So called "Bad Muslims"
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Description: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2526
Printed Date: 27 November 2024 at 2:23am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: So called "Bad Muslims"
Posted By: YOUNG JEEZY
Subject: So called "Bad Muslims"
Date Posted: 08 October 2005 at 6:41pm
|
You guys remember that conflict in Bosnia and Hertzgovenia(Sorry for the typo)? Well today I was in my car with my pops and he was saying sh*t like yo..those people in Europe are messed up the Moslim ones...during that war the Muslim people raped children, girls....and just had intercourse with them because according to Allah "a raped, or a women who had previously had sex without marriage isn't worthy" and some other sh*t like...i dont even remeber clearly and I dont want to say something wrong... Well how is it their fault that they were forced upon to have sex...Or those terrorist hi-jackers they said their killing everyone for Allah...I dont get the Muslim religion it says or FROM WHAT I HEARD AND LEARNED that it is you should kill anyone outside your religion or not associate with them...some crap like that By the way whats an infadel...? Ok so...look at all these Moslims killing terrorists, arabs happy that "their people made a change" you don't hear about Catholics running and blowing themselves up becasue 30 years ago a Priest sopposably raped a child whcih absolutly has no proof and its just a large conspiracy...dont tell me the "Jews" are just masking up eveyrhting and blaming it on arabs... I don't know....im starting the have weird viewpoints on this religion and Its hard to convince me its better then Catholisism "Other religions show ways how to REACH GOD and ENLIGHTENMENT, But only Christianity shows God humblity reaching down out to man. I dont wanna sound prejuduce or anything and everything I said is from what others have told me... ------------- ...hi... |
Replies:
Posted By: Dayem
Date Posted: 08 October 2005 at 9:16pm
|
After reading your post, young Jeezy, we get a cool moral;that is, one should'nt simply believe in what anyone else say. " Avoid most of suspicion; surely, suspicion in some cases is a sin. Quran(49:12) " ------------- "the mooslims! they're heeere!" LOONWATCH.COM |
Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 09 October 2005 at 6:31am
bismillahi rahmani raheem
muslims don't have sex outside marriege. muslims don't rape. muslims don't follow lust. an unmarried who commits zina should be whipped 100x in public. a married should be stoned to death in public. period. any person who commits zina lost his Islamic faith automatically. more so people who force it on others. plus muslim can't even go near zina, what more force it. Quran 17:32 And come not near to the unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is a Fahishah (a great sin), and an evil way.
muslims don't kill anyone outside our religion or not associate with them, except in defence from attacks. murder without justice is a BIG SIN, they go to hell. even if it's an accident causing the death of a non-muslim, we must seek forgiveness, pay compensation to the deceased family, fast 2 months & repent with true repentance (wether Allah accepts or not, it's another story). & Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) uncle is a pagan. but the Prophet treats him so well, when he died -- it's the year of sadness for the Prophet. Islam even protect the rights of non-muslims. In Jerusalem, Umar Khattab was invited to pray inside a church, he turned it down & prayed at a distance of the church as to not show muslims the right to overtake churches (i.e. make it into mosques). he even signed a treaty to secure churches, places of worships & other religions. & me -- my neighbours include hindus & budhhists. i never killed them. me & Gayathri even played together as kids.
muslims worldwide condem terrorism so much we make conferences to unite our condemnations. if u care to know, terrorists attack muslims too. bombs also blew in egypt, indonesia, saudi, turkey as well... scores of muslims are killed by terrorist, & add to that wars by the US. muslims are also victims. the only one blaming muslims for terrorism are the ignorants. i'm actually using the most honest words i can come up with in this recent minutes. if young jeezy wants to be catholic, so be it. we don't care. if u have rife with ur dad, u told us. then muslims here have said nice words to you... remember that? but u starts accusing islam by ur ignorance. & that i care. wallahu a'lam. |
young jeezy wrote:Posted By: YOUNG JEEZY
Date Posted: 09 October 2005 at 9:51am
|
ignorance... your saying no muslim has ever raped or has sex outside their marrige are you kiiiiiiiiiiiiiding me!!!! hahaahahahahahhahhhh you just proved yourself wrong son....you nver answered what i said why do muslimskill themselves in order to go to Allah...i dont get it w/e ------------- ...hi... |
Posted By: Dayem
Date Posted: 09 October 2005 at 10:01am
|
Gt the defination, young man, gt the defination.muslim=someone who has surrendered his desire against those of Allah(swt)...or God......so any one after raping claims that he is a muslim......well, im pretty sure they are some stupid christian or any other non-muslim trying to disgrace Islam.....u know what we do to a person who rapes?We stone em to death.......no muslim gonna do that baby.Same for killing, man, exception if he kills for defence..thats difference...... ......Muslim dont kill emself.....under no condition...cauze its pretty clear that whosoever kill emself gonna burn in hell.....maybe under stress some one do sucide......but he too will go to hell. Gt the fact of the matter b4 pointing finger......im losing patience with ur stupid posts... ------------- "the mooslims! they're heeere!" LOONWATCH.COM |
Posted By: Begbie
Date Posted: 10 October 2005 at 3:39pm
|
Posted By: YOUNG JEEZY
Date Posted: 10 October 2005 at 7:50pm
|
Dayem...stupid posts...look what goes on in the middle east you tool....everyday a terrorist attack i know an arabic guy who raped a 5 or 7 year old child...im asking how come so many terrorist attacks are made my arabic people IM NOT POINTIN OUT THE RELIGION im asking why is always arabs involved in this b/s the other day i was in a car with some arabic people and their sun yells DEATH TO THE JEWS and their parents laugh......whats up with that and soon they all talk about it by the way i found this picture well someone sent it to me is this a ritual what the heck is it..non of my muslim friends knew
thats so scary.... but im saying how come some Muslims say they are going to die for God and kill people for him I dont get it..who are they tho kill for God...God will do that himself he makes and takes away life ------------- ...hi... |
Posted By: Dayem
Date Posted: 11 October 2005 at 5:13am
|
"i know an arabic guy who raped a 5 or 7 year old child"-does that make em a muslim?Say, hitler killed soooooooooooooo many people, can I blame christanity?No I cant.I dunno if u will undrstand...u sound like a kid...but any way, lets try.Say young, u heard of Ferrari car?Well suppose, Ferrari has revealed a brand new car..and ur not sure if it is good one or not.So, to judge, will u look at the car or the driver?Suppose the driver is terrible..that dosnt make the car terrible too?So to judge it, u gotta look at the car CLOSELY.And as for the muslims killing n raping....man, if u come across any muslim having done that, just ask 'em-How can u do that?I thought Islam forbids killing and raping?'He will either wink and say-Keep quite!Not so loud!Im only trying to disgrace Islam.Or that person may loose his cool and shout-who the hell told ya that?!Ur mad!There is nothing like that.Then u just say-If ye are truthful,then bring your proof, that is, where it is written.For Indeed he never gonna suceed.Watch him curse ur smart mind! ------------- "the mooslims! they're heeere!" LOONWATCH.COM |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 11 October 2005 at 3:34pm
|
Excellant question. I appreciate this way of reasoning. |
Posted By: YOUNG JEEZY
Date Posted: 11 October 2005 at 3:51pm
|
yo....I like the Muslim religion well i respect it and I am oriented about it...i know teh basics but i wasnt trying to be rude...mabye its just me i always go and ask questions to rough...its a great religion if people followed it... but i was reading part of the Koran and it said "Jesus will come back and kill the swine and the crosses" dont you think that Jesus would have more stuff to worry about such as all the murderers, pollution, animals that kill innocent people and the curruption. I like to analyze things. And Hitler wasn't Catholic by the way he was half jewish but he had his own little religion goin on Thanks for clearing up alot of stuff I liked that Ferrari example
I dont mean to sound rude if any of you think that its just I wanna learn some new stuff thanks for takin the time ------------- ...hi... |
Posted By: hafezabutaleb
Date Posted: 11 October 2005 at 9:47pm
|
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. "24.1": (This is) a chapter which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. "24.2": (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement. "24.3": The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers. "24.4": And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors, "24.5": Except those who repent after this and act aright, for surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. "24.6": And (as for) those who accuse their wives and have no witnesses except themselves, the evidence of one of these (should be taken) four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely of the truthful ones. "24.7": And the fifth (time) that the curse of Allah be on him if he is one of the liars. "24.8": And it shall avert the chastisement from her if she testify four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely one of the liars; "24.9": And the fifth (time) that the wrath of Allah be on her if he is one of the truthful. "24.10": And were it not for Allah's grace upon you and His mercy -(ye would be ruined indeed |
Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 12 October 2005 at 4:29am
|
Posted By: Begbie
Date Posted: 12 October 2005 at 8:00am
| Which verse in the quran states that the punishment for zina is stoning ? |
Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 12 October 2005 at 5:19pm
|
bismillahi rahmani raheem, Quran, 4:59 O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if you do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination. Quran, 24:51The response of the believers, when they are invited to Allah and His Messenger that he may judge between them, is only to say: We hear and we obey; and these it is that are the successful. Sahih Bukhari, 9.091.365 Narrated Abu Huraira: While we
were with Allah's Messenger, a bedouin got up and said, "O Allah's Messenger! Settle my case according to Allah's Book (Laws)." Then his
opponent got up and said, "O Allah's Messenger! He has said the truth!
Settle his case according to Allah's Book (Laws) and allow me to
speak," He said, "My son was a laborer for this man & he committed
illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son
should be stoned to death but I ransomed him with one-hundred sheep &
a slave girl. Then I asked the religious learned people & they told me
that his wife should be stoned to death & my son should receive 100 lashes & be sentenced to 1 year of exile.' The Prophet
said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, I will judge between you
according to Allah's Book (Laws): As for the slave girl and the sheep,
they are to be returned; & as for your son, he shall receive 100 lashes & will be exiled for 1 year. You, O Unais!"
addressing a man from Bani Aslam, "Go tomorrow morning to the wife of
this (man) & if she confesses, then stone her to death."The next
morning Unais went to the wife and she confessed, & he stoned her to
death. ------- yes, muslims follow the Quran. & when cases arises which are not clearly understood, muslims refer to Allah & Rasulullah. as recorded in multiple Sahih Hadiths, it is a well known fact that when married adulterers are referred to Rasulullah, he judged for them to be stoned. if you disbelieve Rasulullah's conduct, or these multiple Sahih Hadiths, well that's for you to answer to Allah. Rasulullah lives by Allah's rules; & believing that naturally sets muslims to follow his conducts in life. wallahu a'lam. |
Posted By: Begbie
Date Posted: 13 October 2005 at 2:05pm
See, for me, that would imply that the koran is either not the complete word of god or it has been corrupted (I seem to remember a vague reference to a beast of burden eating some pages or something) or people are picking and choosing. As you probably know, the koran only crowd will make this argument. No further response i needed, thanks for your input. Regards, Francis Begbie. |
Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 14 October 2005 at 12:45am
|
|
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 14 October 2005 at 7:33am
|
Dear Sis firewall I am not very clear when you say "but i did found Quran verse supporting stoning as mentioned in my previous post." as which part of your previous post show this? If this is your evidence "....The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, I will judge between you according to Allah's Book (Laws): As for the slave girl and the sheep, they are to be returned; & as for your son, he shall receive 100 lashes & will be exiled for 1 year. You, O Unais!" addressing a man from Bani Aslam, "Go tomorrow morning to the wife of this (man) & if she confesses, then stone her to death."The next morning Unais went to the wife and she confessed, & he stoned her to death.", and not from the Quran we have itself, then either we don't have the same Allah's Book or the narration is wrongly interpreted or this narration is just a fabrication. I don't know which out of these three possiblities you consider them to be true and which as 'false'?
|
Posted By: rahma2r
Date Posted: 14 October 2005 at 7:40am
Hitler was a Christain A good one is this from Mein Kampf:
|
Posted By: rahma2r
Date Posted: 14 October 2005 at 7:44am
I dont get it? Y did the guy got away with it and the wife was killed? can someone provide some info on it please PM me
|
Posted By: Begbie
Date Posted: 14 October 2005 at 8:13am
I reject it because I don't believe in any of it. But working with what's in front of me, it is still a very tenuous argument you make.
None of them are from the koram though are they (I only checked a couple of links.
If anyone has walls, it is yourself, you are surrounded by a wall of orthodoxy and dogma.
I am not twisting anything. I said my piece and that was that. How can you twist a fact anyway. The punishment for zina is clearly stated in the koran and it aint stoning.
I'm all for that. But anyway, we can agree to disagree and let the matter rest. Francis Begbie. |
Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 14 October 2005 at 11:58pm
|
bismillahi rahmani raheem, honestly, i'm sad how one cannot see i posted Quran, 4:59 & 24:51. clearly these Quran verses revealed that Allah supported Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), that the Prophet enacted Allah's Laws. for Allah to support the Prophet, it must mean that, muslims must also look into the Prophet conducts, as to support our understanding of the Quran. when we differ about stoning in the Quran, we must look for our supporting basis in the Prophet's conducts. this is what Allah states in the Quran -- the verses are many & very clear. Quran, 4:65. But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad [PBUH]) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission. so the crucial answer we must now find -- did the Prophet (PBUH), or did he not, enacted stoning? answering this, you will see why i presented the Saheeh Hadiths. these are records that the Prophet of Allah did enacted stoning. if you bring me records that the Prophet rejected stoning, insha Allah i'll reconsider. but i've found many reputable records confirming this judgement (as in last posts), & none rejecting it. so pls understand, for me, i don't have any basis to deny it, thus i believe. i also read that stoning has been revealed by Allah since the days of Moses (its in the Torah). it was known by the Jews, by the Christians, by muslims. ask them wether Moses enacted stoning. I belive he does too. the trouble is, some people deny it this judgement. pls understand, i'm here not to quarrel with you. Allah will Ask me on Judgement Day. & i don't have a basis to deny stoning, so pls.. i must say i believe. Allah will Asks you too, & you will answer too. all & all i don't want to misled people, so you can judge yourself. may Allah Help us seek Truth. may we understand, insha Allah. wallahu a'lam. to rahma2r, its because the man is single, the woman is married. unmarried person is judged by 100 lashes, married person is judged by stoning. wallahu a'lam. |
Posted By: Begbie
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 8:29am
I asked, very explicitly, what the punishment for zina is as stated in the quran. It is not stoning. My question has been answered. I am not interested in pursuing it. Regards, Francis Begbie. |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 8:45am
|
Thanks sis firewall for your reply. However, I couldn't understand your reply to answer my question especially once you say "clearly these Quran verses revealed that Allah supported Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), that the Prophet enacted Allah's Laws." As we know that Allah's law is in Quran and its enaction is through Sunnah and not the other way around. So in such a mismatch situation, do you think would it be justified to rely on such a hadith which may seem contradictory to Quran? How reliable the collection of hadith may be, but the basic rule of understanding of such human work must be understood within the context of Quran only. Secondly, the hadith are the "snap shots" of the events in Islamic history. They don't have all the associated supporting literature, other than from within the narrated hadith, that would show as when, where and in what conditons such a narration could have possibly been done. Hence, on this very limitation, all the scholars are very cautious about quoting ahadith without learning them through proper education from a reputed scholar. It is in this situation, that I would always refrain quoting from ahadith directly. In this very notion, do we know if the narration of event in this hadith is before or after the revelation of verses in Quran? Thanks anyway for your efforts. |
Posted By: firewall
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 7:36pm
|
bismillahi rahmani raheem, ok. if that's what ur answering to Allah, who am i to say. i know begbie will not understand this, even if i say it's in the Torah he doesn't understand the link between Torah, Quran & Hadeeths. so what he thinks is limited by his understanding. i thank AhmadJoyia, for his efforts. but i'm sorry, if i use this rule, i'd have to question many islamic rituals also, which are also not specifically stated in the Quran but is in the Prophet's sunnah. i.e. the Quran tells to pray*. but somehow, menstruating women do not have to pray*. if i use the contradictory rule, this does "seem" contradictory. but when we think deeper, taking into account both Quran & sunnah, it is not at all the case. thus creatively, there must be another rule of thinking to understand Islamic laws, which will judge: we all must pray*, but for menstruating women, she's not enjoined to until her period ends. this is the set of thingking i believe, which doesn't deny both the Quran & sunnah. still to be safe, i refer this to Allah, maybe its a blessing -- & thank AhmadJoyia anyway. still, we all seek guidance from Allah. wallahu a'lam. * 5 daily, obligatory prayers. but women can still du'a etc. |
Posted By: Deus
Date Posted: 15 October 2005 at 8:01pm
|
So AhmadJoyia, by your personal understanding, the punishment for zina is 100 lashes? Regardless of marrital status? (i.e. for this particular law, you reject the hadith?) |
Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 16 October 2005 at 10:48am
| Well brother, I am not qualified in this matter to suggest any comments here, but merely asking to understand as what is the basics of understanding Isalm through such critical examination. |
Posted By: skygazer
Date Posted: 17 October 2005 at 8:48pm
|
Why didn't you just read it yourself in the first place and find out for yourself? Too lazy? |
Posted By: Dayem
Date Posted: 17 October 2005 at 9:24pm
hahaha ------------- "the mooslims! they're heeere!" LOONWATCH.COM |
Posted By: freebird
Date Posted: 25 November 2005 at 2:01pm
Most posters have given good replies for this but I have something else to say. The style of this typing (coloured) will never convince anyone to change their views. By right I should not let anyone knows, but hey, for the sake of worthy readings and having a worthy opponents is better than a stupid assistant. |
Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 22 December 2006 at 1:19am
| And you said that Christianityy teaches humbleness. Please what humbleness are u talking about when you dance and sing in church and dont even take your shoes off? Didnt God tell Moses in the bible to take his shoes off? Yes he did. These arent humble hearts. look at the Muslims when he goes to prayer and look at the christian. We wash and wear the nicest outfits etc, you sprinkle some cologne on and go and dance. No humbleness in that. Some Muslims cry in there prayers, some Christians get jiggy with it. |