I just glanced a few things on your questions. As a student of comparative religion (We all are), there are several things I need to point out.

One of the more prevalent themes in your questions was the idea of Allah being a moon god. To answer your question, yes that is true. However, that is untrue in Islam.

Let me pose a different answer. When people talk about Hinduism in the english language, they say God or Gods. In the same way, a Christian might say God. A muslim might say God. This is all in the english language.

Now fast forward to the Middle East. An arab might say Allah. Christian Arabs certainly use the word Allah in context of Christianity. Islam uses the word of Allah. What many defactors of Islam on the internet fail to realize is that the Allah just means god. At the same time, it does not matter what word is used to describe the god, it's the "Declaration" of the god in the Holy Book. For example, you cannot say that Allah is a moongod in context of Islam if the Qur'an clearly indicates otherwise.

Also, there was mention of Elohim in one of your questions. Elhoim in Hebrew, from what I know, has roots in the word Allah because Hebrew language and Arabic share many characteristics.

Bismillah,

Johnny, for the answer to these and all of your other questions you have yet to post, go to Ahmed Deedat's website, our dearly departed scholar of the Bible and the Qur'aan.  If you want the answers to these questions, you will find them in his copious information he has published on the subject, and it is authoritative and accurate. 

After you have completed this assignment, please return to discuss your newfound knowledge.

Bismillah,

http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/frameset.asp - http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/frameset.asp

Here you go!

Ahmed Deedat, may Allah bless him.

His works were amazing. I have read articles about his debates with Pat Robertson. Throughout the globe he managed the convert a lot of people.

Inshallah we will have more Scholars in the near future just like him.

If the original poster was sincere in his quest for knowledge he would be reading authoritative books on Islam and not posing the questions to nameless strangers on a website.

His only purpose here is to attempt to instill doubt in Muslims by asking questions that have already been answered. Quite dishonest and not worth the time required to respond.

You're very welcoming aren't you, shamil

Just because questions have been answered before, doesn't mean they cannot be answered again. Unbeknown to you the guy could be just starting out to learn about islam and you shoot him down!??

And technically aren't we all nameless strangers on a website here who have joined in some common interest ?  so what is different about this guy, John11??

Bismillah,

John, the answers to your questions, every single one of them, are authoritatively answered by Ahmed Deedat's work, and I provided the link to that.  Did you read that yet?  I haven't studied the Bible for years, and I think it's better for you to read material from someone who can quote Bible and Qur'aanic references.

If you are a good, kind, open-minded, moral Christian, John, that's a good thing.  God bless all of you!

The heart of Islam is submission to Allah, The Most High's, will.  Allah, SWT, does not and never did require  a human sacrifice in order to forgive our sins. 

The story of Abraham (Ibrahim) and his son (In Christianity it is Issac, but in Islaam, it is Ismail -- if I got those names wrong, I apologize), illustrates very clearly that human sacrifices will never be required by God, The Glorious, The Forgiving. 

You know the Christian version which is very close to the Islaamic one.  Basically God has ordered Abraham to bring his son to a place and sacrifice him to God. But an angel stops his hand in the middle of his bringing it down, and he is told to get an animal instead.

How can we not see that this clearly shows that God doesn't want or need the evil pagan ritual of human sacrifice?  God shows us through this event that he can forgive us through him.  We don't need a priest or a sheikh. 

We just go to God with sincere hearts and repentence, and only he can determine our sincerity and genuineness, and he forgives us.  And then we must go and sin no more!  How great and glorious and loving our God is!  Allah huwa habibi! God is so dear to me!

Bismillah,

Man, John, you really changed your original post! (Next time make it a second post please.)

1. I don't chide anyone, well, okay, my kids maybe.

Anyway, The Qur'aan was memorized by thousands of people.  There was a battle in which many of them were killed.  Although the Qur'aan was written down in pieces, it had not been authoritatively compiled.  Because of this threat to the people who had the Holy Qur'aan memorized, Uthmaan arranged for these people to get together and compile the written version.  Not the same thing that you said at all.

2. Translations can be wrong.  The original Arabic is correct.

3.  The Qur'aan says that they did, so I take that as my authentic historical reference.

4. This beautiful Qur'aanic story explains itself.  Have you read it?  Allah, SWT, says be and a thing just is.  Allah, SWT, illustrates his power and glory by this action.  He brought a wonderful, miraculous prophet into the world with this amazing birth.  And then he had the newborn baby speak in defense of his mother's virtue to show the people that she was  a holy servant of God, and not a ho like they were thinking.

Why would God make us with original sin?  Now, that is rhetorical, because I know the dogmatic answer to that.  I merely mention it to say that it makes no sense to me after I have studied the concept thoroughly.

Adam and Eve were born in a similar way.  But their miracle amazes us because they didn't have a physical dad or mom!  

5. Many things quoted in history have and will be proven wrong by the Holy Qur'aan.  This example is not difficult for me to accept either.  Haven't you heard that Encycolpedias are updated because they have information that didn't exist before?  That means they had misinformation before!  And that's okay, because we are all humans learning the way.

10.  Islaam and Christianity are compatible religions.  Hmmm.  Like the Jehovah's Witnesses illustrate in their book of comparative faiths, we have many things in common.  Why stress the differences in a world where peace is rare and we seek to increase our love and understanding for each other?

13. Islaam means submission to Allah, SWT.  Adam and Eve were the first Muslims!  The Qur'aan had not been revealed then, so they followed the rules God told them, silly!

16.  Obviously we doubt all such interpretations.  Aren't you trying to stir up the waters here, Johnny?

28.  You mean moral like the Crusaders?  Just like women had no rights of ownership until the 1800's, and were considered to be like cattle?  Allah, SWT, chose this method of revelation, not us.  But it's clear that Christianity had left the straight path, and Allah, SWT, corrected this with Islaam. 

And we can all learn from each other how to be better people and societies, can't we?

30. Read the Bible, the Qur'aan and Science.  Islaam embraces science and confirms it.  Days to clot???  Hmm.

39.  Our beloved prophet was a human being.  But you are connecting two things inaccurately.  The explanation of the first is that Allah, SWT, doesn't want our religion to be so defined and fixed that people have no room to move around in life.  If it's written down and clear, then you get in trouble for it.  If it's open to a wider intpretation, people have more leeway, and more freedom.  Do you want a book that tells you exactly what and when you must do everything?  Many people do, but I don't!

And I will desert you now because I noticed that you have 39 questions! Think about the answers I've given you until someone gives the answer to the rest, or I find the time.  You might get Ahmed Deedat's videos.  They are jam packed with stuff like this.

Bismillah,

SubhannaAllah, Praise God, why me?  Is it because I am online now?  I was about to leave... But Rami, Nausheen, Suleyman, Israfil, Ahmed, Fatah, Jenni, Abeer and others are so able to answer these questions, so guys, please do!  I see a couple that I can easily do.

13 absolutely not!  No, No, No and I repeat NO!

14 what does that mean???  Islam, not Shariah from my point of view which many disagree with and many share, encompasses a completely different system which has elements of capitalism, socialism, and democracy.  But I don't see that we are able to implement a government that is based on this because of all of the different religious factions within Islaam.

(I know that that is going to cause a reaction among a lot of you, but you know, it's just so hard to dance around the truth all the time.  Factions exist among us.  We can't even agree yet not to argue about a scarf and hellfire for goodness sake.)

2, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 15 I recognize as basically true and correct.

Khadija, May Allah Listen to her, was 15 years older than him.  They married, had many kids, and remained only with each other for 25 years until her death.  She was a wonderful woman, and their marriage was a great example to us all. I wish I knew more about their married life myself!

May Allah, The One, Eternal God, The Merciful and Compassionate, guide you and help you.  If you are in love with him, it would be good to know that boyfriends and girlfriends having a physical relationship before marriage in Islaam is not allowed.  Ever.  No exceptions.

Is it true that:

(1) Muhammad�s grandfather defended Mecca against the attack of Yemeni Christians led by an Ethiopian King?

The actual defense of the city was by Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala, who destroyed the Ethiopian army by sending flocks of birds who stoned them to death.

(2) Muhammad married his boss, the businesswoman widow Khadijah?

Yes. 

(3) Khadijah�s Christian relative, Bahira, assured the apprehensive Muhammad that his revelation was akin to the laws which Moses (Musa) received at Mount Sinai?

Yes, although describing him as apprehensive is incorrect.

(4) Muhammad modeled himself after Mary (Mariam) and Jesus (Isa)?

Absolutely false. Muhammad salallahu alaihi wassallam did not "model" himself on anyone but rather followed the revelations sent to him.

(5) Muhammad endured pain and suffering from seizures each time he was visited by the Angel Gabriel (Jibril) to receive divine revelation?

No. On occasion it was reported that he would start perspiring even on a cold day, but there are many instances recorded of Gabriel appearing to him under peaceful circumstances.

If you want examples, use the Hadith search engine on Islamicity's homepage.

(6) Muhammad was rejected in Mecca but was welcomed in the Jewish city of Medina?

Yes, although describing Medina as a Jewish city is inaccurate. There were both Jews and Arabs living there.

(7) Early Muslims took refuge from the Meccans in the Christian kingdom of Abyssinia (Ethiopia) before they migrated to the Jewish city of Medina?

Yes, and the Negus of Ethiopia ultimately converted to Islam. And again, there were both Jews and Arabs living in Medina. 

(8) Muhammad the trader became a preacher, warrior, and head of state?

He would more accurately be described as a military commander rather than "warrior." The other decriptions are correct.

(9) Muhammad founded not just a religious faith, but a political empire beginning with the religious city-state of Medina?

The word "empire" implies the subjugation of a periphery to a metropole, which exploits the wealth of the periphery for its benefit. Describing the state established by Muhammad salallahu alaihi wassalam as an empire is therefore incorrect, since in the Islamic state there would ideally be no exploited periphery. Some rulers did in fact treat the Khalifate as an imperial structure, but to ascribe that formation to what Muhammad salallahu alaihi wassalam founded and intended is incorrect.

(10) Most of the administrators and workers of the Islamic empire were Jews and Christians?

Now you have adopted the term "empire" into your question before you even receive an answer about the nature of the Islamic state founded by Muhammad salalhu alaihi wassalam, indicating you already have preconceived notions about the answers to the questions you pose. Nevertheless, since the Khalifate existed for 1300 years in various formations and even broke into competing structures during this time, a full record of all the administrators and workers during this period is not conceivable.

(11) The capital of Islam shifted from Medina to Damascus to Baghdad and then to Spain?

The initial shifts you mention are correct, but after that the Khalifate divided among competing factions and so there were numerous cities claiming to be the seat of the Caliph. The last generally recognized seat of the Caliphate was Istanbul.

(12) Muhammad never saw the Qur�an because the scripture was written, collected and edited well after his death?

False. The Qur'an was written, collected and edited during his lifetime. During the reign of the third Caliph Uthman a definitive version of the Qur'an was assembled.

(13) The name of Muhammad enjoys greater honor than even that of Allah?

Utter nonsense. That notion is contrary to the very essence of Islam.

(14) Islam is theocratic and is technically incompatible with democracy?

Islam is a way of life, not a political ideology. The question is in essence incorrect. A state founded upon Islamic principles could take different forms, and many thinkers such as Ziauddin Sardar have presented democratic models for Islamic governance. But the reduction of Islam to simply an ideology opposed to democracy is disingenous.

(15) Islam is seen as a corrective to the teachings of Judaism and Christianity, one rejecting the prophet Jesus and the other making him God?

Yes.

..

pauline35 wrote: Thank you to all for contributing your time and knowledge to someone whom are learning. The questions I posted earlier were from a man who founded the Academy Christian Thought in NewYork, Mr. Ron Choong. He lives there and he claims to have done some research and continues to preach about what Christian ought to know about Islam and other religions. The reason I posted his questions on this web was mainly because I wanted to learn more about the history of Islam and I was sceptical about the answer which he preached to others. I was a Catholic and when being a Catholic, I must say I am embarrassed by the way of some Christian whom uses evangelism as a strategy to push for conversion or "a reborn". I was even approached by a Christian Pastor whom told me that Islam is a devil religion. I usually apply logic to some negative or positive comments made by this Pastor. Through this evangelism, they have made me become a non-Catholic and I lost my confident in their teachings and I have no faith in Christian Doctrines. I am now a free thinker but trying to learn about other religions too. I find that Phophet Muhammed is intelligent and the most influential personality in this world. A successful leader.

Hi,

I was an ex-Catholic and I am one of the luck ones whom Allah has guided to the truth of Islam. Like you, I started my journey my asking many questions about Islam. May Almighty God guide you also to His path. ameen.

bye,

deen 

Note to Pauline35:

For what it is worth, and although my contribution was insignificant, I have deleted my above response.  The way I figure, if Mr. Choong is prepared to charge people 30 dollars per head to attend his "What Every Christian Ought to Know About Islam" Seminars, he ought to be able to do his own homework and perhaps hire a proof-reader to check his facts before he publishes.  I respect you for asking Muslims about Islam and for not relying exclusively upon non-Muslims for your information.  That said, I do hereby excuse myself from this discussion.

Best regards,

Servetus

Dear All,

This is interesting. So The Medina Jews accepted Mohammed PBUH kindly when he ran away from Mecca?

But what happened to them then? I heard that Jews were expelled from Arabia Territory then.

Fox

Servetus wrote: Note to Pauline35: For what it is worth, and although my contribution was insignificant, I have deleted my above response.  The way I figure, if Mr. Choong is prepared to charge people 30 dollars per head to attend his "What Every Christian Ought to Know About Islam" Seminars, he ought to be able to do his own homework and perhaps hire a proof-reader to check his facts before he publishes.  I respect you for asking Muslims about Islam and for not relying exclusively upon non-Muslims for your information.  That said, I do hereby excuse myself from this discussion. Best regards, Servetus

Although it is deleted I still remember one thing though. The mixing of two names, Waraqa and Bahira. Thanks for that remainder.

Freebird wrote: Although it is deleted I still remember one thing though. The mixing of two names, Waraqa and Bahira. Thanks for that remainder.

I am happy to share my bread, but not with those who in turn sell it for thirty quid per head (e.g., Mr. Choong).  At any rate, you are welcome.

Servetus 

pauline35 wrote: Thank you to all for contributing your time and knowledge to someone whom are learning. The questions I posted earlier were from a man who founded the Academy Christian Thought in NewYork, Mr. Ron Choong. He lives there and he claims to have done some research and continues to preach about what Christian ought to know about Islam and other religions.

In my experience, any book, site, or lecture that is entitled "What X should know about Y" it is always nonsense.

Is it customary, in Malaysia, to report someone who publishes with minor factual errors to the authorities?  Ouch!  That must put a damper on certain types of literature.  (By the way, Pauline35, and if it is a factor in this discussion, I am a non-Muslim as well.)

Servetus 

pauline35 wrote: hahaha...any special discount for non-muslim? I wrote to Mr. Choong, asking him to be sensitive and also, to hire a PROOF READER before he publishes anything relating to religion. Unfortunately, he is egoistic in his stand and claiming that were the factuals. Well! If he comes to Malaysia, he might be hold up by the ISA(Internal Security Act) department. This is a sensitive issue in Malaysia. Although I am not a muslim, I felt terrible over what he published because he barely got the information right about Buddhism too.

In real life the kind of person like Mr Choong have never advanced the ideology he is trying to promote. This method which is the opposite of truth can not succeed, it a mysterious kind of thing:

---------------falsehood is ever bound to vanish. (17:81) 

Maybe Mr Choong is a new bloke in the game - who is still learning to familiar himself with the twist and turn of the spiritual worlds? or maybe he chasing after fame, glory and money?

Or askest thou a fee from them so that they are plunged in debt? (52:40)

Dear Exeuprey wrote:

This is interesting. So The Medina Jews accepted Mohammed PBUH kindly when he ran away from Mecca?   But what happened to them then? I heard that Jews were expelled from Arabia Territory then.

Brother this is not true. First of all Prophet did not run from Mecca to Medina. He was granted permission to go to Medina to establish an Islamic state once his teaching had earned a signifient number of desciples. If he had to run he would have not waited for 13 years and would have done so in the initials years of his persecution. The tribes of Madina who were pagans of Arab did accepted the Prophet as their head.

The Jews of Medina neither accepted him or showed enimity with him. Therefore a treaty of co-existance was signed between Muslims and the Jews known as "MISAAQ E MADINA" or the treaty of madina.

This was also later on extended and signed by the tribes of Mecca. Just after about 2 years the Jews and the Tribes of Mecca conspired and broke the treaty by attacking the Muslim tribes. Why?? Because they could not hold on to the conversions.

It was then that the Jews were expelled from Medina and Mecca was captured without any blood shed. The incident is also refered to in Ch-9 of the Quran.

Shams Zaman 

manny40,

Islam is not a violent religion. Please learn Islam from appropriate sources. You will find many links on the home page of this web site. You may also purchase a book "Islam in focus" by Hammudah Abdalati. You will find that Islam is the religion of peace and surrender to God.

Good luck,

Peace

Dear manny Brother!

It doesn't matter that whether you are black, or wheatish or reddish or white. Islam does not differentiate between colours creed or sex. You are judged by your deeds and not by colours/caste etc.

Brother your concern is genuine but you must remember that what all you read in the newspaper or media is not the true reflection of what is happening around.

It is clear from your questions that your visual reach is only limited to one side of the story like lot of other Americans see. I don't know what are the sources of your these news clips but certainly sitting in a comfortable chair with listining to music and casually talking on the net won't enable to get the Muslim prespective on the issues.

What you need to do is to listen and then find it all yourselves what is true and what is propaganda.

Regarding the cartoon issues: The individual sensitivites and collective sensitivites of all must be respected. If we started making hue and cry on all the issues will that be appropriate???

We believe that there should be understanding among the religious groups and civilizations and all issues must be settled with dialouge.

But this doesn't mean that we be humilated collectively or be des-respected in such a way. Other issues may be of national level or a regional level and we all need not to be making it a controversy while there will be certain issues which are intolerable as a whole.

You need to engage in respectful dialouge to understand our concerns, dear Manny. Your views need to be reached to us.

Shams Zaman

Secondly if I say that �In America is the sole problem for the law and order is the Blacks� would that be a just statement?

You know that most white Americans hold the same view! Even a senator said this shortly after Katrina on Fox TV.

But I know these are baseless claims. I know that Black community in America has been subjected to a long era of persecution and suppression. It was Martin Luther who had been able to win the equal citizenship for Black community. Malcom X can also be considered such a personality who after joining the �NATION OF ISLAM� (black community of America) did finally converted to Islam.

So the same media is also depicting Muslims as part of terrorism and bloodshed without even considering the injustices done to them since last 200 years.  

Try to understand Muslims concerns and eradicate them. Live peacefully and let us live in peace.

Shams Zaman     Pakistan

[email protected]

Dear Broher!

I can see that! If that be the case why should he be spreading hate while blaming us for that.

The only way is to clear his own mispreceptions about Islam or give evidence for the reason of hate. Perhaps he is another mis-informed American on Islam who need to come out of his media jargon.

Shams Zaman

I find it interesting that no one in here really discussed these facts listed by Manny40(below).  Is anyone disputing these as facts? 

I would also like to add that the leader of Iran has stated that his goal is to destroy the nation of Israel and the Muslim world has shown no outrage over this. 

Hitler also wanted to destroy all Jews and is now probably the most hated person in the history of civilization, but the Iranian president claims to want the same thing that Hitler wanted, Jews destroyed, and the Muslim world seems ok with this. 

There are no Muslims calling for apologize from this leader advocating the murder of millions or demanding laws to bar him from making statements such as this!

• Muslims fly commercial airliners into buildings in New York City.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslim officials block the exit where school girls are trying to escape a burning building because their faces were exposed.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims cut off the heads of three teenaged girls on their way to school in Indonesia.  A Christian school.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims murder teachers trying to teach Muslim children in Iraq.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims murder over 80 tourists with car bombs outside cafes and hotels in Egypt.  No Muslim outrage.
• A Muslim attacks a missionary children's school in India.  Kills six.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims slaughter hundreds of children and teachers in Beslan, Russia.  Muslims shoot children in the back.  No Muslim outrage.
• Let's go way back.  Muslims kidnap and kill athletes at the Munich Summer Olympics.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims fire rocket-propelled grenades into schools full of children in Israel.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims murder more than 50 commuters in attacks on London subways and busses.  Over 700 are injured.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims massacre dozens of innocents at a Passover Seder.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims murder innocent vacationers in Bali.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslim newspapers publish anti-Semitic cartoons.  No Muslim outrage
• Muslims are involved, on one side or the other, in almost every one of the 125+ shooting wars around the world.  No Muslim outrage.
• Muslims beat the charred bodies of Western civilians with their shoes, then hang them from a bridge.  No Muslim outrage.
• Newspapers in Denmark and Norway publish cartoons depicting Mohammed.  Muslims are outraged.

The Muslim world is more outraged by a cartoon than one of their leaders advocating the destruction of Israel.

This I can not understand. 

I can understand your wanting to defend your faith.  But you must understand that the Western world does value FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  If you begin banning certain speech everytime someone is offended there will soon be many ideas and thoughts that can not be expressed.

We can not change our laws everytime an offended group becomes violent or threatens more violence.

Bismillah,

Yes, the brothers responded to the claims saying they are baseless and foolish.  Enough said about that.  When people come and make hate posts, they don't deserve attention, yet these patient brothers have spent their time on both of you, if you are two.

Israel should be dismantled, yes, absolutely.  They conquered Phalasteen through vicious, evil murdering of innocents and destruction of home and lands.  However, the people who want to stay under Phalasteenee rule, which would be as before it was Christian, Muslim and Jew, then they should stay.

I am more angry with Bush's foolish statement about the caricature than I am about the Iranian leader blowing smoke about Israel.  Yup, that's true.

You are crying to the wrong audience, bud.  I personally know many, many Phalasteenee people whose villages were wiped out, whose homes are being torn down right now, and who do not have safe water to drink or jobs to go to. 

I also know Daniel, which makes me personally sad for the suffering his family has had to undergo because of some evil people wanting to establish a government by stealing another country's land.  Jews, Muslims and Christians seek peace with each other.  The power hungry politicians on both sides need to go fight in a boxing ring and let the innocent people live in peace.

All evil bombers need to stop their behavior.  Innocent blood needs to be left alone and the warriors need to be brave enough to fight only each other.

liberty wrote: The Muslim world is more outraged by a cartoon than one of their leaders advocating the destruction of Israel. This I can not understand.  I can understand your wanting to defend your faith.  But you must understand that the Western world does value FREEDOM OF SPEECH.  If you begin banning certain speech everytime someone is offended there will soon be many ideas and thoughts that can not be expressed. We can not change our laws everytime an offended group becomes violent or threatens more violence.

I don't think we should change our laws at all... everytime they get thier pride hurt they play the race card.  Are the cartoons really that bad?  Some might call them funny. 

I am not a defender of GW Bush. Voted against him twice.

Can not understand why you are dragging the United States into this arguement over the cartoons.  It was a Danish newspaper that printed the cartoons.

Herjihad's comments about Israel are really quite scarry.  Is it the Middle East's future to have a constant battle over Israel and it's right to exist?

So what will you propose to the Islam countries? Any bright ideas?

I do not think it is the concern of any citizen of any Middle Eastern Muslim country what the laws in Denmark are!  They are a sovereign nation.  No one in Denmark is using violence to get Iran, Egypt, etc. to change any laws in their country.  They are abidding by the laws of Denmark.  Any Muslim that lives in Denmark can use the democratic process to enact new laws.

Do not get Pauline35's last comment.  Does not seem very mature.

I understand that the one reason that GW Bush went into Iraq was for the oil.  Not all Americans supported him in this endeavour, and I am among them.

Let's assume that Israel gives Palestine their land back and pulls back within their borders.  Will their be peace between the Jews and Arabs?

What would it take for their to be peace between Arabs and the West?

To be quite honest I am not sure what the Muslim world wants from the West.

pauline35 wrote: LIBERTY WROTE:Let's assume that Israel gives Palestine their land back and pulls back within their borders. Will their be peace between the Jews and Arabs? What would it take for their to be peace between Arabs and the West? MY ANSWER: Only fairness will resolve the peace in the Middle-East's crisis. In every part of the world, there will be no peace if there's JEWS living there. JEWS are like the scorpion that stings by its nature.

Thats racist and no different to saying there will be no peace in the western world while muslims live here.

There will be no peace if there's JEWS living there.

What is a person to do with statement?  At least we know where pauline35 stands now.

I believe I was referring to the uproar about the Danish cartoons when I asked why are you bringing the US into the discussion.

What is meant by Only fairness will resolve the peace in the Middle-East's crisis.

Ketchup, I believe it is a waste of time discussing anything with someone that believes Hitler had the right idea in getting rid of the world's Jews.

She is not interested in promoting peace nor in a peaceful solution to the difficult issues of our world.

She reminds me of KKK members of the old south in the United States who blamed all problems in the US on the blacks.

liberty wrote: Ketchup, I believe it is a waste of time discussing anything with someone that believes Hitler had the right idea in getting rid of the world's Jews. She is not interested in promoting peace nor in a peaceful solution to the difficult issues of our world. She reminds me of KKK members of the old south in the United States who blamed all problems in the US on the blacks.

I totally agree... I came here to gain a better understanding, Pauline is a playa hater... a good example of the stereotypical muslim I was trying to dismiss.. saying that, as she is promoting death and violence is she really a muslim.. it being a religion of peace...

Hate the game not the player.

pauline35 wrote: Hahahaha...you are good at creating animosity instead of discussing facts. Well! You have a bad judgement. You were hoping that I am a Muslim speaking bad about other race. Too bad, I am NOT a Muslim and for your information, I am a Catholic and a Chinese. I am promoting an awareness to the situational. Did I ever say "KILL"? Nope, so don't put words in my mouth as that justified your personality filled with vengeance against Muslims. You know the rules so don't hate the player and never put words in any player's mouth. Did your mum teach you that?

Very clever, you edited your post Edited by pauline35 on 12 February 2006 at 9:16am .. you posted that jews deserved to die etc.. but by editing your post you have now put Libertys and my post out of place.  I must quote you in future so you cant manipulate responces in future.

ak_m_f,

Two of the persons whom you quoted, Washington and Jefferson, both owned slaves.  I am assuming these quotes are accurate, but please explain your point.

I assume you are also trying to suggest something about the Jews.  Maybe as Pauline suggested earlier about getting rid of the Jews and having them hunted them down as pest to society

I can not believe I came here to understand the reaction of the Muslim world's reaction to some cartoons and what I am reading is hatred of the Jews.

Once again, Ketchup, you are wasting your time discussing anything with Pauline!

Bismillah,

Ak and Pauline, you know that these characters are the same and have been here and will be here for whatever reason or motivation they have and under whatever name they choose to use.    I agree with you ak "blah blah blah, they came to spread dissent and waste our time and effort."

But "they" "they are very likely one" are like the propagandist news on American TV -- the same thing over and over again, but here on IC we are smart as Pauline said, not susceptible to such foolishness.  WE SEE WHO YOU ARE.  YOU ARE LAUGHABLE.  Go play soccer with the neighbor kids or donate your time in the computer lab. 

Pauline, I agree with everything you said except one thing.  So why don't you do a search on Dworksky on this site to read some stuff for you to think about?  AND YOU'VE TOLD THEM A FEW TIMES THAT YOU ARE NOT MUSLIM OR ARAB, BUT "THEY" AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.

Bismillah,

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=635&KW=dworsky - http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=635& KW=dworsky

I went to Forum Search and typed in his name, and the links where he has posted came up.  Here is the main one where he introduces himself.

Ak and Pauline, you know that these characters are the same and have been here and will be here for whatever reason or motivation they have and under whatever name they choose to use.    I agree with you ak "blah blah blah, they came to spread dissent and waste our time and effort." But "they" "they are very likely one" are like the propagandist news on American TV -- the same thing over and over again, but here on IC we are smart as Pauline said, not susceptible to such foolishness.  WE SEE WHO YOU ARE.  YOU ARE LAUGHABLE.  Go play soccer with the neighbor kids or donate your time in the computer lab.

While I admire your ignorance a quick little IP check would clear up this little matter.  Mines based in the uk prolly fixed, and Libertys will be US based. 

If you class having a debate/discussion as dissent then you are clearly dillusional... if you openned your mind you would see we came here to gain understanding.. to gain understanding you need to thrash out ideas to find the middle road.  Obviously all you can see is hate which i find really really sad and very quite frankly pathetic.  There some good posters on this forum with an open mind you don't use west hate to get the point across, you would be wise to take a leaf out of thier book.

Pauline, I agree with everything you said except one thing.  So why don't you do a search on Dworksky on this site to read some stuff for you to think about?  AND YOU'VE TOLD THEM A FEW TIMES THAT YOU ARE NOT MUSLIM OR ARAB, BUT "THEY" AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.

Ketchup wrote: [quote>Ak and Pauline, you know that these characters are the same and have been here and will be here for whatever reason or motivation they have and under whatever name they choose to use.    I agree with you ak "blah blah blah, they came to spread dissent and waste our time and effort." But "they" "they are very likely one"�are like the propagandist news on American TV -- the same thing over and over again, but here on IC we are smart as Pauline said, not susceptible to such foolishness.� WE SEE WHO YOU ARE.� YOU ARE LAUGHABLE.� Go play soccer with the neighbor kids or donate your time in the computer lab.�[/quote> While I admire your ignorance a quick little IP check would clear up this little matter.� Mines based in the uk prolly fixed, and Libertys will be US based.� If you class having a debate/discussion as dissent then you are clearly dillusional... if you openned your mind you would see we came here to gain understanding.. to gain understanding you need to thrash out ideas to find the middle road.� Obviously all you can see is hate which i find really really sad and very quite frankly pathetic.� There some good posters on this forum with an open mind you don't use west hate to get the point across, you would be wise to take a leaf out of thier book. [quote>Pauline, I agree with everything you said except one thing.� So why don't you do a search on Dworksky on this site to read some stuff for you to think about?� AND YOU'VE TOLD THEM A FEW TIMES THAT YOU ARE NOT MUSLIM OR ARAB, BUT "THEY" AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION.

�

.. or you are not reading.. you certainly have a very closed mind.

Ever heard of something called a dynamic IP?  You get it with broad band.. by default there is a range of ips given with a given section. so say for example my base is 123.123.12 fixed to my pc but the range will be quite big..

lets google is so its clear for you....

http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26_gci520967,00.html - http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26 _gci520967,00.html static IP address is a number (in the form of a dotted quad) that is assigned to a computer by an Internet service provider (ISP) to be its permanent address on the Internet. Computers use IP addresses to locate and talk to each other on the Internet, much the same way people use phone numbers to locate and talk to one another on the telephone. When you want to visit whatis.com, your computer asks a domain name system (DNS) server (think telephone information operator) for the correct dotted quad number (think phone number) for whatis.com and your computer uses the answer it receives to connect to the whatis.com server. It would be simple if every computer that connects to the Internet could have its own static IP number, but when the Internet was first conceived, the architects didn't foresee the need for an unlimited number of IP addresses. Consequently, there are not enough IP numbers to go around. To get around that problem, many Internet service providers limit the number of static IP addresses they allocate, and economize on the remaining number of IP addresses they possess by temporarily assigning an IP address to a requesting Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (DHCP) computer from a pool of IP addresses. The temporary IP address is called a dynamic IP address. Requesting DHCP computers receive a dynamic IP address (think temporary phone number) for the duration of that Internet session or for some other specified amount of time. Once the user disconnects from the Internet, their dynamic IP address goes back into the IP address pool so it can be assigned to another user. Even if the user reconnects immediately, odds are they will not be assigned the same IP address from the pool. To keep our telephone telephone analogy going, using a dynamic IP address is similar to using a pay phone. Unless there is a reason to receive a call, the user does not care what number he or she is calling from.

So, by this very logic then yes it will show 7 different IP addresses, but they are wll within a set range.  If you knew anything about the internet you would already know that which you clearly don't

It should be alot easier for you now as I am temp on dial up waiting for my line to clear while swapping over from one ISP to another IPS so the chances are it will be static...

Incidently....

paranoia.

par�a�noi�a    https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dparanoia"> ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (pr-noi) n. A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason. Extreme, irrational distrust of others.

ak_m_f wrote: Ketchup wrote: Ever heard of something called a dynamic IP?  You get it with broad band.. by default there is a range of ips given with a given section. so say for example my base is 123.123.12 fixed to my pc but the range will be quite big.. lets google is so its clear for you.... http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26_gci520967,00.html - http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26 _gci520967,00.html static IP address is a number (in the form of a <A class=inline href="http://searchsmb.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid44_g ci211994,00.html" target=_blank lid="dotted quad" el="http://searchsmb.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid44_gci 211994,00.html">dotted quad</A>) that is assigned to a computer by an Internet service provider (<A class=inline href="http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0, ,sid26_gci214028,00.html" target=_blank lid="ISP">ISP</A>) to be its permanent address on the Internet. Computers use IP addresses to locate and talk to each other on the Internet, much the same way people use phone numbers to locate and talk to one another on the telephone. When you want to visit whatis.com, your computer asks a domain name system (<A class=inline href="http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,, sid7_gci213908,00.html" target=_blank lid="DNS" el="http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,si d7_gci213908,00.html">DNS</A>) server (think telephone information operator) for the correct dotted quad number (think phone number) for whatis.com and your computer uses the answer it receives to connect to the whatis.com <A class=inline href="http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,, sid7_gci212964,00.html" target=_blank lid="server" el="http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,si d7_gci212964,00.html">server</A>. It would be simple if every computer that connects to the Internet could have its own static IP number, but when the Internet was first conceived, the architects didn't foresee the need for an unlimited number of IP addresses. Consequently, there are not enough IP numbers to go around. To get around that problem, many Internet service providers limit the number of static IP addresses they allocate, and economize on the remaining number of IP addresses they possess by temporarily assigning an IP address to a requesting Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol (<A class=inline href="http://searchenterprisevoice.techtarget.com/sDefinitio n/0,,sid66_gci213894,00.html" target=_blank lid="DHCP" el="http://searchenterprisevoice.techtarget.com/sDefinition/ 0,,sid66_gci213894,00.html"> DHCP</A>) computer from a pool of IP addresses. The temporary IP address is called a dynamic IP address. Requesting DHCP computers receive a dynamic IP address (think temporary phone number) for the duration of that Internet session or for some other specified amount of time. Once the user disconnects from the Internet, their dynamic IP address goes back into the IP address pool so it can be assigned to another user. Even if the user reconnects immediately, odds are they will not be assigned the same IP address from the pool. To keep our telephone telephone analogy going, using a dynamic IP address is similar to using a pay phone. Unless there is a reason to receive a call, the user does not care what number he or she is calling from. So, by this very logic then yes it will show 7 different IP addresses, but they are wll within a set range.  If you knew anything about the internet you would already know that which you clearly don't It should be alot easier for you now as I am temp on dial up waiting for my line to clear while swapping over from one ISP to another IPS so the chances are it will be static...   Incidently.... paranoia.<!-- begin ahd4 --><!-- google_ad_region_start=def --> <TABLE><T> <T> <TR> <TD>par�a�noi�a    https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dparanoia"> <SPAN style="DISPLAY: none">(</SPAN><SPAN style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: 1px solid; FONT-SIZE: 7pt; BORDER-LEFT: 1px solid; COLOR: red; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px solid; FONT-FAMILY: verdana, sans-serif"> P </SPAN><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none">)</SPAN>  <A class=linksrc title="Click for guide to symbols." href="http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html " target=_blank onclick="ahdpop;return false;">Pronunciation Key</A>  (p[IMG]height=15 alt="" src="http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/ab reve.gif" width=7 align=bottom>r[IMG]height=22 alt="" src="http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lp rime.gif" width=3 align=bottom>[IMG]height=15 alt="" src="http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/sc hwa.gif" width=6 align=bottom>-noi[IMG]height=22 alt="" src="http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/pr ime.gif" width=4 align=bottom>[IMG]height=15 alt="" src="http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/sc hwa.gif" width=6 align=bottom>)n. A psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason. Extreme, irrational distrust of others. </TD></TR></T></T></TABLE> Obviously u didnt understood my post. Read my post again, u get ur info from copy paste, I get it from Book. If ur frnds are in 7 diff country, they u will have an IP from 7 diff country( n they make account for u). So Admin will think that they are different user, but In reality all of them will be you

Look I took it as a personal dig... I tried to explain it then realized your broken English wouldn't understand me so yes I copied and pasted... I also know computers like the back of my hanh..

I take offence as being classed as a multiple user so yes I am going to stomp my feet.

Incidently, I am quite sure your admin can spot a false IP so why undermine?  

Why do you hold everyone without the muslim faith with such distrust?  How can we be "mix" if this is the attitude we have to face?

ak_m_f,

You think I am Ketchup!  It is interesting that since I've joined this discussion board, I've been talked down to as if I am intellectually inferior, been accused of being a hater, and now my idividuality is being questioned.

I must ask that since I do not know many Muslims, are you a Muslim?  Do you represent the moderate muslim?

I would classify myself as an independent politically in the US and would like us to get out of Iraq and begin building relationships.

ak_m_f wrote: reminder to your ignorant A$s " I was born in Canada, first lang = English"

My appologies, I didn't think it looked like it...

Pauline.  You can think and believe what you like but I will make this point clear to you.

Thousands of muslims relocate to the uk every year.. bringing with them the social stigma that goes with them...  they want social acceptance as does everyone that comes to this country.  How can people like my  "ignorant self" gain any understanding if we are not allowed to ask questions?  How ever insane they sound.  What is wrong with discussion? I don't understand this. surely they can think for themselves..   If I am not allowed to live amongst muslims then why should we accept them living amongst us? 

EDIT:  AGAIN PAULINE HAS ALTERED HER PREVIOUS POST TO PUT THE NEXT ONE OUT OF CONTEXT!

ak_m_f wrote: Pauline, we may hate Ketchup, but I think that IF he really came here to learn, we should give him a chance. Who knows maybe we can change his views about muslims.

I came here to try to gain some understanding which is what I have been shouting about from the begining.

The sun maybe hot and round but how does it stay up in the air?  Get my point? 

This is one of the myths I wanted to break..

we may hate

why are we westerners hated so much.. I thought if I could understand how you all live and think then maybe we could find some middle ground.. I don't want to be a muslim but I would like to be able to get along with them.  I like asking questions.. the world may look flat but it is actually round.

ak_m_f wrote: we may hate It wasnt meant to be taken literally, whts yr age btw?

Then why write it?  "We may hate" it a pretty bold statement don't you think?

pauline35 wrote: Ak_m_k, Let's us give Ketchup some space as she looks pretty confuse about her choices of words. Note to Ketchup, you did edit too, what is so wrong with editing my own message? It's my message that I edited

Correcting my spelling mistakes is not the same as you rewriting an entire post.

Dear Ketchup!

It is indeed a provoking question "Why most Muslim hate Westerners"?I have tried to answer this in shortest possible terms in the post with regard to 911.

Maybe some of your queries find some answers.

Shams Zaman

Shams Zaman wrote: Dear Ketchup! It is indeed a provoking question "Why most Muslim hate Westerners"?I have tried to answer this in shortest possible terms in the post with regard to 911. Maybe some of your queries find some answers. Shams Zaman

Thank you for taking the time to reply. 

I did read your post and found it most harrowing.  The plight of your people and the genocide is unutterable evil.

I don't buy the idea that 9/11 was committed by the American government  having gone through the London bombings.. the shooting of Mr Menezes after the bombings shows that everyone was tense... and the country on high alert.  The only reason the London bombers were identified was because of CCTV footage.. this is something that was incredibly scarce because the American attack was done  by air.

This aside, I can understand why muslims hate western foriegn policy meeted out by our governments but it doesn't answer why westerners themselves are hated, we are not our government..  I can't speak for Americans but for the British muslims that post on this board they will know full well how much faith or lack of it we have in our government. we voted for the best of a bad job.. no one questions why few turned out for the recent elections.. there was little choice  compared with Blair dispite his flaws.  There is no way we would ever elect the Tories and the Lib Dems have yet to prove themselves.  So this is why I scratch my head in confusion... hate our policies as I'm sure we deserve it but to hate the people is a completely different matter.  I have felt the hate all over this bored, even the resident bully here openly says, with agreement from others that because I am a westerner that means I am scum... 

Not sure if you can see where I am coming from but this is how I feel.

Hey Ketchup,

The last two days I spoke with a muslim colleague and actually had a nice conversation about Muslims and the West.  She was born and raised in the middle east and now lives in the USA.  I gained more understanding about her faith and the average muslim in one hour than in all the time reading posts and being insulted on this discussion board.

I asked her the same questions you and I are asking, but received a completely different response than what we are getting here.  She actually appreciated being asked questions by a Westerner wanting to understand Muslims.

I would suggest you find a person in the UK that is interested in an open and honest dialogue that will not take every opportunity to insult the West, and you!

When I told my Muslim colleague about visiting this website and discussion board she laughed and told me that the radicals on this site would never be able to have an honest discussion because of their hatred of the West.

She repeated many times that Islam does not condone any acts of violence and these people are commiting these acts in the name of Islam are just using the name of Islam to try to gain some support and legitimacy.  However, very few Muslims think they are anything but terrorists and murderers.

Through my conversation with her and future conversations with average, not fringe radical Muslims, I will continue to have faith that Muslims will be able to live in the West peacefully.

Peace to us all!

pauline35 wrote: Mr. Liberty, wasn't it what I said to you earlier? It looks like you are the one who can't accept the answer from the post. Glad you understood it from another Muslim and not from Islam haters. Peace with you always.

Don't know how you came to your conclusion.

What he said was...

"I asked her the same questions you and I are asking, but received a completely different response than what we are getting here.  She actually appreciated being asked questions by a Westerner wanting to understand Muslims.

I would suggest you find a person in the UK that is interested in an open and honest dialogue that will not take every opportunity to insult the West, and you!"

Bismillah,

Pauline, People like Daniel put their very lives on the line to protect innocent people, Phalasteenee people.  He and his family are in my prayers because I love and admire him.

Your posts intrigue me because you have a different approach to life than me, and I enjoy reading your point of view.

ak and I were born and raised in the "West".  Ak, as long as it doesn't harm you in any way, continue your effort, and May Allah, SWT, bless you with perserverence and fortitude.