Matthew 5:9 - Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Al-Baqarah - 2:11

It is men who truly want peace who will be given paradise.  It is them we should look to in our current struggles. 

Those who call for death and destruction, that is what they will get. 

Matthew 26:52 - Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

SALAAM,

   I appreciate your post because brother and sisters easily sway their throughts to war and hatred. When Islam is the practice of peace and ALLAH is love.

Alaikoam Salam

The Best Kind of W.A.R.S.= World Arising Responsibly and Spiritually

This means that we work on ourselves ie our own personal Jihad (Jihad means struggle the first and most important level is the struggle with self to be the Best Person we can be.)

The Second portion of this Arising Responsible and Spiritual is getting excellent and positive guidance in solveing our personal challenges and the challenges with Family that give respect to all partied involved.

The Third Part is participating in positive change and the evolution of Life and Islam and accept our portion or role in this change within ourselves, others and the world.

The Fourth Part is is living an active healthy life style and staying healthy as anything less has a great impact on the environment, our spirit, our spiritual economy and our Spiritual Environments.

The Fifth Part is developing Respect for Ourselves, others and the world and nurturing a healthy quest for imformation and knowldege so we may understand and appreciate the gift of Our Lives and the Lives of Others and the Precious Gift of the Life of this World.

Inshallah we are currently involved in a Great Sorting Out of People into Groups, ie Counseling, Education, Consultation, Prayer, Living Prayer and Hajj, Pilgrimage made to all levels of Our Lives, Our Families, Communities and Nation and World and in this process we will learn what we have done wrong and what we have done right and where we go from here Inshallah.  May we all be Peaceful, Respectful and Caring in this Important Process.

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

amlhabibi2000 wrote: Alaikoam Salam The Best Kind of W.A.R.S.= World Arising Responsibly and Spiritually This means that we work on ourselves ie our own personal Jihad (Jihad means struggle the first and most important level is the struggle with self to be the Best Person we can be.) The Second portion of this Arising Responsible and Spiritual is getting excellent and positive guidance in solveing our personal challenges and the challenges with Family that give respect to all partied involved. The Third Part is participating in positive change and the evolution of Life and Islam and accept our portion or role in this change within ourselves, others and the world. The Fourth Part is is living an active healthy life style and staying healthy as anything less has a great impact on the environment, our spirit, our spiritual economy and our Spiritual Environments. The Fifth Part is developing Respect for Ourselves, others and the world and nurturing a healthy quest for imformation and knowldege so we may understand and appreciate the gift of Our Lives and the Lives of Others and the Precious Gift of the Life of this World. Inshallah we are currently involved in a Great Sorting Out of People into Groups, ie Counseling, Education, Consultation, Prayer, Living Prayer and Hajj, Pilgrimage made to all levels of Our Lives, Our Families, Communities and Nation and World and in this process we will learn what we have done wrong and what we have done right and where we go from here Inshallah.  May we all be Peaceful, Respectful and Caring in this Important Process. Salam Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

You've spoken much, but conveyed little to me. Please bear with me... Can you explain the 5 parts you outlined more concisely? You keep mentioning positive changes, but what do you exactly mean by positive changes? The world faces more serious problems than the shortage of spiritual guidance and councelling that you mention. What about poverty in developing countries? What about fighting diseases in Africa? Aren't those more serious than "getting excellent and positive guidance in solveing [sic] our personal challenges"?

Alaikoam Salam

All the parts mentioned are key in solving the issues of ending, Poverty, violence, ignorance and apathy.

In those developing Nations you have the indigenous peoples hurting, harming and killing each other as well as a number of them denying their own people safe passage and freedom of expression and the freedom to go about the daily buisness of life.

If the people can stop sabatoging their own people and be more respectful and responsible then more development will enter their countries.  They have to want positive change and work on it as a Family and respect boundaries, and open lines of communication and community dialoge to develop community infra structure that will empower their people.

Crying oh the world does not do anything for us is a falacy as Billions are poured into those countries now but the money is pilfered by the greedy.

I do agree that there is work to be done however the people themselves must and need to be part of the positive change not just wait for handouts.

There is hope and it begins with everyone!

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

Actually, I started this thread not because of you.  I started this thread because of the "Wipe Israel off the Map" forum that was posted recently. 

Truth cannot be spread with a sword.  Contentions are not always violent.  Contentions can be what we are doing.  Debating and learning. 

Jesus taught us to have compassion, to love our fellow man and to strive for a better world.  He did not teach us to kill, maim and murder in the name of God.

He didn't say we had to be poor in wealth, but he did ask us to be rich in faith.  Rather than striving for riches and ignoring the poor, we should help our fellow man.  This is the purpose of Tithing.  Or in the case of Muslims, Zakat. 

We also should not intentionally provoke another into anger.  This is counter productive and only succeeds in creating hard feelings and further conflict.  Rather, with respect, love and charity.  We can more readily make the world a little better.  It is not my words or my money that helped my husband's best friend stop smoking.  It was watching me stop smoking and turn to God that made him want to become a better person. 

I think the only time I remember Jesus getting violent was when he threw the money changers our of the Temple.  The rest of the time he spent healing and preaching.  He set the world upside down.  Conflict was only inevitable.  He had to warn them that the road was not easy, but he did not call them to arms.

Can you get off your egomaniacal horse and understand this thread IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   This thread is in response to a different topic that you have nothing to do with.  This thread is in response to those here on the site that say it is okay to kill Americans (Rami, Whisper, and others) While trying to say Islam is a religion of peace. 

Ubiety, go see a doctor, you need help.

Goodness can we not respect different people without attacking periphery things?

Angela brought up a point and then WHAM! What is this? Can people not have dialogue?  dialogue is important.. gee wiz.. I get on here and its like a personal thing. And if no one had repsonded in a way we could all just discuss the differing concepts.. It is in Intrafaith Dialogue.. not about Bush.. gee. its about our personal faith, tenets of our religion, etc..  

Its like a question from a non Moslem about the idea of peace and peacemakers and we cannot even talk about it!  I hope that people can be looked at as individuals.. We ar jsut people! We do not represent the current political flavor of our governments. I do not represent all people in the US and neither does anyone represent the country they reside in..

There  are ways to interpet things like 'sword of peace' etc. Lots of ways. I came on thinking it would be a good discussion and then its about interpreting Angela's motives.. hello.. we cannot know that.

Everyone has their angle on this board.. we all have different interests and ideas. Yes I am western  I was born and raised here. That is the life Allah gave me. I am not less valid, then anyone else here just because too many people are faulty and voted for a particular government.  It is not for us to judge each other but help each other. Leave the judgement to Allah..

I saw a good piece on Intrfaith efforts between the three faiths-Judaism, Islam and Christianity. And its about listening and learning.  Life is hard enough and we need to listen, learn and then act to make the world better. Its amazing how much about people is misinterpreted and stereotypes abound. As Moslems we don't like it when people do it to us we should avoid doing it ourselves. Even if they do it to us.. we need to be better..   

Peace

ubiety wrote: i suggest you keep out of something you don't have the knowledge to understand

lol!

amlhabibi2000 wrote: In those developing Nations you have the indigenous peoples hurting, harming and killing each other as well as a number of them denying their own people safe passage and freedom of expression and the freedom to go about the daily buisness of life.

I was talking about real literal poverty in developing countries, the kind of poverty where people starve and have barely enough food to keep themselves alive so they can feed their children. I don't think lack of "freedom of expression" is poverty. In places like Somalia, people are ready to give up all their freedoms, rights, and every other privilage for the sake of food - the most basic human need.

You have great visions, but you need to outline some concrete plans to bring about "positive change."

Bismillah,

Peace is good.  Let's start at home and on this discussion board.

Yeah, I haven't ventured to read the thread about wiping out a country.  Didn't like the title.

Assalamu A'alaykum wa Rahmatullahee wa Barakatu

Peace Angela:

There can be things that we don't like but it is good in the sight of Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, and there can be something that we like but it is not good in the sight of Allah.

Let us pretend that you walk in the street in your town and you see how a guy tries to kill an old lady. The only way for you to save the old lady is by killing this guy. What would you do?

Wars are always great trials, but sometimes they are not avoidable. If a people oppresses and terrorizes other people then it is the obligation of the Muslim to help, even if it needs force. I am talking about battles between soldier and soldier. However, if the soldier of the enemy desist fighting then he should be given peace, and after you have given someone peace you cannot kill him be he Muslim or someone from other faiths. If they resist fighting however then we fight back. We fight those enemies who resist fighting and those who fight us. Wars and battles are always ugly and they are huge struggle, but if people fight us we cannot just give them the other cheek. This would mean that we approve their tyranny, and in the end the tyrants will rule while the peacemakers live as slaves or are no more.

Prophet Muhammad, sallallahu aleihi wassallam, did not fight his whole life in physical battle. He only fought in actual battles for altogether less then 2 days. If he were a bloodthirsty tyrant then he would wage war and kill all his life. However, he became a prophet when he was 40 years old. Before, this day he had not fought any battles, except the battles against desires etc. He lived a normal life. He married a beautiful woman and had offspring. His future wife employed him and he received financial support through his wife Khadijah. Until the age of 40, there was no battle. He just lived his life following the religion of Abraham, aleihi salaam.

Was the first commandment Muhammad received to fight the non-believers? Was the first commandment to kill the idol-worshippers of Arabia? The first commandments Muhammad received told him and everyone of us to learn and to gain knowledge. Education was the first commandment. Muhammad during the Makkan Period did not wage wars against anyone be they the Quraish, the Nazarenes, the Jews or whoever. When you carefully read the Qur'anic Verses from the Makkan Period. You do not find rulings on fighting and laws. The do's and don'ts were revealed in the Madeenah Period which begins with the Hijrah (Migration from Makkah to Madeenah). The Makki chapters of the Qur'an are preparations for the laws. You find that in the Makki part of Qur'an, the topics are the hereafter, hellfire, and paradise and the tenets of faith.

Muhammad and his companions suffered greatly by the Quraish leaders. Companions were tortured, but no Muslim raised any weapon. There were companions of the prophet to fight against them but the prophet did not command to do so. When Muhammad migrated from Makkah to Madeenah he was about 50 years old. In ten years prophethood he did not fight. They settled in Madeenah. I don't know the age of Muhammad during the battle of badr. The battle of badr was the first battle. After more than 50 years of life, Muhammad fought a battle. If you think that this battle took place over years, no. It was one battle. The Muslims killed whoever resisted fighting. They were attacked by a huge army. The Muslims were about 340 in number. It is said that the number of the Muslims were the same in number as the number of soldiers who were fighting with the King Talut or Saul against the army of Goliath/Jalut when young David, aleihi salam, killed Goliath. There was not way around the battle.

Muhammad did not fight many battles. Battles are usually not more than a few hours. Muhammad altogether fought in actually physical battle for less than two days.

I will post more... 

Isra'eel wrote: Assalamu A'alaykum wa Rahmatullahee wa Barakatu Peace Angela: There can be things that we don't like but it is good in the sight of Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, and there can be something that we like but it is not good in the sight of Allah. Let us pretend that you walk in the street in your town and you see how a guy tries to kill an old lady. The only way for you to save the old lady is by killing this guy. What would you do? Wars are always great trials, but sometimes they are not avoidable. If a people oppresses and terrorizes other people then it is the obligation of the Muslim to help, even if it needs force. I am talking about battles between soldier and soldier. However, if the soldier of the enemy desist fighting then he should be given peace, and after you have given someone peace you cannot kill him be he Muslim or someone from other faiths. If they resist fighting however then we fight back. We fight those enemies who resist fighting and those who fight us. Wars and battles are always ugly and they are huge struggle, but if people fight us we cannot just give them the other cheek. This would mean that we approve their tyranny, and in the end the tyrants will rule while the peacemakers live as slaves or are no more.

I understand and respect the point of view if not the actions.  Its easy to say one is fighting tyranny and american oppression as long as one is engaging the soldiers that are there.  But, when a man and his wife ladened with bombs enter a wedding reception of fellow muslims, then it becomes less of a fight against the enemy and more murder. 

I am a supporter of bringing our troops home and ending the violence in Iraq.  I pray the Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish people can find a way to bring a just form of government to give them freedom and hope.  I pray more people open up to change through dialogue and political activism. 

If more people were like Muhammed, then less mothers would be crying over the graves of their sons.  Going to war in order to protect your home is fine, crossing the border to blow up a mosque of worshippers you don't agree with in a country that isn't yours is wrong.

Education can fight terrorism, and its starts at home and in the mosques.