France expels students over hijab

Wednesday 20 October 2004, 2:30 Makka Time, 23:30 GMT   
 
The French ban on hijabs from state schools outraged Muslims
 
 Two teenage schoolgirls have been expelled from a school in eastern France for ignoring the controversial ban on Islamic headscarves.

All religious insignia, including the Muslim scarf, the Christian cross and the Sikh turban, have been banned from state schools in France under a law that came into force early in September.

The two girls were expelled after school authorities failed to persuade them to abide by the law.

"In the past two months we have had several meetings with the families and with these students," Michelle Feder-Cunin, headmistress at the Jean Mace school in the city of Mulhouse, said.

Persuasion

The aim of the meetings had been to explain to the girls, identified only as Dounia, 12, and Khouloude, 13, the need to comply with the law.

Under the law, school authorities must first try to persuade girls to remove the headscarf and only if they persist in refusing can they be expelled.

The parents of the two students have eight days to appeal against the expulsions.

There are 72 students within the state school system in France currently breaking the law, according to education ministry figures.

Community wrote: The muslim girls should shave off their hair and go to school bald, maybe by this it will remind the jewish and non jewish communities for that matter, of the injustice done to the jewish women being shaved bald in concentration camps during the holocaust because they had another faith, because they were "different". And it would allow the muslim girls to follow their education without them having to worry men will see their beauty. Education is important after all, and i do not think the schools will ban bald girls from attending classes although it might not look very comforting.

i did an essay on this (about banning the hijab) last school year.  of course i apposed it.  i believe muslim women have a right to wear hijab. When i was researching this so called law i came across an artical about a muslim girl shaving her head bald because she refused to go to school without her hijab.  another artical i read compared the French government with the talliban.  "Talliban forces women to wear hijab and the French forces them no take it off. Whats the difference" it said.   

At school I had to wear a white shirt, school tie, navy skirt, blue jumper/cardagain.  Trousers for girls were banned, and on the occasion I tested the rules I was sent home.  I could have been suspended if I repeatedly broke the school rules. 

A uniform is a uniform, religion should NOT be brought into it.

when in rome do as the romans do.........its that simple.

you must abide by the laws governing the country you choose to live in........

if you dont like it than tough

ak_m_f wrote: christian wrote: when in rome do as the romans do.........its that simple. you must abide by the laws governing the country you choose to live in........ if you dont like it than tough Then all the people from US anad Europe should grow a beard and wear burkka in Saudi Arabia, like you said "When is rome do as romans do"

yes..........

if they are living under a islamic government and are told to behave as such they should do it........

and if they dont like it they should come home

ak_m_f wrote: christian wrote: when in rome do as the romans do.........its that simple. you must abide by the laws governing the country you choose to live in........ if you dont like it than tough Then all the people from US anad Europe should grow a beard and wear burkka in Saudi Arabia, like you said "When is rome do as romans do"

Something tells me you want all of Europe and America to be an Islamic state.....

Just now I read a post were you asked us to leave you in peace and respect your faith.. How can we with an attutude like that?

Its attitudes like that, that set us back centuries!!!!!  People ask me wny I think multiculturism doesnt work.. classic example!

ak_m_f wrote: Ketchup wrote: ak_m_f wrote: christian wrote: when in rome do as the romans do.........its that simple. you must abide by the laws governing the country you choose to live in........ if you dont like it than tough Then all the people from US anad Europe should grow a beard and wear burkka in Saudi Arabia, like you said "When is rome do as romans do"   Something tells me you want all of Europe and America to be an Islamic state..... Just now I read a post were you asked us to leave you in peace and respect your faith.. How can we with an attutude like that?   Its attitudes like that, that set us back centuries!!!!!  People ask me wny I think multiculturism doesnt work.. classic example! something that tells you is aka"crack" dont put words into my mouth I just proved "When is rome do as romans do" statement wrong. If you dont have the brains to figure that out then its not my fault.

lol

you proved nothing wrong.......what on earth are you on about?

You know Christian and Ketchup.  I would see your arguements better if the girls were in a private school.  But go back the very first post.  This was a STATE school.  In fact, these girls probably had no other choice for schooling.  Perhaps their family was too poor to afford private schooling. 

The Hijab is a religious obligation.  Its not the same as a cross or Star of David.  They don't wear it out of identification, they were it because they are commanded to do so by Allah. 

If a muslim girl/woman is living in a free society, she should not be punished by being forced out of society because she chooses to obey her God and cover her head. 

I can see not allowing Burka in schools, if a girl must go that far, then she probably doesn't belong in a coed public school.

But, its no longer a case of "When in Rome", the US, France, England, Germany and other nations are melting pots now.  They must face the fact they have a variety of cultures and they cannot impose their values on everyone there.

I am required as a Mormon to follow a certain style of dress.  Most "school girl" uniforms would be unsuitable to my daughters.  I see no reason these girls could not have their Hijabs during school.  Instead of it being a disruption, it would be an opportunity for the Non muslim children to learn a little tolerance.  Something our children deeply need.

But, its no longer a case of "When in Rome", the US, France, England, Germany and other nations are melting pots now.  They must face the fact they have a variety of cultures and they cannot impose their values on everyone there.

So, why should we change our education system to fit in with immigrants?  This is what baffles me... we have bimbled on for decades then all iof a sudden this religion of peace says "if you dont do what we say we will kick off"

It is disgusting that guests that come into our country fight against out ideals... why come here if you don't like it, or are you just here to invade?

I hope the new ID cards work so we can remove those that shouldnt be here...

Ketchup,

As for the US, we are a country of immigrants.  My own great Grandmother traveled her with $32 in her pocket and her steamer trunk.  She spoke no English, and she was not a Protestant.  She was Russian Orthodox Christian. 

The US didn't change for her, but it changed because of her and the millions like her.  It changed for the better. 

You don't have to 'change' your education system.  The problem with this situation is that FRANCE changed the situation on the poor girls.  They were one day allowed to practice their faith and the next day, they came to school and were expelled for doing what they had always done. 

Its not fair to change the rules to discriminated against the immigrant minority.

But, I'm glad to see that racism and religious persecution are alive and well in England.  Perhaps they didn't learn their lesson when the Colonies told them to kiss off. 

Angela wrote: Ketchup, As for the US, we are a country of immigrants.  My own great Grandmother traveled her with $32 in her pocket and her steamer trunk.  She spoke no English, and she was not a Protestant.  She was Russian Orthodox Christian.

You can't compare the the USA to the UK.. the USA was founded by immigrants who persecuted the natives.. my cottage is about as old as the american civilisation..

The US didn't change for her, but it changed because of her and the millions like her.  It changed for the better.

It changed because you drove out all of the natives to create a perfect utopia.... the american dream..

You don't have to 'change' your education system.  The problem with this situation is that FRANCE changed the situation on the poor girls.  They were one day allowed to practice their faith and the next day, they came to school and were expelled for doing what they had always done.  Its not fair to change the rules to discriminated against the immigrant minority.

All they had to do is comply, rules change all of the time.  I actually agree with France on this one.  A uniform is a uniform, the fact that it was given a blind eye initially is just unfortunate.

[/quote]But, I'm glad to see that racism and religious persecution are alive and well in England.  Perhaps they didn't learn their lesson when the Colonies told them to kiss off.  [/QUOTE]

It isn't... its those that cry wolf that say it is... its easy to play the martyr, tolerance is the word you are looking for.

Angela wrote: You know Christian and Ketchup.  I would see your arguements better if the girls were in a private school.  But go back the very first post.  This was a STATE school.  In fact, these girls probably had no other choice for schooling.  Perhaps their family was too poor to afford private schooling.  The Hijab is a religious obligation.  Its not the same as a cross or Star of David.  They don't wear it out of identification, they were it because they are commanded to do so by Allah.  If a muslim girl/woman is living in a free society, she should not be punished by being forced out of society because she chooses to obey her God and cover her head.  I can see not allowing Burka in schools, if a girl must go that far, then she probably doesn't belong in a coed public school. But, its no longer a case of "When in Rome", the US, France, England, Germany and other nations are melting pots now.  They must face the fact they have a variety of cultures and they cannot impose their values on everyone there. I am required as a Mormon to follow a certain style of dress.  Most "school girl" uniforms would be unsuitable to my daughters.  I see no reason these girls could not have their Hijabs during school.  Instead of it being a disruption, it would be an opportunity for the Non muslim children to learn a little tolerance.  Something our children deeply need.

look if the french schooling system is good enough for her for whatever reason then she should seek her education elsewhere.......(there will be muslim schools in france,she wasnt forced into going to this particular school)

just like all schools in the uk.....schools have a dress code,and i dont care "that she is obligated to wear it because of her religion"

it isnt a muslim school....she should abide by the rules.......what next ?will bacon be taken of the medu because she dosnt want to smell it? no pork chops at dinner time?

she may be the nicest girl in the world,however she has no right to impose her will on the french.

Ketchup wrote:

my cottage is about as old as the american civilisation..

Ketchup, for some weird reason I found this amusing.  :--)

Colin wrote: Ketchup wrote: my cottage is about as old as the american civilisation.. Ketchup, for some weird reason I found this amusing.  :--)

And for some weird reason, I find myself laughing to this