e4.3 Circumcision is obligatory (O: for both men and women. For men it consists of removing the prepuce from the penis, and for women removing the prepuce (Arabic, bazr) of the clitoris(n:not the clitoris itself, as some mistakenly assert).(A:Hanbalis hold that circumsision of women is not obligatory but sunna, while Hanfis consider it a mere courtesy to the husband.)

A. is the comentry on this law by Sheikh Abd al Wakil Durubi
O. is an excerpt from the commentary of Sheikh Umar Barakat.

n. are comments by the author.

I am Hanafi, but i am not ashamed to state what is clearly a acceptable practice by Islamic standards, simply becouse some westerners have made some trumped up charges which are clearly ignorant of basic facts we should not be ashamed or embaressed to state what has been an islamic practice from the time of the prophet!

I also mentioned some legal principles/maxims which applied to this issue but i wont go into them.

I appeal to all the Muslims on this forum to openly condemn this practise which has never been sanctioned by Allah in the Quran, nor did the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) recommend this.........as clearly there is no justification whatsoever why this hideous practise should continue.

This is completely inaccurate, female circumcision like male circumcision predates islam and christianity, which means that it was practiced in the time of the prophet and something that is sunnah as there is nothing in the Quran and sunnah prohibiting it. Unless a clear prohibition exists in islam against this you can not even state it is haram that is for Allah alone.

another legal maxim states �The norm in regard to things
is that of permissibility� (Al-aslu fil-ashyaa� al-Ibahah). Permissibility in other words is the natural state and will therefore prevail until there is evidence to warrant a departure from that position. This maxim is based on a general reading of the relevant evidence in the Qur�an and Sunnah. Thus when we read in the Qur�an that God �has created all that is in the earth for your benefit� (2:29), and also the hadith that states: �whatever God has made halal is halal and whatever He has rendered as haram is haram, and all that over which He has remained silent is
forgiven�, the conclusion is drawn that we are allowed to utilise the resources of the earth for our benefit, and that unless something is specifically declared forbidden, it is presumed to be permissible.

You can find an explanation of what a legal Maxim is http://www.aml.org.uk/journal/3.2/Kamali%20-%20Qawaid%20al-Fiqh.pdf - here and what they mean in islamic law.

When something is harmfull in islam it becomes haram for us, no one can even state what is harmfull with female circumcision, our scholars would not allow a practice to continue for 1400 years while it is harmfull  simply to uphold mere custom this is against islamic law.

Allah has also said that He has created us in the most perfect moulds and who are we to be meddling with His creation? Let Mr Rami or anyone who practises or supports this practise explain what is good about this and why it should not be stopped.

I have already proven your asertions to be incorect. There is no need to go into benefits as the discussion on female circumcision has been closed and any further comments in the near future will result in the person being banned.

From the above it is clear that we are not to look for the meaning of the words that are allegorical and whose meaning is hidden and to follow what has been made plain to us.

Everything that a Muslim needs to know in order to lead a life of righteousness has been made plain to him in the Quran and there is no crookedness therefore we need not go searching for something hidden as all that we need to know has been made clear.

From the above it is clear that Allah has made the Quran easy to understand and those who earnestly seek to understand it will find guidance in it.

YUSUFALI: When they do aught that is shameful, they say: "We found our fathers doing so"; and "Allah commanded us thus": Say: "Nay, Allah never commands what is shameful: do ye say of Allah what ye know not?"

Note the above two verses carefully. Not only has Allah made it easy for us to follow our religion but has also commanded us not to follow what is shameful and those acts that were done in the days of ignorance prior to Islam.

In addition to the above Allah has also commanded the Muslims to obey the Apostle. All that Allah has commanded in the Quran has been put into practise by the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) and this has been recorded through narrations of those who were closest to him. These records are known as the �Hadith� and of these we Muslims go mainly for the most authentic that have been recorded by Muslim & Bukhari and the 40 authentic hadith known as Qudsi.

2. Even after repeatedly reading the Quran many times and having read many of the authentic hadith I have nowhere come across the command to perform female circumcision.

Everything that Allah has permitted us and forbidden us from in the Quran is for our benefit. For example with regards to intoxicating drinks we have been told that there is more harm in it than good. Clearly from most of the posts on the FGM thread the performing of this hideous act can cause mutilation, infections and God knows whatelse. I do not know what advantage there is to it but clearly there is more harm. So I cannot understand why anyone would even say that it is �optional�. On the other hand there is clear evidence even from the medical point of view that the male practise is done for the sake of personal hygiene and to prevent disease. It is just as removing unwanted hair from the body for the sake of hygiene and there is no harm from it. When a person argues as has been the case that if it is done on the male why not on the female, my question is the female gives birth, do you also give birth? No the two are not the same!

My �madhab� is mainstream Islam and I do not divide and attach myself to any sect giving it special recognition. As Muslims we are commanded to accept only the Quran without questioning and everything else is open to question, enquiry and criticism. Even the great caliph Umar (RA) openly accepted criticism and said that those who criticised him were his friends as they saved him from the hell fire by allowing him to correct himself.

3. Elsewhere on the forum you have asked why Muslims flock to the so called scholars?

This is because some people like to take the shortcut. Instead of reading and understanding the Quran, they flock to scholars and in some cases it is impossible to reason with them. The value they place on the words of the scholars is unfortunately extremely high and because they do not seek to understand the meaning of the Quran there is a lot of ignorance. It is the same as in Christianity. Some churches have accepted homosexuality and some have gone to the extent of the ordinations of gay priests. But the Christians who have read the Bible and know that God forbids these acts have simply moved away from that Church, whilst others believe whatever the priests say.

4. On another thread someone has asked why many non-Muslims think all Muslims are terrorists?

Sometime  back I too would have defended myself when anything negative is told about Muslims. Allah has told us in the Quran to ponder upon His signs. Whilst many Muslims have died since S11 because of the attacks of the coalition in Iraq, Afghanistan etc, many many more have also died in the Tsunami, the floods and the earthquakes. The number of people killed in Turkey, Iran, Aceh, Pakistan etc, make me reflect. Allah has said in the Quran that whatever wrath befalls us we bring it upon ourselves.

Islam and Muslims are two different issues. While Islam is beautiful and perfect unfortunately many of those who are born into it take it for granted and believe they are the chosen people. They live in the west yet are very quick at hurling criticism at western practises. In fact the laws of the western nations are more in line with Islam than many so called Islamic countries. The leaders of many of these nations are more humble than Muslim leaders. We have too many Saddams. Give a person some authority and he behaves like a dictator. Muslim countries abound in corruption and arrogance and suppression is common. Iniquity is common. Though we have received the Book, we do not follow it as it should be followed. Allah has promised that if we did not He would replace us by a people who would follow. And that is exactly what is happening today. Many non-Muslims are becoming Muslims after reading and fully understanding Islam. Many are even taking the steps of spreading the truth to other Muslims by teaching them the difference between right and wrong. Yes, I am one of those dejected by the natural disasters that Muslims have brought upon themselves today and pray that they seek His guidance which is the Only Guidance.