Islamic Caliphate Declared
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Topic: Islamic Caliphate Declared
Posted By: Reepicheep
Subject: Islamic Caliphate Declared
Date Posted: 30 June 2014 at 7:46am
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/30/isis-announces-islamic-caliphate-iraq-syria - Isis announces Islamic caliphate in area straddling Iraq and Syria ...Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, an Isis spokesman, defined the Islamic state's territory as running from northern Syria to the Iraqi province of Diyala north-east of Baghdad, a vast stretch of land straddling the border that is already largely under Isis control. He also said that with the establishment of the caliphate, the group was changing its name to the Islamic State, dropping the mention of Iraq and the Levant. "The legality of all emirates, groups, states and organisations becomes null by the expansion of the caliph's authority and the arrival of its troops to their areas," he said in an audio statement posted online, AP reported. "Listen to your caliph and obey him. Support your state, which grows every day." Adnani said the group's chief, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, is the leader of the new caliphate and called on Muslims everywhere, not just those in areas under the organisation's control, to swear loyalty to him... |
Replies:
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 30 June 2014 at 11:33am
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So my thoughts are.... Which muslims, and how many, are going to support this 'caliphate' by the group ISIS? Is ISIS good or evil to them? If these people come to power, are these going to be good people to have in power? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 30 June 2014 at 2:43pm
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Pure theater....
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 30 June 2014 at 2:53pm
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Greetings abuayisha, I'm not sure I know what you mean? Do you not think these are important things to think about? Or maybe... Do you think the answers are Obvious? Because I don't think they are. asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 30 June 2014 at 6:46pm
An interesting map has popped up on the web, outlining the parts of the world ISIS (or, more accurately, IS, since they no longer limit themselves to Iraq and Syria) has vowed to control within five years. Alas, in Europe, not only will Turkey, Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, the various Yugoslavian states, Hungary, Romania, and Austria cease to exist, Spain and Portugal will also be falling to IS. Oh, dear me. Shortly after that, the victorious IS armies will no doubt be marching through the streets of Ottawa and Washington, demanding that all smokers and females with Facebook accounts be turned over for execution. The end is near... |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 30 June 2014 at 9:58pm
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I have been thinking, and I have to ask... Do you consider these ISIS leaders and followers to be 'believers'? Are they offensive, or defensive fighters? (Did the Christians do anything in those countries to deserve the slaughter, the destruction of their churches, their communities, which they have been receiving? Did the Christians in those countries start these wars? I don't believe so.) It seems a bit of a conundrum. I have heard the actions of ISIS condemned by muslims, and yet... it would seem to me that if you condemn their actions then you must also count them as an unbeliever... and yet, all they have to do is speak the shahada to be considered a believer? and yet, another person, who would never commit such actions, would be considered an unbeliever simply because they do not speak the shahada? and if you don't condemn their actions, then that means you accept them as believers and true followers of Islam? Yshwe said you would know those that belong to the Father by their fruits... in other words by their behavior. asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 02 July 2014 at 4:09am
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A perfect world would be if the whole world on that map is turned black. The whole world ruled through the Law of Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala the Sharia. A perfect world is just a dream. However, I do not support nor condone what IS are doing because what they are doing is oppression. The Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) told all believers to fight oppression wherever they find it. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 July 2014 at 2:09pm
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Abu Loren seems to be the only muslim who has expressed his opinion on ISIS. I would like to know, what is the sunni muslim reaction to ISIS? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 July 2014 at 2:04pm
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A thought comes to mind today..... We watched Bashar al-Assad bomb the heck out of the cities of Syria, completely destroying them..... but he is powerless to do anything about ISIS ?? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Reepicheep
Date Posted: 14 July 2014 at 4:48pm
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Caringheart wrote: We watched Bashar al-Assad bomb the heck out of the cities of Syria, completely destroying them..... but he is powerless to do anything about ISIS??
For the most part, ISIS in Syria is attacking moderate Sunnis and is not attacking the Assad government. In fact, I just read one report that claimed that the parts of Syria currently under the control of ISIS were previously all under the control of moderate Sunnis and not Assad. I think Assad is content to stand by and watch as the various Sunni militias attack and kill each other. |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 16 July 2014 at 4:18pm
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I'm wondering by whose authority ISIS or anybody else can declare a caliphate. Is there anything in the Quran or Hadith that even talks about a "caliphate"?
------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: Osterpe
Date Posted: 16 July 2014 at 10:25pm
A perfect world would be a peaceful and tolerate civilization without weapons, terror and pressure, where a man and a woman would have a right to be as they will without fear of the other people�s reactions. Where the Christians, Muslims, Jews and all the other religions could live in a peace and all the people would respect each other as they are and as they want to be. How can it be so big deal if someone is believing in a different way to the higher entity than someone else do? Shouldn�t the way of believing be everybody�s own business if he/she is not harming the other people in his/her religious actions? In fact I don�t know any other so unnecessary reason for warfare, violent actions, murder or imprisonment that the difference in the way of believing in the higher entity. I mean if someone feels Islam is a right religion for him/her, then he/she has a right to be a Muslim of course. If some feels the same way about Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism he/she should have the same rights. If someone feels that he/she wants to change his/her religion and the way of believing, it should be his/her own business, not anybody else�s, so he/she should have a right to do that change. |
Abu Loren wrote:Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 August 2014 at 10:21pm
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Is there anyone that really doesn't see that these actions of ISIS are every bit as vicious as what took place in Rwanda not so long ago? Is there anyone that does not see this evil? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 08 August 2014 at 12:03pm
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So, should the West get involved in fighting ISIS (ISIL, or IS, or whatever they call themselves today)? Or should the West just let Iran take them on by itself?
I suggest the latter option is preferable. That way we could find out who are the right-thinking Muslims, Sunni or Shia. |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 08 August 2014 at 3:47pm
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Too late -- the US is already into their second wave of bombing. And of course, they will be reviled in the Muslim world for "meddling" in Muslim affairs. On the other hand, if we wait for Muslim countries to do anything about it we'll all be swearing allegiance to ISIS before long. It's a no-win situation. Why can't/don't Muslims control their own radicals? ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 08 August 2014 at 6:57pm
It happens sometimes. Such as with Mubarak and Sisi in Egypt. Or with Ataturk and his followers in Turkey. Or even arguably with Saddam in Iraq. But it doesn't seem to be possible without a dictator. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 August 2014 at 8:52pm
Gretings marcello, I can't help thinking... that is because islam requires dictatorship. asalaam, CH ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 August 2014 at 11:12pm
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Why have they gone "unchallenged" and "unopposed"? There must be some part of the muslim mind that thinks what they are doing is correct and justifiable? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 10 August 2014 at 2:32pm
Probably because Muslims consider themselves slaves (see, e.g., the writings of Abu Loren elsewhere on this forum). Slaves to Allah. Since Allah, of course, is invisible and imperceptible, Muslims need to find some living, breathing, representative of Allah on Earth to enslave themselves to. That's why we see this yearning for a Caliph (Islamic State), or 'Supreme Leader' (Iran). |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 10 August 2014 at 3:10pm
What a load of rubbish. Muslims don't need nor look for living, breathing representative of Allah on earth. From all of your posts you know absolutely nothing about Islam but you write as if you are a scholar. Why don't you shut the F up? ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 5:52am
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Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 6:19am
So prove me wrong. Provide examples in Islamic history of true "Islamic states" that were not ruled by living, breathing dictators. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 7:10am
So how is a dictatorship an Islamic thing? And how is your Western Democracy a good thing? The Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallm) said that all Muslims should obey and follow their leaders even if he was an Abyssinian slave. If you ever go to a country where the majority are Muslims then you will find that the people are very happy indeed with the status quo. All the problems are generated by foreign, particularly Western manipulation. If the Western countries minded their own f*ing business then the world would be a safer and better place to live in. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 7:58am
You have proved my point. Muslims are commanded by their "scriptures" to be satisfied as slaves. Their reward will be in the hereafter. Is it any wonder that Muslim leaders insist on indoctrinating people in such nonsense? After all, it is an excellent way to have people slavishly follow you. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 8:30am
As you've never been to an Islamic country you will never understand. People on the street are happy with their leaders and if/when they are not they will let them know by peaceful demonstrations until the military show force. Nobody slavishly follow anybody, that is just your wishful thinking. The people are much happier in these countries than any Western country as people in the West are slaves to their financial situation. An average Joe Bloggs who works a 9-5 job live on credit such as Credit Cards, Bank Loans, Store Cards, Mortgages and Loan Sharks. These people are NEVER EVER happy. So tell me who is slave? ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 8:58am
Actually, I have been to several countries that call themselves "Islamic". Every one was ruled by a dictator, who ruthlessly suppressed any dissent and indoctrinated his people in the belief that they should be happy as slaves and find their reward in paradise after death. Now you have a point--such "true believers" may well be happier than freethinking people who can't bring themselves to believe such nonsense. But in reality, the statistics show that you are wrong. Take a look at the World Happiness Report 2013, compiled under the direction of the U.N. The ten happiest countries listed are: 10. Australia (7.350) 9. Iceland (7.355) 8. Austria (7.369) 7. Finland (7.389) 6. Canada (7.477) 5. Sweden (7.480) 4. Netherlands (7.512) 3. Switzerland (7.650) 2. Norway (7.655) 1. Denmark (7.693) By curious coincidence, these countries are also among the most atheistic countries. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 9:28am
WOW brilliant. They ask one thousand people if they are happy and 501 says 'yes' in the survey. Excellent. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 12:39pm
Well, given that in most Muslim majority countries it can be a criminal offence to complain against the status quo, I'm not sure how we could even know if they are truly happy. On the other hand, when women in particular are given the opportunity to report their feelings anonymously, as for instance on this very forum (e.g. in Culture and Community), it's easy to see that something is very, very wrong. ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 1:56pm
| By the way, Abu, are you leaving us soon to offer your services to the new Caliphate? And if not, why not? |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 2:01pm
LOL THAT caliphate is not from the people. Actually, those guys give Islam a bad name. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 12 August 2014 at 1:53pm
How are you so sure? Thousands of Muslims are joining the forces of the new Caliph. Videos are showing how happy the people are under his rule. And there are verses from the Quran and support from the Hadith to justify everything he is doing. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 12 August 2014 at 4:13pm
Nobody gave them authority to do what they are doing. You will find that those people who are following them are localised people from the area and possibly disgruntled Al Qaeeda operatives. In fact Muslims are supposed to fight against fitna or oppression wherever they are. I'd be very surprised if these guys had any sort of world wide support for what they are doing. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 13 August 2014 at 8:44am
Agreed, but who ought to give authority to a caliph? You asked earlier how Western democracy is a good thing. Surely a democratic election is the only way for a leader to gain legitimacy. How else can a leader be chosen fairly, if not by a majority decision? ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 13 August 2014 at 2:39pm
The Ulema of Islam will choose the Caliph whom they think are worthy. He has to be a Sheikh who is well versed in the Qur'an and Sunnah and of course the Sharia. We can't go around all the Muslim countries and elect a Caliph as this would be impossible. I think something similar to the Roman Catholics in how they elect the Pope would be a good idea. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 August 2014 at 10:38am
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Why are people going to join ISIS? The yazidi people are evil? What, in history, have they ever done to anyone? The evil here is ISIS. Is that not readily clear to see? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 14 August 2014 at 3:23pm
It appears that you are living in some sort of dream world. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 11:45am
Yes indeed, until the Muslims sort themselves out.  ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 1:53pm
And who will choose the Ulema? Will they be Shia? Sunni? Sufi? Ahmaddiya? Who decides?
Why not? ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 2:15pm
The Shi'a have their own leader. Sufi's are Sunni's. BTW the Sunni Muslims consider the Shi'a and the Ahmaddiya's to be not Muslims. The Ulema are the scholars of Islam. You don't know know anything about Islam do you? We can't go around all the Muslim countries and elect a Caliph as this would be impossible.[/QUOTE]Why not? [/QUOTE] Well your average Muslim on the street will accept whoever is elected. No need for elections in Muslim majority countries. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 17 August 2014 at 10:49am
I know all of that, which is why I asked the question. Will only Sunnis choose the Ulema? Or Sunni plus Shia? Would you exclude westernized secular Muslims? And on whose authority would you exclude the Ahmaddiya? I have seen others on this board (or was it you?) claiming that Sufis are not "real" Muslims either. Who decides?
How do you even know for sure that it's a Muslim majority country if you don't have an election, or at least some sort of poll? I suspect a sizable number of nominal Muslims are simply too afraid to admit publicly that they don't believe. ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 18 August 2014 at 4:13am
If you can think of the Sunni's and Shi'a as Americans and Canadians (they look and sound very similar to each other but they have their own identity).
You are right for once. There are millions of so called Muslims but they do not pray, fast nor believe. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: kodoo
Date Posted: 18 August 2014 at 8:17am
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Salam. I suggest everyone read this article:
http://www.crescent-online.net/2014/07/isis-making-mockery-of-islamic-principles-and-concepts-crescent-onlinenet-4520-articles.html - ISIS making mockery of Islamic Principles and Concepts And I need to say that, Nusra, ISIS and others are the newbies of the Sufyani (hypocrite) movement. (i.e. a movement hijacking the name of religion and committing crimes, same as USA/Anti-Christ to Christianity, and Israel to Judaism). These hypocrites and their masters (Turkey, KSA, Qatar, etc.) are mentioned in hadiths by Prophet Muhammad (a.s.m). Please look up the term Sufyani in Islamic eschatology and you will see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufyani - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufyani Quoting the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.a)'s prophecy: "A man will emerge from the depths of Damascus. He will be called Sufyani. Most of those who follow him will be from the tribe of Kalb. He will kill by ripping the stomachs of women and even kill the children. A man (Mahdi) from my family will appear in the Haram, the news of his advent will reach the Sufyani and he will send to him one of his armies. He (referring to the Mahdi) will defeat them..." (Mustadrak Al-Hakim) The Sufyani will be followed, for the most part, by the tribe of Banu Kalb, and will have fought with anyone daring to oppose him. Injustice will rule the day and his disregard for life will reach the point where defenseless women will be ripped open and innocent children slain unmercifully. The tribe of Qays will rise up against him, however, they will not succeed, and he will slaughter all of them. The Sufyani's army will later go to Kufa; a city in Iraq, and from there he will launch an attack against the people of Khurasan (Iran). At the Gate of Istakhr, Shuayb bin Salih and the Hashimite, will join forces and engage the army of the Sufyani. The battle will be extremely fierce with a tremendous loss of life and the army of the Sufyani will suffer a temporary defeat. It is at this time that a yearning for the Mahdi's appearance is on the lips of everyone. Also: �It is related on the authority of �Ali (may Allah ennoble his countenance): �When you see the black flags, remain where you are and do not move your hands or your feet (It�s a common phrase meaning: �Stay put and don�t get involved in the fighting�). Thereafter there shall appear a feeble folk to whom no concern is given. Their hearts will be like fragments of iron (ruthless). They are the representatives of the State (Ashab al-Dawla). They will fulfill neither covenant nor agreement. They will invite to the truth, though they are not from its people. Their names will be agnomens [i.e., Abu So-and-so], and their ascriptions will be to regions [i.e., Masri/Egyptian, Baghdadi, etc.]. Their hair will be long like that of women. [They shall remain so] till they differ among themselves, and then Allah will bring forth the truth from whomever He wills.'� See: http://splendidpearls.org/2014/07/04/isis-and-the-end-of-times/ - http://splendidpearls.org/2014/07/04/isis-and-the-end-of-times/ Just like the Holy Prophet (s.a.a) prophecied, these cannibals are the tools of Sufyani movement. And it is also prophecied that they will be destroyed by the people of Khorasan (Iran) inshaAllah. ma salam |
Posted By: abuayisha
Date Posted: 18 August 2014 at 8:52am
| Both of these narrations are fabrications, and extremely weak at best. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 18 August 2014 at 10:32am
a question... not to any one in particular... If ISIS makes a mockery of islamic principles, then how do muslims explain all these groups that spring up under the name of islam? al-Queda Taliban Boko Haram and most recently, ISIS Does Hamas follow principles of islam? raining rockets on civilians? What about Aren't all of these promoting the same? all under the name of islam? Shukran und salaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: kodoo
Date Posted: 18 August 2014 at 12:06pm
Still playing the dumb in order to attack the religion of Islam? And wanting Muslims to be apologetics over what they are not related to? ISIS, al-Qaeda and all else are the same. They don't represent Islam. Look at Afghanistan. Look at Syria. The devillish USA support to rebels (against Russia and Syria) gave birth to these terrorist groups. Now tell me, "Christian" Clynn, do you approve of the Crusaders of old? The US invasions of today? If you don't, how do you explain them spring up in the name of Christianity? If you do, please don't talk about these things. It is hypocrite.
First of all, there is no such thing as civilian in an occupied land. They are occupiers, not civillians. Secondly, even then, you need to know that there is not more than a few non-combatant zionists killed. Whereas Zionists killed thousands of Muslim civilians. If Hamas aimed to kill zionist non-combatants, believe me, noone could stop them. Just like noone could stop them taking revenge from zionist forces. LOOK UP the CASUALTIES of BOTH SIDES. How many? And how many of them are combatants and how many are not! Then talk! You should be condemning the occupier, criminal, killer Israhell! But, I don't think you would. Because even your "peaceful" "Bible" you like to quote, supports killing of the civillians: Samuel 15:3 "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." Deuteronomy 20:16-17 "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them�the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites�as the Lord your God has commanded you." Joshua 6:21 "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." But, no! You ignore your own text! The text that orders killing men, women and children, infants and animals and plants. And you ignore that in the C.A.R., Afghanistan, and elsewhere Christians are massacring Muslims. But, you won't focus on them. Because they have the same religion with you. And the massacred ones are not zionist christians, are they? So, you don't see all this. Your text, the crimes of your fellows. But, you would rather attack Islam, the text of which forbids killing of women, children and destroying animals and plants. HYPOCRICY! So, stop attacking Islam by showing us the acts of those who do not act by and represent Islam. And stop your so-called peaceful Bible and Christianity propaganda, if you think the actions of every radical and extremist groups should be related to that religion. Because the religion you claim to subscribe to has had more loons than Muslims. 
See: http://english.bayynat.org/Editorials/Miscellaneous_violent_Islam.htm - http://english.bayynat.org/Editorials/Miscellaneous_violent_Islam.htm P.s. I am against cherry picking and highlighting certain texts. And I am against playing the dumb and acting as if every action of the so-called subscribers of a religion should be related to the religion. But, since that is what this Islamophobic "Caringheart" does, I want him/her to taste the same medicine. But, I am sure it will have no affect. I know you caringheart for a long time. You never change. I am so sorry for you. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 18 August 2014 at 12:33pm
p.s. - You are someone I know and have discussed with before? You have another new name? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 25 August 2014 at 1:33pm
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Anyone that can't see ISIS as evil... makes me wonder... How many would sit in stadiums today to watch people ripped apart and eaten by lions? How many today, are still barbarians, and evil? I can't fathom the mentality of a people who would watch people ripped apart for sport. Or people who can stand to watch bodies dragged through the streets, no matter who that body belonged to. I would expect civilized people to mob the person doing the dragging and bring him down for his uncivilized behavior. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 25 August 2014 at 1:57pm
Excellent response from brother/sister Kodoo! Jazak Allah Khair for showing the utter hypocrisy of people like "Caringheart". Just as a side note, as Muslims, we should not abuse the name "Israel". Remember that it was the name of the Prophet Jacob (peace be upon him). I know you were referring to the state of "Israel", but even so, we should refrain from abusing the name just because it is shared by an apartheid nation which is terrorizing Muslims. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 28 August 2014 at 11:50am
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Where are the tears for the Yazidi's and the Christians of mosul? Whenever I watched the destruction happening in Syria done by Bashar al Assad a year ago, I wept. When I watched what the Egyptian military did to peaceful protesters a year ago, as they overran the barricades, I wept. Are there any muslim tears for what has been, is being done, to the non-muslims in Syria and Iraq? Is there equal horror among muslims, over what was done to journalist James Foley? Why is this not a valid question to ask? If someone asks me if I weep for injustice, the answer is easily yes, no defense needed. Does it matter who it is that suffers the horror? No. Any horror that brings about death is cause for weeping. I weep when I see what happens to the people in Gaza as Israel retaliates. Do muslims weep for non-muslims, as I weep for them? As I weep for any human life that is tragically taken... for those poor Yazidi's as they were dying of thirst, and throwing their babies off of cliffs to give them an easier death? We don't even know what horrors the Mosul Christians faced because no thing was reported about their tragedy. Why is this not a valid question to want to know the answer to? I see people like TG, and other non-muslims, taking up to defend the injustices perpetuated in the West Bank against muslims. When will we see muslims taking up to defend injustices perpetuated against non-muslims? Are they cognizant of injustice to non-muslims, or do they feel that injustice to non-muslims is acceptable? Is it justified? I need to see more muslims taking up for those who are unjustly treated. I need to know that they weep for us, as I weep for them. It would go a long way towards peace building and trust. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: JD Maller
Date Posted: 30 August 2014 at 11:21pm
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I registered because I think the more Muslims who speak out against ISIS, IS, ISIL - whatever name they go by - the better. Can anyone deny that kidnapping journalists IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE? Let alone beheading them? Can anyone possibly justify that it is truly in Allah's cause to do such things? Journalists - people who want to report, photograph, provide information so that the people of the world can accurately assess and judge the events that take place all over the world. These people are simply straight-up criminals. They rob banks, kidnap people, extort people, murder innocent people, and on and on and on. These are the people who are supposedly the leaders of Islam, declaring an Islamic state? I don't think so. I think they're a bunch of backwards psychopaths who are earning sin and destruction and evil. There is a hadith which I am quite attached to, in English (I don't speak Arabic) it is translated thus: Narrated Abu Musa: A man came to the Prophet and asked, "A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah's Cause?" The Prophet said, "He who fights that Allah's Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights in Allah's Cause. (Sahih Bukhari Vol 4 Book 52 Number 65)Considering we know that Allah's Word is the truth, that it simply is superior, what I take this to mean - and this is just my personal thoughts - is that fighting in Allah's cause entails things like striving to be a good neighbor, a good example, turning away from ill speech, repelling the bad deed with what is better. I think that anti-American and anti-British sentiment amongst Muslims is misplaced and an ignorance. In the city in which I live, in America, there are many masjids. Certainly there are more churches, but there are many masjids. Muslims are out and about doing stuff, every day. There is no state-sponsored activities discouraging us from being Muslims and carrying out our business. Should it not, then, eventually become clear to the broader population that Islam is the truth and that our lifestyle is superior to that of intoxication, fornication, falsehood, usury, etc etc? I think in an environment of freedom of thought, choice, religion, etc, etc, the truth especially becomes clear against the false. This clarity is made VASTLY more stable because rather than being forced to avoid intoxication, fornication, falsehood, usury at gunpoint - meaning, not because the individuals understand why these things are bad or incorrect but simply because other humans are threatening them with violence - people will come to the truth because they thought and understood why what is wrong is wrong. Only when people choose Islam will they truly believe. ISIS will never succeed because they are simply a bunch of gun-toting criminals. I have no idea if they truly consider themselves Muslims or if they are just extremely cynical people using the name of Islam to try to grab power and obedient followers. But they will certainly fail and are certainly not going to become a state of any kind. Who would trade with them? Do they think they can build a society on looting and murder? |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 04 September 2014 at 4:20am
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I've said it before but what these animals are doing has nothing to do with Islam. They are actually worse than animals because all the animals only kill to defend themselves or for food.
They are taking the name of Islam, the only religion acceptable to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala and making it something evil. My only wish is that Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala sends a thunderbolt from the sky or a wind or send angels to destroy these enemies of humanity. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 04 September 2014 at 5:10pm
Elsewhere on this forum you have written that everything was created by your Allah. Therefore, according to you, Allah created ISIS, and Allah (who knows the consequences of everything) is responsible for all of ISIS's actions. Allah is horribly malevolent to have created ISIS. Moreover, the fact that Allah has not sent a thunderbolt, or wind, or angels to destroy them, is evidence that Allah continues to condone their actions. Moreover, don't you find it ironic that the most likely destroyers of ISIS are Christian-majority nations? |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 06 September 2014 at 4:17am
It is true that everything you see and do not see is created by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala however ISIS was not created by Him as He does not create organisations that oppress innocent people. How do I know this? Well He tells us in the Qur'an that a true Muslim who fears Him MUST fight oppression wherever there is oppression. Then the true believers are tested to the core. Like I mentioned ALL true believers are ordered to stand up to tyranny and oppression so it may be that the believers are being tested and we have ALL failed in our duties. The reason He doesn't destroy them is because they will ALL be judged on the Day of Resurrection. It was a rhetorical question on my part. As I've stated on the 'Moon' thread He is not malevolent. At the present moment in time it does look like only the Christian coalition of countries could stop ISIS. One reason that the Muslims do not get involved is because the Prophet (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) told us that ALL Muslims are brothers and the Muslims will NEVER get involved because even though they are the oppressors we cannot kill them in case they are believers in Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. It would be a great sin if a believer kills another believer, but having said that if they are the oppressor then a Muslim has the right to take up arms. The thing is no Muslim is willing to take that chance. So you could say that a Muslim will NEVER fight another 'Muslim'. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 September 2014 at 9:25am
Greetings Abu Loren, How convenient... or rather, I should say inconvenient... how very convenient... for the devil Intelligent muslims must think of the irrationality of the kind of thinking and teaching that you shared. How can an oppressor be one who belongs to the Creator? It is interesting, I was going to ask, what about when the oppression is being done to non-muslims. (this genocide, this ethnic cleansing, this is allowable?) It is allowable for muslims to oppress non-muslims? (according to allah) How can muslims not be called to stand up against oppressors whoever they may be and whoever they are oppressing? especially when they are being barbaric and cruel, shedding innocent blood everywhere they go... (where is common sense and common goodness) How can good ever be served under these type of guidelines? How is not all oppression wrong? (do you know good and loving neighbors that are not muslim? should they be allowed to be killed?) Wouldn't a loving Creator be against any and all oppression against any and all of His creation? It is incumbent upon us as individuals that, if we are to serve the Creator, we know how to discern evil from good, and fight for the good ... and being called muslim does not always equate to good... just as being Christian or Jew does not always equate to evil. What about these people whose hearts belong to the Creator? It is ok if they are killed? The devil has the muslims under his grip... to serve his evil purposes. asalaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 06 September 2014 at 1:22pm
The thing is even if Muslims find other so called Muslims committing atrocities against humanity they will NOT do anything. The reason being that a Muslim is not supposed to kill another human being who prays, fasts and believes in Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. BUT all believing Muslims are told to fight oppression wherever they find it and to fight tyrants who oppress the people. So it's like a catch 20 situation. However my personal opinion is that if the oppressors are causing corruption in the land then ALL Muslims have the obligation to take up arms against the oppressor even if they are calling themselves Muslims. The minute they take up arms against innocent people then they've stopped becoming brothers. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 07 September 2014 at 5:08pm
You have contradicted yourself. Everything is created by Allah. But ISIS was not created by Allah?? How is that possible?
Are you saying the Muslims are cowards? Or that Muslims think it's possible that ISIS is on the right track? |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 08 September 2014 at 7:27am
You will say that as you have no knowledge of things. Everthing you see and don't see are created by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala but not organisations like ISIS, The Democratic party, the Republicans, HAMAS etc
No Muslims are not cowards. Let's just say that they are petrified of killing another Muslim even though we are ALLOWED to seek retribution in Islam, it's called QISAS in Arabic. For example, an eye for an eye, an ear for an ear. Basically what this means is that if a Muslim commits murder without right by killing another Muslim then the family of the victim has the right to seek retribution (like for like). Like I said earlier, ALL Muslims are told by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala to fight oppression and tyranny wherever they find it, and in my eyes ISIS and such like are oppressors and tyrants as they kill innocent Muslims and non Muslims. BUT and it is a big BUT ... Muslims will not do this as they think of the Hadith where the Prophet says that killing a Muslim without right is a great sin. But what they fail to see is that ALL Muslims have the right to kill these Muslims of they are causing corruption and tyranny. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 08 September 2014 at 1:18pm
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I can't help wondering how many muslims secretly support what ISIS is doing... as long as they can 'keep their own hands clean' of the bloodshed. I ask those muslims, are these really the kinds of leaders they want to be living under? Brutal, barbaric, killers, that subject their evil even upon children... exposing children to scenes which will damage their souls forever. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 12 September 2014 at 4:53pm
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If democracy is considered 'not a good thing', then someone must tell me; under what other government can anyone find a better life, and why have so many left their countires to go and live in a democratic society? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 13 September 2014 at 2:59pm
Excellent point. Even where people can't "vote" they vote with their feet. How many Muslims have moved to Western democratic countries? How many Westerners have moved to the Middle East? Democracy is incompatible with Islam; Muslims consider themselves slaves. Since Allah is invisible, Muslims are often satisfied enslaving themselves to someone who can convince them that he is Allah's representative here on Earth. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 13 September 2014 at 3:42pm
Hi marcello, Therein, is what I see as the problem.... In order for them to move forward... for their societies, and their societal structures, to move forward... they would have to renounce islam... and that is the stumbling block.... they have been enslaved to a detrimental ideology.... lovely people, most of them, but deadly ideology... one that does not allow them to grow, or to even think for themselves, so that they are at the mercy of whoever they allow to do their thinking for them.... or whoever manages to grab the power to dictate. unless islam can somehow be interpreted to allow for a democratic society, which best benefits all, in equality and opportunity. ....... ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 15 September 2014 at 5:01am
Wise words from the in-form philosopher of our times.... ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 20 September 2014 at 11:37am
Greetings Abu Loren, You are correct. This is the catch-22, and my concern, for the muslim. How will they not serve evil? If one feels prevented by his religion from standing up against evil amongst his own. If he is prevented by his religion from calling out the evil amongst his own. Isn't this the definition of serving the evil one? serving his purposes. asalaam, Caringheart ...meanwhile they let let the west do their dirty work and yet continue to preach hatred against them.... Isn't this the definition of serving the evil one? serving his purposes. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 22 September 2014 at 1:09pm
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The forces of evil are gathering themselves together... the storm clouds forming over the horizon. People that are attracted to beheading must be evil. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 22 September 2014 at 4:10pm
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�To most of the world success is never bad. I remember how, when Hitler
moved unchecked and triumphant, many honorable men sought and found
virtues in him. And Mussolini made the trains run on time, and Vichy
collaborated for the good of France, and whatever else Stalin was, he
was strong. Strength and success�they are above morality, above
criticism. It seems, then, that it is not what you do, but how you do it
and what you call it. Is there a check in men, deep in them, that stops
or punishes? There doesn�t seem to be. The only punishment is for
failure. In effect no crime is committed unless a criminal is caught.�
― John Steinbeck, The Winter of Our Discontent ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 25 September 2014 at 1:50pm
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and I'm still trying to understand why Bashar al-Assad is doing nothing to rid his country of this evil ???
------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 04 October 2014 at 3:31am
Slowly cutting peoples' heads off with a knife, filming it and uploading the videos to the internet, is not oppression, it's outrageous acts of barbarity by psychopathic, sub-human scum. I bet that whatever emotions are overwhelming murdered British aid worker Alan Henning's widow right now are not feelings of oppression... BTW. Is this going to be a Sunni caliphate or are these fun-loving murderers going to invite Shia Muslims to join the party in this earthly 'paradise?' |
Posted By: Matt Browne
Date Posted: 04 October 2014 at 3:35am
I applaud your open disagreement with IS, but my view on the best possible world is this: The whole world ruled by the spirit of the universal human rights including the support of pluralism, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom to vote, conflicts solved by diplomacy, not physical violence. ------------- A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 04 October 2014 at 10:13am
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'Can we tell the truth about this? � far from being horrified by barbarism � thousands upon thousands of Muslim men are flocking to the Islamic State�s black banner, including more Muslim Britons than volunteer for Her Majesty�s own armed forces? We are dealing with a group that believes that beheading videos will increase its appeal, primarily among young Muslim men... and they are apparently correct about this. Let that sink in for a moment. Atrocities increase their appeal.' True evil ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 04 October 2014 at 10:21am
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I, yesterday, was hearing a few stories of muslim men, who at risk of their own lives, have helped some of the Yazidi women to escape their captors. Thank God. I just pray that their intentions are truly honorable and they are truly helping these women and not just themselves selling the women as slaves. http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/10/03/352815113/isis-captives-tell-of-rapes-and-beatings-plead-for-help?sc=tw Many are praying to be bombed so that they may die a quick death rather than to continue this suffering and fear of torture in life. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 05 October 2014 at 7:31am
I've said from the beginning these animals were NOT Muslims because a true Muslim would not cause corruption on the earth. If I remember correctly the leader of the IS said that he would destroy the Ka'baa when he reaches Mecca. If that is true then he is definately NOT a Muslim because the Ka'baa is the first place of worship established on earth, forty years before the Temple in Jerusalem. I think the trouble with True Muslims is that they are unable or unwilling to speak out against so called fellow Muslims when they are clearly NOT Muslims. One must first understand what makes a True Muslim. Rest assured, these animals will NOT ever establish a Caliphate because the way they are going the Western countries will (hopefully) obliterate these animals from the face of the earth. This is only because the Muslims are unable or unwilling to do it. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 05 October 2014 at 8:03am
Thanks for the response, Abu. And I'm sorry if my tone was harsh. Disgust at this outrage to all that is decent (he was only in Syria to help Muslims), made me very angry - not a good time to make a post. You are correct; these 'people' are not Muslims, but they are calling themselves Islamic State. That alone should be enough to enrage true Muslims into denouncing them. BTW. I have some Muslim friends on Facebook who were quick - and very vocal - in their denunciation of Israel for their attacks on Gaza - and they were right to denounce the Zionist zealots. But they are strangely quiet when yet another hostage is cruelly butchered on camera by these psychopaths. If they think that it is unislamic to speak up, perhaps they need educating - not only in Islam, but also in core human values. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 05 October 2014 at 9:02am
Good points Colin, Didn't muslims around the world go ballistic when they felt that their prophet had been insulted... yet they seem strangely undisturbed about this IS the silence makes it seem implicitly that they do not condemn IS, and do not see them as abusing the name of islam. It seems that 'muslims' can get away with anything... just not non-muslims... because muslims are always right in what they do...  What better way to make people blind to true evil. I am reminded of a quote... 'the only thing needed for evil to flourish...' in this case... is for people to be blind to Truth... to not see the evil. Imagine if no one ever saw the evil in slavery in the United States... if no one ever stood up against it... imagine if no one ever saw the evil in what Hitler was doing... if no one ever stood up against it... ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 2:20am
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Absolutely. Evil will flourish whenever people turn a blind eye to it.
The only thing I can compare it to is the mentally of cults such as the Scientologists. Anyone who disagrees or questions their actions are deemed to be non-believers and anti what the cult stands for. The best way to survive in any cult situation is to mindlessly accept everything you are told. Don't question anything and all will be good with the world... Of course this is not true of all Muslims, but many seem happy to stay silent when they see on the news outrages such as cutting off an aid worker's head with a knife. The next victim they have lined up for their barbaric desert 'video special' is Muslim convert/revert, Abdul-Rahman Kassig. He too was running a charity to help alleviate the suffering of the people of Syria. How can people sit back and do nothing when evil psychopaths are denigrating their religion? Surely people from all religions know the basic difference between what is morally right and what is morally repulsive? If not, what's the point of religion? And I repeat: Many Muslims have spoken out about these outrages, but a lot have stayed silent. How many more heads of innocent civilians must lie in the sand before this silence is broken? |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 2:46pm
People, especially Muslims, seem to delight in calling other people "un-Islamic". As if there were some definitive criteria as to how to determine if someone is a "true Muslim". But as you well know (and as emphasized repeatedly in the Quran), the appellation "un-Islamic" is often used to justify murder. So, according to your definition of what constitutes a Muslim, would you consider the following to be Muslims: (a) The 86% of the Muslim population of Egypt and the 82% of Jordanian Muslims who support the death penalty for leaving Islam? (according to the 2013 Pew Research study) (b) The 76% of Palestinians who favor amputation of thieves' hands? (c) The 89% of Pakistanis who support stoning for adulterers? Personally, I don't see a big difference between the views of the above majorities and ISIS. |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 11:25pm
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"So, according to your definition of what constitutes a Muslim, would you consider the following to be Muslims:"
I don't remember ever defining exactly what a Muslim is. But it would appear that if this research is correct, the more backward (uneducated and insular) a country is, the more they favour 'Wahhabi style' Islam. |
Posted By: marcello
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 6:03am
True, you didn't. But you seemed fairly certain in your determination that the people running ISIS are not Muslims. My question is: are you equally certain that the majority of Egyptians, Jordanians, Pakistanis, etc., are also not Muslims because they support death for apostates and stoning of adulterers? |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 7:31am
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I'm fairly certain that sections of Muslims in various countries choose to follow a hard-line interpretation of the Quran. I have no way of knowing what percentage of these also believe that IS is a legitimate Muslim organization or who support the murdering of aid workers.
Perhaps you can hop over to these countries and run a poll... |