The Miracle of Adam and Jesus
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Islam for non-Muslims
Forum Description: Non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam, discussion for the purpose of learning.
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27446
Printed Date: 21 November 2024 at 10:29pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: The Miracle of Adam and Jesus
Posted By: samirfaithful
Subject: The Miracle of Adam and Jesus
Date Posted: 04 January 2014 at 7:40am
 Allah, the almighty says in the holy Qur�an: �The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.� Al-i-Imran: 3: 59 Miraculously, the name of Jesus, PBUH, is repeated in the holy Qur�an 25 times and the name of Adam, PBUH, is repeated 25 times as well. It�s worth noting here that the seventh Qur�anic verse in which the name of Jesus, PBUH, is mentioned is exactly the same verse in which the name of Adam, PBUH, is mentioned. Besides, the nineteenth verse (out of 25 verses) in which the name of Adam, PBUH, is mentioned is in chapter 19,Mariam (Mary), and the name of Jesus, PBUH, is also mentioned for the nineteenth time in the same chapter, Mary. The question that needs be answered here is whether this is a mere coincidence or a miracle? -------------------- By: Abduldaem Al-Kaheel http://www.kaheel7.com/eng - |
Replies:
Posted By: Lachi
Date Posted: 21 March 2014 at 9:53am
|
As a non-Muslim, and no disrespect intended for anyone's beliefs, but I would first wonder whether it was evidence of intentional editing.
|
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 22 March 2014 at 12:47pm
Do you have any proof of this? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Lachi wrote:Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 22 March 2014 at 1:33pm
| I find it interesting that you ask for proof of Lachi's wondering and yet ask for no proof for samirfaithful's claims of miraculous numerology. Could you tell me why? |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 23 March 2014 at 7:30pm
Um, I actually did check to see if samirfaithful's numbers lined up. Did you? All the claims made in his post are correct. You can verify it yourself. On the other hand, Lachi made a claim and I asked him for proof. I don't think that is unreasonable. Isn't it fair to ask him for proof for his claim that the numbers only line up because someone did some "intentional editing"? The burden of proof is on him, is it not? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 23 March 2014 at 7:39pm
| Actually, I didn't ask you if his numbers lined up. I asked you why you didn't question his claim that these things amounted to a miracle. The question still stands. Do you feel that these things amount to a miracle? |
Posted By: Lachi
Date Posted: 24 March 2014 at 4:11pm
|
I wasn't doubting that the names of Adam and Jesus appear in the Quran as samirfaithful says. Only that just because they appear like that it doesn't mean it is a miracle. The alternatives are coincidence (as noted by samirfaithful) or intentional editing.
Evidence for intentional editing? You'll need to look into the history of the Quran and the compilations by Ali ibn Ali Talib and Zaid ibn Thabit and others. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 24 March 2014 at 6:22pm
No, you asked me why I didn't ask for proof of samirfaithful's claims of a miracle. I responded by pointing out that I actually verified all the claims made in his post. The names of Adam and Jesus indeed appear 25 times and the 19th occurrence of each name is indeed in the 19th surah. This is all easily verifiable. Now you are asking a different question. Do I think that the alignment of Adam and Jesus' names are a miracle? In my view, this example, by itself, is not sufficient to claim as a miracle. It could just be due to coincidence. If more such examples could be found, then it would be a different story. The more examples, the less likely it is a coincidence, and hence the more likely that it is indeed miraculous. That would require more research. In Lachi's case, he simply made a statement and did not provide the evidence. I don't think I was being unreasonable to ask him for proof of "intentional editing". ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 25 March 2014 at 8:06am
| I am glad to hear that you don't buy into this whole numerology mumbo jumbo. Thanks for your clarification. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 25 March 2014 at 5:20pm
You still have not provided any proof for "intentional editing". The Compilations of Ali and Zaid? Well, what about them? Can you demonstrate that there were acts of "intentional editing" which resulted in the numerical alignment as shown in samirfaithful's post? You may be interested to read Dr. M.M. Al-Azami's book "The History of the Quranic Text: From Revelation to Compilation: A Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments", for a detailed summary of the various compilations, starting with that of Abu Bakr (ra). You should also remember that from they very beginning of Islamic history, Muslims have been memorizing the Quran. Hence, any attempt at "intentional editing" is bound to fail since the collective memory of 1400 years of Islamic history will serve as a strong deterrent. It was true at the beginning and it is true now. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 26 March 2014 at 7:27pm
I have never actually looked into it in much detail. The Quran's purpose is to be a guide. Muslims must read it and apply its teachings. That may be hard to do when you are spending your time looking for numerical codes. However, if it was shown that multiple numerical "alignments" are indeed present in the text, I think it would be prudent to take a closer look. As I said before, the more examples of numerical alignments, the less likely it is due to coincidence. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: schmikbob
Date Posted: 27 March 2014 at 6:03am
| Generally I would agree. If you could prove that some amazing numerical code was written into the Quran, that would truly be astounding. On the other hand studying the numerology inherent in any written text and pulling out the interesting and coincidental tidbits while ignoring the stuff that doesn't match your starting supposition of miraculous, seems a bit desparate and disingenuous. |