
our family. The state of utah, and arizona where the mormon
fundamentalists reside are however doing a bad job of prosecuting
polygamy and need to be tough on the men who mostly cannot support
thier wives so the women collect welfare for all the kids and the
families are supported by the government. Peace
------------- You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly. |
Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 29 September 2005 at 6:18pm
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Ok, sorry let me clarify. These are people that say they are Morman and the Church, when founded by, I cannot remember his name but have visited his house, say that they have rights. Basically, they are saying they are the "Old Mormans", anyway that is how it was explained to me by a morman. So, sorry to classify all Mormans together.
Lameese |
Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 30 September 2005 at 7:23am
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Its okay Lameese, I guess we Mormons get a little thin skinned at times. We've suffered so many injustices and blatant lies. When a group breaks off and starts claiming to be the true church in its inequities, we get defensive. Mormons have been persecuted over our 175 year existence. It was still legal to kill us on site in Missouri up until the mid 1970s. I took no offense to what you said, just wanted to make sure you understood there is a big difference between the Fundamentalists and the Mainstream church. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17 October 2005 at 12:51am
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I lived in an Islamic country four years. I studied the islamic religion with an open mind. While Mohammad may have done some good things during his day for the less fortunate female gender, it isn't being done this day and age. It is the most depressing thing to read how some Moslem women care so little for their own gender and join the men in such harsh judgement and punishment toward themselves. I am so glad I am not a slave to such a mean and devilish vehicle as this religion is towards women. If it has been handed down in its purest form (in Mohammad's own words) that women are to be treated this way, then I am sorry but Mohammad was wrong. Any woman who would willingly take up Islam or the Mormen religion are masochistic to say the very least. If God had intended men to marry more than one wife, he would have made Adam and Eve, Joan and Fatemah. Wake up women ! Why are you buying all this crap ? Do you like pain and suffering? Or do you just like seeing others in pain and suffering? You are participating in evil by joining in and trying to gain the approval of your pursecutors. Allah knows the difference in a kind and an evil-loving heart. Don't you know it was a woman who gave birth to Mohammad? |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 17 October 2005 at 7:03am
Question: Why is a man allowed to have more than one wife in Islam? i.e. why is polygamy allowed in Islam? Answer: 1. Definition of Polygamy Polygamy means a system of marriage whereby one person has more than one spouse. Polygamy can be of two types. One is polygyny where a man marries more than one woman, and the other is polyandry, where a woman marries more than one man. In Islam, limited polygyny is permitted; whereas polyandry is completely prohibited. Now coming to the original question, why is a man allowed to have more than one wife? 2. The Qur�an is the only religious scripture in the world that says,"marry only one". The Qur�an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase �marry only one�. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the other religious scriptures, whether it be the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta, the Talmud or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one. Many Hindu religious personalities, according to their scriptures, had multiple wives. King Dashrat, the father of Rama, had more than one wife. Krishna had several wives. In earlier times, Christian men were permitted as many wives as they wished, since the Bible puts no restriction on the number of wives. It was only a few centuries ago that the Church restricted the number of wives to one. Polygyny is permitted in Judaism. According to Talmudic law, Abraham had three wives, and Solomon had hundreds of wives. The practice of polygyny continued till Rabbi Gershom ben Yehudah (960 C.E to 1030 C.E) issued an edict against it. The Jewish Sephardic communities living in Muslim countries continued the practice till as late as 1950, until an Act of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel extended the ban on marrying more than one wife. 3. Hindus are more polygynous than Muslims The report of the �Committee of The Status of Woman in Islam�, published in 1975 mentions on page numbers 66 and 67 that the percentage of polygamous marriages between the years 1951 and 1961 was 5.06% among the Hindus and only 4.31% among the Muslims. According to Indian law only Muslim men are permitted to have more than one wife. It is illegal for any non-Muslim in India to have more than one wife. Despite it being illegal, Hindus have more multiple wives as compared to Muslims. Earlier, there was no restriction even on Hindu men with respect to the number of wives allowed. It was only in 1954, when the Hindu Marriage Act was passed that it became illegal for a Hindu to have more than one wife. At present it is the Indian Law that restricts a Hindu man from having more than one wife and not the Hindu scriptures. Let us now analyse why Islam allows a man to have more than one wife. 4. Qur�an permits limited polygyny As I mentioned earlier, Qur�an is the only religious book on the face of the earth that says �marry only one�. The context of this phrase is the following verse from Surah Nisa of the Glorious Qur�an: "Marry women of your choice, two, or three, or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one." [Al-Qur�an 4:3] Before the Qur�an was revealed, there was no upper limit for polygyny and many men had scores of wives, some even hundreds. Islam put an upper limit of four wives. Islam gives a man permission to marry two, three or four women, only on the condition that he deals justly with them. In the same chapter i.e. Surah Nisa verse 129 says: "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women...." [Al-Qur�an 4:129] Therefore polygyny is not a rule but an exception. Many people are under the misconception that it is compulsory for a Muslim man to have more than one wife. Broadly, Islam has five categories of Do�s and Don�ts: i. &nbs p; �Fard� i.e. compulsory or obligatory ii. &nb sp; �Mustahab � i.e. recommended or encouraged iii. &n bsp; �Mubah� i.e. permissible or allowed iv. &nb sp; �Makruh� i.e. not recommended or discouraged v. &nbs p; �Har aam� i.e. prohibited or forbidden Polygyny falls in the middle category of things that are permissible. It cannot be said that a Muslim who has two, three or four wives is a better Muslim as compared to a Muslim who has only one wife. 5. Average life span of females is more than that of males By nature males and females are born in approximately the same ratio. A female child has more immunity than a male child. A female child can fight the germs and diseases better than the male child. For this reason, during the pediatric age itself there are more deaths among males as compared to the females. During wars, there are more men killed as compared to women. More men die due to accidents and diseases than women. The average life span of females is more than that of males, and at any given time one finds more widows in the world than widowers. 6. India has more male population than female due to female foeticide and infanticide India is one of the few countries, along with the other neighbouring countries, in which the female population is less than the male population. The reason lies in the high rate of female infanticide in India, and the fact that more than one million female foetuses are aborted every year in this country, after they are identified as females. If this evil practice is stopped, then India too will have more females as compared to males. 7. World female population is more than male population In the USA, women outnumber men by 7.8 million. New York alone has one million more females as compared to the number of males, and of the male population of New York one-third are gays i.e sodomites. The U.S.A as a whole has more than twenty-five million gays. This means that these people do not wish to marry women. Great Britain has four million more females as compared to males. Germany has five million more females as compared to males. Russia has nine million more females than males. God alone knows how many million more females there are in the whole world as compared to males. 8. Restricting each and every man to have only one wife is not practical Even if every man got married to one woman, there would still be more than thirty million females in U.S.A who would not be able to get husbands (considering that America has twenty five million gays). There would be more than four million females in Great Britain, 5 million females in Germany and nine million females in Russia alone who would not be able to find a husband. Suppose my sister happens to be one of the unmarried women living in USA, or suppose your sister happens to be one of the unmarried women in USA. The only two options remaining for her are that she either marries a man who already has a wife or becomes public property. There is no other option. All those who are modest will opt for the first. In Western society, it is common for a man to have mistresses and/or multiple extra-marital affairs, in which case, the woman leads a disgraceful, unprotected life. The same society, however, cannot accept a man having more than one wife, in which women retain their honourable, dignified position in society and lead a protected life. Thus the only two options before a woman who cannot find a husband is to marry a married man or to become public property. Islam prefers giving women the honourable position by permitting the first option and disallowing the second. There are several other reasons, why Islam has permitted limited polygyny, but it is mainly to protect the modesty of women. |
Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 17 October 2005 at 8:33am
Masochistic? Do you Remember Rachael and Leah? First off, its not masochistic to want to see another woman taken care of by a good man. And considering I cannot have children, I would have many reasons to allow my husband to take another wife. Its no longer allowed by our church because there were those that abused it. The minute the men started exercising unrighteous dominion over the women in there lives, God removed his permission for this to take place. I was a radical feminist in my youth. Do you really think I would join a faith that teaches women are just objects? Perhaps you need to read the LDS Proclaimation to the world about the Family. Women and men are equal. Past is past and present is present. We do not practice polygamy anymore and the girls in southern Utah are born into that life. The point is.....polygamy is not evil if practiced properly. That means the husband loves all his wives equally and that all the wives freely chose to live like that. Islam gives women the right to decide who they want to marry. The same goes for the LDS church. A woman has rights, and if that's her choice, you cannot take that from her....no matter what you personally would want. If you do that, then you're no better than the men you are claiming subjugate women. |
Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 17 October 2005 at 10:05am
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. Jazak allahu khairanPosted By: rahma2r
Date Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:21am
thanx... i have exams.. so i will be away for a while....pray for me |
Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 19 October 2005 at 12:57am
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Posted By: kenski70
Date Posted: 28 November 2005 at 7:31am
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a while back my wife and i were watching 60 minutes and they had the story of one of these guys in utah and how hes trying to stay out of prison.anyway my wife looks at me and says "maybe thats what you need a second wife."my response "yea great plan that way i can have two brother-in-laws sleeping on my couch." ------------- Sorry about that turn signal,I must have fallen asleep. |
Posted By: Moona
Date Posted: 30 April 2006 at 10:48am
I think the best thing to do,is to have conversations about this with first wife BEFORE you have found,and desire to marry a second wife. The first few time's my husband and I spoke of this,I was sad that he may in time,if he wanted,to marry a second wife. Then as time went by,I became more accostomed to the idea,and now,even welcome it.  My husband is very wise,and would only marry a good,kind,and gentle second wife,and would make sure that she is respectful,loving and kind to me.,and to him.I am older than he,and can not have children.I would welcome a second wife as my sister.------------- Moonie |
Posted By: Megatron
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 2:29am
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Yahya in LA. From one Bros to another after reading you're comment, I'd just like to say a few things: You're awesome and if I knew you personally I'd give you a high five. |
Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 22 June 2006 at 3:21am
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Yahya, In islam, you do not have to marry legally, you can marry by doing Halal only. Your second wife will not get your name but you can recongnise your children. I think you need to seek permission from your first wife to do so before going for it. You need to make sure both are happy and that you can afford both of them as well. I suggest you seek the advise of an Imam before doing anything. Salam brother, Muslima |
Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 7:39am
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In Islam you are supposed to follow the legal laws of where you live. Therefor in a non Muslim country it is Illegal to marry more than one, you need to follow the LAWS where you live!!! Otherwise you give the Muslim communtiy the appearance of ignoring the law and trying to allways work around it. Please be responsible people!! ------------- You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly. |
Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 7:46am
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Jenni, I am sorry but if i want to marry a Muslim, I do not have to have a legal marriage. i can simply do Halal. Even if I am the only wife.
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Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 8:11am
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Muslima, In some states, polygamy can be prosecuted even if there is no legal marriage to the second wife. Utah laws are set up that way. I think Arizona, Idaho, and Nevada are too. He can to a halal only marriage. But he would be breaking the law in MOST states. It would do neither wife any good for him to be in jail for breaking the anti-polygamy laws. |
Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 8:19am
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I do not think we have these laws in Europe. I thought as long as you do not marry legally more than one wife, what you do is up to you really. Ok, now I know about this. In this case, then I suggest he does follow the law of course. I personally would not like to have a husband with other wives but this is up to each one to decide I guess. Brother, ask youself why you want to marry this other sister. Don't you love your wife anymore? Allah Marak, Muslima |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 8:47am
If you dont have legal marriage certificate then its not considered a marrige in US |
Posted By: Jenni
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 9:20am
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Muslima, then you are playing yourself a fool. If you get pregnant and have a baby the man has no legal responsibility for you or the baby. He does not have to sign the birth certificate. He can skip out and you would have to chase him down, get a lawyer and pay for a paternity test. This has happened to Muslim women here. I am surprised what women will do just to snag a man. I would never do just a halal marraige without a legal U.S. marraige. I am too special and intelligent. ANd certainly not desperate enough for that. ------------- You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly. |
Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 9:27am
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But Jenni, not eveyone believes in legal marriages. I would never get married to have somebody legally bound or stuck to me against their will. I would of course want the father to recongnise the child. If that happened to me and the father did not want to recongnise the child, then the child will have my name. Usually, if you love someone, they do not do that to you. Love is about trust. Salam sister |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 9:40am
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now I know why our Prophet empathised so much on education.... just look at the stuff posted above!..
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Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 9:55am
| This is not a sin to do so. If you have done Halal, it's fine. |
Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 11:35am
Asalaamu alaikum: FYI the mormons outlawed polygamy in their church over a hundred years ago. The only ones that have polygamy is the supposed apostate from the mormons Fundamentalist (FLDS) chuch in Colorado City and Hillsdale. They were "excommunicated" from the main mormons (LDS) long ago. I live in a heavily populated mormon area and have had these discussions with some of the people, that is the only way I know lol... Polygamy is illegal in the US and you would give the first wife grounds for divorce, plus Allah (swt) has decreed that all wives be treated fairly, and they could not be if they could not all be legal. But it is your decision and Allah (swt) knows best. Can you support 2 wives? ------------- "Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile. |
Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 11:39am
| What if I do not want to be married legally? Just with Halal? |
Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 12:29pm
Thanks Maryah. I've given up trying to correct people. They'll believe what they want. We still believe that Polygamy when practiced properly is not wrong. However, God has (in our church) revoked the right to practice this type of marriage because of the inequality and abuse that non faithful men practice in this regard. That is also why the Quran warned its not preferrable unless the man is sure he can be fair to all his wives and completely equal in treatment. |
Posted By: Lameese
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 12:29pm
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If you think this way then why not just get a temporary marriage and go from man to man and husband to husband. Why not be used cause that is what you are asking for here. Stand up for your rights! Lameese |
Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 12:39pm
| If one married with a pious husband her rights will be assured,but i do not understand why we separated legal and halal marriage between to each other...qur'an's rules is also legal...all we need is to consider on whom we marry with... |
Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 23 June 2006 at 1:38pm
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I would not have a problem being married with Halal. Of course, the point is not to marry a hundred times, and then you chose someone, it is supposed to be the one. But this is not Haram to marry many times in Islam even for women. Of course, it should not be the purpose but a woman can get dovorced and remarry. |
Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 24 June 2006 at 12:21am
As salamuaikum, Muslima, if you want an Islamic marriage only that's fine. I know lots of sisters in the states who did this. They're husbands are still with them and supporting them and the children have their father's name. As far a husband taking a second wife in the west. It's still halal. Secular laws that's contradict Allah's law can never change Allah's law. What is halal Allah has made clear and what is haram Allah has made clear. We cannot make what is halal haram anymore than we can make what is haram halal. Remember this is what the previous nations did and Allah ta'la was angry with them. Yaqoolu ta'la: 5:87 O ye who believe! make not unlawful the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, but commit no excess: for Allah loveth not those given to excess. Salaam
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Posted By: Muslima
Date Posted: 24 June 2006 at 7:44am
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Thank you brother Abeer. I knew it was possible! And I had not meant it in a bad way, going from one person to another (which was a gratuitous comment). Salam brother. |
Posted By: Knowledge01
Date Posted: 24 June 2006 at 4:01pm
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Beloved sister, "Legally" only means having to do with paper, which has no real purpose in the sight of Allah. It must always be halal, no matter where you live, how old you are, who you are, etc. Allah's laws are the only laws that should govern a Muslim. In the same way, if you want your marriage to be "legal", it must still be halal. |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 24 June 2006 at 6:14pm
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Also respect the Law of land.
( I think it says somewhere) |
Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 25 June 2006 at 1:34am
You're welcome Muslima salaam
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. By the way, Abeer is a girls' name. I'm a sister
.