Keeping history alive: a source of rift
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Basics of Islam
Forum Description: Basics of Islam
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2990
Printed Date: 29 November 2024 at 7:23pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Keeping history alive: a source of rift
Posted By: Community
Subject: Keeping history alive: a source of rift
Date Posted: 14 November 2005 at 9:46pm
| I see people who indulge themselves in history of what might have happened during the prophet's life time and after, the history stated in the koran is not enough for them, more over these historic events that supposedly happened if we trust the sources prove a source of division and hostility. Surely any reasonable person agrees this is not what the faith of islam is about. |
Replies:
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 14 November 2005 at 10:41pm
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem Our scholars went to the effort of verifying every event in islam and checking for its authenticity, a person should stay silent if he has no knowledge of islams history and should only speak after he knows what it is he is condeming not out of some blind genralisation. Our history is not a source of devision ignorant people are a source of devision those who speak without knowledge or authority are our Ummah's downfall. Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (R.A.) relates the following narration of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam): �That time will also come upon my Ummat, when though there will be an abundance of Qurrah, there will be a shortage of Fuqaha (Jurists). There will be a scarcity of (Islamic) knowledge and an increase in evil and anarchy. Then there will also come a time upon the Ummat when people will recite the Qur'aan, but it will not go further than their throats, (into their hearts, i.e. they will not be affected by it). Then that time will also come when a Mushrik and Mu�min will debate on the Tauheed (Oneness) of Allah. The time of right Guidance was with the people who came beffore Us holding on to what they established is the truth while those who wish to throw it away are the misguided as rasull allah states at the begining of islam there will be an abudance of knowledg and the jurist will be plentiful while in our time there will be few people to teach it. "have happened during the prophet's life time and after" You are one of those who say Quran only, i dont know why i didnt recognise your arguments for what they where beffore. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 14 November 2005 at 10:57pm
|
The sunni-shia rift would not exist if there was no recorded versions of history on both sides and the only source of faith based history would be the koran. |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 14 November 2005 at 10:58pm
| The koran is called al furqaan "the critereon" or that which devides, not secondary sources like the recorded history. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 14 November 2005 at 11:02pm
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem this is not correct shia have alway existed they are not something that was revived from history books. Community i have to ask you ( i am not asking as an insult but to know) are you a muslim? ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 14 November 2005 at 11:19pm
|
You do not even recognize i came to you with the truth, that the rift is being kept alive through grabbing back in historical events, and both sides have different versions. Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (R.A.) relates the following narration of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam): �That time will also come upon my Ummat, when though there will be an abundance of Qurrah, there will be a shortage of Fuqaha (Jurists). The fuqaha have been killed and are killed once they start speaking the truth because people dislike the truth when it is against them. There will be a scarcity of (Islamic) knowledge and an increase in evil and anarchy. Then there will also come a time upon the Ummat when people will recite the Qur'aan, but it will not go further than their throats, (into their hearts, i.e. they will not be affected by it). Yes, this is a reality when you see people running to scholars to interpret it for them because they can not even understand His words anymore, the clear arabic language is not clear anymore?. Then that time will also come when a Mushrik and Mu�min will debate on the Tauheed (Oneness) of Allah. So what are these lengthy preachings about Tawheed? Innee ad'oo ilaa arrahmaana wa innanee minal muslimeen. |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 14 November 2005 at 11:39pm
|
The Koran is al furqaan "that which divides" And Muhammed salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam is called al ummiy in the koran (the word ummah means nation or community, so ummiy clearly has the link to the word ummah although they translate it as "illiterate") And the prophet is also called rahmatan li al 'alameen by Allah in the koran in english it would be a mercy to mankind. Let me explain further, 1 Koran is that which devides.(al furqaan) So judgement should be derived from it in respect of right and wrong. 2. The prophet is the one nationer (al ummiy) 3. The prophet is but sent as a mercy to mankind as is said in the koran (wa maa arsalnaaka illa rahmatan li al'alameen). How is it possible for the words of the prophet who received the koran and implemented it as no other to be a source of division? How is it possible to be right in upholding history and words of scholars when they cause division between muslimeen while the koran unites them? "and you have no affair with those who break their faith up into sects and groups" Allah says in the koran. |
Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 15 November 2005 at 4:01am
Careful Community, your slip is showing.... ------------- Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~ |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 15 November 2005 at 9:16pm
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem You do not even recognize i came
to you with the truth, that the rift is being kept alive through
grabbing back in historical events, and both sides have different
versions. This
is truth according to your understanding not absolute truth. The rift is
not being kept alive by Sunni muslims, Shia were the ones to break away
from the main body of the ummah hence the name shia and sunni. You
proposition is itself rediculous and you will find no community on
earth would disregard its history this is not realistic. The fuqaha
have been killed and are killed once they start speaking the
truth because people dislike the truth when it is against them. Everything from our past has been preserved people themself create the rifts becouse they do not behave like muslims. In reality what you are asking is to disregard the prophets sunnah and how it was practiced by his companions and taught to those who came later. Yes, this
is a reality when you see people running to scholars to interpret it
for them because they can not even understand His words anymore, the
clear arabic language is not clear anymore?. Most people do not understand becouse they dont want to know islam
on any deep level but there will always be a group who does and on the
truth until the day of judgment this allah has promised his prophet, i
can quote for you the hadith if you like. So what are these lengthy preachings about Tawheed? this is not relavent just part of the hadith. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 15 November 2005 at 9:56pm
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem 1 Koran is that which devides.(al furqaan) So judgement should be derived from it in respect of right and wrong. The quran it self says to follow the Sunnah of rasul allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) 2. The prophet is the one nationer (al ummiy) All of creation is his ummah not one nationer. 3. The prophet is but sent as a mercy to mankind as is said in the koran (wa maa arsalnaaka illa rahmatan li al'alameen). How is it possible for the
words of the prophet who received the koran and implemented it as
no other to be a source of division? His
words are not the source of devision aouthubillah, people are the source
of devision. His words are the source of guidance, you are confusing
the trouble people cause with the Sunnah of our prophet. How is it possible to be
right in upholding history and words of scholars when they cause
division between muslimeen while the koran unites them? We
are not upholding history we are upholding the Deen of Islam as
understood by the prophet the sahabah and those whom Allah has placed
knowledge with.
016.043
021.007
Allah
has blessed certain people with knowledge and others not i should not
need to explain this to a person of intalect, you should understand
that there are people who have more klnowledge than myself or your self
whom allah has guided to the truth and who have guided this Ummah also. [16:27]
Then, on the Day of Resurrection, He will disgrace them and ask, "Where
are My partners that you had set up beside Me, and had opposed Me for
their sake?" Those blessed with knowledge will say, "Today, the shame and misery have befallen the disbelievers." 027.040 Said one who had knowledge of the Book: "I will bring it to thee within the
twinkling of an eye!" Then when (Solomon) saw it placed firmly before him, he said:
"This is by the Grace of my Lord!- to test me whether I am grateful or ungrateful! and
if any is grateful, truly his gratitude is (a gain) for his own soul; but if any is
ungrateful, truly my Lord is Free of all Needs, Supreme in Honour !" The
main body of this Ummah has always been one ie Sunni as i said the Shia
split from the majority the name sunni only came about after the shia
split it was to defrentiate between the two. "and you have no affair with those who break their faith up into sects and groups" Allah says in the koran. You do not know what constitutes a sect in Islam, if we were to take this with the western meaning as you are using it, then every ethinic group constitutes a group and every nation constitues a sect and we are all doomed to hell.Sunni's are not a sect of Islam we are the main body of muslims and have always been. Do you know how many of the companions and prophets wives the shia do not accept this is a sect. Some scholars have said that if you go through there books and discard all the sahabah they say are misguided you will end up with about 14 sahabah who according to them are on the truth and not accept any of the wives of the prophet whom Allah himself calls them the mothers of the believers in the Quran. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 15 November 2005 at 10:08pm
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem from the prophets last sermon. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people. The prophet is clearly saying we are going to relate what he has said and done, it also shows his aproval by making a dua for the last of this ummah to understand his words better than the first and this will be in the time of the mahdi and Isa (hs). ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |