Prophets - Jesus - What was the point of Jesus?

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What was the point of Jesus?

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Topic: What was the point of Jesus?

Posted By: Lachi
Subject: What was the point of Jesus?
Date Posted: 22 February 2014 at 4:45pm

Why did Allah send the Gospel of Jesus? Why not just send the Quran and have done with it? What was the point of sending Jesus and his message?

Replies:

Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 23 February 2014 at 2:32pm

Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the Children of Israel to bring them back to the straight path. He also was sent to modify some of the laws which the Jews had been given. Allah chose not to send Muhammad (peace be upon him) until about 600 years later. That was His will.

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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 23 February 2014 at 3:15pm

islamispeace wrote:

Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the Children of Israel to bring them back to the straight path. He also was sent to modify some of the laws which the Jews had been given. Allah chose not to send Muhammad (peace be upon him) until about 600 years later. That was His will.

Greetings islamispeace,

In what ways do you believe Yshwe(Jesus) was sent to guide the Jews?
What is it that He taught them? In what way was He meant to lead them?
In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?
Do you believe there were Jews that learned from Yshwe?

Shukran and salaam,
Caringheart

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

Posted By: Lachi
Date Posted: 24 February 2014 at 2:15pm

So why the sham crucifixion and the creation of the (presumably) false doctrines of Christianity?

Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 01 March 2014 at 11:49am

Lachi wrote:

So why the sham crucifixion and the creation of the (presumably) false doctrines of Christianity?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHF5evfPwmc

Here lies your answer.

Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 01 March 2014 at 12:00pm

Caringheart wrote:

islamispeace wrote:

Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to the Children of Israel to bring them back to the straight path.� He also was sent to modify some of the laws which the Jews had been given.� Allah chose not to send Muhammad (peace be upon him) until about 600 years later.� That was His will.�

Greetings islamispeace,It what ways to you believe Yshe(Jesus) was sent to guide the Jews?What is it that He taught them?� In what way was He meant to lead them?In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?Do you believe there were Jews that learned from Yshwe?Shukran and salaam,Caringheart

Hi Caringheart,

It what ways to you believe Yshe(Jesus) was sent to guide the Jews?

I HAVE NOT COME BUT TO THE LOST SHEEP OF Israel.

What is it that He taught them?

I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the prophecy.What Law the law of Moses the 10 commandments.

In what way was He meant to lead them?

3 �You shall have no other gods before[a> me.

4 �You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them

In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?

Exodus 32
The Golden Calf

Do you believe there were Jews that learned from Yshwe?
Maybe but very few and far between.

Peace to you
Ismail.

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 03 March 2014 at 7:20pm

iec786 wrote:

Hi Caringheart,

It what ways to you believe Yshe(Jesus) was sent to guide the Jews?

I HAVE NOT COME BUT TO THE LOST SHEEP OF Israel.

What is it that He taught them?

I have not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the prophecy.What Law the law of Moses the 10 commandments.

In what way was He meant to lead them?

3 �You shall have no other gods before[a> me.

4 �You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them

In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?

Exodus 32
The Golden Calf

Do you believe there were Jews that learned from Yshwe?
Maybe but very few and far between.

Peace to you
Ismail.

Greetings Ismail,

I am not sure you have answered my questions, but let's go with what you have shared.

Yshwe(Jesus) came to fulfill the prophecy. Did the Jews see this? The answer is Yes, some of them did.

By the time Yshwe came the Jews were long past worshiping idols.

Salaam,
Caringheart

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 03 March 2014 at 8:08pm

Caringheart wrote: In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?

The point you raise has puzzled me for thirty years. Judaism and Islam are almost identical. The only significant difference I can think of is that Jews drink alcohol and Muslims don't.

The claim some Muslims make that Jews worship Ezra is, of course, bogus. Certainly, no modern day Jews worship Ezra. I kind of think of Muslims as being a sect of Judaism (or, alternatively, that Jews are a sect of Islam).

Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 04 March 2014 at 3:14pm

Reepicheep wrote:

Caringheart wrote: In what way were they 'off the path' that you think Yshwe was sent to lead them back to?

The point you raise has puzzled me for thirty years. Judaism and Islam are almost identical. The only significant difference I can think of is that Jews drink alcohol and Muslims don't.

The claim some Muslims make that Jews worship Ezra is, of course, bogus. Certainly, no modern day Jews worship Ezra. I kind of think of Muslims as being a sect of Judaism (or, alternatively, that Jews are a sect of Islam).

Your knowledge about Islam is poor at best so you should probably keep your mouth shut lest you look like a fool.

The Quran states that certain Jews in the Prophet's time believed that Ezra was the son of God. It does not mean that the Quran is accusing all Jews of this.

As for your unsubstantiated claim that Islam is a sect of Judaism or vice versa, that is just more hot air. If anything, Christianity is a sect of Judaism because that is where Christianity had its origins. It started as a Jewish sect and eventually grew further apart as it adopted Pauline theology.

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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 04 March 2014 at 5:42pm

islamispeace wrote:

Greetings islamispeace,

It is hard to understand when people react with hostility.
Did you not notice that reepicheep said;
"The claim some Muslims make"
I do not take this as accusing the qur'an of anything.
and he also was equal in his statement of;
"Muslims as being a sect of Judaism (or, alternatively, that Jews are a sect of Islam)"
not treating one any differently over the other.
I agree with him, Judaism and Islam are hardly different from one another. Islam takes the people back to the first covenant, the one that was replaced by the new covenant of Yshwe, when God 'did a new thing', and disregards the new covenant of Yshwe.

asalaam,
Caringheart

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

Posted By: Lachi
Date Posted: 05 March 2014 at 2:57pm

Caringheart wrote:

Islam takes the people back to the first covenant, the one that was replaced by the new covenant of Yshwe, when God 'did a new thing', and disregards the new covenant of Yshwe.asalaam,Caringheart

This was my understanding. It prompted the OP as to what was the point of Jesus. Why was the new covenant introduced, only to be then replaced with the Quran which takes you back to the old covenant? Why the interlude, which seems to have been a failure?

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 March 2014 at 11:38pm

Lachi wrote:

Greetings Lachi,

I don't know if it is an actual question you are asking, or just a statement you are making, but my answer to this, obviously is, that the new covenant was, and is, not a failure, but is the true Word of God, and it is the Qur'an which came later which is false because it does away with the new covenant... it negates Christ.

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 06 March 2014 at 5:08am

Caringheart wrote:

Greetings Lachi,

I don't know if it is an actual question you are asking, or just a statement you are making, but my answer to this, obviously is, that the new covenant was, and is, not a failure, but is the true Word of God, and it is the Qur'an which came later which is false because it does away with the new covenant... it negates Christ.

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart

The New Covenant you are talking about is not from Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) but from the chief charlatan Paul. Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) did not come to establish a new covenant but to bring the Chidlren of Israel back to God.

There is only one covenant of God established through Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) and is continued to this day by Islam and Muslims.

If you get rid of this fantasy of the New Covenant you will see things more clearly. You have tunnel vision hence the reason you cannot see the whole picture.

Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 06 March 2014 at 5:12am

Mr Reeping the cheep

I understand what you talking about here because the Jews and Muslims practice the covenant of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam), although the covenant of the Jews are not continued. The Christians, however, practice something completely different and not from God.

Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 06 March 2014 at 7:24am

Abu Loren wrote: I understand what you talking about here because the Jews and Muslims practice the covenant of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam), although the covenant of the Jews are not continued. The Christians, however, practice something completely different and not from God.

If the Jews practice something which comes from God, then I assume it is possible for people who practice Judaism to go to heaven?

Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 07 March 2014 at 2:45am

Reepicheep wrote:

Abu Loren wrote: I understand what you talking about here because the Jews and Muslims practice the covenant of Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam), although the covenant of the Jews are not continued. The Christians, however, practice something completely different and not from God.

If the Jews practice something which comes from God, then I assume it is possible for people who practice Judaism to go to heaven?

Sahih International

And We did certainly give Moses the Torah and followed up after him with messengers. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and supported him with the Pure Spirit. But is it [not] that every time a messenger came to you, [O Children of Israel], with what your souls did not desire, you were arrogant? And a party [of messengers] you denied and another party you killed.

And they said, "Our hearts are wrapped." But, [in fact], Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so little is it that they believe.

And when there came to them a Book from Allah confirming that which was with them - although before they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieved - but [then] when there came to them that which they recognized, they disbelieved in it; so the curse of Allah will be upon the disbelievers.

2:87=89

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 March 2014 at 4:23pm

Abu Loren wrote:

There is only one covenant of God established through Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) and is continued to this day by Islam and Muslims.

If you get rid of this fantasy of the New Covenant you will see things more clearly. You have tunnel vision hence the reason you cannot see the whole picture.

Greetings Abu Loren,

I am sure that we have been over this before, but for the sake of clarity in the matter...

19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? (prophet Isaiah)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (the words of Yshwe)

Yshwe's coming fulfilled, and revealed, the earlier prophesy.
Yshwe is the 'new thing'... the new covenant that was prophesied.
Yes, Yshwe was meant to bring the children of Israel back to God through the new covenant... and He did, bring many of the children of Israel back to God. Then He appeared to Saul of Tarsus and appointed him to lead in bringing the gentiles also, to God through the covenant of Yshwe.
It is you who are choosing to reject it... rejecting Yshwe and all that He brought. Can you not see? 'shall ye not discern it'?

Salaam and blessings,
CLynn

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 08 March 2014 at 5:07am

Caringheart wrote:

Greetings Abu Loren,

Yshwe's coming fulfilled, and revealed, the earlier prophesy.
Yshwe is the 'new thing'... the new covenant that was prophesied.
Yes, Yshwe was meant to bring the children of Israel back to God through the new covenant... and He did, bring many of the children of Israel back to God. Then He appeared to Saul of Tarsus and appointed him to lead in bringing the gentiles also, to God through the covenant of Yshwe.
It is you who are choosing to reject it... rejecting Yshwe and all that He brought. Can you not see? 'shall ye not discern it'?

Salaam and blessings,
CLynn

That's just it. I can't see it.

There is only One Covenant of God and the Christians are not, unfortunately, in it.

Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) appearing to Paul is debateable because Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) did not die and did not ressurrect.

This is where the confusion comes in when the Christians try to reconcile this fact.

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 March 2014 at 1:53pm

Abu Loren wrote:

Jesus (Alayhi Salaam) did not die and did not ressurrect.

This is where the confusion comes in when the Christians try to reconcile this fact.

Greetings Abu Loren,

If you will, listen from the 4:26, 4:27 mark on this video. This guy says it much better than I am able.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnLxUdK9Whg - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnLxUdK9Whg

Salaam and blessings,
Caringheart

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 March 2014 at 7:54pm

for Abu Loren,

You must not be familiar with the words from Jesus
spoken even before the Romans came to take Him
breaking of bread
My body which will be given up for you
sign of the new and everlasting covenant

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

and let us not forget that Jesus foretold,
His betrayal to the Romans by one of His Disciples
His death
and His resurrection

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

asalaam,
Caringheart

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

Posted By: truthfull
Date Posted: 14 June 2014 at 10:47pm

Why did Allah sent gospel and didn't sent quran directly!

Simply because jews were waiting two person and not one according to their law

One is Massaiah "prophet "

The Jews believed that the Messiah, the prophet which Moses spoke about,

Source :

http://www.gotquestions.org/Jews-reject-Jesus.html

Remember these not islamic source,

Jews don't believe in jesus "Massaiah "

They are waiting Massaih that fulfill what they want/expect
Rather than what Allah chosen to them

Because they rebel and reject prophets over and over

Allah promised that last prophet will not be jews

Change jews nation to not understanding nation

Not understanding called to Arabs -pre islam
Because rebel/ worship other than Allah

Deuteronomy 32:21 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding

� Burden will be upon Arabs

The burden upon arabia " isaiah 21:13

� Allah will talk to people with other language
Than bible ve torah ( hebrew)

English bible is translated.

Origin of bible hebrew

1 Corinthians 14:21 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
In the Law it is written: "With other tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord."

Jesus was jews( he was called as king of jews as mark 15

So one coming after him will not be jews :

One of his properties ( he will remind you
Of jesus speech)

Notice : jesus speech not someone else

John 14:26 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

Prophet muhamad said jesus is prophet :

Also jesus said he is prophet :

Luke 13:31-35
Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE)
31�At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus. They said to him, `Go away from here. Herod wants to kill you.'

32�He said, `Go and tell that fox, "I drive bad spirits out of people and heal people. I do it today and tomorrow. On the third day I will finish what I am doing."

33�But I must go on my way today, tomorrow, and the next day. A prophet of God cannot be killed outside of Jerusalem.

34�`O Jerusalem, Jerusalem! You kill the prophets of God.

� Allah telling Abraham that language
Will change from hebrew to Arabic

Abram (hebrew) turn to Abraham (Arabic)

That mean his coming generation will be Arab
They will worship him
Will be last convenient

Genesis 17

Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7�And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8�And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Notice : everlasting possession / genesis 17 above line

Also Daniel dream mentioned them.

That mean they will lead world

coming prophet sign :

According to Daniel dream

Prophet companion /righteous
Coming will be after four kingdoms
Which are :

Bablyon - Persia - Greece - Rome

After rome righteous will come

http://im51.gulfup.com/6mre0s.png

Daniel 7:17 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth.

Daniel 7:18 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
But the holy people of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever--yes, for ever and ever.'

After Rome kingdom, Islam kingdom enter jerusalem

Rome refused to give key to other than muslim king ( Umar
Bin khattab by hand

So he traveled on donkey till he arrived
And he was humble person

Just like old testament described his entrance

Zechariah 9:9
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Coming King

9��Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt,

� Allah will make prophet descended
From abraham's son ishmael. (Arab

Genesis 17

20�And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation

�Prophet muhamad descended from ishmael
Peace be upon them

His name found in bible ve torah

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wm3sZfPwv1g

� ishmael lived in paran where well water occur
As miracle.

This water called zamzam water :

Then God opened her [Hagar's] eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt. (Genesis 21:19-22)

This water not located anywhere except
In maca saudi arabia called zamzam well

Islamic history states that the Zamzam Well was revealed to Hagar (Hājar), the second wife of Abraham[2] and mother of Ishmael.[3] By the instruction of God, Abraham left his wife and son at spot in the desert and walked away. She was desperately seeking water for her infant son, but she could not find any, as Mecca is located in a hot dry valley with few sources of water. Hagar ran seven times back and forth in the scorching heat between the two hills of Safa and Marwah, looking for water. Getting thirstier by the second, the infant Ishmael scraped the land with his feet, where suddenly water sprang out. There are other versions of the story involving God sending his angel, Gabriel (Jibra'il), who kicked the ground with his heel and the water rose.[4]

The name of the well comes from the phrase Zom� Zom�, meaning 'stop', which, according to legend, was a command repeated by Hagar during her attempt to contain the spring water.[1]

Zamzam well is cure /miracle

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5PW8zPSc-hU

Coming prophet from paran/maca/saudi arabia with
Holy book /quran

He said: "The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones, from his right hand went a fiery law for them." (Deuteronomy 33:2)

Holy place of muslim mentioned in bible
Maca by it is old name baca

Psalm 84:6 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
As they pass through the Valley of Baka, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools.

Even it was mentioned in quran by it is old name
Baca

Quran

Behold, the first Temple ever set up for mankind was indeed the one at Bakkah:�75� rich in blessing, and a [source of] guidance unto all the worlds,

Source :

http://www.alim.org/library/quran/ayah/compare/3/96/first-house-of-allah-on-earth

Other evidence :

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakkah

� it was mentioned ishmael generation
Did live next to house/alkaaba holy place /Baca

Isaiah 60:7 ►

English Standard Version
All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered to you; the rams of Nebaioth shall minister to you; they shall come up with acceptance on my altar, and I will beautify my beautiful house.

In some version it called temple/house
Which is prove it is holy place

Isaiah 60:7 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
All Kedar's flocks/ishmael will be gathered to you, the rams of Nebaioth will serve you; they will be accepted as offerings on my altar, and I will adorn my glorious temple.

Kedar are son of ishmael :

Genesis 25:13 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam,

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 16 June 2014 at 10:54am

truthfull wrote:

� Allah telling Abraham that language
Will change from hebrew to Arabic

Abram (hebrew) turn to Abraham (Arabic)

That mean his coming generation will be Arab

Greetings truthful,

What about Sarai? Her name changed to Sarah? Was Sarah an Arabic name?

And what about Jacob? His name changed to Israel?

asalaam,
Caringheart

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis

Posted By: kodoo
Date Posted: 18 August 2014 at 7:37am

Caringheart, this website and this subforum is about the Muslim views of Prophet Jesus.

It is not for your rants with Bible quotes or some "ex-muslim" videos.

Keep your posts for Interfaith subforums and not here. And there also, I don't think rants should be allowed. Because we don't accept the Bible version you have as a source.

Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 August 2014 at 5:24pm

kodoo wrote:

Caringheart, this website and this subforum is about the Muslim views of Prophet Jesus.

Greetings kodoo,

I don't see anywhere that it says that 'Prophets - Jesus' is only for the muslim view? If it was only about the muslim view,wouldn't it say Prophet Isa?
Why do you come here seeking to make trouble?

asalaam.

-------------
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis